BDSP Ignorance is “Not Blissey”: Tricky Sticky Stall Teams - Peak #5 (1792 Elo)

The Goomy · Feb 18, 2022

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Proof of Peak: https://i.imgur.com/qeh6Gvz.png

Shoutouts to honchkrow for being a horse.

What is up guys, Steven here, and today I’d love to share a few teams I’ve built and I’m sure you’ve seen me use on the ladder.

Prior to the Gengar suspect test, many argued (mostly correctly) that one of the only true “counters” to Gengar was Blissey.

Personally, I don’t think stall is very good in this format. So, after getting reqs, I wanted to challenge myself and see if I could successfully make a stall team without the use of Blissey at all. This proposes a lot of challenges, namely, how do you effectively handle not only Gengar, but also the bevy of specially offensive firehouses in the current format (Lati@s, Alakazam, Starmie, Magnezone, and Clefable).

One thing I’d love to mention in the introduction is that Trick is an amazing option for all teams in the current format. Without Z-Crystals or Mega Evolutions, when you click Trick, something is happening. On hyper offense, fast scarfers with Trick are an awesome option because you can cripple something on the slower, bulkier teams, or keep the speed if you need it against offense. Similarly, on balance, bulky scarf Rotom-W is a great option as you can do a bit of both depending on game state. And finally, the coup de gras for stall, Sticky Barb (aka Tricky Sticky). In a metagame without a lot of Toxic users, Sticky Barb is an amazing way to make progress, force chip damage, and normally get a good utility item. Most Pokemon in the format are either Leftovers, choiced , or don’t want to lose their item.

So, below, I’m going to go over the two teams I made (Gengar Meta and post-Gengar) and explain the thought process and how the teams play. Please enjoy!

Regigigas @

| Slow Start

Careful | 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD

Knock Off
Earthquake
Substitute
Protect

Regigigas has always been an interesting option for stall teams in my eyes – going back to ORAS NU I’ve been trying to fit it onto a stall structure.

Although Slow Start impacts Regi’s attack and speed for the first five turns, it does not impact it’s insane natural bulk, touting 110/110/110 base defenses.

Knock Off utility is rare in the current format, and overall, Dark/Ground coverage hits the big 6 (Lati@s, Alakazam, Starmie, Magnezone, and Clefable) very well, and allows you to remove Clefable items (assuming you haven’t given it Sticky Barb).

Overall, this set allows Regigigas to be a great stop-gap measure against the big threats while maintaining a lot of annoyance/utility against bulkier teams, particularly if Toxic Spikes are in play.

Sableye @

| Prankster

Relaxed | 248 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SpD

Knock Off
Will-O-Wisp
Recover
Trick

Sableye was the candidate I chose for this team’s Tricky Sticky user. A spin-blocker was necessary due to this team’s use of all entry hazards, so losing them to Donphan would be bad and set back progress. In addition, Sableye entices Heatran or the opposing Clefable to come in to be Tricked, which has great synergy with our Calm Mind Clefable.

The selected moves are not too revolutionary, but it would be bad if I failed to mention that Knock Off should be used selectively, as you often don’t want to Knock Off a Sticky Barb. Ultimately, that comes down to instincts and general play-sense.

Gliscor @

| Poison Heal

Jolly | 244 HP / 52 Def / 192 SpD / 20 Spe

Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Knock Off
Roost

Gliscor is one the most viable Pokemon in the format, so, really it should be no surprise to see it here. It reliably sets Stealth Rock, while being a blanket check for a lot of potential problems for this team (Heatran, Infernape to name the biggest two).

Gliscor’s typing is vital as it gives the team natural ground immunity and resistance to fighting.
In addition, once Toxic Orb is activated, Gliscor acts as a great Knock Off switch in, and sometimes a potential Trick target, as the team does not have a Cleric.

The biggest potential improvement that could have been made to this team in its current form was to change Knock Off to Acrobatics and increase speed to 263. This would help to check Breloom and Heracross. Unfortunately, this was not tested, so I cannot speak fully to the impact this would make on how the team played.

Clefable @

| Unaware

Calm | 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe | 0 Atk IV

Moonblast
Calm Mind
Wish
Protect

Calm Mind Clefable is essentially the glue to the team. Due to our lack of Blissey, we are running specially defensive with speed creep for other Clefable.

Wish allows pivoting to occur, specifically to Regigigas and Forretress who have no way of healing on their own. Calm Mind was chosen so that the team has a legitimate win condition, as well as the synergy with Tricky Sticky Sableye, which often cripples Heatran or Clefable. Most Clefables are physically defensive, so our set also tends to beat those, particularly after Leftovers are removed one way or another. Calm Mind Blissey was very prevalent due to Gengar, and this set can beat that as well over time.

Switching in to most Lati@s sets is crucial for a stall team, and is really where this set shines the most, by allowing flexibility in play and letting Regigigas wait for the correct opportunity to enter play.

