Metagame np: Stage 8 - Dream at Tempo 119 (READ POST #119)

[ryan]

The song is irrelevant to tier shifts, but it's really good so just listen to it you nerds.

As you all probably know by now, today we lost Uxie and Fletchinder to RU and gained Hitmonchan, Skuntank, and Shiftry in return. While Hitmonchan will likely be irrelevant, Skuntank and Shiftry will be sure to shake things up, especially fresh off the ban of our best offensive Dark-type.

We also lost Magneton, Gallade, and Typhlosion from BL3 to RU. With the recent unban of Combusken thanks to the new Baton Pass clause in OU, that leaves BL3 completely empty for the first time since the ban of Sigilyph at the very start of XY NU.

Use this thread to discuss the recent tier shifts, any potential metagame changes, and trends you see coming from them!

 

[Ares]

Free Straight Outta Compton!

 

[ryan]

because they dark..

 

[SlickHippo99]

I can see Mawile getting a lot better in this meta. It can serve as a decent switch in to Skunk (non Fire Blast variants) and Shiftry (gets chunked by Leaf Storm though). It can also set rocks and hit Hitmonchan super effectively with Play Rough, but I'm not sure how relevant or important that is. Sawk will probably be more popular since it eats Shiftry for breakfast and can OHKO Skunk. We also lost Uxie which is nice for it. 85 speed isn't terrible now with no Uxie and it can outspeed Shiftry and Skunk. Overall I'm really excited for this meta.

Also agreeing with Montsegur in honor of the upcoming movie

 

[The Leprechaun]

This tier shake up looks really interesting and I can't wait to jump on the ladder with all three of the drops adding something significant.

hollywood your dismissal of hitmonchan as a mon that will likely be irrelevant seems very unfair to me. While in RU it had phenomenal competition in the form of its brothers hitmonlee and hitmontop as fighting type spinners, it seems to have a lot more space to provide a niche here. In the whole of A rank, there is one spinner and when you go to the B ranks, there are only a further 3. What this shows is that there is definitely room for hitmonchan to provide this kind of utility, especially when it boasts really powerful priority in the form of iron fist boosted mach punch - a tool which is phenomenal in this meta.

As an offensive spinner, it's inevitable that it will have direct comparisons with the already established kabutops. Kabutops has higher speed, its own priority, a secondary typing and significantly higher attack. The way hitmonchan differentiates itself is in a couple of ways. The first is that mach punch outranks aqua jet entirely in this meta. The days when fire types ruled the tier are over and aqua jet is no longer the massive tool it was. Instead, mach punch can be used to revenge the top threats in the tier of klinklang and tauros.

252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Mach Punch vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Klinklang: 174-205 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Aqua Jet vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Klinklang: 75-91 (26.4 - 32%) -- 47% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 203-242 (69.7 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 90-107 (30.9 - 36.7%) -- 64.3% chance to 3HKO

It's even worth considering that because of the iron fist boost, hitmonchan's priorty is more powerful even when they both hit for the same effectiveness.

252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 97-114 (28.4 - 33.4%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 87-103 (25.5 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

What's more is that with the dropping of these two dark types, strong fighting priority will be in high demand as there were already strong dark threats in the tier with liepard and cacturne. Its powerful coverage in iron fist boosted elemental punches may also prove useful as it will allow chan to hit bulky mons like torterra, exeguttor, claydol, vileplume, roselia and a couple of others for good damage.

Of course, with the number of fighting types in the tier it is going to face a lot of competition and may not be at the top of the viability rankings but with the assets it does have, I can't see it dropping into obscurity.

 

[SotheBlacKnight]

This tier shake up looks really interesting and I can't wait to jump on the ladder with all three of the drops adding something significant.

hollywood your dismissal of hitmonchan as a mon that will likely be irrelevant seems very unfair to me. While in RU it had phenomenal competition in the form of its brothers hitmonlee and hitmontop as fighting type spinners, it seems to have a lot more space to provide a niche here. In the whole of A rank, there is one spinner and when you go to the B ranks, there are only a further 3. What this shows is that there is definitely room for hitmonchan to provide this kind of utility, especially when it boasts really powerful priority in the form of iron fist boosted mach punch - a tool which is phenomenal in this meta.

