How is a x4 weakness to stealth rock, weakness to water, rock and flying type attacks (especially water who is common in the UU meta) a "superior" typing?
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np: XY UU Stage 2 - Light Em Up
- Thread starter kokoloko
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If you said this after Volc was banned, then yes, definitely. But right now, the King of UU is Volcarona. The bulky set tanks anything that's not a Rock move while the offensive set rips through entire teams at +1. Grass/Bug/Fire is all you need to rip the through the meta right now. The only things that stand a chance are. Blissey, M-Aero, Goodra, Florges, and FLETCHINDER!!! And even then, Florges and Goodra really can't do anything back.
Edit: Fire/Bug gets superior coverage, and the Stealth Rock Weakness can be mitigated by a defogger or spinner. The bulky set can even Roost off the damage as your opponent switches to their bulky water, who can't do much back. If it's an offensive set, waters are mauled by Giga Drain.
I think you're missing the fact that Volcarona gets one of the best boosting moves in the game. Stealth Rock isn't as widely seen in UU as it is in OU, it has to compete with Spikes. Seeing how the best hazard setters (Frosslass, Roserade) set up Spikes, it's no wonder why Volcarona isn't completely shot down. The only kind of Flying-type attacks faster than Volc are coming from Fletchinder, which is very uncommon for some reason. Most of the Water-types you mention lack a great deal of offensive pressure, after a QD, Volcaron can survive most Scalds and heal right back up with Giga Drain or Rest or whatever you're using for recovery. Rock attacks are very rarely seen, and the only other Flying-type attacks come from Honchkrow, who wouldn't waltz in on Volcarona anyway and Crobat. So yes, it does have a superior typing because of all of the offensive pressure it puts on the opponent.
0/0 Volc and 252/0 Volc are both 2hko'd by unboosted LO CC (mixed in with Xspeed if necessary) even without rocks up, and ohko'd by boosted CC. I'm not entirely sold on the defensive set either, since it fails to ohko a lot of important things that outright murder it at +1 (Victini, Rhyperior, and Flygon immediately come to mind).
Volc is a great sweeper, but offensive sets are way too vulnerable to hazard damage and priority (offensive sets take upwards of 70% from CB Entei's XSpeed) and defensive sets do not give you the on-demand power and speed Luke has. And for all of that, you have to guarantee that rocks are off the field at all times or its defenses become pointless. I stand by my statement that Luke is far deadlier and more versatile.
I think Special or Mixed Lucario is really underrated. A lot of people switch in Physical walls to try to take on Luc, but special Lucario is pretty nifty. I wouldn't say it is Luc's best set, but it plays kind of like Lure Victini, except Lucario can actually sweep teams.
Ninja'd somewhat by Minus but a Calm Mind equivalent on a Fire-type is very deadly in this tier where the strongest water attacks are nothing but weak Scalds, meaning it can't be burnt. It also makes Florges a complete liability in a way nothing has been able to threaten both with power and speed in the same damn move (looking at you, Flame Charge Houndoom). Rock-types are also nowhere to be seen, as Gamefreak hates to make other Rock-types anywhere near as good as Tyranitar and Terrakion.
Volcarona may have problems with Stealth Rock and Extremespeed, but if you eliminate those users, its power becomes very real.
Volcarona gets Giga Drain.
People are mentioning Rhyperior because...?
People are mentioning Rhyperior because...?
i would assume it's because blissey is relevant and counters any QD+3 attacks Volcarona, whereas bulky QD sets will generally only run 2 attacks
obviously volcarona can adapt to rhyperior extremely easily, but for now bulky QD sets are easily the most common ones, and rhyperior switches into those and beats them even at +1
please don't take this as a statement of volcarona's balance in the tier
Jacks0n
formerly grassycow
I have been using this sp.defencive moltres set as a stop to volc:
View attachment 14420
Moltres @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SAtk / 136 SDef
Modest Nature
- Flamethrower
- Hurricane
- Roost
- U-turn
The ev's are max sp.attack for hard hitting, and 120 hp for bulk and odd hp number and 130 sp.defence to only get 3OHKO'd by a +2 volcarona fiery dance. Flamethrower > Fire blast because of misses and PP, Hurricane is opted over air slash because it can 2OHKO +2 sp.defence volc while air slash can only 3OHKO. Roost for longevity and u-turn to catch the switches. This has actually been doing very well and I haven't once been sweeped by volc, but it desperately needs defog/spin support. This can also do well against unboosted lucario.
