Mewtwo (QC 2/3)

[Nayrz]

Shouldn't Yveltal be higher up on the checks and counters list? The defensive set can completely shut down all Mewtwo (Stalltwo is a little annoying) and force them out, or Yveltal can just take them out should the right predictions be made.

 

[Blue Jay]

Shouldn't Yveltal be higher up on the checks and counters list? The defensive set can completely shut down all Mewtwo (Stalltwo is a little annoying) and force them out, or Yveltal can just take them out should the right predictions be made.

The defensive set doesn't like Stalltwo although it's very likely to win, hates to take an Ice Beam from MMY (ie can't switch in on certain MMY variants) and is 2HKOed by MMX Low Kick after SR (and it can't OHKO MMX). Roost helps it handle them but it may get caught with Taunt.

The offensive set is guaranteed to be OHKOed by either MMY's Ice Beam after SR or MMX's Low Kick after SR, depending on its nature, while using Sucker as MMY switches robs momentum but not using Sucker can get ugly. Then again, if you do get caught by an Ice Beam without SR up, or just like Fire Blast with SR up, you're now in a really bad place because you need to Sucker, but if you do, and the opponent switches and forces you out, Yveltal now has scraps of health to come in on. MMX can't get Suckered so anytime Yveltal isn't that high on health MMX can happily just Low Kick it (Stone Edge variants barely even need prior damage). In ideal circumstances the offensive set is a solid revenge killer for MMX and it can revenge kill MMY in the worst circumstances, but apart from good predictions switching in sucks really sucks for it. It's admittedly great against Stalltwo. I tried to put stuff that could switch in on the offensive sets and win first, with only Psyceus out of those below Yveltal because Yveltal is WAY more viable. Wobba would be around where Psyceus is, but Wobba gets Shadow Tag so those sets are forced to die, which neither Yveltal nor Psyceus can claim.

 

[Nayrz]

The defensive set doesn't like Stalltwo although it's very likely to win, hates to take an Ice Beam from MMY (ie can't switch in on certain MMY variants) and is 2HKOed by MMX Low Kick after SR (and it can't OHKO MMX). Roost helps it handle them but it may get caught with Taunt.

The offensive set is guaranteed to be OHKOed by either MMY's Ice Beam after SR or MMX's Low Kick after SR, depending on its nature, while using Sucker as MMY switches robs momentum but not using Sucker can get ugly. Then again, if you do get caught by an Ice Beam without SR up, or just like Fire Blast with SR up, you're now in a really bad place because you need to Sucker, but if you do, and the opponent switches and forces you out, Yveltal now has scraps of health to come in on. MMX can't get Suckered so anytime Yveltal isn't that high on health MMX can happily just Low Kick it (Stone Edge variants barely even need prior damage). In ideal circumstances the offensive set is a solid revenge killer for MMX and it can revenge kill MMY in the worst circumstances, but apart from good predictions switching in sucks really sucks for it. It's admittedly great against Stalltwo. I tried to put stuff that could switch in on the offensive sets and win first, with only Psyceus out of those below Yveltal because Yveltal is WAY more viable. Wobba would be around where Psyceus is, but Wobba gets Shadow Tag so those sets are forced to die, which neither Yveltal nor Psyceus can claim.

When it comes to the defensive set I like using Dread Plate at times, simply for the purpose of OHKOing MMX and standard Ekilller without any prior damage, but I agree with the rest of what you say.
8 Atk Dread Plate Dark Aura Yveltal Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo X: 331-391 (93.7 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

 

[Unowninator]

Can Stalltwo use Mewtwonite X? I mean, it does get a boost in both Defense & Sp. Def & loses 2 weaknesses: Dark & Bug (but also gains 2 weaknesses: Fairy & Flying). You'd just have to run Jolly & Pressure instead (Unnerve Mewtwo are set to ALWAYS be Timid).

 

[Blue Jay]

Can Stalltwo use Mewtwonite X? I mean, it does get a boost in both Defense & Sp. Def & loses 2 weaknesses: Dark & Bug (but also gains 2 weaknesses: Fairy & Flying). You'd just have to run Jolly & Pressure instead (Unnerve Mewtwo are set to ALWAYS be Timid).

It's usable, but the gained resistances don't do that much (Yveltal now gets a super effective Oblivion Wing instead of Dark Pulse, which is even better for it, while Bug moves are really rare and Genesect aside you can burn them before they attack) and the Fairy weakness is very tedious. The gained bulk is not enough to compensate the loss of Leftovers and Unnerve definitely has its uses. I'm not fond of either Mega Mewtwo in this role and feel that their advantages are only situational compared to the general utility of Leftovers, while having the option of using a different Mega Evolution is nice too, but they are all viable.

 

[Bossness]

Isn't max speed better for Stalltwo?

 

[Hack]

I like having a little extra bulk for the physical attackers you check. Any reason you think max speed is better though?

 

[SylveonIsCute]

For Mewtwo X you could mention it's ability makes it a decent check to fake out Kangaskhan.

 

[SylveonIsCute]

no because you can't switch in on fake out as if you do it won't flinch you, so you can't check the fake outs :(. what it does do is let you take an air slash from scarf skymin and become faster (you'll be faster than non scarf skymin anyway)

You can't switch in on an air slash either -_-

 

[SylveonIsCute]

............ what

What I mean is of course you can't switch in on fake out because you can't be flinched and gain a speed boost, so that's a pretty silly thing to say Palkia. lol i probably worded that wrong, my point is your post din' make no sense bruh.

