Metagame np: Stage 1 - We Might Be Dead By Tomorrow

[Raseri]

Hi everyone, Combusken has been banned from NU. You can read about it here. This song is dedicated to out dear friends Spiritomb, Gurdurr, and Omastar. Who are all very close to going to RU by usage. Enjoy them while you can, because they might be dead by tomorrow (the end of the month).

This thread is used to discuss the current NU metagame. What works well? What is underrated/overrated. You can discuss almost anything related to NU in this thread!

 

[CanadianWifier]

New thread HYYYYPPEEE :D

So now that quick pass as a strategy in NU is severely hampered, what do you guys think will jump to the top?
I've seen some really good stall teams as of late, I know weather (specifically Sun and Rain) is super good right now, hazard-stack with Pawniard is a viable option now that Shiftry is no longer here, or do you think the tier will just remain fat as hell with Bulky Offense remaining superior?

 

[chimpact]

time for a real fire fighter to shine

 

[viol and bass]

One mon that I think has been largely overlooked is Bouffalant. Its Sub SD set functions sort of like Sub Bulk Up Braviary did last gen. It can sub up on the many defensive threats that can't break its sub and tear everything to pieces after an SD or two. Its spread is tailored to deal with whatever your team needs it to: defensive steelix's EQ for instance won't break its sub with a physically defensive spread, while with a specially defensive spread it can set up on Vileplume. It's just so fucking bulky for an offensive mon. It can use either use Soundproof to avoid Roar or Sap Sipper to switch in very easily on grass types.

And there are other very viable sets such as CB and Assault Vest (which makes it a counter to the likes of Vivillon and Lilligant).

Overall Bouffalant is just a really, really effective mon.

 

[Trollax:3]

Alleluiah.

Now the almighty sneasel can finally rise in popularity, as it now has the strongest STAB knock off (IIRC), has swords dance to raise its attack, and has surprisingly good bulk w/ eviolite (tho it still can't take a mach punch). It has 91 base defense and 121 special defense after the eviolite boost (uninvested ofc).

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

I can see SpikeStack dominating the tier. With pokes like Crustle, Ferroseed, Garbodor, Omastar and Qwilfish to choose from there's plenty of options, and without Shiftry Defog is pretty uncommon (Pelipper still the best imo). There's also Defiant Pawniard/Purugly who are pretty cool. Pretty much stack some big threats together like Gatr, Slurpuff, Kangaskhan, Klinklang etc to abuse the hazards and you have an easy ladderteam.

 

[CanadianWifier]

Now the almighty sneasel ... good bulk w/ eviolite

Two things I never thought I would see together in one thought.

Seriously, Life Orb is much more useful.

 

[Trollax:3]

Two things I never thought I would see together in one thought.

Seriously, Life Orb is much more useful.

Usually, yes, but eviolite is nice to live a weak hit or two so it can quickly SD and attempt to sweep. Life Orb is always better on a 4 attacks set though.

 

[Shuckleking87]

Usually, yes, but eviolite is nice to live a weak hit or two so it can quickly SD and attempt to sweep. Life Orb is always better on a 4 attacks set though.

Yeah I agree, sd eviolite > life orb sneasel. Can live a lot more hits with eviolite, especially resisting sucker punch, sd and do decent damage. Its more difficult for sneasel to live a hit and still dish out more than 1 attack with life orb and rocks damage

 

[Nozzle]

LETS SPAM ALL THE GOREBYSS

But seriously im loving this meta rn :)

 

[ryan]

Eviolite Sneasel isn't that unheard of.

Sneasel has 55/55/75 bulk, compared to Pawniard's 45/70/40 bulk. Technically, Sneasel's overall bulk is superior to Pawniard's, and while it doesn't have the typing to utilize it as well as Pawniard does, Eviolite can help it set up and live long enough to set up and start beating on shit.