As an offensive spinner, it's inevitable that it will have direct comparisons with the already established kabutops. Kabutops has higher speed, its own priority, a secondary typing and significantly higher attack. The way hitmonchan differentiates itself is in a couple of ways. The first is that mach punch outranks aqua jet entirely in this meta. The days when fire types ruled the tier are over and aqua jet is no longer the massive tool it was. Instead, mach punch can be used to revenge the top threats in the tier of klinklang and tauros.

252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Mach Punch vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Klinklang: 174-205 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Aqua Jet vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Klinklang: 75-91 (26.4 - 32%) -- 47% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 203-242 (69.7 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 90-107 (30.9 - 36.7%) -- 64.3% chance to 3HKO

It's even worth considering that because of the iron fist boost, hitmonchan's priorty is more powerful even when they both hit for the same effectiveness.

252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 97-114 (28.4 - 33.4%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 87-103 (25.5 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

What's more is that with the dropping of these two dark types, strong fighting priority will be in high demand as there were already strong dark threats in the tier with liepard and cacturne. Its powerful coverage in iron fist boosted elemental punches may also prove useful as it will allow chan to hit bulky mons like torterra, exeguttor, claydol, vileplume, roselia and a couple of others for good damage.

Of course, with the number of fighting types in the tier it is going to face a lot of competition and may not be at the top of the viability rankings but with the assets it does have, I can't see it dropping into obscurity.

Now personally I agree that Hitmonchan is going to be at least somewhat more relevant then what some people are already assuming it to be, but I don't think it's main competition will necessarily be Kabutops. While yes Kabutops is a poke that can be an offensive spinner I tend to agree with the people who'd state that it really isn't that good as a spinner (not dismissing that people still run it as such). But most of your argument leans towards talking about priority attacks and that I feel that Hitmonchan's main competition is Gurdurr in that regard.

Gurdurr has the same Attack stat as Hitmonchan and access to Mach Punch and Iron Fist and he actually maybe just as good or better against the new drops then Hitmonchan and maybe even just as good as Sawk. Gurdurr looks to me to regain it's usefulness from this shift.

So I think the question should be: Does Hitmonchan's access to Rapid Spin, higher speed, and ability to run Life Orb without sacrificing Special Bulk make it more or equally viable then Gurdurr?

 

[Swagodile]

The thing about Hitmonchan that it doesn't have access to Knock Off, leaving it with no way to deal with Ghost-types.

 

[Ares]

QueenOfLuvdiscs mentioned this in the last thread, but I gotta say that skuntank has severe 4MSS. Like I thought it was bad in gen5 NU when I had to decide between which Dark-type move I wanted; sucker / taunt / crunch / pursuit. But now throw Defog in the mix and it seems to me like its trying to do to much. I think eventually a role will be decided upon where Skuntank best fits, but right now I'm with queenie where I'm trying to get it to do everything on my team.

 

[Ares]

The thing about Hitmonchan that it doesn't have access to Knock Off, leaving it with no way to deal with Ghost-types.

252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Ice Punch vs. 152 HP / 104 Def Gourgeist-Small: 187-221 (64.7 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Haunter: 226-266 (97.8 - 115.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom: 149-177 (61.5 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Ice Punch vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Golurk: 291-343 (83.3 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mismagius: 182-214 (69.7 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Hitmonchan Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 88-105 (27.1 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Misdreavous is literally the only one from that list who can take more than one hit. On top of which if it really wanted to spin it could just use Foresight. I think Knock Off is nice, but having it isn't crucial to the success of said Pokemon.

Also double post cause I can

 

[ryan]

Yes, I was probably too harsh on Hitmonchan by saying it will be irrelevant, but not by a lot. The niche of a Fighting-type spinner isn't really much of a niche. It resists Stealth Rock but in return is susceptible to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, whereas Pelipper, Claydol, Mantine, Cryogonal, and Skuntank can all remove hazards without worrying about Toxic Spikes and Claydol can remove every type of hazard without caring about any of them at all. It also resists Dark, but our two new Dark-types, don't necessarily care much about it.

252+ Atk Skuntank Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Hitmonchan: 139-165 (45.8 - 54.4%) -- 52.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Skuntank Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hitmonchan: 139-165 (57.6 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hitmonchan: 153-183 (50.3 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hitmonchan: 153-183 (63.4 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

and vs the inevitable Assault Vest Hitmonchan, you can Knock Off on the switch, and then it can't switch back in.

