Insert Gimmick Name Here -- An RMT

[Spenstar]

Hey guys, this is my second RMT, my first being way back when I started Shoddy. I think I've come a long way since, and so has my team. I hope you enjoy these guys, and I would much appreciate constructive criticism and feedback.

The Lead:

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Riddler (Azelf) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SpAtk/6 SpDef
Timid nature (+Spd,-Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

"The Riddler plays tricks on its unsuspecting opponents, all the while thinking up nasty plots to wreck even more havoc."

This guy is a ton of fun to use, especially against leads like Hippowdon or Swampert that decide to use Stealth Rock right away. I trick the opposing lead a Scarf, gain a useful item, (usually Focus Sash or Leftovers) Nasty Plot on the switch, and wreck havoc with Thunderbolt and Psychic. This guy usually KOs at least one member of the opposing team, all the while crippling another and serving as a decent scout. I've tried other moves like HP Fighting and Flamethrower, but Thunderbolt really is the best coverage move for Azelf. If you can think of a better one though, tell me. And yes, I have someone to set up rocks elsewhere.

Matchup against other leads:
Purple means, a small threat/possible threat
Red means, a certain/large threat

Opposing Azelf: Most of the time I face a standard Stealth Rock lead. I trick my scarf, let the opposing Azelf set up rocks, and set up a Nasty Plot on the switch. Easy. Sometimes the opposing Azelf uses a more offensive strategy, but most of the time that also means they're worse off with a scarf. In such cases I switch accordingly to my Blissey or Scizor.

Aerodactyl: Also easy, I use the same strategy as I do with Azelf leads, except with a lot more comfort.

Machamp: I hate Machamp leads, I really do. If I use Psychic it won't OHKO and he'll beat me with Payback, though I can revenge with Scizor. If I trick a scarf, Machamp becomes more predictable later on, but Azelf almost always goes down regardless. Not a good match-up.

Roserade: Psychic will do the trick, If its Sashed and puts Azelf to sleep, I'll go into Scizor and finish the job.

Infernape: I eat the Fake Out and OHKO/2KO with Psychic, depending on the possibility of a Sash.

Metagross: This can be a cakewalk or rather hard depending on the opponent. I usually trick Metagross the scarf and see if he sets up SR or attacks. Depending on what he does, I either go for the Nasty Plot, or switch into one of my physically bulky Pokemon.

Jirachi: Most of the time we're dealing with a Scarfed lead so I simply switch into my Vaporeon to take the Iron Head.

The Scout/Choice Bander:

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NoBeggar (Scizor) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 254 HP/252 Atk/4 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk,-SpAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Double Hit
- Superpower
- U-turn

"Beggars can't be choosers, but this guy is no beggar. Instead, he is a fearsome and powerful chooser."

This guy kicks ass. Its banded BPs and U-Turns revenge kill amazingly and scout like a pro. Superpower's rarely used, but it's great to take down steel types like other Scizor. Double Hit's a bit unusual, but I use it to hit pokes who otherwise wall me, and its sub-breaking abilities are top-notch. More specifically, it's my one way of making sure Breloom goes down for good, as Breloom's a huge threat to my team.

The Dragon Dancer:

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Square (Gyarados) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 34 HP/252 Atk/4 Def/220 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd,-SpAtk)
- Bounce
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Waterfall

"Swing your partner round and round, then pound him clear into the ground! This is square dancing, serpent style!"

I never used a Gyarados on my team before this guy, and now I know exactly what I've been missing out on. This guy is awesome! I usually use him after a different Pokemon on my team dies, or by switching him on a purely physical attacker, and Dragon Dance on the switch. Then, it's off to sweep! The EVs are set so that Gyarados can outrun the rare Electrode after a single Dragon Dance, and as a result, everything else in the game barring Ninjask and some scarfers. That includes Jolteon, who I just smite with EQ before it can T-bolt me. It usually switches in as I Dragon Dance. Waterfall is for STAB and possible flinchhax, and Bounce is there for neutral coverage so nothing walls me. Leftovers are for some minor recovery to aid its sweep, and so Gyarados can survive some attacks later on, or handle Poison damage. And, no matter what, I am not using Life Orb. Often times I can sweep at very low HP, which LO would just ruin.

