[NU] Stall is underrated

[Anna says hi]

Here's my first RMT, requested by 4 people from the NU chatroom. This team has achieved decent success on both NU ladders, and peaked #3 on the beta ladder when it was still young. So, without much further ado, I present the team, without any pictures at all.

Hax Mistress (Vivillon) (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Hurricane
- Bug Buzz

I usually lead with Vivillon. If I manage to set up a dance or two, I can wreak havoc. The whole point of Vivillon is to force the match to a 5v5, which is almost always in my favor. Occasionally I can KO one of their mons and sleep another, which is absolutely amazing for the rest of the team. Another thing that is great if it can happen is if I can KO all of the other team's grounded poison types, setting the stage for...




Fairy slayer Fish (Qwilfish) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Aqua Jet

Toxic Spikes are a godsend to stall teams. Being able to inflict toxic poison on every switch is amazing, and the fact that Qwilfish has Intimidate makes it even better, granting it many switch-in opportunities. It's a pity it's too slow to actually taunt anything before they set up whatever. Aqua Jet is used over Waterfall because you don't know when priority can come in handy.



>Golem (Rhydon) @ Eviolite
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 252 Atk / 12 HP / 244 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Megahorn


I have never seen Rhydon in NU outside of this team, and it's ridiculously underrated in that respect. The EVs were originally intended to avoid the OHKO from Xatu's Grass Knot, but as Xatu's usage dropped off, the unusual EVs stuck, as they maximised Rhydon's bulk in conjunction with Lickilicky's 212 HP Wishes.


TongueTied (Lickilicky) @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Careful Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Protect

This is the standard cleric set. Lickilicky is used in preference to Audino because of the larger wishes and the ability to phaze, which is especially useful against SmashPass Gorebyss. Heal Bell is used over Toxic because Toxic Spikes are auto-poisoning for me. This is a great annoyer, and can extend Rhydon's life span by a considerable amount.


SuperPumpkin (Gourgeist-Super) @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Sneak
- Protect

The final annoyer of the team, but arguably the best. This thing is a massive pain to fight without a special SE move. All the moves are self explanatory, so be aware that this thing's physical bulk is downright ridiculous. It easily falls to special hits, though, and keeping it alive is often necessary to win the game.


(tho) (Typhlosion) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Meet the wallbreaker. Yes, it may seem odd having a relatively fast wallbreaker on a stall team, but without him, Sigilyph could come in for free, set up a Calm Mind or two, and sweep effortlessly. Hidden Power Electric is used because this guy has almost no coverage whatsoever(extrasensory sucks), and being able to 2HKO Mantine on the switch is critical to prevent it from defogging away my hard-earned hazards.​

That's the team.

Strategy/Playstyle analysis
This team is simple to use. Just sleep something, set up Quiver Dance, and when Vivillon dies, go to one of the two hazard setters and set up hazards. If the opponent has a guts pokemon, I try to avoid setting up Toxic Spikes until it's within easy kill range. I may occasionally try to lure out opposing poison types by setting up Toxic Spikes, then wearing them down with repeated switches in to my hazards. Gourgeist is the go-to physical wall, but try to avoid over-relying on it, especially if the opponent has a Feraligatr. Qwilfish is for physical attackers that have SE STAB on Gourgeist. Lickilicky keeps the whole team healthy(except Vivillon, who is most likely fainted by that point). Sigilyph is easily dealt with by Typhlosion. As this is a stall team, wearing down the opposing team with switches in to hazards is the preferred method of dealing damage. Please also note that this team works amazingly fast for a stall team, 30 turn wins aren't uncommon.


Threatlist

As uncommon as it is, Sub+Will-o-Wisp Pyroar shuts down my entire team if I don't have at least one layer of Toxic Spikes up before it comes in.

Swords Dance Feraligatr is difficult to deal with. I have to predict whether it's running Return or Ice Punch.(Almost all sets should run Ice Punch, BTW). Gourgeist can't wall it if it's taken any prior damage, and the common Lum Berry will absorb my attempts to burn it. If it has Ice Punch, as expected, then Qwilfish gets a switch-in to it, but can't do anything in return. If it has Return, it can't 6HKO Gourgeist with any unboosted move.


Substitute+Shell Smash+Baton Pass Gorebyss is annoying. Lickilicky can't break its subs with Dragon Tail, even when it's at -1. So something will get a free +4. And something's going to get destroyed when something gets a free +4. Unless Vivillon has her sash intact.