The calcs vs spinblockers are cool and all, but Haunter and Mismagius can still beat it with Destiny Bond given Haunter doesn't die on the switch. Gourgeist-Small can also burn it, so your useless Pokemon becomes even more useless. This is all without mentioning that offensive Hitmonchan is a mostly worse Pokemon than offensive Rapid Spin Kabutops, which I already think is pretty mediocre as it stands. And a lot of teams don't care about spinblocking and will happily take momentum instead with offensive Psychic-types/BP Musharna/whatever.

Basically, if you want to condense an inferior Sandslash and an inferior Gurdurr into one Pokemon, use Hitmonchan. On specific teams, I can see a condensed inferior Sandslash and inferior Gurdurr working fine, but it's going to be very specific. Certainly not irrelevant, but it should absolutely be obscure (drop to PU).

 

[Oda]

I wonder how relevant Agility Hitmonchan will be as a late game cleaner? Sort of like a less bulky but faster RP Rhydon but with semi reliable healing , no 4x weaknesses, and no dual stab with good prioriy.

 

[jake]

QueenOfLuvdiscs mentioned this in the last thread, but I gotta say that skuntank has severe 4MSS. Like I thought it was bad in gen5 NU when I had to decide between which Dark-type move I wanted; sucker / taunt / crunch / pursuit. But now throw Defog in the mix and it seems to me like its trying to do to much. I think eventually a role will be decided upon where Skuntank best fits, but right now I'm with queenie where I'm trying to get it to do everything on my team.

i think skuntank will fall into one of two dedicated roles on a team (defogger or pursuit trapper), and that additional sets will ultimately just be offshoot generally subpar variants (mix skuntank with fire blast, etc). they will be good on some builds, but overall the utility from defog / trap skuntank will be most useful in general and become standard. there is definitely room to experiment with him and i love that the movepool options are so diverse, but here's how i'm thinking of it right now:

sucker punch / poison jab are currently essential for skunk to be outstanding in any way, i think. the former validates its usefulness against offensive teams, while the latter helps it be one of the few shiftry checks in existence & lets it deal with mega audino, who is also bound to get a lot better after this tier shift. i would say that taunt is the next most important move, as its really the only thing that lets skunk really reliably check & pressure stuff like musharna, since that'll be one of its primary jobs of any team. it also keeps probopass or w/e from just spamming rocks until you run out of defog pp if you're using the defog variant. taunt in general cannot be underestimated in usefulness.

beyond that, i think you're split between pursuit and defog for your last slot on standard sets. running both together seems meh to me, because you lose out on taunt for a weak dark move and/or hazard coverage, and it becomes you trying to shove too many important roles onto one mon. not to say that it would be outright bad, just ineffective.

other options exist that can be put over taunt / pursuit / defog, but i feel like the usefulness of any option barring maybe crunch over taunt (prevent being klink set up bait, nice reliable strong dark stab) won't be as good as whatever you're gonna give up for it.

spreads (offensive, sdef, bulky offensive) and items (black sludge, blackglasses, i've even heard rocky helm) will probably wade in and out of effectiveness too i think, so it'd be too early to tell atm. just my thoughts tho!

sorry for any typoes, all typed out on tablet

 

[Aladyyn]

Skunk is not really Klinklang setup bait even without Crunch as it can just Taunt on the Shift Gear and then do heavy damage with Sucker Punch + Aftermath. Crunch does seem nice in general though, Dark STAB has proven to be incredible recently and it will probably continue to be even with the rise of Fighting types. As far as spreads go, I'm running the same one as Fletchinder did since it has the same base speed as Skunk: enough speed for neutral base 70s, full Attack investment and rest in bulk. It might be better to invest in SpDef instead of HP but I'll have to run some calcs to see if it's worth it.

 

[QueenOfLuvdiscs]

Skuntank @ Black Sludge
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 24 HP / 224 Atk / 176 SpD / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Taunt
- Pursuit
- Poison Jab
- Sucker Punch

This is my current spread atm for Skuntank, there's probably a slightly better spread tbh, but its what I got as a starting point. The HP EVs gives you a leftovers number so that's always helpful to gain back that extra amount of HP; the Atk investment always guarantees a 3HKO on max/max Mega Audino with PJab; the Spe is to out-slow 0 Spe Xatu so you can Pursuit trap it on a potential U-turn out and finally I just threw the rest into Spdef so that I can check Lilligant, Shiftry, Mega Audino and the few remaining Psychic types using Signal Beam (or potentially HP Ground lol).
The moveset is beneficial to my team, so you can change that up accordingly, but as a generic fat taunter, it works well.