The Special Wall/Cleric:

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Chef (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 40 HP/252 Def/94 Spd/120 SpAtk/4 SpDef
Bold nature (+Def,-Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Heal Bell
- Seismic Toss
- Softboiled

"Beware the pudgy chef working behind the scenes. She can toss you just as easily as a pizza, and will set you aflame with her spicy dishes. For herself, however, she makes a replenishing egg that keeps up her strength."

I know Blissey's very weak physically and doesn't do much damage, but good god, this Blissey has won me just as many matches as my Azelf-Gyarados combo, if not more. She's my counter to special threats like Empoleon, Heatran, and Gengar, and so many others. Toss and Flamethrower, while seeming a little redundant, are both necessary, which is why I gave other duties like setting up rocks, Toxic, and Wishes to pass to others. Without Flamethrower, Blissey can't beat the Foretress and Skarmory she sees a lot, nor can she touch Gengar. Without Toss, Heatran walls her completely. However, the tricks don't stop there. With heal Bell, my Blissey serves as a very effective cleric, coming in on special attackers and setting up on the switch. This Blissey is awesome!

The Physical Wall/Wishpasser:

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Judge (Vaporeon) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP/188 Def/70 SpDef
Bold nature (+Def,-Atk)
- Protect
- Surf
- Toxic
- Wish

"The corrupt judge of the undersea world shows no mercy. For itself and its allies, it will make wishes come true. For its opposition, a sentence of death by poison and tidal waves ensue."

I first started considering this gal when HellGarden started failing. It would replace him as my new physical wall; a toxic WishPasser. Among other things, such as providing Wish support, this Vappy has access to Toxic, which would theoretically allow my Blissey to run Stealth Rock instead of its own Toxic. Instead, I have a different Pokemon to set up rocks, and Blissey is now my cleric. Now that Judge is officially on my team, I gotta say, I like her a lot. She's a great physical wall and a great counter to Pokes like Gyarados.

The Rapid Spinner/Physical Attacker:

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UUMyAss (Donphan) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP/188 Atk/74 SpDef
Adamant nature (+Atk,-SpAtk)
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge

"Sometimes, the best fit is the understudy. UU my ass!"

Now I know what you're thinking. TrickPlot Azelf first, and now Donphan in OU? It's true you don't see him that often, and that he is the replacement for the OU Spinner Starmie, but some things... just work. Donphan fits all the holes I need. He has Rapid Spin to slear away (Toxic)Spikes and SR, and sets up my team's rocks. This allows my Blissey to be my cleric. Donphan is also a physical attacker, contrasting from both my walls and my lead. But the best part is that Donphan, unlike Starmie, is immune to electric attacks and is physically bulky, solving my Electric weakness altogether. It was painful to be weak to Electivire, and now, I'm not.

Threats List:

Scarf Rotom-A: I really hate this guy. It outruns and KOs my Riddler during its NP sweep, can trick its scarf onto my Blissey, and outruns and KOs my Gyarados after a DD. It also blocks Donphan's Rapid Spin and KOs with Shadow Ball. To beat it, I just try to out-predict it, at least once I find that its scarfed, and I can usually win despite it, but it really sucks for my team.

SubCMSuicune: If I don't toxic Suicune with my Vappy immediately, I'm pretty much done for. It sets up on my Blissey until it can actually beat her, and then just wrecks my team, unless I can Toxic it. If I can pull that off, it's useless against me.

Agiligross: Unless I can TrickScarf him with Riddler, if Donphan is down this Metagross just sweeps right through my team, as long as it carries Thunderpunch.

Breloom: I have to play around this one, a lot. Usually I switch in something to take the sleep, then I go to Scizor as it subs, and Double Hit to break it and attack it before it can Focus Punch me. Even then, it's crippled a member of my team and scouted amazingly. And that's if I'm lucky...

And that's my team. Now for your enjoyment, here are the Pokemon who were in the original post but did not make the cut:

The Former Team Members:

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Parasite, the Shaymin @Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP, 0 Atk, 180 Def, 76 SpAtk, 0 SpDef, 2 Spd
Bold Nature
Aromatherapy
Leech Seed
Substitute
Seed Flare

I was always kind of iffy on this guy. It used to be a Celebi, before I realized that half my team was weak to Ghost and Dark attacks, so I changed Celebi to Shaymin. It was pretty important on my team, because without a cleric, my Scizor and Gyrardos can be made useless by a Flamethrower hax or a Will-o-Wisp. My Gyrardos and Azelf are also vulnerable to Thunder Waves, so this shrub from hell existed to cure their status. Leech Seed served as some sort of recovery, and works well with Substitute. When I found that this "physical wall" wasn't walling much, I swapped it out for Judge, my Vaporeon.