Quagsire @

| Unaware

Relaxed | 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def

Ice Beam
Earthquake
Toxic
Recover

Quagsire is the physical dragon-type answer for the team. Due to our Clefable being specially defensive, set up dragons are very difficult to handle.

Ice Beam allows Quagsire to punish dragons that choose to lock into Outrage, and hits Gliscor harder, which is important for this team as it can struggle to break Gliscor otherwise. Earthquake is the best coverage for hitting steel-types and fire-types. Quagsire actually gets Toxic! This is great for hitting select Pokemon like Tangrowth, so that they can be beaten 1v1 by Regigigas.

I have considered Scald > Toxic so that Scizor can be burned to win 1v1 late games, but I do find that Toxic’s utility is too great to give up, and oftentimes Scizor will be Knocked Off and thus can be beaten with a freeze.

Forretress @

| Overcoat

Relaxed | 252 Atk / 4 Atk / 252 Def | 0 Spe IV

Gyro Ball
Spikes
Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin

Forretress provides a lot of utility to the team. Not only does it provide hazard control, but it sets Toxic Spikes that really help this team to wear down opposing bulky teams.

With Overcoat, Forretress is one of the best answers to Breloom in the tier, unless it is running a Toxic Orb set. In addition, due to its typing and natural bulk, Forretress can act as a great blanket check to strong physical breakers such as Mamoswine and Weavile.

Again, the utility of Sticky Barb is amazing with a Rapid Spinner as you often get into situations where spinning is free, or the opponent risks taking ~80% from Gyro Ball.

Overall, this team was very successful on the ladder, and did a great job of handling Gengar in some creative ways. This team is definitely still usable, but can struggle a bit with some of the metagame trends post-Gengar, particularly the prevalence of Choice Band Breloom.

Crawdaunt:

Really has no great switch ins and has way too many opportunities to switch in itself.

Breloom:

Sub Toxic Orb Breloom (with grass coverage); this could potentially be fixed by tweaking the Gliscor spread and opting for Acrobatics > Knock Off. As the team currently stands, Forretress gets PP stalled out of Gyro Balls and then it’s just trouble.

DragMag:

This is inherent to not running Blissey. We’re forced into Specially Defensive Clefable, and therefore don’t have great answers to banded dragons once Forretress is trapped. Specs Magnezone is still annoying on its own anyway since we don’t have a great Flash Cannon switch in.

Azumarill @

| Sap Sipper

Impish | 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def

Play Rough
Scald
Rest
Sleep Talk

The metagame definitely shifted a lot after Gengar was banned. One of the big trends is the prevalence of Banded Breloom, which has extremely limited true switch-ins. After really struggling with Crawdaunt and Weavile on the last team, I saw Sap Sipper Azumarill as a way to compress a LOT of roles into one team slot.

Play Rough allows Azumarill to actually threaten the Pokemon it’s trying to check (Darks + Breloom). But most of the time you’ll actually be clicking Scald to spread status and trying to burn physical attackers like Scizor (which are normally slower than you due to wanting a slow U-turn). Rest + Sleep Talk is there for longevity. Although the team does have Wish passing, Azumarill’s defensive utility is so critical that it must forgo other options for Rest + Sleep Talk.

This set has always been a bit difficult to justify using, but I feel in this current meta on hard-stall only, it has merit.

Rotom-Wash @

| Levitate

Bold | 248 HP / 172 Def / 88 Spe

Hydro Pump
Volt Switch
Will-O-Wisp
Trick

On this team, Rotom-Wash was selected as the Tricky Sticky user because it lures in specially bulky Pokemon to be Tricked and sets the table for our Calm Mind Clefable. In addition, its ability to actively threaten Gliscor long term over the course of a game is something that the last team was severely lacking, and helps this team to avoid (for the most part) endless games. Rotom also relieves some pressure off Azumarill to check certain physical attackers such as Scizor and Feraligatr.

I don’t have much to say about the moveset due to it being very standard beyond running Sticky Barb as the item. The speed allows Rotom to outspeed Jolly Crawdaunt, which is definitely important to be certain of. I do wish that Rotom still had access to Pain Split, as it may have been used over Will-O-Wisp on this team.

One potential option to consider would be to change this Rotom to specially defensive so that the team has something to take on Nidoking and Starmie. Unfortunately, I think that this change would be penny-wise, but pound-foolish as you still would lose to Nidoking over time and lose the additional utility that the physically defensive set provides.

Gliscor @

| Poison Heal

Jolly | 244 HP / 52 Def / 192 SpD / 20 Spe

Defog
Earthquake
Knock Off
Roost

Gliscor is critical to most teams in the format barring hyper offense. It acts as the hazard control for this team, which is acceptable to be Defog due to only having Stealth Rocks from our team.