 

[Punchshroom]

Mont conveniently ignoring SuperGeist, which is still the most reliable defensive spinblocker we have :/

Just as we gained two great Defoggers, Fletchinder leaves, great timing Linda >.> That said, with Fletchinder's departure and the fact that Shiftry is an offensive Chlorophyll sweeper with hazard removing capabilities, this shift would mostly likely herald the comeback of Sun.

The loss of Uxie and the arrival of these two Dark-types have tipped the balance of available Fighting + Psychic + Dark mons in the tier; I expect Sawk to thrive incredibly well in this meta due to the reduced number of responses and increased number of targets, and it just so happens that the newcomer Dark-types provide Defog support to maintain its Sturdy while giving Psychic-types hell. Hell, Skuntank alone will be sufficient in pushing back the wave of dominant Psychics with Pursuit and its neutrality to basically all of their moves bar Hidden Power. Skunk does have a bit of 4MSS though.

While I said that Psychic-types will be curbed, I still expect them to be partnered alongside Skunk because of their respectable synergy. Skunk would most likely be leading the charge of Dark + Fighting + Psychic cores once more. The combination of this core is just so tricky to defend against that I expect offensive teams to be even more popular in order to deal with the core.

This thing is going to be excellent. It's one of the few mons that can break the Fighting / Dark / Psychic core with little risk to itself, and the two Defoggers being great alongside it and whatnot. Previously it synergizes well with Claydol since Claydol can deal with bulky Rocks, Poisons, and Steels and whatnot, but now Shiftry is available as a more offensive hazard remover that punches massive holes alongside Scyther or even function as a lure.

Now for the drops themselves...

Shiftry @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 - 4 Atk / 4 - 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely / Mild Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Knock Off / Dark Pulse
- Sucker Punch
- Defog

The tried and true mixed set; Shiftry simply relies on its dual STABs to tear house into the tier, and both of its STAB moves are stronger than Cacturne's as well (even 4 SpA Leaf Storm outdamages 252+ SpA Giga Drain), albeit with a weaker Sucker Punch, but having the second strongest priority in the tier still isn't bad. Shiftry can go mixed either way: physically inclined Shiftry can spam the strongest Knock Off in the tier and blow away most Dark resists with Leaf Storm, while specially inclined Shiftry packs a wicked strong Leaf Storm and can hammer most Grass resists with Dark Pulse. Sun sweeper Shiftry would probably opt for Solar Beam or even Leaf Blade as their main Grass move.

Hitmonchan @ Life Orb / Black Belt
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch / Close Combat
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Punch / Foresight
- Mach Punch

Already this is outclassed offensively by Sawk and Gurdurr, so Chan needs Rapid Spin to be able to stand out. Iron Fist Mach Punch is the next biggest asset Chan has, and more Mach Punch users are admittedly welcome in NU. I gave Chan this particular EV spread because I felt that Chan's Speed tier was too awkward to consider running full Speed investment for, so I just aimed for creeping threats; this particular spread outspeeds Adamant offensive Torterra so that it can be Ice Punched. I put the remaining EVs into Defense as opposed to its Special Defense as Chan didn't resist anything specially relevant, whereas the defensive investment improves Chan's ability to take Knock Offs. This is probably Chan's most interesting advantage over the other Fighting mons in the tier; most other Fighting-types detest losing their item or simply incurring the damage, but Chan's access to Drain Punch means it can shrug off Knock Off to a decent degree.

Anyone who's played BW NU knows the swiss army knife of a Pokemon that is Skuntank. QoL already presented a more specialized Pursuit trapping Skunk so I'll just go through Skuntank's list of moves instead. Between moves such as Pursuit, Taunt, Sucker Punch, Poison Jab, Defog, Punishment, and even Memento, Skunk can usually find itself a place on most teams. While Skunk has a less than favorable matchup against the Rock-type Stealth Rockers, it makes up for it with its bulk, finding easy Defogging opportunities against Psychic-, Ghost-, and Grass-types. Zeb is probably right that fitting both Defog and Pursuit on the same Skunk would be a bit much, and Skunk does suffer mild 4MSS as it can't perform as many roles as it wants with just 4 attacks, but Skunk is pretty customizable as it can be tweaked to suit many teams' needs. I expect Skunk to be just as anti-meta in the time being as much as it would be an influential force in the future meta.