I've also been using a really funny wallbreaker lately that is significantly better in practice than it sounds on paper. Your new god:

TropiOUs (Tropius) @ Grepa Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Natural Gift

I've been using SD Tropius on a Sticky Web team to surprisingly good results. It has the typing and coverage to absolutely fuck shit up, especially Viletoad cores. The funniest and best part about this set is Natural Gift. With Grepa Berry, Natural Gift is a 90 Base Power physical Flying-type attack, and with Harvest, it can continue to use it, making Natural Gift a fairly reliable STAB attack. Micle Berry allows for a 100 Base Power Flying-type attack, but because it triggers under 25%, it's really not worth using over Grepa Berry. Plus, it's hilarious when people do !data Grepa Berry, and it pops up with "No competitive use."

Really though, pretty much the only things that outright wall Tropius are Avalugg and Rotom-S. If it was either faster or stronger, it would be a really good Pokemon. But even with its middling stats, it's a fun gimmick that actually works.

 

[Temporelucis]

I can see SpikeStack dominating the tier. With pokes like Crustle, Ferroseed, Garbodor, Omastar and Qwilfish to choose from there's plenty of options, and without Shiftry Defog is pretty uncommon (Pelipper still the best imo). There's also Defiant Pawniard/Purugly who are pretty cool. Pretty much stack some big threats together like Gatr, Slurpuff, Kangaskhan, Klinklang etc to abuse the hazards and you have an easy ladderteam.

> My thoughts exactly

Hazards are really hard to remove and there aren't many reliable spinners at the moment, perhaps something will drop down and this issue will be solved. Defog is the best thing that gamefreak implemented that's relevant in the lower tiers imo

 

[chimpact]

One mon that I think has been largely overlooked is Bouffalant. Its Sub SD set functions sort of like Sub Bulk Up Braviary did last gen. It can sub up on the many defensive threats that can't break its sub and tear everything to pieces after an SD or two. Its spread is tailored to deal with whatever your team needs it to: defensive steelix's EQ for instance won't break its sub with a physically defensive spread, while with a specially defensive spread it can set up on Vileplume. It's just so fucking bulky for an offensive mon. It can use either use Soundproof to avoid Roar or Sap Sipper to switch in very easily on grass types.

And there are other very viable sets such as CB and Assault Vest (which makes it a counter to the likes of Vivillon and Lilligant).

Overall Bouffalant is just a really, really effective mon.

tauros / bouffalant combo one time

dual bull core y/n?

 

[Davon]

sceptile is really good right now. seeing as ferroseed is taking the role of bulky grass type and vileplume is slowly falling out of place, this leaves sub seed very viable, especially with the lack of spinners/defoggers and hazard stacking. not to mention sceptile handles sandslash and can 2hko cryogonal w/ focus blast if it tries to spin. sceptile is also a good offensive check to gatr which is running rampant w/ out shiftry. sub seed also laughs at stall which has been becoming popular.

Sceptile @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 36 Def / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Focus Blast
- Leech Seed
- Substitute

a replay showing how good sub seed is, especially when combined w/ hazards: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-150148147

 

[EonX]

Sticky Web in general looks pretty intriguiing right now considering Shiftry isn't around every corner to Defog it away. One Pokemon (and set) I'm really looking forward to using a bit more would be this one:

Pyroar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Hyper Voice
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power Grass
- Overheat

Pyroar has great potential as a wallbreaker post-Combusken. With high Speed and Special Attack as well as a solid STAB combination, it can be pretty difficult to find switch-ins for Pyroar. What's really cool is that Pyroar is one of the best offensive checks to Slurpuff in the tier while also trashing most bulky Grass-types. The latter happens to be very helpful for Feraligatr, especially SD sets since they have more issues with bulky Grasses due to the lack of Ice Punch. Also, Overheat is a major nuke. Really strong and very spammable if your opponent happens to not have Feraligatr or some other Fire resist that can set up. Otherwise, Fire Blast is still strong enough to get the job done on most occasions. Also, thanks to Pyroar's high Speed tier, it can also clean up with Hyper Voice (or Fire Blast, but shit accuracy) once faster mons and resists are gone.

