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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
- Start date
- Status
I'm sad they're gone, for the sole reason that I never faced a masterfully used one of either and thus never actually had significant issues with either of them. It means I can't abuse them.
That's a terrible reason to be sad over a ban, but I'm not gonna lie to you guys.
edit: fuck yeah, Zapdos is going OU. T-rus didn't outclass but soooo many people thought it did. :\
Also, how do people deal with Offensive QD Volcarona under the Sun? There's Scarfers, but there's no way to wall it whatsoever. The only things that avoid a 2HKO are Chansey, Blissey, and Snorlax when it's at +1, and all three of them have to run totally specially defensive EV spreads! Okay, so there's probably more, but I'm not exaggerating by that much. You basically can't defensively beat Volcarona in Sun. It probably screws with weatherless defense as much as Excadrill screwed with weatherless offense. In the past I've just dealt with it by running Scarf Landorus/Terrakion, or running weather myself, but...
That's a terrible reason to be sad over a ban, but I'm not gonna lie to you guys.
edit: fuck yeah, Zapdos is going OU. T-rus didn't outclass but soooo many people thought it did. :\
Also, how do people deal with Offensive QD Volcarona under the Sun? There's Scarfers, but there's no way to wall it whatsoever. The only things that avoid a 2HKO are Chansey, Blissey, and Snorlax when it's at +1, and all three of them have to run totally specially defensive EV spreads! Okay, so there's probably more, but I'm not exaggerating by that much. You basically can't defensively beat Volcarona in Sun. It probably screws with weatherless defense as much as Excadrill screwed with weatherless offense. In the past I've just dealt with it by running Scarf Landorus/Terrakion, or running weather myself, but...
I feel like both these bans were bad decisions resulting from a large voter pool.
Excadrill was truly the only pokemon keeping Sandstorm's usage high, since it, along with Landorus, were the only significant abusers. Therefore, Sandstorm will probably follow a sharp declivity.
This, in effect, will also increase the usage of Rain, whether offense or stall. Rain has barely taken a hit in terms of viability since there are many Thunder abusers to take Thundurus' place. It still has Hurricane abusers, Tentacruel as a decent spinner, and boosted water attacks.
If these bans are not rescinded by the next round, people should begin to question whether weather is balanced anymore.
Excadrill was truly the only pokemon keeping Sandstorm's usage high, since it, along with Landorus, were the only significant abusers. Therefore, Sandstorm will probably follow a sharp declivity.
This, in effect, will also increase the usage of Rain, whether offense or stall. Rain has barely taken a hit in terms of viability since there are many Thunder abusers to take Thundurus' place. It still has Hurricane abusers, Tentacruel as a decent spinner, and boosted water attacks.
If these bans are not rescinded by the next round, people should begin to question whether weather is balanced anymore.
Simply, by not letting him set up.
Stealth Rock is 50% off. Spikes is up to another 25%. Volcarona could be coming in on 25% HP, and under Toxic Status to boot.
Then there's any damage he takes switching in, and as he sets up.
Even then, you can use Toxic or Thunder Wave as he sets up, so he can be revenged.
Volcarona is a high-risk high-reward pokemon. It's hard to get in safe, let alone set up, but if it does...
Also, it's a lot easier to handle without the Sun up. If you're that scared, run Politoad/Hippowdon/Tyranitar/Abomasnow/Weather Change Move
Nelson
Young, Wild & Free
Excadrill neded to be ban as any pokemon could revenge killed it, that's a fact.
Now, there are still some very good sand abusers as terrakion or landorus and ttar still remains the best check to lati@s so no, don't worry, sand users will still be high.
Now, i believe that a pokemon which can 2HKO all the pokemons at +2 shoudn't be allowd, so yeah the voters has voted very well.
Thx !
Now, there are still some very good sand abusers as terrakion or landorus and ttar still remains the best check to lati@s so no, don't worry, sand users will still be high.
Now, i believe that a pokemon which can 2HKO all the pokemons at +2 shoudn't be allowd, so yeah the voters has voted very well.
Thx !
Snorlax destroys Volcarona. Never had any issues with it, and I run a Sun team myself. I think a +1 did like 30-40% or so, And Snorlax OHKO's with Rock Slide. My spread was 4/252 Hp/Sp.Def and 252 Adamant in attack. Took out so many of the threats that plague most teams. A attack set of Return/Ice Punch/Rock Slide/Pursuit works really well, though you can switch Rock Slide for Earthquake, as Return is a clean 2HKO against Volcarona without rocks, and a OHKO with.
