SM OU HO Team: Too busy to defog

How do you think the team will fare in current OU meta?


  • Total voters
    24
A new team I am trying out that feels good thus far, but not so high up the ladder that I have any success to back up my theory. Please critique as you wish, or try it out yourself if you're curious. The team features no hazard removal, no taunt user, no cleric, just one volt-switch user that rarely ever uses the move, a leftovers user that runs Explosion (and rarely ever lasts more than 2 turns) -- the team basically begs for super fast games and is my most "in your face" HO team so far.

Let's get started with my teambuilding thought process:

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I started off with Magnezone actually, as my previous HO team was getting rekt by a lot of steel types, and this baby can deal with (most of) them.
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Tapu Lele synergises rather well with Magnezone, and also runs Psychic terrain, which takes priority out of the game.
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Mega Alakazam uses psychic terrain to outspeed everything un-scarfed, boost its STAB, and also Trace when needed. If there's one thing I hate nearly as much as all those pesky steel types, it's those Mega Swampert, Excadrill and other mons that sweep through an ability's usage.
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Landorus-T functions as the native stealth rocker and de facto team lead. One of my 3 SMOU mainstays, that I just can't do without. My physical check at times.
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Zapdos has a rather weird (and perhaps frowned upon) function of haxing, and is a special check with an Assault Vest set that has served me surprisingly well enough to always have it in my SMOU teams.
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Kartana is literally the only physical offence in the entire team, the final one of my 3 mainstays in OU (Lando-T, Zapdos, Kartana), and pretty much outspeeds the entire metagame with its scarf and Psychic Terrain in play.

Magnezone traps steel types. Tapu Lele is synergetic with Zapdos and acts as a wallbreaker. Landorus-T leads, rocks and is a physical check. Zapdos haxes and is my special check as well as main pivot. Kartana and Alakazam outspeed entire scarf-less metagame under Psychic terrain, and these two serve as my lategame cleaners. So that was my teambuilding thought process. You must be skeptical about a few options or comments: let's dive into the teams so I can get it over with and you can let me know what you think. I really do look forward to feedback and criticism.

The Team
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Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Earthquake
- Toxic

My lead and scout. Stealth Rock is the main ability. Depending on enemy team, I'll either rock 'em and switch out, or maybe even Explode first turn if I think SR won't do much to their lineup and the burst of momentum through un-resisted explosion is worth it. Earthquake is the basic STAB of Lando-T, no explanation required -- though I personally never get the chance to use it the way I play this mon in this team. Finally, Toxic, instead of U-Turn. I respect momentum but this team of mine is extremely fast and glass-cannon like even at times, and I appreciate Toxic support to wear down some bulkier mons that the heavy hitters of this team may eventually face issues against. The EV spread might also seem a bit weird at first glance. Max HP for bulk: no confusion there. Max special defense, though, helps Landorus take some water STABS and maybe some weaker HP Ice as well. Landorus-T's role in the game is to lead, scout, trade-off, and sometimes just come off as a switch-in to Intimidate and lower attack stat. I can't remember the last time I used Earthquake, as I'm almost always exploding or dying after SR+Toxic and a switch-in somewhere in between. At one point I thought since it doesn't last that many turns, could I run Rocky Helmet (due to its bulk) instead of Leftovers. But I realized it isn't really drawing in that much +0 contact moves, so I stuck with Leftovers to be able to use some Toxic/Explosion even after taking 1-3 hits.

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Tapu Lele @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
After leading with Landorus-T, I either die (through getting rekt or using Explosion) and introduce Tapu Lele, or switch from Lando-T to Zapdos. The reason I bring out Tapu Lele so early is to start the hyperoffence game and not let them rest or setup. With Choice Specs, it functions as a decent mid-game wallbreaker to weaken enemy mons for Kartana or Mega Zam to sweep later. I even lead with it if the enemy has Sableye, or I suspect the enemy may lead with Gren to get momentum early on. Getting Psychic Surge up early is also quite useful when I see a Mega Swampert or Excadrill on the bench getting ready to come in for Swift Swim / Sand Rush boosted sweeps (refer to Mega Alakazam's description). Psychic surge also prevents Lopunny, Mega Medicham etc. from chipping at my team early on with their Fake Outs. In terms of moves, I run STAB Moonblast, seemingly redundant STAB Psychic + Psyshock (not to catch Chansey, I don't even try that, but to make well calculated hits for more HP depending on enemy lineup), and HP Fire. To be honest, I haven't found myself use HP Fire a lot because my Tapu Lele usually comes in very early to weaken enemy mons with its STAB moves and leave. It's there in case both Zapdos and Magnezone have had bad days at the steel-killing game. I usually don't keep Tapu Lele out to die, and switch back to either Lando or Zapdos (or Mag if there's a steel type in my face). The reason I switch it back, is sometimes to sacrifice Landorus and let Mega Zam come in and have some fun on Psychic surge, and sometimes to ensure I have a lategame Psychic surge in hand for Mega Zam to sweep without fear of priority. The EVs indicate the early/mid-game wallbreaking intentions I have along with the Choice Specs.