Importable

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Hax Mistress (Vivillon) (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Hurricane
- Bug Buzz

TongueTied (Lickilicky) @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Careful Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Protect

Fairy slayer Fish (Qwilfish) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Aqua Jet

>Golem (Rhydon) @ Eviolite
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 252 Atk / 12 HP / 244 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Megahorn

(tho) (Typhlosion) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Electric]

SuperPumpkin (Gourgeist-Super) @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Sneak
- Protect

 

[weird mon]

Nice team for stall

 

[Cherub Agent]

K so this team is pretty much a semistall team, which works of course, but with Typhlosion and Vivillon you have less answers to threatening offensive Pokemon. I'd aim to help fix this while still providing you with a win condition, as well as a few set optimizations.

First, to help with your SubPyroar weakness, run Rock Blast on Rhyperior over Stone Edge, and I'd also look into using Roar over Megahorn. Pyroar will probably burn you, but you have Heal Bell support. Rock Blast will also help you considerably against other lethal offensive threats such as Vivillon. Roar can help you out against Gorebyss if you're feeling gutsy, and if Gorebyss want to set up it would probably do so against Rhydon. Roar also helps you considerably to spread more hazard damage and prevent general setup.

I think that you'll find Seed Bomb more useful on Gourgeist than Shadow Sneak, as it deals twice the damage, and really, Shadow Sneak without investment doesn't hit very hard at all. Also means that you have another defense against Gorebyss, and other powerful Rain sweepers like Seismitoad. Feraligatr also gets hard countered as well, and it's a move to strike Sandslash attempting to Rapid Spin

Consider Body Slam over Dragon Tail on Lickilicky? It hits twice as hard, and makes it much more difficult for Pokemon to set up Substitutes on you. The paralysis factor can be welcome against fast and frail Pokemon, but if you'd rather they be poisoned by Toxic Spikes Return could be looked into for an even stronger hit. This change also lets Lickilicky counter SubWisp Pyroar, especially if its been poisoned by Toxic Spikes, simply by outlasting it with Wish and Heal Bell.

Aqua Jet on Qwilfish is in the same boat as Shadow Sneak on Gourgeist imo; change it to either Waterfall or Poison Jab for more offensive presence.

Next, I'd really look into replacing Vivillon with CroTomb (Rest, Sleep Talk, Calm Mind, Dark Pulse). This gives you not only an endgame win condition, but also a counter to Sigilyph, one of stall's biggest nightmares. It's also a very reliable Fighting-type counter due to not being weak to Knock Off, although you do also have Gourgeist and Qwilfish to fall back on. If you need it early game it's already perfectly supported by Lickilicky, where it can receive a wish by coming in kn Fighting-type attacks and being woken up from Sleep. Infiltrator also helps with Substitutes, which can be a headache for stall teams

Lastly I'd quite like to fit Cryogonal in there over Typhlosion. It gives you another answer to Sigilyph, Gorebyss, Ludicolo and Seismitoad (use Freeze Dry) but above all a Rapid Spinner, which is essential on any stall team, due to the fact that you can't prevent hazards from going up and will need to switch around a lot. Use a specially defensive spread.

I hope that my suggestions helped you, and good luck :)

 

[Anna says hi]

I appreciate your suggestions, and I'll address them one by one.
Rock Blast on Rhydon is a good idea, and I'll consider it. I'm iffy about the variable power, but I'll try it out.

As for Roar over Megahorn, I have megahorn to threaten Liepard out and prevent it from taunting me. It also helps keep Grass-type switch-ins on the lookout.

Dragon Tail is used over Body Slam because it actually does more total damage, factoring in hazards.

Shadow Sneak is used on Gourgeist because often my final protect will leave the foe with a smidgen of health, and priority can be very useful. Same reasoning applies for Aqua Jet. Gourgeist doesn't need Seed Bomb to threaten the stuff it walls anyway, as Leech Wisp is great.

Typhlosion counters Sigilyph. Specs Eruption OHKOs even after a CM, and Fire Blast OHKOs assuming no CM. So I'm not replacing him.

CroTomb is a good suggestion, but Vivillon is vital, as being able to incapacitate something is great for this team. I may try it.

Also, I'm not as hazards weak as you think.

 

[GlassGlaceon]

CroTomb is a good suggestion, but Vivillon is vital, as being able to incapacitate something is great for this team. I may try it.

Also, I'm not as hazards weak as you think.

No, you're pretty hazards weak. With all of your mons bar vivi who takes 50% from SR anyways, spikes+ SR really do a number to your team because of the lack of resistances for SR bar like rhydon who gets worn down w/out lefties anyways.

