That's providing Smeargle isn't running Mist/Ingrain which stops you hazing and phasing...
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np: NU Stage 0 - For What It's Worth
- Thread starter tennisace
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Baton Pass is definitely not a problem without Smashpass, there are numerous ways to beat Baton Pass teams and every team should have one of them whether it be hazing or phazing or boosting alongside.
I think more and more people are realising the power of Lanturn as it seems every teams has one, it totally shuts down pokes like Magneton, Klingklang and Magmortar which are some of the biggest threats in the tier
I think more and more people are realising the power of Lanturn as it seems every teams has one, it totally shuts down pokes like Magneton, Klingklang and Magmortar which are some of the biggest threats in the tier
canno
formerly The Reptile
This might seem silly, but Expert Belt Magmortar is surprisingly not bad, IMO, better than the Life Orb set. I laugh when they send out their Quagasire on my Fire Blast just so that Hidden Power Grass rapes it's face off, similar situation with Lanturn, although I don't know how effective that really is.
Smeargle definitely makes it a problem and disputes that claim, as does Prankster Volbeat which can easily get a chance to priority encore something, set a sub and pass out to something that resists what you send in.
Smeargle running Spore/Quiver Dance/Ingrain and Baton Pass is almost as bad as Smash Passing, Quiver Dance is +1 to 3 stats, ingrain stops fazing and passes regeneration and spore gives him the opportunity to at least Quiver Dance and easily pass that boost after the speed boost which can always get passed back to him.
Too slow IMO, might be o.k if you can get him behind a sub but if you're subbing Leftovers > Expert Belt. Scarf Magmortar is probably the best, Expert Belt could be alright for bluffing a scarf however as scarf is very common, could definitely take someone off-guard and get a kill.
Smeargle's really been annoying me lately, but if you run a Sap Sipper on your team or something fast with Substitute you can stop him from sporing you and KO him before he passes something (most of the time). I disagree that it could be worse than Smash Pass, but it's really dangerous if you don't have a good way to stop it.
I haven't seen many Sub CM Mesprits myself, but the few I have battled usually run me through because I don't run a decent counter to it :/ My own fault really. Speaking of Mesprit, it's a great Sawk counter. It takes Close Combats like a champ and then uses Sawk as setup fodder.
Sawk himself is a bastard. Being one of the fastest and strongest Pokemon in the tier, he can clean a lot of teams on his own with the Jolly Choice Scarf set. Bulky Psychic types like Musharna are really the only thing that can beat him since there's nothing really out-speeding him. Sawk's been winning me a lot of matches. I've been using him and LO Kadabra as my main offensive Pokemon. Shit's fun.
I haven't seen many Sub CM Mesprits myself, but the few I have battled usually run me through because I don't run a decent counter to it :/ My own fault really. Speaking of Mesprit, it's a great Sawk counter. It takes Close Combats like a champ and then uses Sawk as setup fodder.
Sawk himself is a bastard. Being one of the fastest and strongest Pokemon in the tier, he can clean a lot of teams on his own with the Jolly Choice Scarf set. Bulky Psychic types like Musharna are really the only thing that can beat him since there's nothing really out-speeding him. Sawk's been winning me a lot of matches. I've been using him and LO Kadabra as my main offensive Pokemon. Shit's fun.
I've been running a sap sipper Miltank almost purely to counter Smeargle but even then he can usually get up a couple of layers of spikes as I body slam him due to the sash.
Vital Spirit Magmortar is a solid counter, but honestly, having to run Pokes that are immune to sleep purely to deal with an ex-OU lingering around in the depths of NU feels unreasonable. Smeargle is too good for the tier, even without Smash Pass nothing out-performs him at what he does and nothing renders him worthless if played right.
it's not that hard to throw something on your team that deals with sleep well, such as; anything with restalk, magmortar, miltank, swellow, w/e. or just be like this one guy i faced and use dual chop fraxure. that works.
this is the smeargle set i use, and i personally agree that smeargle may be to much for the tier due to the support factor.
ive used him to great success in RU, and NU
Smeargle (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: None
Hardy Nature
- Trick Room
- Spore
- Endeavor
- Dragon Rage
Level: 1
this smeargle excels at setting up trick room early in the match, thus allowing smeargle to cripple something with spore. even at full hp, endeavor will leave the opponent at 12 hp, allowing you to finish them off with dragon rage.
tbh, sleep leads and ghosts such as bannete are the only things stopping it from messing up at least one pokemon.
after smeargle goes down, send a trick room sweeper in to wreck shit coughdruddigoncough. coughclamperlcough,
ive used him to great success in RU, and NU
Smeargle (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: None
Hardy Nature
- Trick Room
- Spore
- Endeavor
- Dragon Rage
Level: 1
this smeargle excels at setting up trick room early in the match, thus allowing smeargle to cripple something with spore. even at full hp, endeavor will leave the opponent at 12 hp, allowing you to finish them off with dragon rage.
tbh, sleep leads and ghosts such as bannete are the only things stopping it from messing up at least one pokemon.
after smeargle goes down, send a trick room sweeper in to wreck shit coughdruddigoncough. coughclamperlcough,
canno
formerly The Reptile
*coughrampardoscough*
Also, only problem I see with this set is that when they see Level 1, they'll most likely know something is up.
