Oh OF COURSEP2 traces no guard and has zap cannon!!! :O
Make sure its specsOh OF COURSE
Why hasn't anyone thought of this before!? Mega Pidgeot isn't broken! Pory2 hard counters it!
GENIUS
I'm building around that now
To be fair, the guy you played was... odd to say the least and should have won with Aero but the confusehax in Hydreigon is what really shows Pidgeot's brokenness.Alright, so regarding Pidgeot.
I still don't think in and of itself it's worthy of a ban. It's a very fast, hard-hitting mon like Aerodactyl or Salamence. However, with a single move, it can seriously make or break a game. Hurricane spam is the only thing that really makes it this dangerous, but to be completely honest, that's all it needs. I run Heat Wave on my bird, but it sees such little use because it hits zero targets anyways. Hurricane spam is really just broken.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-242525550
This is what happens when bad connection and battles at three in the morning connect.
(don't tell me it's a shitty game, focus on that Pidge singlehandedly won that match)
So how do you prepare for the haxxing God? Packing a Persim Berry Rotom-Heat?The annoying thing about this whole concept is that Pidgeot does ONE thing. All of its sets do the exact same thing regardless of what moves they're carrying. And this one thing that it does has very usable and good counters. This isn't Victini or Hawlucha or even Staraptor where nothing can stop it more than once. So long as you actually prepare for it Pidgeot isn't getting to win the game. It's necessary to prepare for threats at the top of the food chain, nothing is wrong with that. If Pidgeot ends up leaving then Heracross and co. will likely become the new thing that "makes balance unplayable". Sure, if you don't prepare for the stuff that's really good then no duh you're going to get run over when you face it. That's why people use it. Does that mean it's inherently broken? Hell no. Metagames centralize around top tier threats and if you fail to prepare for them then you deserve to get left behind, simple as that.
On balance bulkier builds you need to bring a pokemon that is capable of resisting its STAB hurricane and heat wave like Empoleon, Aeroadactyl, Rotom-H etc. Switching over to offense, the most common check is roost Mega Aerodactyl, which can be beaten via confusion hax. Other options I've used to try and beat Pidgeot on offense are thunderbolt Azelf has a good chance to ohko Pidgeot before it megas with a life orb, and the unconventional scarf Heliolisk. The main problem with most of Pidgeot's chekcs is that they either don't have reliable recovery, or if rocks are on the field and Pidgeot gets the confusion, then one hit and all of a sudden Pidgeot just beat one of its checks. The confusion chance is really what puts Pidgeot over the top. Being able to beat blanket checks like Vaporeon and Florges and being able to punish checks that can only take a few hurricanes just makes Pidgeot so abusable.So how do you prepare for the haxxing God? Packing a Persim Berry Rotom-Heat?
they all carry roostPersonally, I have faster mons or things with strong priority that can force some switches, and it takes 25% from hazards so things like a Banded Entei can put it in bad range if it doesn't carry roost/predict damage.
We all have, I've been memed by scarf offensive tenta.I've seen some weird shit in low-ladder.
Yeah I have no idea how anyone could say Mega Pidgeot is okOn balance bulkier builds you need to bring a pokemon that is capable of resisting its STAB hurricane and heat wave like Empoleon, Aeroadactyl, Rotom-H etc. Switching over to offense, the most common check is roost Mega Aerodactyl, which can be beaten via confusion hax. Other options I've used to try and beat Pidgeot on offense are thunderbolt Azelf has a good chance to ohko Pidgeot before it megas with a life orb, and the unconventional scarf Heliolisk. The main problem with most of Pidgeot's chekcs is that they either don't have reliable recovery, or if rocks are on the field and Pidgeot gets the confusion, then one hit and all of a sudden Pidgeot just beat one of its checks. The confusion chance is really what puts Pidgeot over the top. Being able to beat blanket checks like Vaporeon and Florges and being able to punish checks that can only take a few hurricanes just makes Pidgeot so abusable.