Sanity, the Starmie @Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP, 0 Atk, 0 Def, 6 SpAtk, 0 SpDef, 252 Spd
Timid Nature
Thunderbolt
Surf
Rapid Spin
Recover

Scizor switches out a lot, Gyarados is crippled by the rocks, and everything else hates (Toxic)Spikes. That's why this guy was here, to spin away the hazards and let the fun continue. It was pretty straightforward; spin, attack with Surf and Thunderbolt, and Recover when necessary. I chose Bolt over Beam to prevent water types like Gyarados or opposing Starmie from using me as set-up fodder. I do have ways to deal with grass types who give this combo problems. I've tried a lot of mons in the last slot, like Stealth Rock Heatran and Scarfgon, but I thought Starmie's the guy who really works. Until I added Vaporeon to my team, which created problems with electric attacks. I decided to toss Starmie for the underrated physical spinner that is Donphan.

This is Spenstar, signing out.

Version 1.1: Replaced Psychic with Thunderbolt on Sanity and altered the EV spread to be more bulky.
Version 1.2: Changed EVs on Square to add a little more bulk by setting a specific speed number.
Version 1.3: Gave Chef a more offensive EV spread to give Flamethrower some more sting.
Version 1.35: Replaced Leech Seed with Synthesis on HellGarden.
Version 1.4: Replaced Riddler's Flamethrower with Thunderbolt.
Version 1.5: Changed Chef's EV Spread, changed HellGarden to Parasite, though both are the same species. Also replaced Return with Bounce on Square.
Version 1.55: Replaced HP Ice with Seed Flare on Parasite.

Version 2.0: Replaced Sanity and HellGarden with UUMyAss and Judge, updated movesets accordingly.
Version 2.1: Chanced NoBeggar's nature to Adamant and updated Chef's EV spread.

 

[ShinyAzelf]

Hey.

The team is pretty solid. I'm questioning your Azelf set's usefulness. Does Trick + Nasty Plot really work? If I were you, I would use a Naive nature and replace Nasty Plot with either U-turn or Explosion for scouting.

I recommend Thunderbolt or Ice Beam over Psychic on Starmie, because both moves provide more coverage than Psychic, because without T-bolt or Ice Beam, Gyarados and Starmie can set up Dragon Dance at ease respectively. If Starmie is trying to stay in as long as possible via Recover and to keep on spinning away hazards, I would suggest an EV Spread of 252 HP/4 Sp. Atk/252 Spe so you outspeed what you usually outspeed but have more bulk.

Good luck!

 

[Spenstar]

Hey.

The team is pretty solid. I'm questioning your Azelf set's usefulness. Does Trick + Nasty Plot really work? If I were you, I would use a Naive nature and replace Nasty Plot with either U-turn or Explosion for scouting.

I recommend Thunderbolt or Ice Beam over Psychic on Starmie, because both moves provide more coverage than Psychic, because without T-bolt or Ice Beam, Gyarados and Starmie can set up Dragon Dance at ease respectively. If Starmie is trying to stay in as long as possible via Recover and to keep on spinning away hazards, I would suggest an EV Spread of 252 HP/4 Sp. Atk/252 Spe so you outspeed what you usually outspeed but have more bulk.

Good luck!

My Azelf set happens to be very useful. Provided the opponent's lead isn't choiced, most of the time I get a free Nasty Plot and wreck havoc with it. It's awesome! It's one of the "gimmicks" which is even more impressive in practice than on paper.

As for Starmie, there are a few Pokemon I took into account when I chose Psychic. It hits Gyarados harder than Ice Beam, and it hits Dragonite or others harder than Thunderbolt. I think I'll go with Thunderbolt though. Thanks! And I'll update the EV Spread too, it's a good idea.

Thanks for commenting!

 

[Siegrin]

Now here's my question

Now, although you may choice your trick scarf away in the first turn and do some Nasty Plotting, many common leads now are tricked (i.e. Jirachi, Azelf etc)

Also what is the use of Psychic besides being a decent STAB move, I'd suggest you replace that with U-turn, because Azelf has many various weaknesses, it can bounce away, causing slight amounts of damage while running away from harm. Try this set

SHINYAzelf @ Choice Scarf

U-turn
Trick
Ice Punch / Stealth Rock
Explosion

It works pretty good for me...

