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Iron Chef: Smogon UU Edition - Teambuilding Competition, R10 - Cantata! (See p#595)
- Thread starter Hogg
- Start date
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Hogg, I won vs. LilOu, not lost.
Sorry - fixed!
Edit: actually it turns out I can't unbold something on mobile - adding a note and will fix properly when I get to a computer.
Iron Chef Euphonos is here to rate dishes, as promised!
CREATIVITY: 4 / 5
USE OF THEME: 5 / 5
EFFECTIVENESS: 8 / 10
At first glance, I found Articuno and Swellow being fun choices here as they're very underrated in themselves. What gave me the (slightest) surprise during our battle is putting Haze on Articuno and Will-O-Wisp on Chandelure. Finally, I was very curious of the item used by Moltres during that battle (as I'm anticipating a Life Orb set to whittle Slowking away at least), but I found out in the reveal that you equipped Sky Plate to power Hurricane up, and you actually put in Defog to ensure Fire Blast and Hurricane will not miss. Overall, however, I can't give you a full 5 in the Creativity criterion because I am not fazed by some of the sets your underrated Pokemon use firsthand; although some of the Pokemon you choose are fun at least, which is a valiant effort on your part in surprising me.
USE OF THEME: 5 / 5
While I am not fazed with your sets, I am still glad that you managed to incorporate those strong Flying moves (Moltres's Hurricane and Swellow's Brave Bird) which can overwhelm a pool of checks and counters with them. This is one of the biggest assets this team has, and I find them shaping the metagame even further once executed well.
EFFECTIVENESS: 8 / 10
There are dishes that involve a greater amount of risk for a chef to pull off, but once successful will be rewarded greatly. Following this analogy, this team is no exception, and you managed to pull it off against my team. It has a high risk because: 1) looking at the team in itself, you are seriously weak to Mega Aerodactyl (as you have stated in the description, and most specifically a Hone Claws set with Aqua Tail > Earthquake, but who runs that lol), and 2) you need to keep Gligar alive if you want to sponge all those Volt Switches, as if it is down, you'll get wrecked by a strong Electric attack, hence I find Rotom-Heat (most notably its Specs set) very annoying to face (although you managed to survive the onslaught); you saw that knocked out an Articuno (that I found out you invested its Special Defense too heavily) with Overheat. However, with your attitude in playing this team, I would find your team granting a moderate, if not huge, success. Keep it up!
TOTAL SCORE: 17 / 20
CREATIVITY: 5 / 5
USE OF THEME: 1 / 5
EFFECTIVENESS: 4 / 10
TOTAL SCORE: 10 / 20
At first glance, I was really skeptical as to why you would bring only one Flying Pokemon (Braviary) when this team requires at least two Flying moves for such a team to be qualified. During the match, I found out that you actually used Hurricane Whimsicott, and you revealed to me that time that your Mienshao has Acrobatics, although you didn't manage to show it off. You nearly got me with your Mega Absol running Swords Dance, which I also consider an underrated threat with high opportunity costs of setting up Swords Dance, but with a high reward of sweeping teams. Overall, I judge most of the sets in your team as very fun to see, thus I would give you a considerably high grade.
USE OF THEME: 1 / 5
Although the creativity is there, the problem lies with the use of the theme (which would also affect the effectiveness of the team) as I feel that you use Hurricane on Whimsicott and Acrobatics on Mienshao just to fulfill the quota or trying to be creative.
EFFECTIVENESS: 4 / 10
Unfortunately, a former judge of this project whom I can barely remember (unless I read the whole thread again) said that creativity doesn't always translate to effectiveness, and this team somehow is not an exception. Although you won a match against one of the Iron Chefs, I feel like there is a lack of direction to the team; that's why there is a degree of difficulty of letting one of your Pokemon set up a boosting move and effectively sweep.