First I disagree that Heracross and co would make balance unplayable of Pidgeot left since nobody complained about him before Pidgeot was the threat it is now, but I digress. You mention that there are usable counters to Pidgeot, and in theory, I would agree. However, as mentioned before, the confusion really puts it over the top. You are right that Pidgeot literally only spams Hurricane, which isn't that broken if not for confusion. I wish I saved a replay, but Pidgeot managed to take down the supposed best Pidgeot counter in Mega Aero with confusion. Rocks and Toxic put Pidgeot at 70%, and I switched in Aero to "counter" pidgeot but of course it gets confused. With rocks my Aero is now at something like 48%. I click pursuit on te obvious switch but I hit myself in confusion and am now at like 30% against a Suicune. In one turn Pidgeot managed to cripple its check and now I had nothing to switch in on Hurricane. I also lost that game because my +2 Infernape could not sweep as Pidgeot was able to revenge it. Had it been hit with Pursuit, it would be in KO range for Stealth Rock but it wasn't.The annoying thing about this whole concept is that Pidgeot does ONE thing. All of its sets do the exact same thing regardless of what moves they're carrying. And this one thing that it does has very usable and good counters. This isn't Victini or Hawlucha or even Staraptor where nothing can stop it more than once. So long as you actually prepare for it Pidgeot isn't getting to win the game. It's necessary to prepare for threats at the top of the food chain, nothing is wrong with that. If Pidgeot ends up leaving then Heracross and co. will likely become the new thing that "makes balance unplayable". Sure, if you don't prepare for the stuff that's really good then no duh you're going to get run over when you face it. That's why people use it. Does that mean it's inherently broken? Hell no. Metagames centralize around top tier threats and if you fail to prepare for them then you deserve to get left behind, simple as that.
First of all, Aero isn't the best counter to Pidgeot, Empoleon is. Second, You can get boned by hax by anything, it isn't exclusive to Pidgeot. For example, Keldeo in OUs number one counter is Latias/Latios. You hardly see Keldeo click anything other than Scald until Lati is burned and then it can either go with some Sub CM shenanigans or just try to kill it with Secret Sword. Other examples would be something like Suicune spamming Scald until its normal checks are weakened. Next, in the scenario you described above it is entirely possible to "outplay the hax" that occurred. More often than not, by the time you need to check Pidgeot a second time you have something that has outlived its usefulness and you can get rid of it. Sack something so you don't have to risk Pidgeot being "bullshit" and then the Pursuit is risk free and Aerodactyl can continue being very good like it always is. If you leave yourself vulnerable to getting haxed then you can't complain. Furthermore, you also can certainly see Aero muscle past some of its normal counters like Suicune through the use of Hone Claws and dodging a Scald Burn. Your point about preparing in the "best possible way" is kind of silly as well since Aerodactyl is far from a sturdy check. That sort of preparation is similar to using Banded Tyrantrum to check Crocune. Sure if you can dodge the burn then good job, but a burn spells that you're up shit creek without a paddle. Also, your whole Hydrei isn't flinching past Florges is exactly the same thing with Empoleon and Pidgeot. There is no fucking way that Empo is getting broken by Pidgeot on its own. It does like 15-18% or something like that with Hurricane and Heat Wave does like 4% more. Counters exist for defensive teams and it's fairly simple to pressure it offensively.First I disagree that Heracross and co would make balance unplayable of Pidgeot left since nobody complained about him before Pidgeot was the threat it is now, but I digress. You mention that there are usable counters to Pidgeot, and in theory, I would agree. However, as mentioned before, the confusion really puts it over the top. You are right that Pidgeot literally only spams Hurricane, which isn't that broken if not for confusion. I wish I saved a replay, but Pidgeot managed to take down the supposed best Pidgeot counter in Mega Aero with confusion. Rocks and Toxic put Pidgeot at 70%, and I switched in Aero to "counter" pidgeot but of course it gets confused. With rocks my Aero is now at something like 48%. I click pursuit on te obvious switch but I hit myself in confusion and am now at like 30% against a Suicune. In one turn Pidgeot managed to cripple its check and now I had nothing to switch in on Hurricane. I also lost that game because my +2 Infernape could not sweep as Pidgeot was able to revenge it. Had it been hit with Pursuit, it would be in KO range for Stealth Rock but it wasn't.
Yes you have to prepare for top tier threats, but in Pidgeot's case you could prepare in the best way you can and still get boned by hax. The only mons that can take multiple Hurricanes and hit itself in confusion are Emp, Blissey (set up bait without Twave), and specially defensive P2 to an extent since no Lefties hurt so you are really limited in options. Other stuff like Florges, Snorlax, Umbreon etc take a good chunk from Hurricane and are as good as dead if they hit themselves in confusion.