 

[Spenstar]

Now here's my question

Now, although you may choice your trick scarf away in the first turn and do some Nasty Plotting, many common leads now are tricked (i.e. Jirachi, Azelf etc)

Also what is the use of Psychic besides being a decent STAB move, I'd suggest you replace that with U-turn, because Azelf has many various weaknesses, it can bounce away, causing slight amounts of damage while running away from harm. Try this set

SHINYAzelf @ Choice Scarf

U-turn
Trick
Ice Punch / Stealth Rock
Explosion

It works pretty good for me...

You're missing the point of the entire set, which is, to use trick to create an opportunity to set up, then set up and sweep. Of course I have Psychic, it's my core STAB move. Unlike other scouting leads, my Azelf is designed to sweep and begin the game with momentum.

 

[ShinyAzelf]

As for Starmie, there are a few Pokemon I took into account when I chose Psychic. It hits Gyarados harder than Ice Beam, and it hits Dragonite or others harder than Thunderbolt. I think I'll go with Thunderbolt though. Thanks! And I'll update the EV Spread too, it's a good idea.

Thanks for commenting!

Hmm, you do have a point, hitting both quite hard. If you're scared of Dragonite, you could use Choice Scarf Flygon to scout the team while beating Dragonite even after it Dragon Dance. You should use Thunderbolt for Gyarados in this case. This is the preferred option, because Dragonite is quite bulky and doesn't die to 1 Ice Beam.

Good luck!

-ShinyAzelf

 

[Spenstar]

Hmm, you do have a point, hitting both quite hard. If you're scared of Dragonite, you could use Choice Scarf Flygon to scout the team while beating Dragonite even after it Dragon Dance. You should use Thunderbolt for Gyarados in this case. This is the preferred option, because Dragonite is quite bulky and doesn't die to 1 Ice Beam.

Good luck!

-ShinyAzelf

Dragonite was just for the sake of example, any Grass type serves as just as good an example of what Psychic hits but Bolt doesn't. I did replace Psychic with Bolt though, on the set.

I also gave Gyarados a bit more bulk while setting its speed to 278, enough to outrun Electrode after a DD. The excess speed was unneccesary IMO, though I could be wrong.

 

[Siegrin]

@ Spenstar

In Sweeping, often there are points in which you... ultimately are unable to OHKO, I don't think Azelf is such a good sweeper for that reason. It's too easy to kill. Maybe you should use the set that I offered you and remedy your team and take the destroy opponent lead advantage. Cause there's many single point failures with Azelf being a sweeper

 

[Spenstar]

@ Spenstar

In Sweeping, often there are points in which you... ultimately are unable to OHKO, I don't think Azelf is such a good sweeper for that reason. It's too easy to kill. Maybe you should use the set that I offered you and remedy your team and take the destroy opponent lead advantage. Cause there's many single point failures with Azelf being a sweeper

After a Nasty Plot, my Azelf does hit a remarkable 698 Special Attack, and sometimes I can even set up more than one. I don't expect Azelf to sweep the whole team, rather, he's meant to dent the opposing team to allow my other mons an easier time. And more often than not, when he gets going, Azelf kills a lot. Plus, the item he steals will often help him. I actually 6-0'd an unsuspecting team with this guy :D

Don't get me wrong, your set is great, it's just, not what I'm going for.

 

[Spenstar]

Hey guys, my Shaymin set isn't holding up very well, can you guys help me replace it? I'd like it to be Physically bulky, and my team needs a cleric. Any ideas? I'm considering a WishPassing Cleric Vaporeon, but I'm not entirely sure. Alternately, I can give Vappy Toxic and make Blissey my cleric.