Proof of what it can do:
+2 252+ SpA Volcarona Fiery Dance vs. 120 HP / 136 SpD Moltres: 144-171 (41 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (but moltres can roost so lol)
+2 252+ SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 120 HP / 136 SpD Moltres: 81-96 (23 - 27.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Proof of what it can do back:
252+ SpA Moltres Hurricane vs. +2 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 186-218 (59.8 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
View attachment 14420
Moltres @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SAtk / 136 SDef
Modest Nature
- Flamethrower
- Hurricane
- Roost
- U-turn
The ev's are max sp.attack for hard hitting, and 120 hp for bulk and odd hp number and 130 sp.defence to only get 3OHKO'd by a +2 volcarona fiery dance. Flamethrower > Fire blast because of misses and PP, Hurricane is opted over air slash because it can 2OHKO +2 sp.defence volc while air slash can only 3OHKO. Roost for longevity and u-turn to catch the switches. This has actually been doing very well and I haven't once been sweeped by volc, but it desperately needs defog/spin support. This can also do well against unboosted lucario.
Proof of what it can do:
+2 252+ SpA Volcarona Fiery Dance vs. 120 HP / 136 SpD Moltres: 144-171 (41 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (but moltres can roost so lol)
+2 252+ SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 120 HP / 136 SpD Moltres: 81-96 (23 - 27.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Proof of what it can do back:
252+ SpA Moltres Hurricane vs. +2 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 186-218 (59.8 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I've been running max Atk Assault Vest Snorlax with rock slide and it's a very solid volcarona counter. Bulky Volcarona does nothing to it and even max Sp Atk life orb fails to 2Hko at +1. It can always switch in on a quiver dance and beat it.
Snorlax @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 176 HP / 80 SDef / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit / crunch
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Body Slam / return
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 176 HP / 80 SpD Assault Vest Snorlax: 185-218 (36.6 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 0 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 176 HP / 80 SpD Assault Vest Snorlax: 108-127 (21.3 - 25.1%) -- 98.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Snorlax Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 452-536 (145.3 - 172.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Snorlax Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 300-356 (80.4 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Snorlax @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 176 HP / 80 SDef / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit / crunch
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Body Slam / return
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 176 HP / 80 SpD Assault Vest Snorlax: 185-218 (36.6 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 0 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 176 HP / 80 SpD Assault Vest Snorlax: 108-127 (21.3 - 25.1%) -- 98.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Snorlax Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 452-536 (145.3 - 172.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Snorlax Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 300-356 (80.4 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Last edited:
Jacks0n
formerly grassycow
the only problem is that it has no recovery, could be worn down and volc could still sweep late game.I've been running max Atk Assault Vest Snorlax with rock slide and it's a very solid volcarona counter. Bulky Volcarona does nothing to it and even max Sp Atk life orb fails to 2Hko at +1. It can always switch in on a quiver dance and beat it.
Snorlax @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 176 HP / 80 SDef / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit / crunch
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Body Slam / return
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 176 HP / 80 SpD Assault Vest Snorlax: 185-218 (36.6 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 0 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 176 HP / 80 SpD Assault Vest Snorlax: 108-127 (21.3 - 25.1%) -- 98.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Snorlax Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 452-536 (145.3 - 172.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Snorlax Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 300-356 (80.4 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
tbh Fletchinder isn't anywhere near shitty and it can revenge kill some top threats in the tier rather effectively including Heracross, Roserade and Mienshao. It's way more legitimate than it looks.
not to mention it isn't the best way to deal with volcarona anyway. i dunno, i think volc might be a /bit/ too good for the meta, but people are way overstating how hard it is to deal with.
here's a tip: keep your rocks up. that helps a ton.
want actual pokemon? here's a list: snorlax, blissey (stoss + twave never loses to volc), rock slide goodra, (mega) aerodactyl, infernape (even better if its scarf), rhyperior (and don't give me that giga drain bullshit, that isn't good in this tier, it was only good in bw ou because of rain mons), HARIYAMA (pretty underrated actually), and the aforementioned fletchinder are all very very solid checks.
softer checks include SpD hippowdon, flygon, arcanine, victini, chandelure, noivern, tentacruel, and swampert.
offensive answers: tyrantrum, barbaracle, and if you want to be cool there's also kabutops, omastar, and druddigon. kabu is kind of shitty tho i admit :o
revenging tools: extremespeed from luke or entei. sucker punch from honchkrow and mega absol. psyshock from sash zam.