You will never see Aero muscling past Swampert unless it's nearly dead, even if Stone Edge crits. Hydreigon is not gonna hax itself past Florges via Dark Pulse flinches. Top tier threats must be prepared for, but Pidgeot makes itself stand out because unless you form a team of 6 Pidgeot checks, you could
prepare for it and still get bodied by it by sheer luck
Except this isn't Scald. Hurricane has a 110 base power matched by 135 base special attack. This is no accident. W/ No Guard, this turns the game skilless. Mega Pidgeot has traits that simply outshine the capacitites of lesser used UU mons (and hahaha they're lesser used due to Mega Pidgeot), and this severely limits the sheer viability of mons. Hell, every person can fit a Mega-Pidgeot on their team, and they'd be better for it. The diversity of being able to fit a flying type in this tier is insane, and EVERY team is boosted by this Pokemon's capability of controlling the rhythm of the match.First of all, Aero isn't the best counter to Pidgeot, Empoleon is. Second, You can get boned by hax by anything, it isn't exclusive to Pidgeot. For example, Keldeo in OUs number one counter is Latias/Latios. You hardly see Keldeo click anything other than Scald until Lati is burned and then it can either go with some Sub CM shenanigans or just try to kill it with Secret Sword. Other examples would be something like Suicune spamming Scald until its normal checks are weakened. Next, in the scenario you described above it is entirely possible to "outplay the hax" that occurred. More often than not, by the time you need to check Pidgeot a second time you have something that has outlived its usefulness and you can get rid of it. Sack something so you don't have to risk Pidgeot being "bullshit" and then the Pursuit is risk free and Aerodactyl can continue being very good like it always is. If you leave yourself vulnerable to getting haxed then you can't complain. Furthermore, you also can certainly see Aero muscle past some of its normal counters like Suicune through the use of Hone Claws and dodging a Scald Burn. Your point about preparing in the "best possible way" is kind of silly as well since Aerodactyl is far from a sturdy check. That sort of preparation is similar to using Banded Tyrantrum to check Crocune. Sure if you can dodge the burn then good job, but a burn spells that you're up shit creek without a paddle. Also, your whole Hydrei isn't flinching past Florges is exactly the same thing with Empoleon and Pidgeot. There is no fucking way that Empo is getting broken by Pidgeot on its own. It does like 15-18% or something like that with Hurricane and Heat Wave does like 4% more. Counters exist for defensive teams and it's fairly simple to pressure it offensively.
Togekiss and Pidgeot are completely different, as Togekiss had a setup move that pretty much invalidated slower teams due to the fact they could be paraflinched. Pidgeot's hax only happens 30% of the time, while in tandem with confusion hitting the opponent it only happens 15% of the time. I would say Pidgeot has centralization, but is it overcentralizing? I doubt that, since I'm not running some obscure unviable set / Pokemon just to deal with it, it has checks and counters that are good in the tier (Mega Aero, Empoleon, etc).Isn't the reason Togekiss was banned is because of how batshit crazy it was in the hax department?
If that is the case Mega Pidgeot should join it in the barren wasteland that is BL. If I'm not mistaken Smogon wants to cut down on luck and reduce overcentralization, and Mega Pidgeot breaks both of those rules.
Togekiss is a completely different story and had a 60% chance to flinch, and combined with its godly typing and the fact that it could boost while it was bullshitting its way through the other team made it even more broken than Jirachi ever was and could turn games around in an instant by just being Togekiss. Mega Pidgeot is completely different because it only runs one set, doesn't get the chance to boost itself, and even if it gets that 30% chance it relies on a 50% chance past that for the opponent to hit itself- that's a 15% chance of taking away a turn for the opponent as opposed to a 60% chance. Not the mention Togekiss is bulkier, can run an item, and has a better typing and has decent coverage past just Hurricane and Heat Wave.Isn't the reason Togekiss was banned is because of how batshit crazy it was in the hax department?
Don't wanna be that guy but :/First of all, Aero isn't the best counter to Pidgeot, Empoleon is. Second, You can get boned by hax by anything, it isn't exclusive to Pidgeot. For example, Keldeo in OUs number one counter is Latias/Latios. You hardly see Keldeo click anything other than Scald until Lati is burned and then it can either go with some Sub CM shenanigans or just try to kill it with Secret Sword. Other examples would be something like Suicune spamming Scald until its normal checks are weakened. Next, in the scenario you described above it is entirely possible to "outplay the hax" that occurred. More often than not, by the time you need to check Pidgeot a second time you have something that has outlived its usefulness and you can get rid of it. Sack something so you don't have to risk Pidgeot being "bullshit" and then the Pursuit is risk free and Aerodactyl can continue being very good like it always is. If you leave yourself vulnerable to getting haxed then you can't complain. Furthermore, you also can certainly see Aero muscle past some of its normal counters like Suicune through the use of Hone Claws and dodging a Scald Burn. Your point about preparing in the "best possible way" is kind of silly as well since Aerodactyl is far from a sturdy check. That sort of preparation is similar to using Banded Tyrantrum to check Crocune. Sure if you can dodge the burn then good job, but a burn spells that you're up shit creek without a paddle. Also, your whole Hydrei isn't flinching past Florges is exactly the same thing with Empoleon and Pidgeot. There is no fucking way that Empo is getting broken by Pidgeot on its own. It does like 15-18% or something like that with Hurricane and Heat Wave does like 4% more. Counters exist for defensive teams and it's fairly simple to pressure it offensively.