Okay, so… let’s talk about Wyrdeer. Sub Calm Mind and Grassy Seed sets are scary late game and it’s not really a difficult method of winning the game. I honestly don’t think a deer suspect would be absurd but I don’t know if it’s something council is considering. Deer has definitely seen plenty of high level usage in PULT, PUPL, and even Grand Slam by Giannis.
This post is meant to spark discussion!
Deer's fine. Point blank, period, full stop.
Now, that's obviously very uninteresting to read and also could be interpreted in bad faith, so lemme explain! Firstly, I'd like to comment on some points that others have brought up.
Editing in some thoughts about Wyrdeer: there isn’t a lot of variance in its sets since choice band scarf and specs all haven’t seen a lot of usage and physical sets in general aren’t very good. So it’s a relatively one dimensional mon. I think it’s not good per se but is slightly constraining on team building because it’s certainly something you need to keep in mind. Curious to see people’s thoughts.
I quite honestly think that you're kidding yourself if you use any version of Wyrdeer that
isn't double dance. Physical sets are, as drew says, pretty lackluster since you're likely going to be clicking a coverage move most of the time, lose out on the adaptable STAB that Tera Blast provides to special sets, and don't have access to the bonkers power that Stored Power gets after several boosts. It's just overall less effective and the job is done better by other mons. I think choice items specifically are
very, very bad on Wyrdeer. Normal being ineffective against Ghosts and Psychic being ineffective against Darks create very awkward situations, especially when we have very strong, relevant examples of both in the tier, as well as Ghost being a popular Tera typing thanks to Carbink. Indeedee has extremely similar problems, but these are somewhat helped due to Indeedee being faster, setting Psychic Terrain to make Sucker Punch ineffective, and also boosting its power significantly. Wyrdeer does not get
any of these benefits. So, yes, Wyrdeer is extremely one-dimensional. Not only is double dance really the only good set, but you will also know its ability as soon as it enters, since Intimidate and Frisk announce themselves on entry and if it isn't one of those two it has to be Sap Sipper. Also, Intimidate is really the only good one! Sap Sipper has some cool uses, but Intimidate is generally much better at creating setup opportunities. Also, all of the Grass-types in the tier, especially Leafeon and Flapple, have other moves that they would rather be hitting you with anyway OR are just getting bulldozed.
Wyrdeer is weak to dark type attacks, and I'm already running knock on Klawf (and Dartrix technically), sucker punch on Dug-A, and sucker punch + tspikes + taunt on Skuntank. The same dark-type counterplay I use against Haunter works against Wyrdeer.
If Wyrdeer is broken, I don't see it yet. Sure, it takes games, but you need to dedicate 2 team slots for Thwackey and Wyrdeer for it to work, and more to avoid common counterplay. It's not that hard to poison, taunt, or spam sucker punch against. I feel like tera can be brought up since Wyrdeer is probably one of the best mons to use tera blast on, but when the only instance of a tera wyrdeer I remember just got one-shot because it tera-d ground in front of a crabominable, I can't think of it as broken.
This post also has some excellent insights. Dark moves are incredibly common and very good in the tier right now. Sucker Punch, Dark Pulse, and Knock Off all give Wyrdeer a very tough time doing what it wants to do. As Lettuce brings up, a lot of this counterplay that is used as insurance against things like Haunter also happens to be very effective at stopping the deer. While I disagree that Thwackey is required (although it is an excellent teammate), it does also help me segway nicely into my next point: the item conundrum that Wyrdeer faces.
Double dance Wyrdeer has three realistic options for items: Heavy-Duty Boots, Grassy Seed, and Leftovers. Heavy-Duty Boots protects you from hazards, and in a tier where the removal is extremely poor, that's a very good thing to have. A mon like Wyrdeer especially appreciates this when its goal is to start setting up and run away with the game, since it needs to remain healthy to do so. Grassy Seed, when paired with support from Thwackey, gives Wyrdeer a defense boost that both boosts Stored Power and helps it to create more setup opportunities, but makes it vulnerable to hazards and unable to heal off any chip damage it may receive. And lastly, Leftovers provides a small amount of passive recovery, but no additional bulk and no protection from hazards.
My point is this: Wyrdeer is constantly forced into a rock-paper-scissors scenario on the item it wants to run, and since there are overlapping solutions amongst all three, it's not enough of a variable to stop any sort of reasonable counterplay. In addition, the presence or absence of Thwackey narrows this down even further, either confirming or denying that Wyrdeer is, in fact, holding a Grassy Seed.
And Lettuce is right, it's
not that hard to afflict it with status effects (Skuntank is already a decent check and can set TSpikes, which Wyrdeer
hates), Taunt it (All of the Taunt users are faster than Wyrdeer and not particularly scared of it, especially Alolan Persian), or Sucker Punch it. Encore is also excellent counterplay, and exists on a variety of already viable choices.
However, I think that most of all, my biggest point in the defense of Wyrdeer is this: It is not, at all, immediately threatening. It requires significant setup and investment to start blowing through things, and sometimes even needs help from Tera to muscle through things such as Alolan Persian that would otherwise check it handily. You realistically have to spend two turns before Stored Power is doing any actual ridiculous damage, and there are plenty of Dark-types and special walls that still aren't scared of you. Tera Fairy alleviates some of this, but requires you to save your Tera for Wyrdeer, which can make creating the needed opportunities to set up difficult. So, yes, Wyrdeer is capable of running away with games, but it only does so as a reward to proper play and positioning, much differently from past threats like Lilligant, Vivillon, or Oricorio.
Deer's cool, definitely not banworthy, and should stick around. Thanks for reading :)