Metagame NU Workshop Feedback Thread!

[HJAD]

Approved by Raseri
Thats right!! On Saturday 16th August, MegaFairyFlareon, Aladyyn, Brawlfest, senable, Expulso and I will present the first NU Workshop which will be featuring the popular play style "Stall" and "Anti-Stall" in the Pokemon Showdown Community Mentoring room

In this thread, voice your opinion on stall
Whether its good for the meta or bad for the meta, whether it takes skill or doesnt take skill and GIVE REASONs.
We are all entitled to our own opinions and this is no different.

The presentation will feature what stall tries to do, what anti-stall tries to do and example teams on how both work. This comes after several NU Room tournaments have been spammed full of stally teams and a majority of the room complaining about the boring nature of the ladder and those tournaments. Therefore I have taken it upon myself to better educate people on how stall is beaten since i get a lot of "stall is unbeatable" comments and stall players just reaping the benefits.

Overall, I believe that this will be a good learning experience for whoever would like to come and attend and possibly learn about techiniques and strategies which you might have never seen before!

If the response is good, we will think about doing more workshops in the future
We hope to see many of you there!!

Be there: ~7:15 pm GMT for an hour to 8:15 pm GMT (subject to NU room tournament finishing times) in the Community Mentoring room :]
#hype
#stall
#antistall
#pokemon
#showdown
#neverused

 

[Ares]

I think the hardest part about stall, is actually building a good stall team. You have to account for so many threats and set up sweepers that it can be difficult to find the appropriate walls. That being said I think that once you get a good team or steal one from someone it is pretty easy to play stall because you just have to switch into the appropriate wall to take the appropriate hit. Also with a variety of good hazard setters and one of the best spin blockers in Spiritomb available, team building for stall doesnt seem too hard.

I for one am interested to see the results of this workshop and hopefully will get a better insight on how to beat a well constructed stall team. Without having to use Xatu.

 

[TSM ryan]

i mean you might as well put in actual good stall players if you're having a workshop for the playstyle like QueenOfLuvdiscs and senable

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Who the heck is NotHyunation?

What time is the workshop btw?

 

[Anthiese]

My experience with NU Stall is that I have a really ahrd time getting past Magmortar / Archeops and Spikes Stacking. I would love to be a part of this workshop so i can learn some more about this meta and how to get past things i have issues with.

Who the heck is NotHyunation?

What time is the workshop btw?

NotHyunation is definitely not Hyunation who is a loser but a lovely dovely <3

Als yeah what time is the workshop?

 

[Raseri]

lets keep trolling out of this thread and leave it about questions you'd like to have answered in the workshop. Or anything you think should be discussed. I'd like for these to become a regular thing.

 

[drogulus]

Stall is interesting because it forces you to play in a different way, whether you are the one running stall or you on the other side trying to break it. I mean, I can understand how it would frustrate people and seem boring, but really there is a lot of strategy to both playing and playing against stall. You have to think several steps ahead; rather than just picking the best move to hit the incoming switch-in, you need to focus on bigger goals such as wasting Wish PP or slowly chipping away the wish-passer to prevent Spiritomb from getting full-healed. There are a lot of threats that a good stall team HAS to be able to deal with, and conversely there are a lot of stall-mons that balanced and HO teams HAVE to be able to deal with.

I think the main problem that people have against stall is that they simply don't prepare for it. Stall is just like any threat: if you can't deal with it, you are going to suffer because of it. If you aren't running a spinner/defogger, something to absorb t-spikes, or something with taunt/knock off, then breaking down the opponents walls before they whittle you away with hazards and status becomes almost impossible.

I'm definitely interested in hearing what else you guys do to beat stall.

 

[BM145]

I'm not sure how I feel about stall objectively. I know subjectively, I hate it and it's annoying. However, stall is as polarizing a playstyle as there is. People either love it or hate it, and quite frankly there isn't much middle ground in relation to it.