 

[MARCU5theBAW5]

Skuntank @ Dread Plate
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Poison Jab
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Explosion

This is my favorite set. I'm not sure if it's any good, but it's been doing stuff in the battles I've used it in. Double Dark STAB, Poison Jab, and Explosion. I could probably use Crunch or Fire Blast to hit stuff, but for now, it's going ham. Explosion is a useful move for just getting off damage and well... Exploding at the last second, to safely bring in another Pokemon. The team I built with it is more offensive, although it does have a couple of defensive pokes as well.

 

[Quite Quiet]

Hitmonchan @ Life Orb / Black Belt
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch / Close Combat
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Punch / Foresight
- Mach Punch

Already this is outclassed offensively by Sawk and Gurdurr, so Chan needs Rapid Spin to be able to stand out. Iron Fist Mach Punch is the next biggest asset Chan has, and more Mach Punch users are admittedly welcome in NU. I gave Chan this particular EV spread because I felt that Chan's Speed tier was too awkward to consider running full Speed investment for, so I just aimed for creeping threats; this particular spread outspeeds Adamant offensive Torterra so that it can be Ice Punched. I put the remaining EVs into Defense as opposed to its Special Defense as Chan didn't resist anything specially relevant, whereas the defensive investment improves Chan's ability to take Knock Offs. This is probably Chan's most interesting advantage over the other Fighting mons in the tier; most other Fighting-types detest losing their item or simply incurring the damage, but Chan's access to Drain Punch means it can shrug off Knock Off to a decent degree.

I'll just say, but due to Chan's defenses, you're saving about 1% damage from Knock Offs by putting the 160 EVs in defense rather than HP, but you lose out on quite a bit of special bulk by doing that.

example

252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 160 Def Hitmonchan: 95-113 (39.4 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Hitmonchan: 114-135 (40.5 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hitmonchan: 153-183 (63.4 - 75.9%) -- 87.9% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Hitmonchan: 153-183 (54.4 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Also, in an experiment with other random moves Hitmonchan learns that might be fun, I came across this:

Hitmonchan @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Focus Punch
- Substitute
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch

Iron Fist Focus Punch does so much damage even Fighting-resists take more damage from that than they do from Ice Punch. It actually does so much damage some Psychic-types (Mesprit) gets 2HKO'd after Stealth Rock. EVs outspeed base 55's and minimize sub damage. From testing, Hitmonchan actually gets a relatively easy time setting up subs thanks to it's not-terrible bulk, so it wasn't terrible. The match up vs ghosts is a bit worse without LO, but the subs make up for that. It's still a meh mon, but this was a fun enough set to return to (for me).

 

[Jim E. Russler]

I'm really excited to have Skuntank back in NU, especially since XY's Defog changes have added another great utility option to its already fantastic movepool. It was one of my favorite mons to use during BW/BW2, and its also one of my personal favorite Pokemon in general (I may be one of the only people here that likes its design, plus it has my favorite primary and dual typings). From the testing I've done so far, Skuntank is still a highly versatile and threatening Pokemon, and it was an important factor in most of the matches I played with it. Looking forward to trying out some more of its sets in the coming days.

The loss of Uxie has a lot of impact on the metagame, since it was one of our most versatile Pokemon, but I'm most interested to see how weather teams adapt after losing one of their most reliable setters. I'm also relieved that there's one less CM Psychic to deal with, even with Shiftry and Skuntank making them less threatening.