volc would have been completely ridiculous if it dropped by itself, but a hard counter, two solid checks, and the best revenge killer ever dropped right alongside it, so stop bitching for a second and actually play the fucking meta.
thanks. :]
here's a tip: keep your rocks up. that helps a ton.
want actual pokemon? here's a list: snorlax, blissey (stoss + twave never loses to volc), rock slide goodra, (mega) aerodactyl, infernape (even better if its scarf), rhyperior (and don't give me that giga drain bullshit, that isn't good in this tier, it was only good in bw ou because of rain mons), HARIYAMA (pretty underrated actually), and the aforementioned fletchinder are all very very solid checks.
softer checks include SpD hippowdon, flygon, arcanine, victini, chandelure, noivern, tentacruel, and swampert.
offensive answers: tyrantrum, barbaracle, and if you want to be cool there's also kabutops, omastar, and druddigon. kabu is kind of shitty tho i admit :o
revenging tools: extremespeed from luke or entei. sucker punch from honchkrow and mega absol. psyshock from sash zam.
volc would have been completely ridiculous if it dropped by itself, but a hard counter, two solid checks, and the best revenge killer ever dropped right alongside it, so stop bitching for a second and actually play the fucking meta.
thanks. :]
Choice band arcanine is a decent check to to volc and lucario. The choice band set does about 93% to bulky moth, which is a guaranteed ohko with prior damage. Ypu can run flash fire and +2 bug buzz is just about a 3hko on 0/4 arcanine. Flare blitz and close combat blow non agility luc out of the water, but arcanine is ohko by close combat with sr on the field.but, that base 95 speed lets it beat lucario as long as it hasnt boosted and has e speed.
Defensive arcanine is just as good!
+2 bug buzz from bulky moth is barely a 3hko on def arvanine, while 4 atk flare blitz is a guaranteed 2hko after sr.
Life orb 252+ close combat does about 43% after intimidate. Flare blitz is still a ohko not factoring in the defensive drops.
Access to roar wow and toxic helps as well.
Defensive arcanine is just as good!
+2 bug buzz from bulky moth is barely a 3hko on def arvanine, while 4 atk flare blitz is a guaranteed 2hko after sr.
Life orb 252+ close combat does about 43% after intimidate. Flare blitz is still a ohko not factoring in the defensive drops.
Access to roar wow and toxic helps as well.
So, what are all the cool kids running for fletchinder moveset wise?
Mainly acrobatics, WoW, roost, and swords dance, without any item.
you know what's good? this thing:
Gothorita @ Eviolite
Ability: Shadow Tag
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Calm Mind
-Psyshock
this thing can be sooooo good if used right. monopsychic is pretty shitty with all the dark types that roam the tier, but that's not really the point. this thing can switch in to and trap florges and blissey with relative ease, getting rid of the two best special walls in the tier. it obviously deals with choiced fighting types pretty well, and can trap a myriad of other pokemon. dark types / knock off sucks but play smart and it really shouldn't be a problem. try it out.
Gothorita @ Eviolite
Ability: Shadow Tag
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Calm Mind
-Psyshock
this thing can be sooooo good if used right. monopsychic is pretty shitty with all the dark types that roam the tier, but that's not really the point. this thing can switch in to and trap florges and blissey with relative ease, getting rid of the two best special walls in the tier. it obviously deals with choiced fighting types pretty well, and can trap a myriad of other pokemon. dark types / knock off sucks but play smart and it really shouldn't be a problem. try it out.
Snorlax is still one of the best special walls in the game (without wish-pass), considering it has offensive presence, much unlike Florges and Umbreon. I know Florges has a great typing and high SpA, I just find Body Slam and the fact that Lax can go banded to be much better than an Offensive Florges. Plus, Lax can learn WW to phase out any bulky sweepers, namely Suicine, CM Cress, and Mega Amp
Not Koko, but Thick Fat plus Bug resist = nice wall
Calcs:
+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Fiery Dance vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Hariyama: 166-196 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- 28.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hariyama: 186-220 (37.8 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
And Hariyama learns Stone Miss (Edge) to hit it with
252+ Atk Hariyama Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 644-760 (206.4 - 243.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Even bulky Volc is taken down by Hariyama
252+ Atk Hariyama Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 244 Def Volcarona: 472-556 (126.5 - 149%) -- guaranteed OHKO
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