TOTAL SCORE: 10 / 20
CREATIVITY: 4 / 5
USE OF THEME: 4 / 5
EFFECTIVENESS: 7.5 / 10
TOTAL SCORE: 15.5 / 20
I find my Iron Chef battle being one of the most amusing matches I've ever been into this Iron Chef challenge so far mainly because of the Pokemon that you chose revealed in the Team Preview itself. I actually salute you for using Probopass in a team, seriously, although I'm very skeptical with the set that you made once it was revealed (I'll place my skepticism in the Effectiveness criterion). Then, putting up Tailwind on a Choice Specs-equipped Tornadus surprised me (well, Mandibuzz knocking off the item really helped, though, but I wonder how it goes when you pull off a Tailwind like that). Finally, you caught me off guard when you actually used Zen Headbutt on Virizion. While the rest of the team is bog standard, these three Pokemon are enough to warrant you a high grade for this criterion.
USE OF THEME: 4 / 5
I can see your intention of overwhelming the pool of checks and counters with Specs Tornadus and LO Honchkrow (with Tailwind giving a little nostalgia to the Fast and the Furious theme, but that's besides the point). I don't think you even need Acrobatics on Crobat because it can function better as a pivot from my point of view (although the less damage from Knock Off can help).
EFFECTIVENESS: 7.5 / 10
I find this team another example of a high-risk, high-reward team, and one of the better teams so far, because playing against a well-played Mamoswine or Mega Abomasnow (Swords Dance variants) could be very annoying to face. Now, for my skepticism in the Probopass set, I find Magneton being a better Steel Killer (and it's underrated as well) that could break a lot of Steel-types well, especially Empoleon. Otherwise, I find this team granting you moderate to large success, so keep up the good work!
TOTAL SCORE: 15.5 / 20
CREATIVITY: 3 / 5
USE OF THEME: 4.5 / 5
EFFECTIVENESS: 7 / 10
TOTAL SCORE: 14.5 / 20
I may only find Bulk Up Braviary and mixed Shell Smash Cloyster being the sets that would catch me off guard when we face each other; the rest of the team is standard at best.
USE OF THEME: 4.5 / 5
You managed to incorporate these strong Flying attacks (boosted Acrobatics from Fletchinder and Brave Bird from Braviary) which can help overwhelm a pool of checks and counters with them, which gives you a considerably high grade for this criterion (with a touch of Memento from Dugtrio and Explosion from Cloyster giving more nostalgia to the Kamikaze theme, but that's besides the point). The reason why I can't give you a full 5: you lacked Aerial Ace on Mega Aerodactyl; while it isn't part of the requirement, that would be a whole new world of bird spam in spirit.
EFFECTIVENESS: 7 / 10
While it is a fairly simple Hyper Offense team, it is actually effective. What would bother this team is that you have barely anything to take care of a well-played Doublade: it can switch out of Dugtrio's traps; Earthquake from Mega Aerodactyl takes a not-so-considerable chunk; and Hydro Pump Cloyster is your most reliable way of beating it, but it has a potential to miss. Another Pokemon that would be very annoying to face is Rotom-Heat as it can use Volt Switch to its respective counters (and could Overheat Dugtrio on the switch, and that can't trap Rotom-Heat as well). Otherwise, this team deems quite fun to use here, and it would grant you moderate to large success with it. It would've been a different world if it weren't for haxing Iron Chef Christo to hell and back with it, but congratulations for winning your Iron Chef match!
TOTAL SCORE: 14.5 / 20
CREATIVITY: 4 / 5
USE OF THEME: 3 / 5
EFFECTIVENESS: 6 / 10
TOTAL SCORE: 13 / 20
Your team has some very interesting options, to say the least, and if we face each other, I will be thinking which Pokemon that can learn strong Flying attacks given your team composition--this is exactly the same perception I would have as Nightingales's team. Speaking of Nightingales, you are the other bearer of that Hurricane Whimsicott that people are somehow hyped for. That Stall-breaking Noivern could catch me off guard, while your Forretress running Toxic and Mega Ampharos running Agility could be scary at first glance. You'd be given a high grade here, but there's a degree of predictability in the creativity that people may not get fazed in these things.
