np: UU - Higher Ground

[Age of Kings]

Aggron
@ Life Orb
Adamant Nature (Atk+ / SpA-)
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

- Rock Polish
- Head Smash
- Aqua Tail
- Ice Punch

What's wrong with this set? If Torterra poses a huge problem to Aggron as is, why not put a move that could potentially beat its greatest counter? There's little reason to not use a move that you can use to beat your best counter with prediction. You can pack it on a CB set too.

I copied this from franky's set above, except with Ice Punch in the last slot. For calcs:

Adamant LO Ice Punch on max/max Torterra with Ice Punch: 350 Atk vs 339 Def & 394 HP (75 Base Power): 292 - 348 (74.11% - 88.32%)

Since the Aggron above outruns Torterra, it will lose.

With CB: 525 Atk vs 339 Def & 394 HP (75 Base Power): 336 - 396 (85.28% - 100.51%)

40% chance of OHKO with SR down.

Your point is the redundant one. If you're running the LO set, you can spam Head Smash and Aqua Tail as you said, and if Torterra switches in, you can go ahead and kill it. I'm sure Aqua Tail will be doing at least 20%.

Yes, I know someone will say "Registeel" now, I'll concede that. And yes, Quagsire will probably be switching it with impunity now. The point is, Aggron is now going to be one huge prediction game (honestly, I just wanted to debunk the people going "Torterra!"), guessing whether or not it has EQ or Ice Punch. Certain threats cannot switch in at all until you've figured out its set. It's sort of like a UU Lucario or Gengar.

 

[pkmn1000]

Yes, I know someone will say "Registeel" now, I'll concede that. And yes, Quagsire will probably be switching it with impunity now. The point is, Aggron is now going to be one huge prediction game (honestly, I just wanted to debunk the people going "Torterra!"), guessing whether or not it has EQ or Ice Punch.

Replace aqua tail with earthquake and the other one with solar beam. charge on the switch and Ohko quaggy.Damage: 129.31% - 151.96% with a life orb and neutral sp atk with no evs.

 

[Age of Kings]

But the opponent can just as well switch out before you attack and you missed a 2HKO or OHKO chance on something else...

 

[YaM]

Milotic with HP Grass > Quagsire with Recover

Seeing how HP Grass is replacing Ice Beam as the second attack for Milotic I think Quagsire is doomed anyway.


I had been thinking of Quick Feet + Swords Dance Ursaring yesterday, but apparently it got Belly Drum. Any of you know what can Ursaring switch in on and force out to get a stat boost?

 

[Class]

Ursaring can force out anything that can't KO it and dies to Facade, really. it honestly depends on your opponent though. He breaks through NU with ease, not sure about UU

 

[Age of Kings]

So, um. Discuss the new Super Fang users. I'm surprised this thread doesn't have that much activity tonight as UU is mostly affected by this.

Copy-paste:

With Super Fang Walrein, Hail stall is now extremely, extremely potent. Non-ghost types will be taking heavy damage between entry hazards and hail damage and if Walrein gets a sub up, it will be horrible. I would imagine something like Blizzard / Super Fang / Sub / Protect because with ample support it no longer requires Toxic with the exception of beating enemy ice types.

Sharpedo is another potent user of Super Fang. It already has raw offensive power and speed, so it can Super fang on switches and easily kill things with Aqua Jet or whatever else it can pack. It has STAB Crunch to kill any ghost types that try to come in on Super Fang. In UU, only Scarfed Rotom can potentially defeat it. I'm not sure if LO gives recoil for Super Fang, though, because Super Fang fitted on a standard set like Aqua Jet / Ice Beam / EQ would be epic.

 

[Mrobinson587]

Any thoughts on our potential UU Pokemon Aggron? Speculation right now, Aggron is a potent force in the UU tier now thanks to Head Smash. Adamant + Polish with Life Orb is deadly as Head Smash deals a max of 77.92% on 252 / 252 Milotic. Deals a minimum of 52.23% on 252 / 252 Slowbro. It has Aqua Tail to hit Donphan who resist Head Smash - although not a wise idea to attack it when its HP is high. Whats worst is that its 180 Def can take priority from Azumarill and such.