 

[Winter's Howl]

Uxie was probably in the top 3 of the most splashable mons in the tier before its departure. As such, it became my favorite mon after extensive use. Uxie was also the best CM Psychic we had, and no other CM Psychic in the tier has enough of Uxie's signature traits to really stand out in what will likely be a meta characterized by our new dark type overlords. For the closest comparison, we can look at Mesprit. Yes Mesprit is stronger, but it misses out on bulk, and most importantly a crucial speed tier. Mesprit sits at the base 80 speed tier, meaning it must first tank a hit to dish a hit to a notable number of threats that Uxie could outspeed/tie with. Mesprit does get a few extra options for coverage (such as Ice Beam and Energy Ball instead of Giga Drain), but the combination of lesser bulk and lesser speed causes too much of a difference in set up opportunities. Another notable is that Uxie's Giga Drain > Mesprit's Energy Ball provides some extra recovery, improving the longevity of a set up mon (especially when it has gotten some boosts). With all that being said, I think it would be crazy to say that CM Psychics are going to be silent. They will still be able to do their job, as they always have, but CM Psychics will definitely not have as much of an impact as NU is accustomed to (minus Sneasel meta).

Rotom-S is also going to get some spotlight here. While it lost its niche as a Fletch check, it has renewed its niche as a really solid Fighting check. Also, unlike its mono ghost counterpart, Rotom-N, it is not weak to Dark, making the job all the easier. With Uxie (the premiere CM Psychic) gone, the loss of Ghost typing is not as inconvenient, and more beneficial in this Dark/Fighting spam meta.

Sawk literally has it so easy this meta. Click CC about as many times as you want, everything will eventually die. With Uxie and Fletchinder gone to RU, Sawk just watched two of its most popular checks take a hike. There is very little in the tier that is keeping Sawk at bay. This is probably the easiest prediction I am going to make yet, but I see Sawk headlining the Dark/Fighting spam meta that NU is shaping up to be. Sawk + Skunk = Ez points. Yum.

Our dark overlords are here, and Skuntank is sitting pretty right now with the meta being largely unsettled. This thing literally makes Sawk's job so easy. Pursuit trapping Ghost and clearing hazards that break Sturdy Sawk's ability to live at 1 are just some of the things that it has been advertised to do, but I really feel that Pursuit trapping is its strong suit. After seeing this brought up in the chat by user boltsandbombers, I agree that Defog is not a great niche for Skunk. Defog Skuntank has an incredibly hard time keeping hazards off the field when it can't really beat any of the tier's premiere Stealth Rock setters. Despite this little bit of info, Defog Skuntank will probably remain the most popular set, because you know how getting info to the larger public goes.

Just my thoughts so far.

 

[NotNova]

Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Giga Drain
- Rain Dance

The Jolly Mexican is back in action! This is a mon that I feel appreciates the recent tier shifts a lot, since it's in that big bag of Pokemon that couldn't sweep as easily due to the presence of Fletchinder. It performs very well against offense and balance alike due to being criminally underprepared for, one Rain Dance potentially turning the tide of the game. It's also notable for being a Pokemon that hits the Torterra/Lanturn core, due to STAB Giga Drain nailing Lanturn. Even finding a setup opportunity isn't a problem, since it can take advantage of mons like Prinplup, the aforementioned Lanturn, bulky passer Combusken, defensive Mawile, and even Samurott by threatening a Giga Drain or the risk of a sweep if rain is up. It can either clean up weakened Pokemon, or punch huge holes with Hydro in the opposing team for teammates to win the game. This is a reason I consider Klinklang to be a terrific partner sweeper, as Ludicolo can wipe Water and Fire Pokemon which stop Klinklang's sweep.

While by no means the best mon (especially due to Hydro Miss :P), I think it has a real anti-meta potential that isn't recognized, as I don't see Ludicolo at all on the ladder. Below is a game I had versus Raseri in yesterday's official tournament, showing Ludicolo's sweeping potential and offensive presence. Give this dancing pineapple a try sometime :)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-255725088

 

[Disjunction]

Ok so I'm going to be the first one to say it here, but I don't think Defog Shiftry is really its best set. Defog Shift is great on offensive balance teams that want to maintain offensive pressure, don't rely on hazards, and need to sustain momentum throughout a game. However, on any team outside of that, I think Defog is subpar, especially on full offense teams that rely a lot on SR/Spikes to punish switch ins. Similarly, SD and NP shouldn't be the most defining Shiftry set either, as they have defining flaws that hold Shiftry back (SD struggling to get past bulky Poisons like Weezing/Garbodor/Skunk and NP losing TONS of power in its priority Sucker Punch vs faster threats it needs that power to beat or threaten). No, for sure the most defining Shiftry set in the meta is the mixed All Out Attacker set.