USE OF THEME: 3 / 5
Again, I feel that Whimsicott pulling off a Hurricane is somehow slapped; however, it is a valiant effort that you managed to incorporate Noivern's Hurricane so as to weaken certain defensive Pokemon paired with Super Fang. I feel that this team needs more stronger Flying attackers paired with that Noivern's stallbreaking set so that the pressure that you exert to the opposition is high enough to prevent from setting up status moves, especially Hazard-stacking ones.
EFFECTIVENESS: 6 / 10
Based from your match with LilOuOn, your team struggles to deal with Special Salamence; and in my perspective, Hydreigon (could be Taunt sets, all-out-attacking sets, or what-not) could also be a pain in this team (given Dark Pulse deals significant damage to your Whimsicott when not EV'd in HP significantly). You need to keep Forretress alive in order to survive onslaughts coming from Swords Dance Mega Abomasnow that can seriously damage this team (unless your Ampharos didn't pull off a Mega Evolution beforehand; but I doubt it would kill with Focus Blast). Try to patch up those weaknesses, given this is a balanced team (I assume), and you'll get a more solid team.
TOTAL SCORE: 13 / 20
CREATIVITY: 4 / 5
USE OF THEME: 5 / 5
EFFECTIVENESS: 5 / 10
TOTAL SCORE: 14 / 20
You made a valiant effort in surprising me--that cash Sky Attack + Thief Crobat, Special Attacking Chesnaught, and even Swords Dance Jumpluff are very fun choices here. Same perception with R0ady's on the realm of creativity: half of the Pokemon are standard at best (though that Thunder on Mega Ampharos is a neat bonus).
USE OF THEME: 5 / 5
Your team is more offensive-oriented than it looked at first glance. You are the first person to run Sky Attack on Crobat; coupled that with Acrobatics on Swords Dance Jumpluff, I can see your intention on overwhelming the opponent's team with Flying STAB's alongside the rest of your team.
EFFECTIVENESS: 5 / 10
Do you even consider Mega Abomasnow (or to an extent, Mamoswine and Shell Smash Cloyster) being a threat to this team with an Ice Shard? These Pokemon would flat-out 6-0 your team if you don't tread carefully. As a result, that alone reduced your Effectiveness rating very significantly; but if you try to put in something that would deal with Pokemon with Ice Shard (I think someone better than Chesnaught so as to handle Mamoswine as well), I could give you a higher grade for it. Otherwise, your team is a very fun sight as you made use some of the novelty Pokemon and some of the cash sets.
TOTAL SCORE: 14 / 20
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Well, at least I got the 5 in creative.
Hey Hogg, I would also like to join the next round if thats possible. Ive heard about Iron Chef but didnt really know what it was but this sounds awesome
I should have some time tomorrow to finish my own judging.
Just looked over the teams and realized nobody used mixed Expert Belt Crobat, which makes me a bit sad. Bats aren't birds though so not too sad.
Judging!
Serperior for Uber
Nightingales
r0ady
DoesntKnowHowToPlay
Cynthia's Chomp
vexyyyy
Final tally and next round incoming shortly!
Serperior for Uber
- Originality: 5. The Moltres/Arti core is a risky one, but a lot of fun. You also pack some nice surprises like your status moves on Chandy/Gligar, and your Swellow is an unexpected threat with a great Speed tier for the metagame. The general team structure here is unique as well. Nicely done.
- Use of Theme: 4. Even if all your birds don't necessarily have Brave Bird/Hurricane, this is undoubtedly a birdspam team.
