Other Looking Ahead to Gen VI Mark II (SEE POSTS #818 & #858)

[silenced]

Another thing to consider with aegislash is that it will be somewhat hard to trigger its signature protect move since a large number of contact moves are fighting moves...which can't even hit aegislash. Still an incredible move though, especially against sun teams who may want to use a physical fire type.

I'm also excited for doublade in the lower tiers. That ridiculous eviolite boosted defense stat aside, I'm rather curious as to the support movepool it gets as ghosts tend to get quite a few nice support moves that could be made much better courtesy of no guard.

I keep seeing things about megastones being banned here and there. This I think will happen in the lower tiers, and will for at least one megaevolution. Lets not forget drought is illegal in all tiers below OU so you wouldn't even legally be able to use megacharizardite Y below OU due to this. I'm thinking asides from that, mega charizard X will be far too powerful for both NU and RU. It could easily use only its STABs, Dragon Dance and Roost since nothing like heatran exists in the lower ties to stop it. UU may be able to deal with it though...

All these megaevolutions make me think Trick Room will make a resurgence in gen 6. So many slow juggernauts from the megaevolutions, combined with pokes like reuniclus will be very difficult to deal with. Considering also TR now has several ways to change/abuse their own weather (e.g mega abomasnow) or abuse other weathers (Eruption heatran under sun, Clowizter under rain), its going to be very hard to deal with. Just have to see what can learn TR this coming gen now...

 

[Kejmur]

Another thing to consider with aegislash is that it will be somewhat hard to trigger its signature protect move since a large number of contact moves are fighting moves...which can't even hit aegislash. Still an incredible move though, especially against sun teams who may want to use a physical fire type.

I'm also excited for doublade in the lower tiers. That ridiculous eviolite boosted defense stat aside, I'm rather curious as to the support movepool it gets as ghosts tend to get quite a few nice support moves that could be made much better courtesy of no guard.

I keep seeing things about megastones being banned here and there. This I think will happen in the lower tiers, and will for at least one megaevolution. Lets not forget drought is illegal in all tiers below OU so you wouldn't even legally be able to use megacharizardite Y below OU due to this. I'm thinking asides from that, mega charizard X will be far too powerful for both NU and RU. It could easily use only its STABs, Dragon Dance and Roost since nothing like heatran exists in the lower ties to stop it. UU may be able to deal with it though...

All these megaevolutions make me think Trick Room will make a resurgence in gen 6. So many slow juggernauts from the megaevolutions, combined with pokes like reuniclus will be very difficult to deal with. Considering also TR now has several ways to change/abuse their own weather (e.g mega abomasnow) or abuse other weathers (Eruption heatran under sun, Clowizter under rain), its going to be very hard to deal with. Just have to see what can learn TR this coming gen now...

Problem with Trick Room in Singles is that 5 turns is really not enough to sweep opponents, especially if they are good with smart switching in and out. And giving item which increases longevity of TR would possibly make it broken in doubles or at least really hard to handle without overspecialization. Although I admit that all those slow behemots make TR even better in doubles (and maybe in singles as well, who knows) which of course I love to hear as TR teams are my favorite style to play in doubles ;).

I'm pretty sure we'll see some megastones banned here and there, although so far I'm really dissapointed on which Pokemon get those evolutions as many of them didn't really needed those (Blaziken, Lucario, MEWTWO) or it makes them straight up... weaker, unless they get drastically better stats (Gengar with Ghost/Psychic if rumour and screenshot with it is true). I wanted to see Mevo of something like Farfetch'd or Dunsparce, as those are Pokemon which really need those. I still hate that GameFreak ignore some Pokemon without giving them a chance to be really viable at all...

http://puu.sh/4IUOH.jpg

it looks like ampharos is gonna have special attack in the 170-180 range. If you saw the battle demo it ohko'd a megablaziken at full which is definitely impressive. considering the attacking and attacked pokemon usually have 0 IVS and 0 EVs in their stats in these demos, it needed well over 150 base spatk to do that. it has respectable defenses too, probably around base 100.

If I had to guess its base stat spread

X / 90 / 100 / 180 / 90 / 35

HP is weird because in the screenshot it should be around Ampharos's base hp, but from the demo battle I would think it would be 118sh. Also Ampharos's HP stat didn't change when it mega evolved in the demo. it stayed at 178 hp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jk6ZXNdNfV8#t=95 for reference.

