View attachment 304537
Really hoped we could have got at least one new thing.... at least screens is less annoying now with the best setter leaving the tier
This is also true, though I'm unsure if going a full three Status moves when one of them isn't Leech Seed is worth it even with Prankster and even if Moonblast is reasonable solo coverage due to it being somewhat overpowered. (Seriously, why is it a 90 BP attack? And why it one with a 30% chance of dropping Special Attack while still having 100% accuracy?)Whimsibro can just Prankster Defog after Regileki goes boom to end hazards. Or Encore during screens to stop them setting up both (go Sub -> Encore -> Defog)
Combined usage for UU (1630 stats)
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1 | Salamence | 20.839% |
| 2 | Krookodile | 20.390% |
| 3 | Kommo-o | 20.249% |
| 4 | Zeraora | 19.524% |
| 5 | Scizor | 18.484% |
| 6 | Celesteela | 18.018% |
| 7 | Blaziken | 17.633% |
| 8 | Regieleki | 17.626% |
| 9 | Latias | 17.603% |
| 10 | Azumarill | 17.193% |
| 11 | Nidoqueen | 14.779% |
| 12 | Tangrowth | 14.691% |
| 13 | Jirachi | 13.880% |
| 14 | Victini | 13.647% |
| 15 | Chansey | 12.659% |
| 16 | Mew | 12.129% |
| 17 | Slowking | 11.855% |
| 18 | Skarmory | 11.451% |
| 19 | Tapu Bulu | 11.339% |
| 20 | Amoonguss | 11.067% |
| 21 | Rotom-Heat | 10.282% |
| 22 | Mamoswine | 9.942% |
| 23 | Bisharp | 9.524% |
| 24 | Rotom-Wash | 8.869% |
| 25 | Hatterene | 8.633% |
| 26 | Moltres-Galar | 8.360% |
| 27 | Gyarados | 8.244% |
| 28 | Conkeldurr | 7.766% |
| 29 | Thundurus-Therian | 7.751% |
| 30 | Terrakion | 7.710% |
| 31 | Lycanroc-Dusk | 7.046% |
| 32 | Crawdaunt | 6.660% |
| 33 | Nihilego | 6.515% |
| 34 | Keldeo | 6.269% |
| 35 | Alakazam | 6.265% |
| 36 | Ninetales-Alola | 6.253% |
| 37 | Primarina | 6.127% |
| 38 | Azelf | 5.601% |
| 39 | Tentacruel | 5.373% |
| 40 | Grimmsnarl | 5.160% |
| 41 | Kyurem | 5.134% |
| 42 | Quagsire | 4.839% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 19 | Latias | 8.472% |
| 20 | Latias | 10.002% |
| 9 | Latias | 17.603% |
This paragraph feels really off to me. The mons listed aren't even ones that we're particularly starved for switchins for besides Nidoqueen, which is quite easy to offensively pressure, and Victini, which will always be obnoxious to switch into regardless of whether or not Latias is gone (it gets U-turned on anyway). Keldeo is not hard to find answers or checks for- off the top of my head I can name Amoonguss, (AV) Tangrowth, Spdef Mew (which is even mentioned in this post), Primarina, Salamence, Tentacruel, Bulu, and probably more that I'm forgetting. You can argue that SubCM Keld can muscle past some of these, but I find it incredibly matchup fishy and Slowking teams (the main archetype that SubCM Keld is supposed to prey on) will be able to naturally fit other answers either way. Nihilego isn't very common atm and with Scizor being as good as it is isn't hard to offensively pressure despite the 103 Speed. As someone who doesn't build with Lati too often I haven't found Nihilego to be hard to defensively answer at all, or even offensively pressure. It's also pretty rare so I don't get why its mentioned here at all over something else, but that's not quite the point here.I trully think Latias is more than just an overbearing threat but definitively a staple we need in this tier as it doesn't only brings offensive pressure but also defensive prowess that a lot of teams need. Being able to check with Recover/Roost things like Nidoqueen, Special Victini, Keldeo or Nihilego is really appreciated since we do not have as much defensive answers as in SM. Having offensive Pokemon which also provide solid defensive backbones to team is a must have in my opinion in SS Metagame and that's also why I think Latias is healthy for the tier.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough because I feel like you missed my point which was the following : Latias can act as both an offensive and a defensive Pokemon thanks to its bulk, typing, access to ways to heal itself and large movepool. I never said that the mentionned Pokemon are hard to cover or whatever else. I just said that having offensive Pokemon which can also cover defensively other threats is always an appreciated thing in the current metagame since we don't have as much defensive staples than in SM, nothing more, nothing less. Yeah Keldeo has defensive answers like the many Grass-types we have but having a Pokemon which can switch on it and pressure in an offensive way the opponent is in my opinion way more enjoyable than an Amoonguss or a Tangrowth which are overall quite passive in comparison to the pressure that Latias can put on foes. Yeah Spore, Sleep Powder, Knock Off, Sludge Bomb etc.. are annoying but not as dangerous as a DM / Psychic etc.. I also never said that Latias was our only offensive Pokemon with defensive utility but it's still one of the best in this case. I just quoted some examples of Pokemon that Latias can pivot into. I also could have mentionned a Choice Lock Krookodile / defensive Kommo-o or Skarmory.This paragraph