 

[SylveonIsCute]

Okay clearly you didn't understand what i meant at all. The only real use of Steadfast is to take an Air Slash from scarfed Shaymin and become faster. It's the only time that Mewtwo will get flinched. Khan vs MMX will NEVER happen in a way that lets mewtwo come out with +1 speed. The only way in hell Khan is gonna come in on MMX is to revenge it at low health, at which point it will Fake Out + Sucker Punch MMX away - so the +1 speed is useless cause you'll fall to the next round of priority (cause MMX can easily wipe out Khan otherwise). You keep posting about unrealistic things, I hope this explanation clarifies what i meant

I know exactly what you are talking about, stop being so condescending :(
I have sent out Mewtwo and Khan at the same time a few times before, Mega evolved to take the fake out and gain +1 speed. Certainly not an unrealistic situation, how does Mega Khan know that Mewtwo won't go for will-o-wisp or calm mind or bulk-up or recover or simply switch out predicting sucker punch? It would be more reliable to go for fake out and return and that's exactly what most people did in those situations.
And at 1+ it's very useful for outspeeding and OHKOing scarfed Shaymin without taking an air slash, not risking a speed tie with Mega Gengar, OHKOing scarf Kyogre after rocks and doing significant damage to scarf Zekrom before taking a bolt strike. And if you manage to get off a bulk up you can OHKO all of them without any support.
I don't agree with scarfed Shaymin-S, it's a more realistic situation, sure, but you will not be living with much afterwards and will leave you prone to being revenge killed by priority much more easily than the Mega Khan situation.
Basically his ability is incredibly situational at best.
So stop. Just. Stop.

 

[Muk]

Uh, it looks like SylveonIsCute was just trying to point out that if Mewtwo (presumably before Mega Evolving) and Kangaskhan are brought out at the same time, MMX can pick up a speed boost from Fake Out. I suppose this could happen in a lead scenario or something, but it's so situational that it's probably not worth mentioning in the analysis. At any rate, I don't see what all the arguing is about, lol. (He said he worded his original post wrong, in terms of the meaning of "check")

 

[SylveonIsCute]

yeah lol when you put it that way there's really no point arguing about this. So i will stop, and hopefully Palkia will stop also :)

 

[shrang]

I like having a little extra bulk for the physical attackers you check. Any reason you think max speed is better though?

If you're running non-MMY Stalltwo, you lose a speed-tie with Mega Gengar if you don't run max Speed. You're also outsped by Darkrai (can at least Taunt or WoW it) and Skymin too (relatively rare, but something you should not lose to).

 

[Fireburn]

Blue Jay what's the wurd on this, burd

 

[Kebabe]

The extra def gives stalltwo a pretty good chance to switch in on Lum Ekiller and beat it 1v1, also gets a better chance to tank other e-killer variants after SR and leave them with a burn. But I still think max speed should be standard for the reasons Shrang mentioned but also b/c non max speed stalltwo looses pretty hard to other stalltwos.

I also feel that any set that has focus blast should have unnerve, tbh pressure is only helpful on sets with recover to stall Palkias 8pp moves.

 

[orch]

The extra def gives stalltwo a pretty good chance to switch in on Lum Ekiller and beat it 1v1, also gets a better chance to tank other e-killer variants after SR and leave them with a burn. But I still think max speed should be standard for the reasons Shrang mentioned but also b/c non max speed stalltwo looses pretty hard to other stalltwos.

I also feel that any set that has focus blast should have unnerve, tbh pressure is only helpful on sets with recover to stall Palkias 8pp moves.

i dont really see the appeal of going max speed for stalltwo, especially since you can go with stalltwo-y to beat these stuff without risk of speed tie and beating neutral deo-a (!!!). I think that these two niches should be more clearly defined and separated- going 50/50 vs gengar and other stalltwo is just not cool. totally agreed with the points about unnerve focus blast and lum ekiller btw.

 

[Bossness]

It's better to have a 50% chance to KO Mega Gengar than having it just come in against Stalltwo and get a free kill, no? With max speed, you also have a better chance to beat Mega Mewtwo X as you can Taunt it before it Taunts you, or you can Psystike it twice as it Taunts you, resulting in Mega Mewtwo X being KO'd before doing any damage to Stalltwo.

 

[aim]

is 252 atk even needed on physical attacker? it gets all the same 2HK0's with 4 atk investment.

 

[Nayrz]

is 252 atk even needed on physical attacker? it gets all the same 2HK0's with 4 atk investment.

Physical attacker? I'm gonna assume MMX, in which case you need max attack to ohko max hp arceus formes (if low kick is SE against them)

252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Rock: 446-528 (100.4 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Rock: 390-458 (87.8 - 103.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

theres also the question of where else would the ev's go that make it useful? hitting neutral targets hard like Palkia are well worth the investment.

0 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Palkia: 228-268 (70.8 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Palkia: 262-309 (81.3 - 95.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

ps: bump the right thread, this one got taken over haha, new thread's here

 

[aim]

Just saying from experience lol. I'd say mix mmx with psystrike taunt ice beam lowkick > pure physical attacker. I don't want to clog this thread though so i'll drop it.

 

[Fireburn]

Muk has taken this analysis over, locking.