Other Looking Ahead to Gen VI Mark II (SEE POSTS #818 & #858)

[Broliftic]

Yep, I'll quote myself from earlier with different calcs.

Yeah, but even without recovery (provided he still gets Ice Shard), access to Rapid Spin along with calcs lead me to believe that this guy is going to be at least UU.
And since SR now does 20% (NOT CONFIRMED), he'll be able to switch in a little easier, too.

Can you source how rocks got nerfed?

It's in the spoilers thread, its a picture of a hippopotas and some other poke. I'll edit later with a pic.
e: Maybe not. The guy deleted the SR pic and some others say its the same. Still crossing my fingers, though.

 

[Mikasa]

The problem with all those MEvos is the 1 for team rule, this leads me to think some of those we are hyping (like Aero and ZardX) will see little usage because it is not only about being on par with our current OU mons, it is about being better (or having a niche over) ridiculously strong Pokémons like for example MegaLucario, just as an example people keep talking about how MegaZardX is a slightly better Salamence ("unburnable", better Stabs, Flare blitz amazing power) but using your Mega Slot for a slightly better Mence may not be a good idea when there is possible a MegaMence (just speculation since Chomp got one I think Mence may get too) who may be more than just slightly better than the regular version.

So yeah it's likely that while many of the MEvos seems really good they may end up on UU or BL when the pokémon itself is not good enough for OU.

 

[Immortal]

The problem with all those MEvos is the 1 for team rule, this leads me to think some of those we are hyping (like Aero and ZardX) will see little usage because it is not only about being on par with our current OU mons, it is about being better (or having a niche over) ridiculously strong Pokémons like for example MegaLucario, just as an example people keep talking about how MegaZardX is a slightly better Salamence ("unburnable", better Stabs, Flare blitz amazing power) but using your Mega Slot for a slightly better Mence may not be a good idea when there is possible a MegaMence (just speculation since Chomp got one I think Mence may get too) who may be more than just slightly better than the regular version.

So yeah its likely that while many of the MEvos seems really good they may end up on UU or BL when the pokémon itself is not good enough for OU.

yeah you could be right however pokemon like Mega gengar may not be Ou for long. Even though some mega pokemon may not see much use in ou, if they are too good for UU then they will end up stuck in BL or OU anyway. Another thing is some pokemon, ill stick with charizard x as the example, could be Ou because they fill a role. With all of the new targets for STAB fire attacks such as mega lucario, mega aggron, mega mawile, Aegislash and the many other steel types out there i could see Charizard X being OU even if it isnt as impressive and gengar or lucario statwise. With that being said I am wondering if Mega Charizard Y could be a UU candidate because of the nerf to drought, maybe mega aerodactyl as well

 

[higglybiggly]

I feel like when it gets to team building, people will start building teams around mega evos. So if you see a mega evo on the other team, chances are the other pokemon are going to be built to support it. This eases the predictions of the metagame somewhat and proves even further that we are leaning toward bulky offense, instead of the high risk high reward meta in 5th Gen. Although some people will take advantage of this and use a mega evo as a support pokemon, which the only ones I can think of are Mega Venusaur, Mega Mawile, and maybe Mega Absol because of magic bounce.

 

[IcyMan28]

So, Mega Aggron is confirmed to lose its Rock typing and gain the Filter ability, which is just ridiculous on top of its 180 Def (which may go up further). It could become a prime physical tank, honestly.

 

[higglybiggly]

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Aggron: 207-244 (60.17 - 70.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -that's with it's normal stats, filter, and pure steel typing. pretty scary.

 

[GCSChris]

Anyway, while this is not the place to discuss about an initial banlist for X/Y, I think I can safely say that Pokemon like Landorus-I, Excadrill and Tornadus-T will start OU in Gen VI.[/quote]
I agree, and this is really cool to know.