feels really off to me. The mons listed aren't even ones that we're particularly starved for switchins for besides Nidoqueen, which is quite easy to offensively pressure, and Victini, which will always be obnoxious to switch into regardless of whether or not Latias is gone (it gets U-turned on anyway). Keldeo is not hard to find answers or checks for- off the top of my head I can name Amoonguss, (AV) Tangrowth, Spdef Mew (which is even mentioned in this post), Primarina, Salamence, Tentacruel, Bulu, and probably more that I'm forgetting. You can argue that SubCM Keld can muscle past some of these, but I find it incredibly matchup fishy and Slowking teams (the main archetype that SubCM Keld is supposed to prey on) will be able to naturally fit other answers either way. Nihilego isn't very common atm and with Scizor being as good as it is isn't hard to offensively pressure despite the 103 Speed. As someone who doesn't build with Lati too often I haven't found Nihilego to be hard to defensively answer at all, or even offensively pressure. It's also pretty rare so I don't get why its mentioned here at all over something else, but that's not quite the point here.
It's also not like we don't have other offensive Pokemon that don't provide defensive utility- stuff like Krookodile, Kommo-o, Salamence, Scizor, and Tapu Bulu are all examples of offensive mons that provide good utility defensively, and that's just the ones I can name off the top of my head. While its true that Latias' utility is hard to match, it's not like Latias leaving the tier will completely ruin the meta or anything (Terrakion becomes more broken but lol).
While I am currently neutral on how I feel about Latias, the points that were brought up here really rubbed me the wrong way. This response is not meant to be aggressive- if you think Latias is not broken, then by all means feel free to keep that opinion, I just didn't like the reasoning here and I think it should be avoided if possible.
I'm not interested on replying on other stuff/don't have a strong opinion on some of them, but perish trap azu is something i've tried out a fair bit and did some calcs on, so i feel like i should talk a bit about it. First of all, i wouldn't say that "it's back". The reason why this set is making a slow rise is because of how a lot of team structures and archetypes are overrelying on their grass types to check multiple threats and doing other stuff at the same time too. Zeraora for example is an extremely scary mon (and i'll die to this hill), and most people tend to use scarf krooks+grass type or something like mence/scizor to check it once you get the correct scouts off. After all, perishtrap azumarill is just another way to get rid of the sitting plants to make the other threats on the team going insane. It's a way to cheat through them without overwhelming them, which is why i think the set is overall cool, but it won't do much more than that(outside of a possible steela trap maybe?). I'd say calling it a Latias check is a bit of a lie but i can see azu scaring it off the field. The reason i decided to make this follow up post is because i think the set you posted is not nearly as close as the best you can get. Since i already used it twice in tour games (1st being in uu snake but the set didn't get showcased and i was against a RU team; 2nd in ltpl, where the set gets it's showcase off) I don't have any issue with posting here the set i decided to use. I tried to think and calc a bit of different scenarios while theorycrafting it. Kebia is a way to get the trap off on amoonguss/tangrowth 100% of the time from full, because even crits/extremely bad rng shouldn't be able to fuck with it. Leftovers is only worth if you dump some into def/outspeed steela, so you can get a trap off on it too in case, but it won't be too useful for the other mons. The reason why i decided to go with chestoresto is because since you don't technically need leftovers to get traps off without an extremely bad rng, and you're not gonna do much while being slept at around 50%, being awake makes you not being a completely dead slot. You can still get a perish song off on a setupping threat which can save the day or be cool in some situations. The speed's reason is to speedcheck things that try to be faster than non-negative nature tangrowth, you don't really lose much from those 20 evs and you can get someone running racecar tangrowth off guard too.
PerishTrap Azumarill is back guys.. It's a pretty underrated set of Azumarill and while it's definitively not as good as CB or Belly Drum, it can be pretty nasty when it's paired with things like Zeraora. Azumarill can indeed trap with ease things like Tapu Bulu, Amoonguss or Tangrowth for its mate which is really nice. On the other hand, max SpD Azumarill is actually not bad to check Latias. It's not as good as something like Slowking which has Slack Off and Regenerator and overall a better special bulk but it's still a nice Pokemon to play with.Azumarill @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Protect
- Perish Song
- Whirlpool