 

[Jaguar360]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-150228642
Gonna take some time to bring up some sets. While this replay is low on the ladder, the ladder just restarted and the other team was kinda solid.
Heatmor @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 52 Atk / 252 SpA / 204 Spe
Mild/Rash Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Blast
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
Heatmor is a great wallbreaker and cleaner and was kind of the star of the show in the replay. Heatmor is a good switch in to other Fire types like Typhlosion thanks to Flash Fire and hits all relevant Fire types in the tier with one of the Dark type moves neutrally and for good damage. Fire Blast + Giga Drain covers all but Fire and Dragon types and hits relevant threats like Seismitoad, Feraligatr, Steelix, Ferroseed and such. Very good underused pokemon at the moment.
Gourgeist-Super @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Atk / 176 SpD / 52 Spe
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rock Slide
- Seed Bomb
Gourgeist-Super is pretty much a full stop to any Feraligatr set and can set up Subs and force switches on a good amount of the tier. The EVs outspeed univested base 60's (a bit more creep could be used to outspeed 0 speed Sandslash) and 176 SpD EVs jumps from 251 to 253 Sp. Def. Rock Slide punishes Fire type switch-ins, hitting most fairly hard bar Camerupt and maybe Torkoal.
Articuno @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Water Pulse/Hidden Power Ground|Fire|Fighting/U-turn
Offensive Articuno was showcased briefly in the replay and I think it is really great in the tier at the moment. While Articuno's stats scream defensive Pokemon, we often overlook the 85/95/85 offenses that it has and the rather decent movepool it has this generation. Articuno is one of the best, if not the best user of Freeze-Dry. Freeze-Dry is only resisted by Ice, Fire and Steel and hits the majority of the tier for neutral or super-effective damage, nabbing threats like Seismitoad, Feraligatr, Lanturn, Vileplume and more. Articuno needs only one more move to have perfect coverage across the tier + an incredibly strong, but somewhat inaccurate STAB move in Hurricane to complement it. Roost neutralizes Stealth Rock and Life Orb damage (and NU has great spinners and Defoggers like Sandslash, Armaldo, Swanna [<--use this more!], and Togetic). Try it out!

 

[Trollax:3]

Mesprit is really good in NU atm, practically being the clefable of NU. It has so many sets it can run, including, but not limited to, a 4 attacks set, a 3 attacks set with healing wish, a CM set, a scarf set, and a specs set. It also has a great movepool, ranging from stealth rock to boltbeam to u-turn. As a result of this, it can opt to either run psychic & boltbeam coverage or psychic, fire, and grass coverage. It's also very bulky with great 80/105/105 defenses while still having decent 105 offenses and 80 speed. That said, i find that Mesprit is rather weak if it's special attack isn't getting boosted by life orb or calm mind, so it relies more on its coverage to hit things for big damage.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Rain is really powerful atm, With both uxie and liepard to reliably set up rain, and good rain sweepers like Ludicolo, Qwilfish, omastar, Gatr and lanturn.

People say that Magmortar has no switchins, have you tried Specs Omastar in rain? Hydropump OHKOs Everyrhing that does not resist it. Hell even resists get pooped on (does 65% to vileplume)

 

[Karane]

Weather teams were so rampant today its not even funny. Many people using sun because there are many things stopping rain (dragalge, AV hariyama, Mantine, Ferroseed, Cryo). Especially after the departure of best priority core in Spiritomb and Gurdurr. The sheer HO nature of weather makes it so fun and easy and super effective right now. Reached #3 with the alt Beyondblue and going.

 

[CanadianWifier]

..It has so many sets it can run, such as a 4 attacks set, a 3 attacks set with healing wish, a CM set, a scarf set, and a specs set.