 

[Faladran]

Hi Spenstar, this looks to be a pretty decent team. I too, am particularly surprised at your Azelf's set. If it's been working well for you, then by all means keep it, but I personally feel that the set is rather gimmicky. Nasty Plot Azelf seems very powerful on paper, but it leaves you with no team member to set up Stealth Rock, and is unlikely to get very far in sweeping. To be honest, no good player is going to have much of a problem with Azelf, as it is easily defeated by faster Scarfers or special walls. Also, the earlier you attempt a sweep, the less likely it is to be successful. Due to the importance of setting up Stealth Rock, as well as NP Azelf's general unreliability, I would recommend using a TrickScarf Uxie to lead instead:

Uxie @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 Spe
Impish nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Trick
- Stealth rock
- Thunder wave
- U-turn​

Uxie's immense amount of bulk ensures that it matches up well with the majority of common leads in OU. Faster leads with Taunt are crippled by being tricked a Choice Scarf, while slower and bulkier leads meet the same fate. Stealth Rock is invaluable for its ability to cause residual damage over the course of the match, and Uxie remains a very solid choice to set it up. Thunder Wave is quite useful for nailing switch-ins, and the extra paralysis support can often be helpful. Finally, U-turn rounds out the moveset by allowing Uxie to escape from unfavorable match-ups, scout the opposing team, or simply U-turn out of Taunt leads after using Trick.

Other than that, the rest of my suggestions are quite minor. I think that your Shaymin set could use some tweaking to help fit in better with the offensive nature of your team, and you could therefore try out sets such as Offensive LO or Leech Seed + Protect. Similarly, the variant of Blissey that you're currently using is more suited for use on stall teams, so a faster-paced set such as the one mentioned in this Smog article would likely be a better choice.

Good luck with your team!

 

[Spenstar]

@Faladran: Indeed, TrickPlot Azelf has been working very well for me, though I must admit the results often vary. Its goal is to attempt a sweep, denting and KOing a few Pokemon on the opposing team, all the while scouting and figuring out movesets, and to top it all off, crippling the enemy lead. Plus, it's got great synergy with my Gyarados. And as another bonus, if I switch out Azelf before it gets killed, its more useful later on. That Uxie doesn't look suitable for any use outside the lead position. I found that I don't really need rocks for the lead to set up, so its not a priority of mine.

The Shaymin set I'm using isn't doing too well, so I might change it to a different set, but I'm probably going to change it into another Pokemon altogether. My team isn't meant to be fully offensive, sort of like a Balance/Offensive sort of thing.

The Blissey you suggested is interesting, but moveset-wise, the only difference is that I have Toxic instead of T-wave, and the former's given me really great results. I might change the EV spread to match the other one, but, what do the Speed EVs allow that Blissey to outrun? IMO Dumping the EVs into Special Attack would be more useful, since I don't have rocks to rely on.

 

[Faladran]

Blissey's EVs allow you to outspeed CB Scizor so that you can hit it with Flamethrower. I still think that Stealth Rock needs to be on a moveset of one your team members, as it is an invaluable move for wearing down your opponents during the course of the match, but it's up to you as far as which changes you choose to implement. Toxic tends to be more useful for Blissey used on stall teams, which is why I prefer Thunder Wave on more balanced / offensive teams such as this one. Even Blissey could use Stealth Rock if you find an extra moveslot, but as stated earlier, it's all up to you.

 

[Spenstar]

Blissey's EVs allow you to outspeed CB Scizor so that you can hit it with Flamethrower. I still think that Stealth Rock needs to be on a moveset of one your team members, as it is an invaluable move for wearing down your opponents during the course of the match, but it's up to you as far as which changes you choose to implement. Toxic tends to be more useful for Blissey used on stall teams, which is why I prefer Thunder Wave on more balanced / offensive teams such as this one. Even Blissey could use Stealth Rock if you find an extra moveslot, but as stated earlier, it's all up to you.

Toxic works wonders as I want Blissey to be more of a standalone threat compared to a more support-oriented 'mon. I'll use the EV spread, but with a few EVs from HP to Special Attack to make up for the lack of SR. The only reason why I don't have Stealth Rock is because I need all the moves I can get here.

 

[MazeL]

Hey, good team you have here. One problem I can see right off the bat is Wacan Berry on Gyarados. Gyarados is already 4x weak to Electric attacks, so by no means is he living an Electric attack, after taking Stealth Rock damage. I would replace the item with Life Orb, Leftovers or Lum Berry. Life Orb lets you KO Starmie at +1 with Bounce, but Leftovers grants him with a little form of recovery. Lum Berry lets him set up another Dragon Dance on the likes of Will-O-Wisp Rotom, or Blissey. As for the latter goes, I would reccomend replacing Bounce / Earthquake with Taunt. If you want to keep the EV's to outspeed Jolteon at +1 you can, or you can opt for a bulkier spread of 156 HP / 60 Atk / 96 Def / 196 Spe. With Taunt and this bulky spread, you have a general check to stall, as well a reliable check to Blissey, Skarmory, and Forretress. The EV's allow you to outspeed Jolly Scarf Flygon at +2.