Let's avoid too much talk about tiering though, as Haunter just said

View attachment 2075
View attachment 2076
View attachment 2077

So the elemental trio of BP 120 moves have been nerfed to base 110. If this applies to other base 120 moves, like cc, focus blast, hydro pump, power whip, outrage, solarbeam, megahorn, superpower, hurricane, and the recoil moves (brave bird, flare blitz, double edge), would this increase the defensive, bulky nature this gen has been taking?

Also, according to the leaks thread, frost breath is now base 60 with 100% crit chance, basically making it an improved blizzard. Will it be used, or will its poor distribution bring it down?
EDIT: NVM (Mega) Abomasnow gets it. It will be used.

added. :]

I also added pictures of MegaTyranitar and MegaAagron. Does anyone have any info for this.

 

[Strykeypoo]

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion X-Scissor vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 166-196 (37.47 - 44.24%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 262-310 (60.5 - 71.59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Aggron: 207-244 (60.17 - 70.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

'Physical Wall' hasn't been a role there metagame has needed for quite a while, though. Dexoys-D was used primarily for its ability to set up hazards while shutting others , the same with Forretress to a lesser extent (with spinning capabilities), while Ferrothorn has hazards along side Leech Seed/Iron Barbs stall. There are plenty of pokemon , like Cress, that can wall in OU incredibly well. Not to accuse Mega Aggron of being awful, but I think we need to see what else it gets before throwing on praise.

 

[X5Dragon]

MegaGengar Calcs:

MegaGengar@Gengarite
Timid
Shadow Tag
120 HP/252 SpA/136 Speed (outspeeds Timid Starmie)

Shadow Ball
Focus Blast
Sludge Wave
Thunderbolt

HP: 60
Atk: 65
Def: 80
SpA: 170
SpD: 95
Spe: 130

*Steel type effectiveness change has been taken to account, included some switch in cases instead of using the obvious OHKO move to demonstrate power increase

Offensive

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 228+ SpD Amoonguss: 136-162 (31.48 - 37.5%) -- 96.73% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Amoonguss: 193-228 (44.67 - 52.77%) -- 89.06% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blastoise: 242-286 (66.85 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 243-286 (92.74 - 109.16%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Celebi: 278-330 (68.81 - 81.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 120 HP / 136 SpD Conkeldurr: 189-223 (49.6 - 58.53%) -- 99.61% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite: 160-189 (49.53 - 58.51%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Espeon: 336-396 (100.59 - 118.56%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 118-141 (33.52 - 40.05%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Forretress: 191-225 (53.95 - 63.55%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 184-217 (43.8 - 51.66%) -- 14.06% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Gastrodon: 142-168 (33.33 - 39.43%) -- 86.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 204-240 (57.95 - 68.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 222-262 (57.66 - 68.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 142-168 (33.8 - 40%) -- 95.95% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 208-246 (49.52 - 58.57%) -- 99.61% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Jellicent: 230-272 (56.93 - 67.32%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi: 236-278 (58.41 - 68.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 168-198 (55.81 - 65.78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 350-412 (86.41 - 101.72%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0- SpD Landorus-T: 214-253 (66.87 - 79.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 254-302 (69.78 - 82.96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Lucario: 214-253 (75.88 - 89.71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 175-207 (62.05 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mamoswine: 243-286 (67.31 - 79.22%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 160 SpD Metagross: 296-350 (81.31 - 96.15%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 320-380 (79.2 - 94.05%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Politoed: 252-298 (65.62 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Rotom-W: 112-133 (36.96 - 43.89%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 214-253 (64.65 - 76.43%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 192-226 (68.32 - 80.42%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 224 HP / 32 SpD Skarmory: 205-243 (62.69 - 74.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 116+ SpD Slowking: 242-288 (61.57 - 73.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Starmie: 368-434 (113.93 - 134.36%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Tangrowth: 648-764 (160.79 - 189.57%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 216-256 (59.5 - 70.52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and weather

252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 350-412 (108.35 - 127.55%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Thundurus-T: 255-301 (85.28 - 100.66%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 226-266 (60.42 - 71.12%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus: 306-360 (102.34 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Toxicroak: 228-268 (61.95 - 72.82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and weather