Aggron
@ Life Orb
Adamant Nature (Atk+ / SpA-)
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

- Rock Polish
- Head Smash
- Aqua Tail
- Earthquake / Bullet Punch

Wait what? Aggron doesn't get Head Smash or Bullet Punch but does have Rock Smash a base 40 Fighting move.

I mean unless you have a leaked version of HeartGold and SoulSilver and it now gets those or something.

Edit: My bad I haven't been on anything else on the forums. I see now

 

[Lou Cypher]

Super Fang Houndoom is gonna be fun. Rip off 50% of your opponent's best Houndoom counter instantly? Check please.

 

[Garganator]

Hmmm... after all there's one reliable switch against CB Aggron - Intimidiate Hitmontop. You can only 2OHKO it with Iron Tail, which is quite meh, but still you may hit for super-effective Regirock. Physical Hariyama can be 2OHKoed by Head Smash, but it's quite shaky 2OHKO, which may not happen. Anyway Iron Tail 2OHKO Hariyama also. So yeah, after all something will handle Aggron - Intimidiate Hitmontop (and to some extent Hariyama and Quagsire) or Torterra depending on last moveslot choice.

So, um. Discuss the new Super Fang users. I'm surprised this thread doesn't have that much activity tonight as UU is mostly affected by this.

Wow, this will change metagame for sure, especially when almost of them has super-effective hits against ghosts. And I don't think it was a really good idea to add tutorial for such broken move. But yeah, probably Sharpedo and Houndoom will enjoy it the most. Chansey won't be happy with 50% hp left after switch on Houndoom, making his job much easier. And Super Fang + Aqua Jet sounds really appealing on Sharpedo. In theory Walrein with Super Fang sounds broken as hell, but I think it will have "moveslot syndrome" as it has many good options to use and all of them are usefull. Roar, Toxic, Sub, Protect, Surf, Blizzard, Super Fang, Aqua Ring. So something will be able to handle Walrein, even with Super Fang. But I think right now Walrein may work even without Hail depending on Aqua Ring + Super Fang. Still I don't think that Walrein will end up banned, even with Super Fang.

 

[d2m]

Ursaring can force out anything that can't KO it and dies to Facade, really. it honestly depends on your opponent though. He breaks through NU with ease, not sure about UU

It's revenge killed really easily and absolutely destroyed if it tries to switch into anything. It's not that great.

 

[Age of Kings]

I agree, Houndoom and Sharpedo would benefit the most. Not only due to dark STAB but because if the opponent doesn't attack immediately and they're forced out, something will die. Basically, the prediction is taken out for them.

The main reason I'm afraid of Super Fang Walrein is because anyone can easily build a new hail stall team with extra emphasis on entry hazards and you basically have something that can deal huge damage on the switch in. Having just Stealth Rock down deals ~70% damage on the switch in (100 - neutral 12% from SR = 87 / 2 Super Fang = 43 - 6 from Hail = 37% remaining). But since Obama and Froslass are gone, I do agree that there will be ways of dealing with it, but of course you cannot underestimate the threat.

 

[Mrobinson587]

Sharpedo Houndoom and Toxicroak will be the best users of it for sure. Possibly even break into OU. Switching into these new super fang users will be a daunting prospect with their speed and great mixed attacking abilites.

When I was playtesting when I was going to do Sharpedo's analysis, I already found Sharpedo to be pretty good in OU when played right. It can also outspeed and survive bullet punch and either KO Scizor or take it down with it due to Rough Skin. Out of all the new Super Fang users it will be the best user of it IMO.

Superfang
Aqua Jet
Earthquake/Crunch
Ice beam/Hp Electric/Surf
with a + speed nature will be quite effective at least in the current metagame.

Houndoom will see a rise in OU play even I'm sure as it will be able to differentiate itself from other fire types there.