If you take my suggestion to alter your Gyarados set, I would recommend Jolly Choice Scarf Flygon over Scizor. Choice Band Scizor has become obsolete since the HG / SS metagame. Flygon and Gyarados maintain good synergy, covering each other's weaknesses. Jolly is used over Adamant to outspeed Agilligross, as well as outspeed Agility Empoleon.

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Jolly
EV's: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 HP
-Outrage
-U-Turn
-Earthquake
-Thunderpunch

Outrage is there for your Dragon STAB, as well as revenge killing a +1 Dragonite and Kingdra. Earthquake is used for ground STAB, as well as to counter Heatran, Jolteon, Magnezone and Jirachi, common switch ins to Gyarados. U-Turn is used to scout just like Scizor, just a lot faster, but sacrificed for less power. Thunderpunch is used to counter other teams Gyarados, but Stone Edge or Fire Blast can be used in place to counter your teams needs.

Overall, this is a good team. You have a reliable switch in to most pokemon, which most teams don't have.

 

[Spenstar]

Hey, good team you have here. One problem I can see right off the bat is Wacan Berry on Gyarados. Gyarados is already 4x weak to Electric attacks, so by no means is he living an Electric attack, after taking Stealth Rock damage. I would replace the item with Life Orb, Leftovers or Lum Berry. Life Orb lets you KO Starmie at +1 with Bounce, but Leftovers grants him with a little form of recovery. Lum Berry lets him set up another Dragon Dance on the likes of Will-O-Wisp Rotom, or Blissey. As for the latter goes, I would reccomend replacing Bounce / Earthquake with Taunt. If you want to keep the EV's to outspeed Jolteon at +1 you can, or you can opt for a bulkier spread of 156 HP / 60 Atk / 96 Def / 196 Spe. With Taunt and this bulky spread, you have a general check to stall, as well a reliable check to Blissey, Skarmory, and Forretress. The EV's allow you to outspeed Jolly Scarf Flygon at +2.

If you take my suggestion to alter your Gyarados set, I would recommend Jolly Choice Scarf Flygon over Scizor. Choice Band Scizor has become obsolete since the HG / SS metagame. Flygon and Gyarados maintain good synergy, covering each other's weaknesses. Jolly is used over Adamant to outspeed Agilligross, as well as outspeed Agility Empoleon.

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Jolly
EV's: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 HP
-Outrage
-U-Turn
-Earthquake
-Thunderpunch

Outrage is there for your Dragon STAB, as well as revenge killing a +1 Dragonite and Kingdra. Earthquake is used for ground STAB, as well as to counter Heatran, Jolteon, Magnezone and Jirachi, common switch ins to Gyarados. U-Turn is used to scout just like Scizor, just a lot faster, but sacrificed for less power. Thunderpunch is used to counter other teams Gyarados, but Stone Edge or Fire Blast can be used in place to counter your teams needs.

Overall, this is a good team. You have a reliable switch in to most pokemon, which most teams don't have.

Thanks! Flygon, while a great Pokemon, actually would be a hindrance to my team, because Scizor is my Flygon check, able to kill any Flygon that locks itself into Outrage. (it happens very often) On this team, Scizor is magnificent. Also, with Gyrardos, Wacan Berry is pretty much required. It HAS allowed him to live an electric attack that would have killed him, allowing for an additional attack or the setting up of DD.

Your Gyrardos suggestion, while great, isn't what I'm going for. Way too often, the opponent switches in Jolteon as I DD, and thanks to my speed, I kill it before it can burn my Berry. Plus, with the speed, I can also outrun whatever Scarfed opponent Azelf creates at the start. I need the additional coverage move to hit everything neutrally, otherwise something I could normally beat forces me out. I also don't need a counter to Skarmory, Fortress, and Blissey. The former two are handled just fine by my Azelf and Blissey, while the latter I can either out-stall with my own Blissey, or beat with Scizor. Or I can trick one of them a scarf.

 

[Smith]

Hey I got your message, I vaguely remember playing this team on PokeLab and it's a good team in that it covers most threats, but I think some moveset changes would do you solid- mostly the "gimmicks" you're employing.