252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar: 460-544 (113.86 - 134.65%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon: 266-314 (57.45 - 67.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur: 160-190 (50.15 - 59.56%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 153-181 (41.23 - 48.78%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 236+ SpD Zapdos: 150-177 (39.16 - 46.21%) -- 95.31% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Defensive

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 120 HP / 4 Def Gengar: 156-186 (53.6 - 63.91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 120 HP / 4 Def Gengar: 184-217 (63.23 - 74.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Gengar in rain: 102-121 (35.05 - 41.58%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Hydreigon Dragon Pulse vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 165-195 (56.7 - 67.01%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

220 SpA Infernape Fire Blast vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Gengar in rain: 84-100 (28.86 - 34.36%) -- 3.54% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 120 HP / 4 Def Gengar: 130-154 (44.67 - 52.92%) -- 23.83% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 216-255 (74.22 - 87.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Gengar in rain: 306-361 (105.15 - 124.05%) -- guaranteed OHKO

240+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Gengar in rain: 352-415 (120.96 - 142.61%) -- guaranteed OHKO

4 Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 120 HP / 4 Def Gengar: 320-378 (109.96 - 129.89%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B Dragon Claw vs. 120 HP / 4 Def Gengar: 274-324 (94.15 - 111.34%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Magneton Thunderbolt vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 153-181 (52.57 - 62.19%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

56+ SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Gengar in rain: 246-289 (84.53 - 99.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 120 HP / 4 Def Gengar: 241-285 (82.81 - 97.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Pursuit vs. 120 HP / 4 Def Gengar: 260-306 (89.34 - 105.15%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO

0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 120 HP / 4 Def Gengar: 129-153 (44.32 - 52.57%) -- 17.19% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 120 HP / 4 Def Gengar: 195-231 (67.01 - 79.38%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 177-208 (60.82 - 71.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Sharp Beak Tornadus Hurricane vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 238-282 (81.78 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 88-104 (30.24 - 35.73%) -- 36.77% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 70-82 (24.05 - 28.17%) -- possible 4HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 120 HP / 4 Def Gengar in rain: 240-283 (82.47 - 97.25%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 129-153 (44.32 - 52.57%) -- 17.19% chance to 2HKO

 

[Halcyon.]

Cresselia also has no offensive presence and a terrible movepool. Rhyperior has a terrible typing with x4 weaknesses to Grass and Water in a rain dominated metagame. I don't think the comparison is fair, to be honest. Mega Aggron will almost definitely get an attack boost to its already decent 110 Attack and a boost to its titanic 180 Defense. Add on Filter and mono-Steel typing and we could have a fantastic tank. Just one more reason never to click Outrage next gen...

 

[higglybiggly]

Aggron will probably get a "significant" attack boost which is 40-60 base points, and maybe a spD boost (which would be horrifying), or even a defense boost(also horrifying). Just a prediction but the stats could be around 70/160/190/60/100/50. This gives it a 630 bst which is a 100 stat boost from the normal one. If this is the spread then it's an absolute monster. It can take virtually any attack and hit back for insane amounts of damage. Of course the STAB on Head Smash will be missed but this Gen Steel is a great offensive typing as well, taking care of those roaming fairies. Pair this up with a Dragonite and you have yourself a decent core.

 

[Immortal]

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion X-Scissor vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 166-196 (37.47 - 44.24%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 262-310 (60.5 - 71.59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Aggron: 207-244 (60.17 - 70.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

mega gengar will laugh at choice band/scarf terrakions who lock on to CC while he traps and kills them

 

[IcyMan28]

New move info just in.

The Surf-class attacks have had their power reduced to 90, so they're more akin to Psychic. Additionally, Will-o-Wisp's accuracy has now been bumped to 85%.

 

[Immortal]

New move info just in.

The Surf-class attacks have had their power reduced to 90, so they're more akin to Psychic. Additionally, Will-o-Wisp's accuracy has now been bumped to 85%.

Hmm thats interesting, they may still be worth using over fireblast hydro pump and such... do you have a picture?