Oh well, I need to say that this Ampharos Special Attack look sweet, so it may be a really decent and scary tank which can dish out heavy hits as 90/90/90 defenses are good enough to take resisted hits (while only having ONE weakness) while dishing out some heavy ones back. Although this monstrous special attack means it won't get Tail Glow like many fans wanted him to get. +3 with this SpA sounds straight up scary.

Mega amphy has 3 weaknesses due to being part dragon. Sky high special and respectable bulk should allow it to tank with parabolic charge healing though.

Touche. Yep, it gains 2 more weaknesses, but it's still not that many and none x4 glaring weakness.

 

[youngjake93]

Problem with Trick Room in Singles is that 5 turns is really not enough to sweep opponents, especially if they are good with smart switching in and out. And giving item which increases longevity of TR would possibly make it broken or at least really hard to handle without overspecialization. Although I admit that all those slow behemots make TR even better in doubles (and maybe in singles as well, who knows) which of course I love to hear as TR teams are my favorite style to play in doubles ;).

I'm pretty sure we'll see some megastones banned here and there, although so far I'm really dissapointed on which Pokemon get those evolutions as many of them didn't really needed those (Blaziken, Lucario, MEWTWO) or it makes them straight up... weaker, unless they get drastically better stats (Gengar with Ghost/Psychic if rumour and screenshot with it is true). I wanted to see Mevo of something like Farfetch'd or Dunsparce, as those are Pokemon which really need those. I still hate that GameFreak ignore some Pokemon without giving them a chance to be really viable at all...



Oh well, I need to say that this Ampharos Special Attack look sweet, so it may be a really decent and scary tank which can dish out heavy hits as 90/90/90 defenses are good enough to take resisted hits (while only having ONE weakness) while dishing out some heavy ones back. Although this monstrous special attack means it won't get Tail Glow like many fans wanted him to get. +3 with this SpA sounds straight up scary.

Mega amphy has 3 weaknesses due to being part dragon. Sky high special and respectable bulk should allow it to tank with parabolic charge healing though.

 

[ApathyandToast]

http://puu.sh/4IUOH.jpg

it looks like ampharos is gonna have special attack in the 170-180 range. If you saw the battle demo it ohko'd a megablaziken at full which is definitely impressive. considering the attacking and attacked pokemon usually have 0 IVS and 0 EVs in their stats in these demos, it needed well over 150 base spatk to do that. it has respectable defenses too, probably around base 100.

How do you know their IVs are 0? 0 EVs sounds reasonable, but why can't they just be using randomly generated pokemon with random IVs?

 

[Progeusz]

Okay, so I counted Mega Mewtwo Y stats using http://i.imgur.com/cNiOfZt.png and they appear to be:
106/150/70/194/120/140
So only 10 boost in speed and no 200 SpA but still something amazing. 780 BST.

 

[higglybiggly]

Unfortunately normal Mewtwo with Life Orb hits harder than Mewtwo Y, so the only reason to use it would be for it's speed and increased special bulk. Looks like it won't impact Ubers too much.

 

[Spinda]

Given that different formes (i.e. Landorus-I and Landorus-T) are treated like different pokemon despite sharing the same pokedex number, will Mega pokemon be treated as different pokemon as well, or just diffeerent sets?
If the former is true perhaps we could see a Mega pokemon ending up in a lower tier than its base forme? How would that be handled?

Megaevolutions change formes in battle, similarly to how say meloetta changes formes in battle, and should be counted as the same pokemon for that reason
We could ban the respective megastones from a tier if it's deemed neccesary, though.

 

[Oddish is the best]

Megaevolutions change formes in battle, similarly to how say meloetta changes formes in battle, and should be counted as the same pokemon for that reason
We could ban the respective megastones from a tier if it's deemed neccesary, though.

Especially for pokes like Amphy and Mawile and Kanga.

 

[The LoudWendle]

Megaevolutions change formes in battle, similarly to how say meloetta changes formes in battle, and should be counted as the same pokemon for that reason
We could ban the respective megastones from a tier if it's deemed neccesary, though.

I'd second that, if it was a vote.