Calcs:
252 Atk Choice Band Snorlax Return vs 252 HP/252 Def Volcarona: 67.38% - 79.41%
252 Atk Choice Band Snorlax Rock Slide vs 252 HP/252 Def Volcarona: 132.62% - 156.15%
252 Atk Choice Band Snorlax Return vs 0 HP/0 Def Volcarona: 111.25% - 131.19%
252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Volcarona Fire Blast vs 4 HP/252 SpDef Snorlax: 46.97% - 55.41% (In Sun)
252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Volcarona Fire Blast vs 4 HP/252 SpDef Snorlax: 31.82% - 37.23%
0 +1 SpAtk Volcarona Fire Blast vs 4 HP/252 SpDef Snorlax: 33.12% - 38.96% (In Sun)
0 +1 SpAtk Volcarona Fire Blast vs 4 HP/252 SpDef Snorlax: 22.08% - 26.19%
0 +1 SpAtk Volcarona Bug Buzz vs 4 HP/252 SpDef Snorlax: 33.12% - 39.18%
252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Volcarona Bug Buzz vs 4 HP/252 SpDef Snorlax: 47.4% - 55.84%
As you can see Snorlax wins. Switch in on the QD, and then fire off your move. Even the most offensive Volcarona can barely 2HKO you, and not even all the time, while you OHKO in return.
Conkeldurr requires a Guts boost or CB. Azumarill requires CB, but that's not much of an issue because it's Azumarill's best set.
Both are also blatently obvious moves, that Excadrill will just switch out of.
They also both require sacrifices to get in safe.
You can't really predict the outcome of this round without playing the new round. With that being said, I still think tyranitar itself is a great Pokemon in the metagame. It checks many special threats and can pursuit-trap the likes of latios and latias among many threats. Excadrill was more or less a bonus on sandstorm teams and it wouldn't make the usage decline sharply. There are still viable sweepers such as terakion and landorus.
I'm glad to see how these results turned out, especially the Excadrill ban.
Excadrill was the single most prohibitive influence on team building, so I'm glad I get to finally build an offensive team without having to worry about Excadrill. Not having to worry about Thundurus is also great, since I don't like getting priority T-Waved.
I think we can all agree that it's much easier to deal with Stoutland than it is to deal with Excadrill.
Excadrill was the single most prohibitive influence on team building, so I'm glad I get to finally build an offensive team without having to worry about Excadrill. Not having to worry about Thundurus is also great, since I don't like getting priority T-Waved.
I think we can all agree that it's much easier to deal with Stoutland than it is to deal with Excadrill.
What about changing the weather. If it's running the SD set, you could bring in your weather inducer on the turn he SDs, then kill it unless he switches. (unless your have Abomasnow, in which case your dead. But who runs hail?)
Ninetails cannot switch in in the first place.
Politoad is slower.
Sand won't change the weather.
Hail sucks.
Also, there's a reason why OU is dubbed weather wars. Generally, Excadrill makes his move when the weather cannot be changed.
Yeah and if you predict wrong Toed and Tales get almost KOed by EQ.
Excadrill had plenty of checks but no real counters bar Gliscor. Was it broken? Maybe not as much as i would like to believe but it did need to go to make Gen 5 a better metagame. Besides, we can always re-nominate it OU once Grey or w/e comes out. Who knows, by then Techniloom and friends might be enough to keep him from Ubers.
Yeah.
I already am excited to use things like scarf terra and scarf lando extensively
I'm glad to see a lot of scarfers brought back, but I'm just glad that the 5th gen metagame is starting to look stable, instead of some kind of mess that people apparently called a metagame.
Why would anyone SD and go for a sweep with Excadrill if the opponent's weather inducer is still alive? This doesn't apply to just Ninetales, it applies to Politoed as well.
I can see Weavile and Mamoswine seeing a spike in usage because drought + chlorophyll teams will probably be used a lot more.
Weavile and Mamoswine can't exactly switch in on Venusaur, but both can deal with it with Ice Shard.
Have to say that I am quite disappointed with the Excadrill ban. I never found it to be a problem, and I think he really helped make the 5th gen metagame what it was. That being said, if people with start bitching less about weather because he is gone, then it will be a fair trade off.
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