Itemize (Now playable on Rom!)

Sorry for my own inactivity, but Real Life™ has me busy. It seems to do that whenever I post a new meta... >.>

But, tinkering with Light Ball's effects is outside the scope of this meta, so therefore isn't an option. If it's proving to be a problem, then it should be looked at. (Is it? I mean, according to those who're playing? I've been forced to be very inactive lately, so don't know myself.)
 
This looks like a really fun meta, hope it wins OM of the month soon. Some sets I thought of:

Excadrill @ Quick Powder
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide

Quick Powder mimicks Sand Rush while still letting me run Mold Breaker. Swords Dance takes Excadrill's Attack up to an amazing 810. Earthquake gets STAB and hits Levitating mons thanks to Mold Breaker. Iron Head also gets STAB and wrecks Fairy types. Rock Slide gets some additional coverage.

Salamence @ Light Ball
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Iron Tail
- Earthquake / Outrage / Roost

MixMence 2.0! Draco Meteor wrecks anything that doesn't resist it or isn't called Blissey. Fire Blast wrecks Steel types (not named Heatran). Iron Tail wrecks Clefable and Diancie. Earthquake wrecks Heatran; Outrage is a strong physical STAB; Roost restores HP. Light Ball gives a +2 boost to both attack stats, making this set hit incredibly hard.
 
Or Eviolite/Metal Powder Blissey. Furfrou is sadly one of those Pokemon with some interesting gimmicks but is utterly destroyed by a terrible movepool and pretty bad stats. It'd be nice if it was actually usable in battle.
 
I had not played this yet, but my guess that this OM is like Rock-Scizors-Paper matches the reality?

Basically Light Ball wall breaks Eviolite which tanks Quick Powder which revenges Light Ball.
 
Quick Powder.




If Light Ball is a problem, then Deep Sea Tooth and Thick Club are just as bad for 90% of all usable Pokemon.
I know it's just theorymon atm, but the whole point of light ball being OP is that powerful mixed attackers CANNOT be walled outside of a few niche Pokemon - if any at all. I mean c'mon, do you really think stall would proliferate if powerhouses like Hoopa-U and Kyurem-B can DOUBLE BOTH THEIR OFFENSES? This means that walls specialized in walling either physical or special attackers (ie metal powder and deep sea scale users) are annihilated on their weaker defensive side, and mixed walls can only use eviolite so they are outgunned defensively (1.5x boost vs 2x boost, which one do you think has the advantage?). Now you might go on saying "but pokemon get a 1.5x boost advantage in regular play as well thanks to choice items", well yeah but choice items can easily be played around, which is why most wallbreakers rarely go choiced (when do you ever see choice band diggersby for example), now these Pokemon can use whatever move they want with zero drawbacks.
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Talonflame @ Light Ball
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Ability: Gale Wings
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost

RIP Light Ball. RIP Eviolite. RIP Quick Powder. RIP EVERYTHING!!!
 
Talonflame @ Light Ball
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Ability: Gale Wings
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost

RIP Light Ball. RIP Eviolite. RIP Quick Powder. RIP EVERYTHING!!!
Thick club is better. You aren't mixed and if you're opponent would come up with the stupid idea to use trick, he doesn't necessarily have an advantage
 
That's why I said before that it would be great idea if we implement item clause on this metagame. It'll produce less stale teams at the very least.
 

sin(pi)

lucky n bad
I know it's just theorymon atm, but the whole point of Light ball being OP is that powerful mixed attackers CANNOT be walled outside of a few niche Pokemon - if any at all. I mean c'mon, do you really think stall would proliferate if powerhouses like Hoopa-U and Kyurem-B can DOUBLE BOTH THEIR OFFENSES? This means that walls specialized in walling either physical or special attackers (ie metal powder and deep sea scale users) are annihilated on their weaker defensive side, and mixed walls can only use eviolite so they are outgunned defensively (1.5x boost vs 2x boost, which one do you think has the advantage?). Now you might go on saying "but pokemon get a 1.5x boost advantage in regular play as well thanks to choice items", well yeah but choice items can easily be played around, which is why most wallbreakers rarely go choiced (when do you ever see choice band diggersby for example), now these Pokemon can use whatever move they want with zero drawbacks.
I want to address the Light Ball vs Eviolite discussion because a lot of people have disregarded the maths. If you're a wallbreaker which isn't choiced (ie most of them), you are almost certainly carrying a LO which gives a 1.33x boost to attacks. Replacing this with a Light Ball changes the 1.33x multiplier to a 2x multiplier - this is equivalent to a 1.5x increase in power compared to standard, which is the same gain defensive mons get. (it's a tiny bit more but that's negligible). As an example:

252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 84-99 (13 - 15.4%) -- possible 7HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Chansey: 82-97 (12.7 - 15.1%) -- possible 7HKO