Defensive Mega Pokemon* and Mega Charizard* are going to be useless

* assuming the mega evolution doesn't occur on switching in. Over the past the 5 generations walls have been at full defensive capabilities from turn one considering the incoming attacking attack its switching into and the entry hazards present (when was the last time you saw a competitive cosmic power wall or a wall weak to stealth rock). Mawile doesn't have the stats to take any hits neutral or otherwise, Mega mawile on the other hand can, but it won't be switching into the attack 60/85/60 mawile will be instead .Revenging with him, is a no-no its speed will barely change . labouring the Mawile scenario more, assume the mawile survives the switch in and hazards and takes 50% of its health and evolves next turn. What can a decent wall with no recovery and no leftovers wall now? It might be to dish out a super effective hit and possibly KO (assuming the player didn't pay attention to the team preview or was smart) but it won't take much effort for the opponent to counter. Gardeivoir might fare better, having better defenisive stats but its low speed and lack of recovery will hamper its bulk and its effectiveness. Or alternatively you could have a wall that doesn't need to mega evolve and has full walling capability from the second it hits the field. Amphy its the bulkiest ( and is good pokemon I've seen it used effectively in gen 4) and could possibly have a chance to have 60%+ hp after evolving and have a few swings with 180 base.

Charizard will still suffer from stealth rock and its bad typing, like the past few generations. Its power could equal Salamences' so why not just Salamence that doesn't have the problem with stealth rock and bad typing.

All this, i've yet to speculate on how many times you can have a pokemon evolve into its mega form in one battle, if its the one time. Why would anyone want a mediocre defensive poke on their team, surely having a equally mediocre sweeper like kangaskan or lucario.

Welcome everybody to Gen 6, hyper offensive is the game and the only way to play.

 

[higglybiggly]

I honestly think that Gen 6 is going to sway from the hyper offense and lean towards bulky offense instead. Judging from all the new Pokemon Gen 6 has brought (not the megas), most pokemon have solid bulk, and a good attacking stat. The prime example of this is Aegislash, who literally takes the bulky, and the offense and separates it. Aegislash is just one of many (Goodra, Florges, Clawitzer etc.) pokemon who are gonna change the meta game drastically. Megas are the complete opposite, and should mainly be used for hyper offense, with the exception of Venusaur and Mawile, who are getting defensive boosts. Mawile with her unique typing will find it easy to come in on attacks then mega evolve. Venusaur already has considerable bulk and can easily switch into fighting, grass, electric, and water attacks.

 

[Progeusz]

Unfortunately normal Mewtwo with Life Orb hits harder than Mewtwo Y, so the only reason to use it would be for it's speed and increased special bulk. Looks like it won't impact Ubers too much.

+Speed Mega Mewtwo Y has 487 SpA, Life Orb Mewtwo has effectively 529 SpA, mere 8.6% more. Meanwhile Mewtwo Y doesn't have to worry about recoil and can't be put to sleep (hi Darkrai), it has its uses.
A lot depends on which KOs/2HKOs it might miss because of (lol) lower power.


The LoudWendle, Mawile has Intimidate. It switches on resisted physical attack (quite easy to find one), lowers opponent's Attack and Mega Evolves next turn. I don't see a problem here, Mawile has 85 Def, it can survive an attack. It stays mega till the end of battle.
Why in the world are you treating Mega Mawile as a wall? It has Huge Power, so with max investment it equals to over 200 base Atk. How can you call a Pokémon with the highest Attack in the game a defensive one? Yes, it's slow but it also has Sucker Punch.
You should look at Mega Venusaur or Mega Blastoise but even those are more like tanks rather than walls.

You can't see a reason to use Charizard X over Salamence? Zard is immune to burn, neutral to Fairy, neutral to Ice, has Roost, Swords Dance and STAB Flare Blitz. Zard X is a really unique Dragon.

 

[VanityEgo]

The LoudWendle, Mawile has Intimidate. It switches on resisted physical attack (quite easy to find one), lowers opponent's Attack and Mega Evolves next turn. I don't see a problem here, Mawile has 85 Def, it can survive an attack. It stays mega till the end of battle.
Why in the world are you treating Mega Mawile as a wall? It has Huge Power, so with max investment it equals to over 200 base Atk. How can you call a Pokémon with the highest Attack in the game a defensive one? Yes, it's slow but it also has Sucker Punch.
You should look at Mega Venusaur or Mega Blastoise but even those are more like tanks rather than walls.