- Effectiveness: 7.5. Very solid team, though Mega-Aero just kind of bodies it. Yes, you have Gligar and Chandelure, but Chandelure gets outsped and OHKO'd, and Gligar can only touch Aero if you run Toxic over U-turn (and even then you straight up lose to Taunt Aero). You also have major trouble with Heliolisk, who puts in huge damage on every 'mon you've got, and who outspeeds everyone bar Swellow (who wears itself down naturally thanks to status orb). Really nice team, but its weakness to common threats keeps me from scoring higher than this, although I think with a little bit of fiddling this could be fantastic.
Nightingales
- Originality: 5. Wow - you really took my comments last round to heart, didn't you? Well, there's no denying that this team is original, with EBelt Luke, Megahorn Absol, Hurricane Whimsi and SDpass Mienshao.
- Use of Theme: 1. Frankly, it seems like Hurricane on Whimsi and Acrobatics on Mienshao were more or less tacked on for the purpose of the competition, as neither one is actually that effective compared to other options they get.
- Effectiveness: 4. Several powerful sweepers, but no Stealth Rock to soften opposing walls, no reliable way of supporting them, and a general lack of team cohesion. I also question some of the move choices - for example, Megahorn on Mega-Absol doesn't really provide anything useful in terms of coverage as compared to moves like Superpower, Play Rough or Fire Blast. Hurricane on Whimsi is another odd choice - it's neat that Whimsi learns it, but Moonblast -hits harder without the terrible miss chance. CB Braviary is pretty sweet though.7.5.
r0ady
- Originality: 4. PROBOPASS! Haha I love it. You've got a fairly unique team composition and Probopass/Virizion as underrated threats in this metagame. The bar for originality was set high this round, but this is still a very original team.
- Use of Theme: 5. Three birds plus Probopass to break down each other's checks - can't really go wrong with that.
- Effectiveness: 7.5. With Tornadus/Crobat/Honchkrow to break down bulky mons and Probopass to do the rest, you'll be able to break through a lot of standard cores. You still have trouble with some common 'mons though, such as Empoleon (Superpower from Krow handles it, yes, but Krow can't switch in).
DoesntKnowHowToPlay
- Originality: 3.5. Solidly original team - definitely not a standard team, with a couple of unique sets and a nice team construction, but you didn't blow me away with originality either.
- Use of Theme: 4.5. This is about as classic as it gets: three birds and way to trap Steels. Your use of the theme is a little more traditional than r0ady's, so I'm not going to give you the full 5, but this is a great example of how to play birds.
- Effectiveness: 7.5. Once again this is a classic way to spam a type: three strong birds plus a trapper and hazard core to break down any possible checks and fly you home to victory. You still have a problem with Steels, especially things like Doublade and Aggron that either ignore your trap or just don't care, but it's a nice team nonetheless.
Cynthia's Chomp
- Originality: 3.5. Ah, very cool stuff here. I love teams that look like standard balance cores on the outside only to pack a bunch of nasty surprises. Agility Ampharos is rarely seen these days but can definitely be a threat, while I've never seen stallbreaker Noivern used before. Hurricane Whimsi can also perhaps catch people off-guard.
- Use of Theme: 2. I feel like this team only incidentally hit requirements - the flying spam doesn't really seem central to the team construction at all. The Noivern set is enough to bump this up to a 2 in my books, but I can't really give much more than that.
- Effectiveness: 6. You've got a solid balance core backing up some decent sweepers, but I'm not 100% convinced that this team will be effective in the current meta. Crocune and Ampharos are your only real sweepers, and both can have trouble with common bulky cores. Stallbreaker Noivern is a cool idea to help break those bulkier teams that can put a stop to you, but its typing and mediocre defenses make me wonder if Super Fang is really worth it to run this over a more reliable stallbreaker such as Hydreigon. With some good plays I think this team can do alright on the ladder, but I think it will be at a disadvantage against many common teams.
vexyyyy
- Originality: 5. Oh another Slurpuff team from... wait, that didn't say Slurpuff. Did that really say Jumpluff? And that Power Herb Thief Crobat, and Frenzy Plant special Chesnaught and... OK, yeah, while I might question the viability of some of these choices and sets, there is no denying that they are crazy original.