First obviously is TrickNP Azelf. What tricking a scarf does is give Azelf an opportunity to set up a NP- in the beginning of the game. I fail to see how NP Azelf is good at all, and considering that you're using an unreliable method to set it up, against a team that is 5/6 unrevealed, I don't see much success. Consider the popularity of Flygon, Scizor, ScarfTar, Jirachi or Scarf Rotom- all of these can switch in and eliminate you immediately. I understand wanting to start the match with momentum, but trying to sweep in the early game simply does not work against any competent opponent. What makes this lead even more ineffective is the fact that you don't have SR. SR is an absolute requirement for any team, you simply cannot run offense or even stall without this. Saying that you can't run SR because you don't have the room to set it up, to me, doesn't make any sense when you have a perfectly viable means of setting it up in Azelf. You could try a LO set with SR, or another Trick Scarf set without Nasty Plot- just please change the set. Even if you are enamored with this set, you simply will not and cannot change it, put if on Blissey somewhere so you at least have SR somewhere.

Second is Gyarados. Wacan berry is an extremely poor choice for Gyara in this metagame. Think of all of the Pokemon that run electric moves- Jolteon, Starmie, Vaporeon, Electivire if you want to get gimmicky. Wacan berry helps you against none of these. If you're trying to use them as set up fodder by actually switching into them, you still die to two hits from their attacks, and once you've set up, you outspeed them all anyways. There's really no purpose, besides very situational instances, all of which provide that you have a healthy Gyarados able to with stand a super-effective hit anyway, which isn't likely considering that two SR switches takes him out of this range (see how important SR is?) Leftovers would be immensely superior, allowing him to switch in more than four times or less in a sandstorm, and provide him with some means of overcoming the natural residual damage he takes over the course of the battle switching into attacks and SR and whatnot.

That's really all I have, hope this helps.

 

[Spenstar]

Hey I got your message, I vaguely remember playing this team on PokeLab and it's a good team in that it covers most threats, but I think some moveset changes would do you solid- mostly the "gimmicks" you're employing.

You did? Did you save the log somewhere? I ask because I wanna know how that battle turned out.

First obviously is TrickNP Azelf. What tricking a scarf does is give Azelf an opportunity to set up a NP- in the beginning of the game. I fail to see how NP Azelf is good at all, and considering that you're using an unreliable method to set it up, against a team that is 5/6 unrevealed, I don't see much success. Consider the popularity of Flygon, Scizor, ScarfTar, Jirachi or Scarf Rotom- all of these can switch in and eliminate you immediately. I understand wanting to start the match with momentum, but trying to sweep in the early game simply does not work against any competent opponent. What makes this lead even more ineffective is the fact that you don't have SR. SR is an absolute requirement for any team, you simply cannot run offense or even stall without this. Saying that you can't run SR because you don't have the room to set it up, to me, doesn't make any sense when you have a perfectly viable means of setting it up in Azelf. You could try a LO set with SR, or another Trick Scarf set without Nasty Plot- just please change the set. Even if you are enamored with this set, you simply will not and cannot change it, put if on Blissey somewhere so you at least have SR somewhere.

There are a few reasons why I love this set so much. One, It's sort of like a two-in-one, combining the momentum of a Machamp lead with the crippling effects of a TrickAzelf lead. I'm often able to dent or KO at least one member of the opposing team while still crippling the enemy's lead. I guess I can replace the coverage move with SR and see how that goes. I can set up my rocks when I know I'm on my way out, or come back later and set them up.

Second is Gyarados. Wacan berry is an extremely poor choice for Gyara in this metagame. Think of all of the Pokemon that run electric moves- Jolteon, Starmie, Vaporeon, Electivire if you want to get gimmicky. Wacan berry helps you against none of these. If you're trying to use them as set up fodder by actually switching into them, you still die to two hits from their attacks, and once you've set up, you outspeed them all anyways. There's really no purpose, besides very situational instances, all of which provide that you have a healthy Gyarados able to with stand a super-effective hit anyway, which isn't likely considering that two SR switches takes him out of this range (see how important SR is?) Leftovers would be immensely superior, allowing him to switch in more than four times or less in a sandstorm, and provide him with some means of overcoming the natural residual damage he takes over the course of the battle switching into attacks and SR and whatnot.