To answer the question, I don't think it's good or bad for the meta. It's not particularly bad because technically, it's a legitimate playstyle. On the other hand, I can't say it's particularly good because there is a level of frustration in playing - and I suppose satisfaction in winning against - a stall team. Wearing your opponent down may be beneficial to your victory, but outside of the game it creates negative opinions of the user. We wouldn't want a - using a word often seen in the chat - cancerous environment where people who play stall are immediately bashed as players and dismissed as illegitimate and lacking skill (even though we know this isn't true seeing as how our #1 player for 70% of the time is a stall player).

Whether or not stall takes skill is equally polarizing. Some may argue it takes a greater ability to predict because stall has greater consequences for misplays. Others may argue that all you have to do is switch in the correct mon to take the hit and stack hazards or create status. I personally feel like stall is harder than what people are willing to give credit for, because stall kind of requires swift action to prevent the opposing team from setting up while simultaneously being passively offensive (oxymoron or nah?).

As far as a final opinion, stall may be annoying as hell to play against (unless you run stallbreakers), but it is very much ingrained into the meta. Be thankful this isn't UU or even RU where regenerator cores are everywhere and stall runs rampant.

 

[TSM ryan]

and btw, ru did their workshop in the competitive tutoring room so they could just keep the tier room itself having regular discussion. may be worth trying to arrange that.

 

[This Is Fearsome]

I think it would be nice to have it in the NU room so that the input comes mostly from NU players & to maximise the audience
I'm chill either way though, most likely will be there

I'd like to hear how the stall team building process has been for anyone that's built stall, as I (like most NU players) haven't built a full stall team this gen.
I feel like people could benefit from hearing about what unique challenges team building stall has this gen

 

[TSM ryan]

I think it would be nice to have it in the NU room so that the input comes mostly from NU players & to maximise the audience
I'm chill either way though, most likely will be there

I'd like to hear how the stall team building process has been for anyone that's built stall, as I (like most NU players) haven't built a full stall team this gen.
I feel like people could benefit from hearing about what unique challenges team building stall has this gen

It does come from NU players? I'm sayin they don't just let everyone talk. They put on modchat in the Tutoring room and let the host and anyone else running it be promoted just for the workshop so they can be the only ones who talk. It's not just a free for all where randoms are interrupting.

 

[This Is Fearsome]

It does come from NU players? I'm sayin they don't just let everyone talk. They put on modchat in the Tutoring room and let the host and anyone else running it be promoted just for the workshop so they can be the only ones who talk. It's not just a free for all where randoms are interrupting.

In that case i'm even more chill, thanks for the clarification

 

[EonX]

and btw, ru did their workshop in the competitive tutoring room so they could just keep the tier room itself having regular discussion. may be worth trying to arrange that.

Just wanted to pop in and clarify that the RU Workshop was hosted by RU Mentors from the Smogon Mentorship Program in the Community Mentoring Room. That said, if you were wanting to arrange it elsewhere, like the Community Mentoring Room for example, you'd probably be better off talking to Redew about that one.

Tagging HJAD, august, Aladyyn, and Raseri since it seems you guys are the ones behind the planning of this so you guys are sure to see this.

 

[Redew]

Yeah, we got like 250+ users when we hosted the RU workshop. If you want to set it up to have it in the mentoring room, feel free to PM me.

 

[Raseri]

I'm not really taking charge on this (im just the guy who approved it). If HJAD would rather run it in the community mentoring room, thats cool with me. But ill make it his call

 

[Karane]

Using a stall team gets you a bad rap. Also one thing I've realized is that good stall teams have a knock off absorber e.g granbull in their team. Problem with stall can be wallbreakers, stall breakers and random setup sweepers. I think stall is healthy playstyle because diversity in playstyles is always interesting.

 

[HJAD]

Who the heck is NotHyunation?

What time is the workshop btw?