- Use of Theme: 3. You fulfill the requirements, and do so with a couple of unique sets, but I don't know that this team necessarily exemplifies the theme, so I'll stick with a 3 here.
- Effectiveness: 4. Well, I guess I can definitely give points for a big set of brass balls, because that's what it takes to play this team. You appear to be running no-fucks given all out offense with a bunch of risky moves. Unfortunately, an offensive team that gives up as much momentum as yours does will not really be reliable in this metagame, as your replays demonstrated, and I can't really see this winning against any decent teams outside of the surprise factor.
Final tally and next round incoming shortly!
I must be creative.
And that's a wrap! Congrats to Serperior for Uber for taking home the gold with 18.75 points!
I'll have next round posted a little later - round has been selected, but my laptop is about to die.
- Serperior for Uber: 16.75 + 2 = 18.75
- r0ady: 16 + 2 = 18
- DoesntKnowHowToPlay: 15 + 2 = 17
- Cynthia's Chomp: 12.25 - 1 = 11.25
- vexyyyy: 13 - 2 = 11
- Nightingales: 10 - 1 = 9
This round's theme is...
You have just under one week to complete your dishes, PM them to the chairman, and challenge one of our five Iron Chefs on the thread. The deadline for teambuilding and challenges expires Saturday, August 1 at 11:59 PM GMT.
Heart of the Underdog!
For round 8 on Iron Chef, our secret ingredient is all about letting those underdogs shine! This round, it is time to show off how even the underdog can hang out with the pack given a strong enough move.
In order for your dish to qualify this round, you must have at least two pokemon with a Base Attack of less than 100, and an attack with a Base Power of 100 or greater. So, for example, Crobat (base Attack 90) using Brave Bird (base power 120) would qualify, while Shaymin with Seed Flare would not, as its base Special Attack is 100. This round is all about weaker 'mons who make up for it by using strong moves. Let's see what you can do!
As in previous rounds, Acrobatics DOES qualify as a move with a Base Power of 100 or greater as long as the user is itemless or has a way of getting rid of its item (pinch berry, Fling, etc.).
Will the underdog be able to triumph over its foes? Or will our Iron Chefs stomp these underdogs down? Who will you root for in the next round of Iron Chef?
For round 8 on Iron Chef, our secret ingredient is all about letting those underdogs shine! This round, it is time to show off how even the underdog can hang out with the pack given a strong enough move.
In order for your dish to qualify this round, you must have at least two pokemon with a Base Attack of less than 100, and an attack with a Base Power of 100 or greater. So, for example, Crobat (base Attack 90) using Brave Bird (base power 120) would qualify, while Shaymin with Seed Flare would not, as its base Special Attack is 100. This round is all about weaker 'mons who make up for it by using strong moves. Let's see what you can do!
As in previous rounds, Acrobatics DOES qualify as a move with a Base Power of 100 or greater as long as the user is itemless or has a way of getting rid of its item (pinch berry, Fling, etc.).
Will the underdog be able to triumph over its foes? Or will our Iron Chefs stomp these underdogs down? Who will you root for in the next round of Iron Chef?
You have just under one week to complete your dishes, PM them to the chairman, and challenge one of our five Iron Chefs on the thread. The deadline for teambuilding and challenges expires Saturday, August 1 at 11:59 PM GMT.