Shiftry @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Leaf Storm
- Extrasensory

I think what separates this Shiftry set from the others is it commits and supports Shiftry to what you'll more than likely be doing with it throughout a match: spamming Knock Off. That's really what Shiftry does best, honestly, and it's hard to stop it FROM doing that without Mega Audino, Skuntank, or a faster Dark-type resist, such as Primeape, Sawk, or Liepard. Plus, it's not like any of these can really switch in without fearing the strongest Knock Off in the tier. So Leaf Storm/Extrasensory help Shiftry keep knocking off items by handling most anything bulky enough to handle Shiftry's physical STAB's.

calcs

4 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garbodor: 161-192 (44.2 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Weezing: 185-218 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 56 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 175-208 (46.7 - 55.6%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO (only switches in once)
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 128 Def Hariyama: 118-140 (27.5 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (only switches in once since no AV)
4 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Extrasensory vs. 0 HP / 128 SpD Hariyama: 174-205 (40.5 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Combusken: 142-168 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Combusken: 117-138 (44.8 - 52.8%) -- 26.2% chance to 2HKO

Extrasensory is just strong enough to punish basically every bulky Poison-type, and most bulky Fighting-types can't safely switch in because they risk losing an item that they otherwise need to take Shiftry on 1v1. I haven't even experimented with any mixed investments yet because I'm pretty convinced you don't NEED SpA investment to make use of Leaf Storm and Extrasensory.

Of course, I'm not saying the other sets aren't usable because that's far from true. NP and SD, while hard to find set up opportunities with, are threatening sweepers once they get rolling and Defog Shiftry finds Defogging opportunities using the free turns from the momentum grabbing on offensive balance like it's nothing. I just think this Shiftry set is the most splashable on any team (outside of defensive squads of course) because Extrasesory and Leaf Storm give Shiftry the edge it needs to make its Knock Offs as hard to switch into as possible.

 

[Deej Dy]

Ok so I'm going to be the first one to say it here, but I don't think Defog Shiftry is really its best set. Defog Shift is great on offensive balance teams that want to maintain offensive pressure, don't rely on hazards, and need to sustain momentum throughout a game. However, on any team outside of that, I think Defog is subpar, especially on full offense teams that rely a lot on SR/Spikes to punish switch ins. Similarly, SD and NP shouldn't be the most defining Shiftry set either, as they have defining flaws that hold Shiftry back (SD struggling to get past bulky Poisons like Weezing/Garbodor/Skunk and NP losing TONS of power in its priority Sucker Punch vs faster threats it needs that power to beat or threaten). No, for sure the most defining Shiftry set in the meta is the mixed All Out Attacker set.

Shiftry @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Leaf Storm
- Extrasensory

I think what separates this Shiftry set from the others is it commits and supports Shiftry to what you'll more than likely be doing with it throughout a match: spamming Knock Off. That's really what Shiftry does best, honestly, and it's hard to stop it FROM doing that without Mega Audino, Skuntank, or a faster Dark-type resist, such as Primeape, Sawk, or Liepard. Plus, it's not like any of these can really switch in without fearing the strongest Knock Off in the tier. So Leaf Storm/Extrasensory help Shiftry keep knocking off items by handling most anything bulky enough to handle Shiftry's physical STAB's.

calcs

4 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garbodor: 161-192 (44.2 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Weezing: 185-218 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 56 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 175-208 (46.7 - 55.6%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO (only switches in once)
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 128 Def Hariyama: 118-140 (27.5 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (only switches in once since no AV)
4 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Extrasensory vs. 0 HP / 128 SpD Hariyama: 174-205 (40.5 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Combusken: 142-168 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Combusken: 117-138 (44.8 - 52.8%) -- 26.2% chance to 2HKO

Extrasensory is just strong enough to punish basically every bulky Poison-type, and most bulky Fighting-types can't safely switch in because they risk losing an item that they otherwise need to take Shiftry on 1v1. I haven't even experimented with any mixed investments yet because I'm pretty convinced you don't NEED SpA investment to make use of Leaf Storm and Extrasensory.

Of course, I'm not saying the other sets aren't usable because that's far from true. NP and SD, while hard to find set up opportunities with, are threatening sweepers once they get rolling and Defog Shiftry finds Defogging opportunities using the free turns from the momentum grabbing on offensive balance like it's nothing. I just think this Shiftry set is the most splashable on any team (outside of defensive squads of course) because Extrasesory and Leaf Storm give Shiftry the edge it needs to make its Knock Offs as hard to switch into as possible.