Not to mention that Mawile can switch into Poison and Dragon-type attacks and not give the beginning of a f**k.

 

[the24th]

I'd second that, if it was a vote.

Defensive Mega Pokemon* and Mega Charizard* are going to be useless

* assuming the mega evolution doesn't occur on switching in. Over the past the 5 generations walls have been at full defensive capabilities from turn one considering the incoming attacking attack its switching into and the entry hazards present (when was the last time you saw a competitive cosmic power wall or a wall weak to stealth rock). Mawile doesn't have the stats to take any hits neutral or otherwise, Mega mawile on the other hand can, but it won't be switching into the attack 60/85/60 mawile will be instead .Revenging with him, is a no-no its speed will barely change . labouring the Mawile scenario more, assume the mawile survives the switch in and hazards and takes 50% of its health and evolves next turn. What can a decent wall with no recovery and no leftovers wall now? It might be to dish out a super effective hit and possibly KO (assuming the player didn't pay attention to the team preview or was smart) but it won't take much effort for the opponent to counter. Gardeivoir might fare better, having better defenisive stats but its low speed and lack of recovery will hamper its bulk and its effectiveness. Or alternatively you could have a wall that doesn't need to mega evolve and has full walling capability from the second it hits the field. Amphy its the bulkiest ( and is good pokemon I've seen it used effectively in gen 4) and could possibly have a chance to have 60%+ hp after evolving and have a few swings with 180 base.

Charizard will still suffer from stealth rock and its bad typing, like the past few generations. Its power could equal Salamences' so why not just Salamence that doesn't have the problem with stealth rock and bad typing.

All this, i've yet to speculate on how many times you can have a pokemon evolve into its mega form in one battle, if its the one time. Why would anyone want a mediocre defensive poke on their team, surely having a equally mediocre sweeper like kangaskan or lucario.

Welcome everybody to Gen 6, hyper offensive is the game and the only way to play.

I very much appreciate both higglybiggly and Progeusz for their wide enough peripheral vision to not class a Pokemon or even an entire generation on narrow associations, such as with Mawile. GameFreak, as mentioned countless times on many threads, intended balance, and Mawile certainly stands as testament to this. Without Huge Power or its retyping, your reasoning would hold MMawile as a less than useful MPoke, just as certain defense boosting moves are considered "less than useful" to be considered competitively viable, but Mawile has been retyped and it has Intimidate/Huge Power (in addition to the Mega defense boosts), and they both allow Mawile to survive, both in its entry into battle and for a large portion of a match after it MEvos. While I understand that this is your opinion, it's kind of naive to say that "hyper offense" is the only way, for any creative person would argue otherwise, especially considering it has never been "that way."

 

[higglybiggly]

Not to mention it only needs to switch in with it's unevolved form once. you could even do this at the start of the battle so you don't have to switch in at all, and use mawile for stealth rocks. plenty of ways to get around it. And with Mawile's boosted defense stats, which I'm assuming is gonna be a very significant increase, as it does need to reach a high bst, to follow the pattern of mega, it can switch in numerous times, and recover health with pain split due to it's low hp. My predicted stat spread would be (only my prediction): 50/100/155/70/155/70. This gives it a bst of 600 which is the assumption, huge boosts in def and spD, an attack boost, a spA boost (useless but that's what GF likes to do), and a speed increase. This should be about right, considering that the def and spD got a boost of 70 and 100 respectively, and it probably wouldn't go higher than that.

 

[Kejmur]

I've been keeping tabs on any stats I see and calcing them myself, so here's what I have so far and my general thoughts competitively:

Hawlucha (Flying/Fighting)
Base 70/95/80/65/70/110
This thing's gonna be interesting. It has Unburdened and Limber as its abilities and has the new dual-typed move Flying Press, which is a Fighting-type attack that is also Flying-type. Being a Flying-type faster than the Base 108 Fighters with decent Flying-STAB is going to be big for it. It's also neutral to stealth rock, which is huge. It's just a tad under-powered and hasn't been confirmed to get any power-boosting moves as far as I know. It's also not stopping much with those defenses. Not quite Tomohawk, but it's not too bad.