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Feraligatr (Focus Blast)
Entei (Fire Blast, Eruption)
Suicune (Hydro Pump)
Cobalion (Close Combat, Focus Blast, Stone Edge)
Crobat (Brave Bird)
Forretress (Explosion)
Nidoqueen (Earthquake, Superpower, Fire Blast, Focus Blast)
Porygon2 (Return)
Whimsicott (Hurricane)
Dragalge (Draco Meteor)
Mandibuzz (Brave Bird)
Slurpuff (Return)
Swampert (Hydro Pump)
Tentacruel (Hydro Pump)
Tyrantrum (Draco Meteor)
Bronzong (Explosion, Earthquake)
Darmanitan (Fire Blast)
Gligar (Earthquake)
Nidoking (Fire Blast, Focus Blast)
Porygon-Z (Return)
Seismitoad (Hydro Pump)
DUGTRIO (Earthquake, Stone Edge)
Galvantula (Thunder)
Jellicent (Water Spout)
Magneton (Explosion)
Meloetta (Close Combat)
Noivern (Draco Meteor, Hurricane, Boomburst)
Sharpedo (Hydro Pump)
Aerodactyl (Fire Blast)
Fletchinder (Acrobatics)
Kingdra (Hydro Pump, Draco Meteor, Outrage)
Virizion (Close Combat, Focus Blast, Stone Edge)
Blastoise (Water Spout, Hydro Pump)
Cloyster (Hydro Pump, Explosion)
Drapion (Earthquake)
Exploud (Boomburst)
Flygon (Draco Meteor, Fire Blast, Boomburst)
Quagsire (Earthquake)
Weezing (Fire Blast)
Entei (Fire Blast, Eruption)
Suicune (Hydro Pump)
Cobalion (Close Combat, Focus Blast, Stone Edge)
Crobat (Brave Bird)
Forretress (Explosion)
Nidoqueen (Earthquake, Superpower, Fire Blast, Focus Blast)
Porygon2 (Return)
Whimsicott (Hurricane)
Dragalge (Draco Meteor)
Mandibuzz (Brave Bird)
Slurpuff (Return)
Swampert (Hydro Pump)
Tentacruel (Hydro Pump)
Tyrantrum (Draco Meteor)
Bronzong (Explosion, Earthquake)
Darmanitan (Fire Blast)
Gligar (Earthquake)
Nidoking (Fire Blast, Focus Blast)
Porygon-Z (Return)
Seismitoad (Hydro Pump)
DUGTRIO (Earthquake, Stone Edge)
Galvantula (Thunder)
Jellicent (Water Spout)
Magneton (Explosion)
Meloetta (Close Combat)
Noivern (Draco Meteor, Hurricane, Boomburst)
Sharpedo (Hydro Pump)
Aerodactyl (Fire Blast)
Fletchinder (Acrobatics)
Kingdra (Hydro Pump, Draco Meteor, Outrage)
Virizion (Close Combat, Focus Blast, Stone Edge)
Blastoise (Water Spout, Hydro Pump)
Cloyster (Hydro Pump, Explosion)
Drapion (Earthquake)
Exploud (Boomburst)
Flygon (Draco Meteor, Fire Blast, Boomburst)
Quagsire (Earthquake)
Weezing (Fire Blast)
This seems exceptionally trivial if I'm reading it right. Every single bird team qualifies with no changes except for Nightingales who used dominant stuff like Mega Absol. Then again there is the factor of making the team fit the theme, so I hope using stuff like any Crobat with Adamant Band Entei running Fire Blast in the unused fourth slot will be rated poorly.
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Yeah, not gonna join in this round. It's a cool idea and all, but this one just seems like it'll be special attackers with physical moves or vice versa, so I'll pass.
Yes, as a judge I will absolutely poorly rate people who slap on a move just for the sake of qualifying (such as your example of non-Special Entei running Fire Blast), and Originality is a factor for a reason.
I'm going to say no here, as the Mega transformation clearly puts you above the limit. The same goes for things like Meloetta with Relic Song.
Would medicham fit? it hits 438 atk if jolly but thats only because of pure power
Well, as long as it is less than Base 100 Attack, it's all fine. These Pokemon can be boosted through certain moves, items, and/or abilities. Yeah, I actually made that concept up, so feel free to do whatever you wish with the underdogs =)
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