As you can see, the damage outputs are nearly identical (note the first is LB vs Eviolite and the second is LO vs no item)

The reasons this meta are more offensive are:
-Life Orb users benefit from the removal of its residual damage, while anything which used lefties (especially those without recovery) is worn down much more easily.
-Knock Off becomes insanely spammable, even more so than in standard - stall will need a Koff-resisting Mega, and there are precious few of those.
-On the note of Megas, these suffer from not carrying an item, so don't expect to see the Charizards as much. This is huge for stall because Mega Sableye now gets ruined by the things it's supposed to check.
-Anything that doesn't run Eviolite is liable to get KO'd by a mixed attacker, as calcs in the thread have shown.
-Assvest becomes entirely outclassed, so mons that relied on it drop in viability (they become comparatively frailer). However I'm pretty sure it's used more on balance/BO, so that's maybe not so relevant.

On the other hand, Band and Specs users are actually weaker comparatively, though they can now switch up moves. In addition one of the scarier stallbreakers in MGardevior is less viable by virtue of being a mega, which aids stall (there is still Hoopa and Manaphy, although Manaphy has to give up its lefties if it wants to break Eviolite Blissey).

Talonflame and Bisharp are probably going to be S-rank, Talon because it cleans up vs offense and Bisharp as a wallbreaker/stallbreaker which can beat offense with SPunch (more or less the same as standard, just these two got even better).
 
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Some maybe better calcs...

252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 136-161 (39.8 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Light Ball Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 209-247 (61.2 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Light Ball Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Mew: 140-165 (41 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


Assuming walls are running Eviolite, it looks like walls are only slightly worse off. And this was using uninvested Mew, whom I picked for its run of the mill straight 100 base stats. Stall looks like it'll be fine, just a little harder.

(I got my numbers by using Pikachu and changing its stats to Talonflame's and using Abra with Mew's stats.)
 

Maleovex

Lt. Col. of The Kyergrzstan Killer Beez
Some maybe better calcs...

252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 136-161 (39.8 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Light Ball Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 209-247 (61.2 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Light Ball Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Mew: 140-165 (41 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


Assuming walls are running Eviolite, it looks like walls are only slightly worse off. And this was using uninvested Mew, whom I picked for its run of the mill straight 100 base stats. Stall looks like it'll be fine, just a little harder.

(I got my numbers by using Pikachu and changing its stats to Talonflame's and using Abra with Mew's stats.)
Did you change pikachu's typing for STAB, cos I got these:

252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 204-242 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Light Ball Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 313-370 (91.7 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Light Ball Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Mew: 210-247 (61.5 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
Did you change pikachu's typing for STAB, cos I got these:

252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 204-242 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Light Ball Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 313-370 (91.7 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Light Ball Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Mew: 210-247 (61.5 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Whoops. I thought it was a little low. Either way, the damage difference still isn't that much. There might be some 3HKOs becoming 2HKOs and stuff, but there won't be too many.
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
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With there being that ditto semistall team which has gained a little traction, I kinda started thinking about how it'd work in this meta. With Quick Powder being a direct upgrade to Choice Scarf, it is able to achieve its goal with much more consistency as it no longer has to lock itself into a move in order to RK stuff. This also gives it wider utility due to its ability to basically copy any forms of utility which your opponent is able to use, allowing you to get up stuff like emergency rocks/spikes or to inflict paralysis/toxic/whatever on stuff that would otherwise cause trouble for the team. Just a thought more than anything.

Edit: also, I think a better comparison than Rock-Paper-Scissors here is that which is present within the Fire Emblem games (sword-axe-spear) due to the fact that, unlike in RPS, you are able to mix and match your teams so that they have more than just one of the three options. For the sake of making the comparisons clear, lets say that Light Ball, Soul Dew, Thick Club and Deep Sea Tooth are the same as swords, Eviolite, Metal Powder and Deep Sea Scale are the same as axes and that Quick Powder is the same as spears. In this metagame, you could in theory have an all-swords team, which, in theory, would usually lose v.s. spear teams and usually win v.s. axe teams. However, another sword build would be to have 3 or 4 swords and two/three utilising items from the other class options (e.g. 4 swords and two axes). This would be a sword-based build, and this example would imporove its matchup v.s. spear-based builds at the cost of worsening its matchup v.s. sword-based builds from a 1:1 matchup to a 1:2 matchup. Ultimately, I feel that this is going to become a big part of weakness management - just like in the fire emblem games - where you will have to pick and choose what archetypes you want to win v.s. and what archetypes you want to lose v.s. through careful consideration of team aim and careful analysis of metagame trends.

This probably seems pointless, but I felt like typing is because I like this fire emblem comparisom much more than the simple RPS one that people have been using so far.
 
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