Interesting set, but I would argue that the SD mixed set is by far the best set. Swords dance + sucker punch priority is way too enticing to pass up and unlike Cacturne it has decent speed and access to Knock off. Leaf storm greatly out-damages extrasensory anyway on fighting types (Not Combusky I guess), so basically you're just hitting Weezing and Garbo.

I think the niche of semi fast SD sweeper with Priority to boot is just too good to pass up, but I agree with you in that I never really liked the nasty plot or defog sets either.

 

[Brawlfest]

Huntail @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Waterfall
- Coil
- Substitute
- Baton Pass

Tauros @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Naive Nature
- Rock Climb
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake / Fire Blast
- Iron Tail

I'm sorry but it's beginning to disgust me how effective this shit is in the current metagame. Huntail passing a single coil, which is relatively easy as it pretty much sets up on any physical attacker at least once, pretty much guarantees the game. Tauros with +1 attack under its belt needs no explanation, giving it pretty much an OHKO on every relevant pokemon there is, but furthermore it gets a disgusting +1 Defense and Accuracy. With the defense, it eats up literally every priority move on the planet (look below), taking a horrifically measly 35% maximum from Gurdurr's Mach Punch. With the Accuracy, you can even reliably run Iron Tail, taking a huge chunk off of stuff like Rhydon and Granbull, and especially with your extra bulk they dont come close to being actual checks. This core is honestly disgusting.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-257704923
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-257800024
replay of this core being disgusting

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Kangaskhan Fake Out vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 49-58 (16.8 - 19.9%) -- guaranteed 6HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Samurott Aqua Jet vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 55-66 (18.9 - 22.6%) -- possible 5HKO
228+ Atk Skuntank Sucker Punch vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 78-93 (26.8 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Gurdurr Mach Punch vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 86-104 (29.5 - 35.7%) -- 26.1% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Sucker Punch vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 109-130 (37.4 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Hitmonchan Mach Punch vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 156-186 (53.6 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[toshimelonhead]

Huntail @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Waterfall
- Coil
- Substitute
- Baton Pass

Tauros @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Naive Nature
- Rock Climb
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake / Fire Blast
- Iron Tail

I'm sorry but it's beginning to disgust me how effective this shit is in the current metagame. Huntail passing a single coil, which is relatively easy as it pretty much sets up on any physical attacker at least once, pretty much guarantees the game. Tauros with +1 attack under its belt needs no explanation, giving it pretty much an OHKO on every relevant pokemon there is, but furthermore it gets a disgusting +1 Defense and Accuracy. With the defense, it eats up literally every priority move on the planet (look below), taking a horrifically measly 35% maximum from Gurdurr's Mach Punch. With the Accuracy, you can even reliably run Iron Tail, taking a huge chunk off of stuff like Rhydon and Granbull, and especially with your extra bulk they dont come close to being actual checks. This core is honestly disgusting.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-257704923
replay of this core being disgusting

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Kangaskhan Fake Out vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 49-58 (16.8 - 19.9%) -- guaranteed 6HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Samurott Aqua Jet vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 55-66 (18.9 - 22.6%) -- possible 5HKO
228+ Atk Skuntank Sucker Punch vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 78-93 (26.8 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Gurdurr Mach Punch vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 86-104 (29.5 - 35.7%) -- 26.1% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Sucker Punch vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 109-130 (37.4 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Hitmonchan Mach Punch vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 156-186 (53.6 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So to be clear, the OU Baton Pass only banned Speed + other boost, not two other boosts of any type (in this case three). I know SmashPass was quickly banned from the tier, but what else has NU done to stop BP chains? Seems like Speed + boost isn't enough, maybe it's just BP without boosts that should be allowed to keep stuff like Musharna drypassing BP without stuff like CoilPass, CMPass, etc.

 

[Brawlfest]

So to be clear, the OU Baton Pass only banned Speed + other boost, not two other boosts of any type (in this case three). I know SmashPass was quickly banned from the tier, but what else has NU done to stop BP chains? Seems like Speed + boost isn't enough, maybe it's just BP without boosts that should be allowed to keep stuff like Musharna drypassing BP without stuff like CoilPass, CMPass, etc.