Gliscor is the only electric immunity on the team, which is crucial for counterplay against opposing Magnezone (especially given the prevalence of Protect on our end), and its overall bulk helps it to blanket check a lot of threats and spread Knock Off throughout the opposing team as Gliscor is the only Knock Off user on the team.

On this team, I’ve considered a more specially-defensive spread as that would limit Heatran and Magnezone more, but I haven’t tested this yet.

Breloom @

| Poison Heal

Impish | 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def

Focus Punch
Toxic
Substitute
Protect

Breloom is basically free to run whatever set it wants on whatever team it wants now that Gengar has been banned. The ability to spread toxic poison reliably is rare in the tier and Breloom was selected for that reason.

Mono-Fighting Breloom is acceptable because of the lack of good ghosts in the tier (just don’t face Haunter!). A physically defensive spread allows Breloom to keep a Substitute against Gliscor and defensive Scizor. Once a Substitute is up, it’s difficult to deal with Breloom without letting a team member get hit with Toxic or to run out of Gliscor PP. This is also a great lead against Tangrowth, an annoyance to our typical Rotom-Wash lead as Breloom simply Protects to activate its Toxic Orb and can threaten a Toxic of its own.

There isn’t much I would change about this set, other than potentially optimizing EVs for Scizor Bullet Punch and putting the rest into special defense.

Heatran @

| Flame Body

Calm | 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD | 0 Atk IV

Stealth Rock
Lava Plume
Earth Power
Protect

Specially defensive Heatran does great against the big 6 (Lati@s, Alakazam, Starmie, Magnezone, and Clefable) in general, and provides unique, useful typing and the ability to punish Scizor clicking U-turn to set up Clefable for end game victory.

Lava Plume was selected as the fire-type STAB for the ability to spread status. Getting free chip damage, particularly with three Protect users on the team is fantastic. Most teams will have a Gliscor to switch into defensive Heatran, so I find the utility of trapping with Magma Storm to be minimal on stall, particularly when I’d rather burn the Gliscor on switch-in.

I’ve considered running Will-O-Wisp > Earth Power if we ran fully SpDef Gliscor. The team would still have something to hit Heatran hard, but would have a more reliable way to burn opposing Gliscor in the early game.

Clefable @

| Unaware

Calm | 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe | 0 Atk IV

Moonblast
Calm Mind
Wish
Protect

Clefable is the team’s glue, and the best specially defensive blanket check in the format barring Blissey.

Wish allows pivoting to occur, specifically to Rotom-Wash and Heatran who have no way of healing on their own, and lower HP stats. Every stall team needs a win condition, and Calm Mind gives this team that option.

In tandem with Heatran, Clefable is able to handle the majority of special threats in the tier with correct prediction and game sense. I cannot stress enough how valuable specially defensive Clefable is when you already have viable answers to physical dragons.

I have had a great time with this team, and think it will be viable on the ladder until the meta changes drastically again.

As always, some threats are difficult to handle.

Nidoking:

You cannot beat this unless they throw it away in front of Rotom-Wash. Even adding Blissey into the mix makes this difficult due to Focus Punch.

Starmie:

Similarly, this thing just does a lot of damage and has great coverage for the team, but this is very beatable with Clefable and good play.

Lucario:

Really annoying due to Meteor Mash. Rotom and Gliscor can check this, but it’s never easy when Clefable has to come in so often.

Replay of Title Picture: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspou-1512369843

UrFrandPenumbra · Feb 20, 2022

Regigigas is cute

Jeong · Feb 22, 2022

Hi,
Congratulations on the peak, it looks like a good team with interesting things.

As you mentioned, I think Nidoking is the biggest threat on this team, you pretty much have no answer to deal with it, only Rotom-W. I don't see a bad idea to invert the EVs from Def to SpD, so you can better withstand Sludge and hit with HPump. It is the only option if you want to keep the same structure.

Hm, this other option is less viable, but maybe making Glisc a bit faster so that he just outruns Nidoking and finishes him off with EQ. Not many expect it. The downside is that you lose some bulk which can be important.

Priority is also a viable and effective way to eliminate this threat, and, analyzing his team, the only one would be Azu (CB + Aqua) but, I highly doubt this since the current version is better and I imagine that it is the base of the team. , as well as being able to get into things like loom with no problem.

latios777 · Mar 30, 2022

Why is sableye using a relaxed nature?. Use impish nature, but not sure if you are reducing gyro ball damage or something.
I think that normal sableye set would be better, especially on your team with 3 knock off users. Just use foul play or taunt with leftovers.
Another change is giving a flying move to gliscor as you said, breloom can be anoying. Ice fang is other option for dragons.

BDSP Ignorance is “Not Blissey”: Tricky Sticky Stall Teams - Peak #5 (1792 Elo)

The Goomy

Whitest Mexican Alive

UrFrandPenumbra

Jeong

Banned deucer.

latios777

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