I understand where you're getting at with this, but consider ScarfRotom. After I set up one DD, I still cannot OHKO it. It T-bolts me, I survive with Wacan berry and strike for the KO. Lots of pokes like that justify the use of Wacan berry. Second, if I mis-predict and switch into a Scarfgon's Thunderpunch or something like that, I'm still safe thanks to the Wacan Berry. Third, rocks usually aren't an issue. I have a spinner. I will however, test Lefties on Gyarados and see how it works.

That's really all I have, hope this helps.[/QUOTE]

It really did help. Thanks! :D

 

[Spenstar]

Bump, BC I added to the OP.

 

[Spenstar]

Another bump, this team got an overhaul and I'm pretty proud of it now.

 

[Smith]

Hey I got your (second) message, not much to add now, it looks pretty solid. The only complaints I have would be your gimmicky Azelf and Gyarados sets, but you seem fixed on those so meh. The only thing I would recommend changing is Scizor, that spread is extremely inefficient. I'm not sure why you'd want speed, but I'd just use Adamant, as Jolly doesn't do anything special, especially with no speed investment. However if you think that you're doing something amazing with Jolly nature, 64 EVs in speed gives you the same amount with Adamant nature, as well as leaving more room for attack.

That's all I got, hope this helps.

 

[Spenstar]

Hey I got your (second) message, not much to add now, it looks pretty solid. The only complaints I have would be your gimmicky Azelf and Gyarados sets, but you seem fixed on those so meh. The only thing I would recommend changing is Scizor, that spread is extremely inefficient. I'm not sure why you'd want speed, but I'd just use Adamant, as Jolly doesn't do anything special, especially with no speed investment. However if you think that you're doing something amazing with Jolly nature, 64 EVs in speed gives you the same amount with Adamant nature, as well as leaving more room for attack.

That's all I got, hope this helps.

Yeah, I'll get to that. I think Jolly CB Scizor was a mistake as I was replacing Scarfgon with him.

And, what's Gimmicky about the Gyarados Set? It's a Dragon Dancer with less emphesis on bulk, for power, and Bounce and EQ, for coverage. With lefties to provide recovery, IDK what's gimmicky about it.

 

[KidX]

Hi I got your PM.

To start, I think that you should try out a LO Azelf Lead, over your current scarfplot set. You can use a simple set like this:

Azelf @ Life Orb
Ev's: 4 Hp 252 Spe 252 S.Atk
Nature: Timid/ Modest
Ability: Levitate
Moves:

Psychic
Fire Blast
Thunderbolt
Taunt/Explosion/Grass Knot

This set can easily KO all the most common leads with the correct attack. The choice of nature is always a tough choice, Timid lets you outspeed timid max speed gengar amd max speed naive Nape, but you lose some power, a modest nature on the other hand lets you hit like a truck but you are outsped by gengar and nape. The choice for the last move slot depends if you want to prevent hazards on the field, end the game with a bang or hit ground types hard. Since you have a spinner, I would say go for explosion because it helps take care of blissey and snorlax who are constant switch ins for zelf.

Good Luck!

 

[Spenstar]

Hi I got your PM.

To start, I think that you should try out a LO Azelf Lead, over your current scarfplot set. You can use a simple set like this:

Azelf @ Life Orb
Ev's: 4 Hp 252 Spe 252 S.Atk
Nature: Timid/ Modest
Ability: Levitate
Moves:

Psychic
Fire Blast
Thunderbolt
Taunt/Explosion/Grass Knot

This set can easily KO all the most common leads with the correct attack. The choice of nature is always a tough choice, Timid lets you outspeed timid max speed gengar amd max speed naive Nape, but you lose some power, a modest nature on the other hand lets you hit like a truck but you are outsped by gengar and nape. The choice for the last move slot depends if you want to prevent hazards on the field, end the game with a bang or hit ground types hard. Since you have a spinner, I would say go for explosion because it helps take care of blissey and snorlax who are constant switch ins for zelf.

Good Luck!

Hm... I actually like that. I'll give it a test and see how it goes. Thanks!

Edit: Used Shadow Ball over Explosion for coverage against other Azelf. Performance seems to be rather lackluster, as a few leads can survive the attack I throw at them, and there's also the Focus Sash other leads have.

 

[Spenstar]

Quick Question: you think maybe Umbreon would work instead of Vaporeon? Umbreon can run the same moveset but with a different attacking move and is weaker offensively but has greater defensive stats. IDK