Houndoom will probably most effective modifying it's mixed set
SuperFang
Overheat/Fire blast
Sucker Punch
Crunch/Pursuit/Substitute

For Toxicroak I don't know. SF + stab priority sounds good but I don't think it will work as good on toxicroak

 

[ToF]

I'd just like to say, Nasty Plot Houndoom usually 6-0's stall teams, so stop using it please. Mixed Houndoom is novelty at best imo, even i you happen to Pursuit something like Rotom or Blissey. NP Houndoom actually beats both hard, as opposed to taking off a third of their hp or a half.

 

[whistle]

haha magcargo is sweet... rock typing for a normal flying resist, flame body so all of those physical attackers (well most of them) don't get off for free when they hit you and run. sets up SR, can toxic a bulky water on the second switch, recover too.

 

[franky]

Super Fang Houndoom is gonna be fun. Rip off 50% of your opponent's best Houndoom counter instantly? Check please.

Nasty Plot is much better. Super Fang is essentially just an hp cutter. You Super Fang Chansey but still loose because you need the Nasty Plot. Nasty Plot 2HKOs Chansey without the Super Fang. I'd say Walrein can rip apart teams with super fang.

 

[pkmn1000]

Nasty Plot is much better. Super Fang is essentially just an hp cutter. You Super Fang Chansey but still loose because you need the Nasty Plot. Nasty Plot 2HKOs Chansey without the Super Fang. I'd say Walrein can rip apart teams with super fang.

If im up against chansey im just gonna super fang and flee so i dont see why any special attacker would stay in on a chansey.

 

[Erazor]

If im up against chansey im just gonna super fang and flee so i dont see why any special attacker would stay in on a chansey.

Well, if the said Special Attacker can beat Chansey, then I'd defnitely keep it in.

 

[zorbees]

Because it can actually beat Chansey? You know, Chansey isn't perfect, it can't wall every Special Attacker. (EDIT: damn Erazor, ninja'ing me)

Also ToF, some stall teams carry Milotic, but yeah, if you can weaken Milo, NP Doom is basically gg against stall.

 

[dekzeh]

The things I see having the hugest improvement/impact in UU are probably:

Block Perish Song Lapras, first Perish Trapper that can take a hit since GSC Misdreavous! Could really 6-0 stall teams to be honest, since the only common PHazers can't take a Surf at all (Steelix, Donphan).

Head Smash Aggron, hits harder then Rampardos Stone Edge ffs, haven't really got calcs, but from my experience with Ramp this will OHKO or come very close to OHKOing Milotic and 2HKOing Hitmontop through Intimidate with a Choice Band.. just beastly

 

[pkmn1000]

I've found that ice beam/hp rock chanseys is a hard counter for yanmega since almost everyone has one and its not hard tp bump a move for it.

 

[kd24]

"edit post" and then select delete on one of them.

Anyway, I don't see why you would sacrifice an attack on Chansey for a weak Special Attack that will see almost no use.

Chansey
- Wish
- Toxic
- Protect
- Seismic Toss

can't really think of anything to toss out here

Chansey
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave

well, you could toss out Stealth Rock but I would just put the much more useful Toxic, Aromatherapy or even Gravity if you feel like giving levitators/flying-types some spikes/tspikes damage, as well as being hit by donphan EQ. HP Rock or Ice Beam is only useful for when Yanmega is used and dead weight when not. Not to mention you might give yourself false hope that you could take on a Rotom or Mismagius and that sure isn't happening with Chansey's low Special Attack.

 

[frogbandit]

I am so sad that honchkrow will be going OU or at least BL soon, as it is getting Brave Bird in the new HeartGold and SoulSilver. One of my favorite UU's to use...

 

[One Hit Knockout]

All of this changing means I gotta create a new UU team. =/ Like it didn't take long enough to create a good one... =|

 

[frogbandit]

All of this changing means I gotta create a new UU team. =/ Like it didn't take long enough to create a good one... =|

yep, same here. Even my OU teams too :P

 

[Stagnant]

Currently it isn't hard to create a UU team... just use...

Yanmega
Roserade
Donphan
Milotic
Registeel
Missmaggy/ Rotom