 

[Strykeypoo]

Cresselia also has no offensive presence and a terrible movepool. Rhyperior has a terrible typing with x4 weaknesses to Grass and Water in a rain dominated metagame. I don't think the comparison is fair, to be honest. Mega Aggron will almost definitely get an attack boost to its already decent 110 Attack and a boost to its titanic 180 Defense. Add on Filter and mono-Steel typing and we could have a fantastic tank. Just one more reason never to click Outrage next gen...

Rhyperior also has the ability to hold an item, a special defense buff in sand, a resistance to fire and an immunity to electric. While they're not the same, they're similar enough to see where skepticism about a hard hitting physical tank comes from. The biggest problem is also that you'll have to choose this improved Rhyperior over something like Mega-Lucario.

On the other hand though, I would like to apply what you said to Mega Tyranitar. Considering Tyranitar's already superior offensive typing, stat spread and move pool, I wonder where we will see the extra stats distributed. Calcs on this thread have shown how much a mildly defensive Mega-Aerodactyl can take, so I'd like to see what would happen should Mega Tyranitar gets an extra +20 in special defense.

mega gengar will laugh at choice band/scarf terrakions who lock on to CC while he traps and kills them

If Mega Gengar gets Shadow Tag as is claimed, unless the mechanics of that ability have changed significantly, I don't think that will be a concern.

 

[GCSChris]

New move info just in.

The Surf-class attacks have had their power reduced to 90, so they're more akin to Psychic. Additionally, Will-o-Wisp's accuracy has now been bumped to 85%.

Please provide a source if possible; I'll add it as soon as i get a source. Pictures are the most reliable source we have and are fun to look at :P Thanks.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

If true, that would be just awesome as a stall tool, that's the same accuracy of Toxic in past generations, there isn't much of a reason not to use it now honestly.

Edit: Oh breaking news! Mega-Medicham confirmed with stats of 60/100/85/80/85/100 and it still has Pure Power.

This gives Meda-Medicham an attack of 598 (with Jolly). To put that into comparison, that's more attack than Deoxys-A with Life Orb: 596.

This thing is going to hit like a truck to anything it touches.

 

[Yuttt]

... -_- Why does that thing look like sylveon

Anyways, it now has a decent Speed of 100, plus that monstrous attack stat. It outdamages non-megacham with LO, but not with Band. Of course, it can still switch moves, and has a great STAB move in HJK, as well as Psycho Cut/Zen headbutt. However, with that speed tier, will it really be worth it to run Adamant over Jolly? Also, it easily 2HKOs everything but Psychic types, making it a prime choice for a T-tar partner. It 2HKOs Tangrowth and Hippo with Jolly HJK. WOW

 

[Hollandoh]

Menacing as megacham looks, It might just be too slow to take up your sole mega slot on a team. The inability to run a scarf significantly hinders its sweeping ability and 60/80/85 defenses cant take too many hits... it would be devastating to stall though

 

[Mood4food77]

i mean...do you really want that thing to be able to take hits

 

[IcyMan28]

I don't have a picture to confirm, but it was confirmed by Serebii, which is generally a reliable source. He also confirmed the decrease in power of the Thunder suite moves and Thunderbolt suite move.

 

[SpinningB]

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/117531-Dawn-of-the-Final-Day-The-Download-Thread

 

[SagMyPants]

Did we ever get a cap on Sylveon's stats?

 

[dwarfstar]

Did we ever get a cap on Sylveon's stats?

We've calculated the base stats as 95 HP / 60 Atk / 65 Def / 110 SpA / 130 SpD/ 65 Spe.

 

[Fennekin]

I don't feel like reading 41 pages right now. Can anyone fill me in regarding Sylveon's theorymon?
So far, it looks like a prime special tank, but Hidden Power's nerf might become an issue. Being rather slow and Scizor bait doesn't seem fun, either, but I can still imagine Sylveon being somewhat usable in OU.
Also, any word on Aromatisse? I absolutely love that thing, but I'm at a loss on its apparent competitive viability.