Greninja (Water/Dark)
Base 80/90/75/100/75/120
We don't know much about its movepool at all, but it could make for an interesting Starmie alternative if it gets the goods.

Those two so far look as most interesting ones.

I really hope Greninja gets Swords Dance And/Or Nasty Plot as Greninja has great enough speed to abuse those and resistances/immunities to switch on. His bulk is reasonable enough to find that precious turn for set-up. While Nasty Plot looks better on paper with 100 SpA, it doesn't have any STAB priority unlike SD version and if both become available, then this Ninja Frog may become surprisingly hard to counter. You switch in special wall ? Swords Dance says hello. You switch in physical Wall ? Nasty Plot says hello. Also Nasty Plot is dark type move, so it should get it. Swords Dance probably as well.

While Hawlucha looks indeed underwhelming at first, if it gets right movepool, it won't be a problem. Good base Speed means that after Unburdun you outspeed everything you need, while let's hope this guy gets the combination of Acrobatics + Swords Dance + Close Combat (or High Jump Kick at least), as those two moves will more then make up for missing attack damage and Flying Gem obviously will activate Unburden. Choice Band set should be fine as well, as many Flying/Fighting moves have really high base power (Brave Bird, Close Combat, High Jump Kick, etc.). This one may be more interesting then we expect, as it has Ground immunity and some good resistances to switch in and set-up or just hit hard right of the bat. Maybe this one is a Flying Type which OU needed as Staraptor ended up as being too weak in the end (no STAB on Close Combat hurts).

 

[termi]

Welcome everybody to Gen 6, hyper offensive is the game and the only way to play.

If I really want to be disgusted I'll take a gander at bestgore, thank you.

On that note: Wouldn't you say with all these new additions to the meta that generally tend to be focused on bulky offense rather than fast hyperoffense (exceptions such as Noivern not having enough immediate power to abuse) and the addition of moves that tend to be focused more towards creating setup opportunity than towards hitting things really fucking hard (think of moves like Parting Shot, Baby-Doll Eyes, King's Shield etc. (and did you notice how we haven't seen any new moves with +100 BP yet?)). This also goes for things like Aegislash and its ability, it's obviously not meant to go down the "kill shit from turn one" road.

On that same note, did you notice how GameFreak is deliberately balancing things out a bit? Even they noticed how every gen has been more offensive than the other, with speed creeps everywhere and such, so they're giving things a twist with the new mons. The megas are there, of course, but only 1 per team, remember?

Basically, I call bs on your statement. I'm not gonna go ahead and say stall will be viable in the upper tiers again, but all I'm saying is that it would be ridiculous if the meta morphed into anall-out hyperoffensive fuckfest (in which case a lot of bans would happen because variety is a key ingredient to competitive Pokemon)

 

[higglybiggly]

Greninja will most likely get Swords Dance, since it is a ninja. Unless GF pulls one on us, with a "ninjas don't use swords" or some shit like that.

 

[the24th]

If I really want to be disgusted I'll take a gander at bestgore, thank you.

On that note: Wouldn't you say with all these new additions to the meta that generally tend to be focused on bulky offense rather than fast hyperoffense (exceptions such as Noivern not having enough immediate power to abuse) and the addition of moves that tend to be focused more towards creating setup opportunity than towards hitting things really fucking hard (think of moves like Parting Shot, Baby-Doll Eyes, King's Shield etc. (and did you notice how we haven't seen any new moves with +100 BP yet?)). This also goes for things like Aegislash and its ability, it's obviously not meant to go down the "kill shit from turn one" road.

On that same note, did you notice how GameFreak is deliberately balancing things out a bit? Even they noticed how every gen has been more offensive than the other, with speed creeps everywhere and such, so they're giving things a twist with the new mons. The megas are there, of course, but only 1 per team, remember?

Basically, I call bs on your statement. I'm not gonna go ahead and say stall will be viable in the upper tiers again, but all I'm saying is that it would be ridiculous if the meta morphed into anall-out hyperoffensive fuckfest (in which case a lot of bans would happen because variety is a key ingredient to competitive Pokemon)

Exactly, I don't know if you've been keeping up with the leaks thread, but even Aegislash's concept as a Pokemon in its ability, just as much as a third stage allowing for Doublade's access to Eviolite, balance is everything this generation. However, I don't even think this means stall is what Gen6 is leaning towards. What The LoudWendle considers "hyperoffensive" is really what rightly deserves to be called tanking, as said before.