Typhlosion in no way counters sigilyph, because um

252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 187-220 (62.9 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sigilyph: 286-337 (82.1 - 96.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

ok, um lemme get this straight. If you have no mons that can at least hit a little bit hard on full stall, which is the direction your team is and should be heading for, you'll really have no way to hit opponents outside of residual from hazards that are confined to p much one mon and this weak priority you say "could come in handy." You should probably replace them with stronger moves tbh, as weak 40 BP Priority off of uninvested hits almost as hard as a soft breeze, and will most likely not be taking your weakened opponents out anyways. I'd suggest using cherub's priority changes, although you may want to try Hydro pump on qwilfish to be able to ohko rhydon with basically any residual damage and you could change the nature to Bold if you choose to do so, same with gourgeist, as it needs a little help in the atk department as well

I suggest you change rhydon's EV spread to 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD with an Impish nature as you're able to avoid the 2HKO from things like timidscarf ape, opposing defensive qwilfish, Assault Vest Pangoro and you avoid the OHKO from random things like physical LO Sceptile, LO Xatu, and Adamant LO feraligatr's Waterfall.

To re-adress ur hazards problem, you probably should add cryo over typh, as it adds an extra check to lilligant, who can pretty much 6-0 u atm frend.

Hope the rate helped and,
Cherub gave some great advice, I hope you consider it mang

 

[ium]

i'm just going to break this down to show why Cherub Agent's rate is worth considering entirely

stall teams (this isn't even strictly a stall team anyway) are inherently weak to any form of hazards because they rely on switching and taking hits. if you get spikes stacked on you then 3HKOs are turned into 2HKOs from things like non-choice sawk or archeops for example. it takes almost no effort to get any form of hazards up against a bulkier team so not only is it a poor choice to have a "stall" team with no hazard control, but without it, using eruption typhlosion that would like to switch freely since it locks itself into a move to begin with is an incredible waste

aside from the fact that using a pokemon reliant on hazards off without anything to control hazards is not a good idea, typhlosion isn't even close to a sigilyph counter if it can't switch in safely. so what are you going to do? if you sacrifice a component of your stall core to guarantee bringing typhlosion in (what if you have to take stealth rock? what if sigilyph isn't 0/0 and has a bulkier spread?), i really doubt a player with half a thought would not have a typhlosion check they could switch into to preserve their obviously clear win condition. the tradeoff isn't worth it. even if by some miracle you don't have stealth rock on your side of the field and the opponent risks their win condition, full-health eruption isn't a guaranteed OHKO against a +1 sigilyph which is very likely to be the case

dragon tail on lickilicky isn't worth it. the special-attacking substitute users you're relying on lickilicky to handle can't even get their substitutes broken. that alone should be reason to use it

megahorn isn't necessary on rhydon. earthquake does a ton of damage to liepard with no investment even if it isn't an OHKO and i don't think any sane person would sacrifice their liepard to prevent hazards if it's going to be really useful for getting knock off on your bulky pokemon, especially gourgeist and rhydon switching in. what grass-type are you hitting besides exeggutor that could switch directly into a rock blast? lilligant and sceptile take at least 50% from three hits and wouldn't appreciate that in conjunction with hazards already. you can only safely megahorn as they try to switch in anyway which probably isn't happening too often considering they are frail and would try to avoid that. assuming people do switch them in directly, if you use roar instead, it's likely you've forced them to take excess hazards damage and hampered their ability to sweep your team later. not only that, but you have things like lickilicky and gourgeist to help you so it's not like it's compulsory to have some "lure" move on rhydon and sacrifice something with far greater utility against a wider range of threats

priority is also not necessary on a stall team. you're running a grass-type that can't even handle substitute water-type users yet those are the same pokemon that you're claiming to have weaknesses against? just give qwilfish and gourgeist the reliable attacking move they need because a 40 base move with no investment is terrible

i held off on rating your team the same day it was posted, but i was essentially going to suggest spiritomb with rest / sleep talk / dark pulse / calm mind as well. it gives you a better buffer against sigilyph as rhydon can already handle the calm mind variants that use psyshock and heat wave, and equally importantly it gives you a win condition outside of just "use hazards" because you're going to give yourself a bad time if you're facing some sort of bulky team that can rapid spin or defog. it's also an extra line of defense against things like zangoose or archeops. i was intent on suggesting some sort of method for hazard removal as well for the reasons that have been outlined, but i'm not really set on which one would be best for you. you can try the suggested one