Other than that, reminds me a little of Endeavor Duosion in RU, except not as overpowered.
Yeah, I've fought FEARgle before, the only solid counter is to phase it (as trick room goes after phasing moves, so you phase him before it gets off) and to get Rocks up to break his Sash as it comes in. Ultimately though it's cheap, it's not just thinking outside of the box, it's the sort of thing that makes me hate this game at times and the reason I don't take laddering on PO seriously.
yeah, it needs a little support, like pokemon with pursuit and insomnia coughbannetecough most of the time when using this set, the opponent ends up with 1-2 pokemon dead/crippled and one asleep, unlike most smeargle this one has an offensive presence.
Edit: not even phazing can consistently stop it because smeargle can just use spore first turn to stop the phazer from forcing it out.
F.E.A.R.gle is definitely an underrated mon. OTR also definitely gives it a niche over other F.E.A.R. Pokemon. The only thing is that F.E.A.R.gle needs a ton of team support in order to function well, but MK has definitely shown its viability.
Ultimately F.E.A.R isn't any sign of skill, it's a cheap abuse of game mechanics, if I had my way it would be bannable as I don't consider F.E.A.R anything as actually playing the game. You're using abusive mechanics for a cheap win, that's it.
well, bannete is a hard counter to this smeargle set, being immune to both endeavor and spore, and being able to taunt trick room.
F.E.A.Rgle is a very good addition to trick room teams imo, providing dat immense amounts of support to your CB druddigon and rampardos :P
canno
formerly The Reptile
Not to mention Pursuit trap it, although not as notable since FEARgle can't switch in unless the field is clear and FEARgles opponent uses a non-attacking move that's not a status move (bar Thunder Wave) or taunt.
But just about any ghost does a good job at countering it as soon as he spores something else. Misdeverous and Haunter get special mentions for being the more popular ghost. Plus, by running a ghost, you get a spin blocker as an added bonus.
I personally run a pokemon that can easily take down opposing ghosts, such as sneasel, or krookodile in RU. i usually lead off with smeargle making hazards less of a concern.
if you keep hazards of the feild FEARgle can come in mid to late game in trick room and start up its shenanigans again.
now if only smeargle got scrappy lolololololol
if you keep hazards of the feild FEARgle can come in mid to late game in trick room and start up its shenanigans again.
now if only smeargle got scrappy lolololololol
canno
formerly The Reptile
The only problem I have is that hazards are difficult to remove in NU due to the lack of viable spinners. However, I assume you run something like Armaldo with Rapid Spin, due to his good attack, decent bulk, and horrible speed, not to mention Stealth Rocks if you're into that type of thing, so it shouldn't be too big of a deal.
Still, Ghosts do make FEARgle sad, especially Bannete.
Also, Scrappy Smeargle. Oh god, Scrappy Smeargle.
...save the fact that you promote its discussion at all costs...? dunno how you didnt expect that tbqh
also i find that this is really only one of those gimmicks that you are surprised by once and then never again. dont know how you manage to consistently win with it, really. :/
i dont know either, i expected the same, but i have been consistently taking out multiple pokemon from teams, even from people i have battled before, its pretty damn consistent of you ask me.
later today i might even post logs, i dunno, just wanted to see what people thought of the gimmick.
MoltenKyurem, you've even changed your avatar to promote this new set... When you find a set that you like, theres nothing stopping you :p
Unfortunately, this set isn't in the analysis (I tried Molk, I tried), but I still think it should be. MoltenKyurem has shown that this strategy is definitely worthy of a set. Sure it might be a gimmick but it is an effective one that can be used even if the opponent has already seen it.
On the topic of Armaldo as a spinner, I've found that Cryogonal is by far the better spinner in NU purely because it has instant recovery, most of the viable spinners in NU are weak to hazards so they really aren't getting many opportunities to Spin, on a Trick Room team however, Armaldo could be used as an offensive spinner with Max Attack so it can force a switch (especially under Trick Room) to spin. Spinning is such a hard task in NU that people are resorting to things like Wartortle and lol Tentacool.
Unfortunately, this set isn't in the analysis (I tried Molk, I tried), but I still think it should be. MoltenKyurem has shown that this strategy is definitely worthy of a set. Sure it might be a gimmick but it is an effective one that can be used even if the opponent has already seen it.
On the topic of Armaldo as a spinner, I've found that Cryogonal is by far the better spinner in NU purely because it has instant recovery, most of the viable spinners in NU are weak to hazards so they really aren't getting many opportunities to Spin, on a Trick Room team however, Armaldo could be used as an offensive spinner with Max Attack so it can force a switch (especially under Trick Room) to spin. Spinning is such a hard task in NU that people are resorting to things like Wartortle and lol Tentacool.
now that hail has been banned, FEARGLE is that much more effective, i believe it deserves to be on-site, seriously and yeah, its VERY hard to spin in NU.
(speaking of that smeargle can rapid spin AND set up hazards). i agree with cryogonal being an excellent spinner and special tank in general, and i also have to agree with armaldo being very effetive, especially cause it can set up rocks.
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