No one ever mentions the really sick Banded set Mesprit can run :[

Mesprit @ Choice Band
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off
- Fire Punch / Trick
- U-turn

This is is capable of dealing copious amounts of damage to anything trying to predict around a CM set, or a lead support set. The sheer unpredictability of its base 105 Attack definitely helps to make this thing dangerous, as no one expects it for whatever reason :\ First two moves are self-explanatory; you can run Fire Punch if you want to kill Ferroseed+Steelix, or Trick if you want to cripple. All in all, a very fun set that deserves more recognition n_n

 

[Trollax:3]

No one ever mentions the really sick Banded set Mesprit can run :[

Mesprit @ Choice Band
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off
- Fire Punch / Trick
- U-turn

This is is capable of dealing copious amounts of damage to anything trying to predict around a CM set, or a lead support set. The sheer unpredictability of its base 105 Attack definitely helps to make this thing dangerous, as no one expects it for whatever reason :\ First two moves are self-explanatory; you can run Fire Punch if you want to kill Ferroseed+Steelix, or Trick if you want to cripple. All in all, a very fun set that deserves more recognition n_n

Indeed, banded mesprit can be very unpredictable and powerful. Mesprit has such a wide movepool and such well-rounded stats it can do almost anything. I meant that to come off as a "including, but not limited to" statement; editing.

 

[Ares]

So with one of the fastest defoggers gone to RU (Shiftry) Memento Uxie with dual screens has just gotten that much better. Now instead of getting the screens defogged in your face you can memento and go into your sweeper that much easier.
Uxie @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 224 HP / 80 Def / 204 SpD
Bold Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- U-turn
- Memento

I have a weird EV spread that I forgot what it helped stop but anyways, thats the best set for it. Uturn allows for Uxie to set up screens at least twice in the match and keep momentum up by Uturning out.

 

[Shuckleking87]

So with one of the fastest defoggers gone to RU (Shiftry) Memento Uxie with dual screens has just gotten that much better. Now instead of getting the screens defogged in your face you can memento and go into your sweeper that much easier.
Uxie @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 224 HP / 80 Def / 204 SpD
Bold Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- U-turn
- Memento

I have a weird EV spread that I forgot what it helped stop but anyways, thats the best set for it. Uturn allows for Uxie to set up screens at least twice in the match and keep momentum up by Uturning out.

Makes you taunt bait, but with hazard support, yawn instead of uturn works as well. Either forces switches or gets a poke asleep

 

[Jaguar360]

Like I said before, use Swanna for good Defog support!
Swanna @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane/Air Slash/Ice Beam
- Scald
- Defog
- Roost
It is, without a doubt, the best offensive Defogger in the tier now, being fairly quick at 98 speed, having reliable recovery and being immune to Sticky Web and Spikes. Defiant Pokemon can't really switch into Swanna safely since Scald can burn Pawniard and Primeape is OHKOed by Hurricane or Air Slash. Water/Flying and Water/Ice is pretty good coverage with only two moves as well. Also very good on or facing rain teams. Definitely a very underrated NU Pokemon. Don't know how this only has less than 2% usage.

 

[Swagalge]

I've also been using a really funny wallbreaker lately that is significantly better in practice than it sounds on paper. Your new god:

TropiOUs (Tropius) @ Grepa Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Natural Gift

I've been using SD Tropius on a Sticky Web team to surprisingly good results. It has the typing and coverage to absolutely fuck shit up, especially Viletoad cores. The funniest and best part about this set is Natural Gift. With Grepa Berry, Natural Gift is a 90 Base Power physical Flying-type attack, and with Harvest, it can continue to use it, making Natural Gift a fairly reliable STAB attack. Micle Berry allows for a 100 Base Power Flying-type attack, but because it triggers under 25%, it's really not worth using over Grepa Berry. Plus, it's hilarious when people do !data Grepa Berry, and it pops up with "No competitive use."

Really though, pretty much the only things that outright wall Tropius are Avalugg and Rotom-S. If it was either faster or stronger, it would be a really good Pokemon. But even with its middling stats, it's a fun gimmick that actually works.

I've been using a set similar to this, if you use lum berry you get a flying type 80BP and it also means you get to heal if you get burnt or something, it's a very fun set especially if they are expecting subseed.