Its 15 minute after the first official nu tournament in the nu room finishes. So assuming it takes 1 hour (subject to long stally matches) the workshop begins at around 7:15 pm GMT. On Saturday as well if I didn't mention that already

 

[HJAD]

Brawlfest and senable has been added to the trio of MFF, Aladyyn and I. Brawlfest adds guile and wit to the project as well as unrivaled knowledge of the meta(hax god). Whereas senable adds intelligence to the group and is the one player that uses stall on a regular basis to great success on the NU ladder. I'm delighted to announced both players to the party and both will add a great degree of intellect to the proceedings

 

[Explorer]

So what time of day will this be? As my Saturday is pretty crowded as it is.

 

[Ares]

So what time of day will this be? As my Saturday is pretty crowded as it is.

Read two posts above you. Also HJAD you should probably edit the first post so new ppl who dont read all of the comments see the time. Maybe put it in Bold at the bottom.

 

[HJAD]

Read two posts above you. Also HJAD you should probably edit the first post so new ppl who dont read all of the comments see the time. Maybe put it in Bold at the bottom.

Way ahead of ya :)

 

[Expulso]

Brawlfest and senable has been added to the trio of MFF, Aladyyn and I. Brawlfest adds guile and wit to the project as well as unrivaled knowledge of the meta(hax god). Whereas senable adds intelligence to the group and is the one player that uses stall on a regular basis to great success on the NU ladder. I'm delighted to announced both players to the party and both will add a great degree of intellect to the proceedings

I'd like to join this, as I have plenty of experience using and playing against stall in both NU and other tiers. :)

 

[Magis4Life]

Still has always been regarded in contempt in nearly every tier by and large. It doesn't surprise me that some players regard the style as boring or even cancerous (I personally like playing against stall and some of my best games have been against stall teams. Nevertheless, battles are typically long and can sometimes be very dry). Now I am intrigued as stall has only previously been rising as a most viable playstyle. I remember earlier how some players even said that stall wasn't all too viable (though in some ways it was understandable and the tier has developed farther since alpha). Now the team building process is heavily important and arguably the most important factor in how effective stall can be in general. Compared to other tiers like ou, building a good and effective stall team in nu I feel is not as difficult. We have good roles in stall like spiritomb, the spinblocker, lickilicky, the cleric and special wall, or ferroseed, the hazard setter and primarily physical wall that effectively handles a good amount of threats like gatr. Though there is not as much variety with the pokemon that are effective on stall, the ones that are certainly do their job. There is enough there however to where there is at least a mild variety. I will be on a hiatus for a while until nu open but will try to attend the workship. How long will it be? I am certainly interested in the play style in this tier and don't personally have a problem with stall. It is a legitimate play style and something that must be prepared for. Remember that stall is really just beginning to rise and therefore some players haven't really prepared for it yet as it was certainly rare beforehand. I believe this workshop will be helpful in this regard.

 

[HJAD]

Expulso is the last part of the jigsaw to be added. He adds experience since he constantly mentors in the NU room as well as other tiers. Also, his experience in holding these events will help us greatly :)

 

[QueenOfLuvdiscs]

Since I'm pretty much known for 'introducing Stall into the tier', I can honestly say that it's not OP in the slightest as Stall can be broken down easily when making the right predictions. There as many threats to Stall in this tier like Nasty Plot Mismagius and Double Dance Rhydon. Now obviously, every team can't just bring them to counter Stall, but a good team build should carry a Stallbreaker so that they have a chance to beat Stall and if you are running Stall, make sure that you have a way to beat other Stall teams.

I do believe that people really do not like facing Stall, whether it be on the ladder or in tours, as they don't like to play the grind game with it. One of the key ways to beat Stall is to not get annoyed by all the 'stalling' that is does. As long as you can keep a level head in the battle, you're in with a much better chance of winning against it.

All in all, Stall is just like any other playstyle in the tier; it's has it's pros and its cons, which can be exploited, just like using Balanced or Hyper Offense