Modest LO variants even KO it with sludge bomb at -2 sp. atk. after it comes in on a Leaf Storm. Actually, it can even kill something ELSE with a Leaf Storm, and then always OHKO Tangrowth with Sludge Bomb if it comes in on rocks, though it can OHKO it w/o SR if you get a high enough damage roll. (min 89% against it at -2 Sp. Atk.)Even funnier - people think that Tangrowth can actually wall Roserade. I mean, even a resisted Energy Ball does 40% sometimes, and Sludge Bomb easily OHKOs.
I don't think i've seen anyone keep a Tangrowth in on a Roserade....except when they've scouted the set and seen Sludge Bomb isn't there.Even funnier - people think that Tangrowth can actually wall Roserade. I mean, even a resisted Energy Ball does 40% sometimes, and Sludge Bomb easily OHKOs.
Hm. Thats cool, could beat Roserade leads. I dont like having suicide anything unless its explosion on a Regi though. Dugtrio seems like a much bigger help to a team as a trapper than as a SR user. Imo, UU has enough of those and I think his job as a revenge killer is going to outway his usefulness as a lead... guess we will find out. :PThis just occurred to me... and I don't think I've seen it posted yet...
Dugtrio will be the fastest Stealth Rocker in UU. I wonder if this will cause a rise in suicide leads?
Oh, I suppose it really isn't to suicidal in Dugrio's case.
Probably in place of Stone Edge, since Sucker Punch allows you to beat Scarf Roserade that Leaf Storms instead of Sleep Powders.Protect in place of one of the coverage moves lets you beat Ambipom 100% of the time.
What kind of idiot would use a Scarfed Sleep Powder against Dugtrio anyway?Probably in place of Stone Edge, since Sucker Punch allows you to beat Scarf Roserade that Leaf Storms instead of Sleep Powders.
You don't exactly 'beat' Ambipom. Dugtrio and Ambipom simply exchange blows with Earthquake and U-turn respectively for ~60% each. If anything the Ampibom user wins due to the favorable match-up after U-turn.Protect in place of one of the coverage moves lets you beat Ambipom 100% of the time.
Brain fart on my part. My bad.What kind of idiot would use a Scarfed Sleep Powder against Dugtrio anyway?
Yup. The guy with Ambipom may switch to anybody after the U-turn, ranging from priority carrier, water or grass, more Dugtrio, Trace, etc. (for the last, Sand Veil handles this, but who on Earth will do it so often outside TSSes?) This effect is multiplied during late game, imho, where you two usually know who's in whose team.You don't exactly 'beat' Ambipom. Dugtrio and Ambipom simply exchange blows with Earthquake and U-turn respectively for ~60% each. If anything the Ampibom user wins due to the favorable match-up after U-turn.
Donphan has access to Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin and Knock Off. Claydol has the first two but is a significantly weaker Spinner due to having less offense to shake off Ghosts. Claydol is also a much weaker wall in general due to being weak to Absol's Night Slash, a move that is incredibly common in UU. Claydol has Explosion, yes, Trick Room, and Special availability, but thats it.With the Nidos being balanced, Claydol spinning, Torterras defense and now Dugtrios offense, is Donophan even going to have a role to fill in UU? Seems to strong for NU but I just dont see him getting much play without the same number of dragons and fliers his ice shard was good for in OU.
Donphan doesn't need to be weak to fire with that wretched special defense. Switching into Fire Blasts/Eruptions is impossible for him. Not only does Torterra get Leech Seed and Synthesis, Wood Hammer for bulky waters, but dual screens, resistance to ground, no weakness to water, and the omnipresent threat of sweeping. Torterra can beat most of its counters abusing the SubSeed strategy, or sweeping through offensive teams with Rock Polish. The versatility makes up for the lower attack and defense.Good points, hadnt thought about Absol. I guess I just prefer Claydol's utility in the form of Trick and Explosion, but Donophan can at least try to throw Stone Edges at the ghosts while weathering 2-3 Shadow Balls.
Torterra has Leech Seed and Synthesis which I think makes it a better physical wall, plus a STAB grass attack for waters. Donophan isnt weak to fire, but he is weak to the super effective HPs most Typhlosion, Blaziken, and Magmortar carry.
I know he isnt the same as Dugtrio, but if I'm looking for an offensive EQ and Stone Edge, I'd pick Duggy over Phan for his speed and ability to trap, not to mention his even better answer to ghosts.
Rescinding my original opinion though, he does seem to have some good roles to fill.
I wouldn't call Donphan a real Torterra check, considering that Donphan needs max attack and Choice Band to even have a chance for a OHKO on RP Torterra with Ice Shard (about 3% chance at that) while a Max HP/Def Donphan has a decent chance of being OHKOed (60% with Stealth Rock IIRC)And besides, Torterra is checked by Donphan as well.