Also, I really like your diction Robert Alfons ..."disgusted..."

 

[higglybiggly]

exactly, tanking hits, and hitting hard back, which not only do most of the Kalos Pokemon do, but even some of the megas as well, like Blastoise, Ampharos, and Mawile.

 

[the24th]

Hide

95 HP
60 OR 65 Atk
65 Def
110 SpA
130 SpD
60 OR 65 Spd

This is approximately Sylveon. We have it's raw stats now. I don't know how much analysis is warranted at this point, but I just thought this information would be relevant in this thread.

 

[blitzlefan]

I stay off this "Looking Ahead to Gen VI" thread for a few days and when I come back ...
my f_cking PokeBalls are all over the floor.

Mega Lucario with the potential Speed Boost? With a MASSIVE power upgrade? GG OU.
Mega Ampharos hitting the world with the power of Zeus? GG OU.
Mega Gengar? Ghost and Poison Buff? GG OU.
Dual Type Moves? GG Pokemon.

I can't even keep track of all these leaks. I might have to legit just cry the entire 20+ hours I play Pokemon X and Y.

Could people please stop doing this? "Oh geez that looks strong BIG NUMBERS so man it's going to ubers for sure even though I don't know the metagame nor all of the details about the metagame of the next generation!!!1111! Wahh wahh i hate X/Y!"
Also, Lucario gets Adaptability, not Speed Boost. Blaziken gets that.

Edit: Ohhh that makes a little more sense, the capitalized "Speed Boost" threw me off lol. Random capitalization is really obnoxious tbh.

 

[Green Thunder]

Could people please stop doing this? "Oh geez that looks strong BIG NUMBERS so man it's going to ubers for sure even though I don't know the metagame nor all of the details about the metagame of the next generation!!!1111! Wahh wahh i hate X/Y!"
Also, Lucario gets Adaptability, not Speed Boost. Blaziken gets that.

they meant lucario got a boost in speed
its been estimated that his speeds been boosted to 115

 

[the24th]

Tabuu

Looks like a broken metagame is on the way.

If you're not going to intelligently contribute to the discussion, I don't see why you would post.

I'm not a mod, but blitzlefan is somewhat in the right, for as you may have seen way earlier in the thread, GCSChris wasn't too appreciative of these comments. Though, seeing as you didn't simply make a ridiculous comment, in the future, just try to add why you think so.

 

[the24th]

aight will do.
although ... I don't think I need to state why A Lucario with an increase in speed and attack is worthy of hype.

Lol, to an extent...but that was an initial discussion on this thread, the viability of MLuc over Lucario, for 1) he doesn't get a speed boost upon MEvoing, and 2) LO Lucario is, again, still very viable aside of Adaptability MLuc.

EDIT: (MGengar was revealed)

 

[higglybiggly]

With all these other powerful megas floating around, I'd rather use normal Gengar instead of Mega Gengar, considering that even with it's normal base stats and typing it's going to wreck shit up. The only types that resist ghost are Dark and Normal now, and the only Dark pokemon in OU right now are cleanly OHKOed with Focus Blast. So as cool as Mega Gengar looks, I just don't think it's worth taking the mega spot when I can just have Gengar destroy stuff. On that note there are a few Megas who I will probably immediately build a team around. First is Garchomp. I honestly don't think people realize the gravity of this situation. It's probably gonna reach a 680 bst, since that's a reasonable and common number. The most comparable example to Mega Chomp is Kyub. With an increased Atk and spA, and a decrease in spd, their spreads should be very similar. What this means is that Mega Chomp is going to be excellent in putting immediate pressure on the opponent, tearing stall teams apart, and breaking practically all the walls viable in OU. However unlike Kyub it does not have a weakness to SR, in fact is has a resistance, which means it needs much less team support, and can switch in easily and often. Don't feel like explaining my other prefered megas but they are Lucario, Abomasnow, Charizard X/Y, and Blastoise. All others just don't fit with my playing style. I don't usually like Pokemon with only average bulk, and a terrible speed stat, and defensive megas aren't my cup of tea. I'd rather just choose a normal wall who can access lefties.