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Zapdos @ Assault Vest
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Volt Switch
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Enter the Hax-mon. Not the "heart" of the team in terms of teambuilding process, but my favorite mon and comfort go-to guy. With full EV investment with HP and Special Defense combined with Assault Vest, it is an amazing special wall. And for the physical mons? Stone Edge kills this bird, but other than that, people have to go through Static as well as at least a round of Discharge -- often paralyzing physical contact hitters. Here's the simple math: if it gets hit by a contact move and can get off a discharge, it has 51% to paralyze in one round. If it switches in, gets hit by contact, and gets hit again next round and uses discharge, it has 65% chance to paralyze. These odds may seem "low" but he's doing this while hitting with its decent STAB Discharge, keeping up momentum and ensuring safe entries for others with its somewhat slow Volt Switch, and covering steels with Heat Wave and Lando/Gliscor etc. with HP Ice. Due to investment in SpD + Assault Vest and due to Contact+Discharge, it's my main pivot, for both physical and special attackers. It walls special enemies, and threatens to paralyze physical foes, all the while, not losing momentum. Some of the other mon sets in this team may be more conventional or "logical", this Zapdos set is the one that I play best and maneuver with.

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Magnezone @ Electrium Z
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]

I don't really have the temperament or patience to dance around Celesteela, Ferrothron, Heatran, Magearna and other annoying steel types. This is why I started this team off with the master of the Magnet Pull. The philosophy behind Magnezone's gameplay is simple: trap the steel type on enemy that rest of my team probably can't deal with, kill them, die, and maybe deliver one round of damage to someone else (but the last one's a bonus). HP fire is for killing steel, Thunderbolt and Flash Cannnon are STABS to deal damage and coverage. Substitute is there in case it gets the chance to use it on Ferrothorn etc, so that it can block Leech Seed and other annoying moves, abuse a predicted Protect from enemy, have a round of STAB damage on the next enemy. Electrium Z lets Magnezone use Gigavolt Havoc, that deals well to 2HKO many variants of Magearna, as well as inflict good damage on anyone that doesn't resist it. EV investments are in special attack to power up its moves, and speed to get substitute up on weaker foes (and obviously to outspeed/revenge-kill, though that rarely happens). In terms of what it can and cannot cover: Kartana, Heatran and Magearna sometimes get away. Choice-locked Kartana can still be dealt with some prediction and patience, many variants of Magearna can be dealt with eventually, and Magnezone can take a Lava Plume from a bulky Hetran and survive to deliver a thunderbolt / Gigavolt havoc. Magnezone is a super-niche steel-trapper that does what it's supposed to, and sometimes (as a bonus) deals pretty great damage to those that don't OHKO it and don't resist it too hard.

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Kartana @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike
- Knock Off

The only physical powerhouse in the team. Choice Scarf plus max EV in Speed allows it to outspeed Alakazam, non-scarf Greninja, most scarf-users, and a decent number of rock polish or +2 speed users as well. Leaf Blade is the go-to STAB, while Sacred Sword, STAB Smart Strike and Knock Off allow coverage. Knock Off is also a useful scouting tool, and gets rid of some annoying Leftovers and other items. Even though Kartana is more than capable of checking a lot of physical mons, I don't usually switch it in unless I am absolutely sure it won't die. Standard Scarf Kartana play: revenge kill/hit a switch-in, then get out, keep it protected for late-game sweep.


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Alakazam @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball

Standard Mega Alakazam set (though Energy Ball isn't preferred by everyone). STAB Psychic hits hard (especially with Psychic terrain boost), Focus Blast and Shadow Ball covers well, and I love Energy Ball for taking out a lot of annoying bulky water types, plus Calm Mind doesn't suit this team's style of play. I play Alakazam similar to Kartana (come in safe, revenge kill or hit a switch in, leave, protect for lategame sweep), except two key differences. Firstly, Zam isn't choice locked, so it threatens to stay in longer, and maybe even weaken the last few mons before Kartana comes in. Secondly and more importantly, Alakazam's abilities Magic Guard and Trace, and choosing when to evolve. One of the many glaring weaknesses of this team is total lack of hazard control. While stealth rocks really don't hurt me that much, and enemies usually don't get the opportunity to do spikes, Stick Web can be a major issue. This is why if I ever do suspect Sticky Web and can't get rid of the user, I usually wait to Mega Evolve. Same goes with potential bulky Toxic users, but I still do prefer the trade-off of getting Toxic poisoned as Zam doesn't stay out consecutively that long. Another reason in hesitation in Mega Evolving is when I'm up against ability-based sweepers, such as Mega Swampert. When I first send Zam out, I usually wait for their "main man" to come out (if they already aren't out) before I mega evolve so that I can Trace their ability. Once I have already Mega Evolved in a game, I am always careful about when to keep Zam in, how to rotate the switches, so that it can come into Trace an ideal enemy (or better put, so that it does not miss-out on a must-have Trace that becomes a win-con). With Psychic Surge support to negate priority, and Trace to copy enemy abilities, between Mega Alakazam and Kartana -- they don't get outsped that often, and that often means the difference between victory and defeat in extreme HO style of gameplay.​

Summary:
So here's the roundup: Landorus-T either rocks, explodes, or both, or gets out with/without placing rocks. The only reason it comes back later is to check physical threats or sacrifice itself to let Kartana/Alakazam come in. Basically suicide lead + scout + (rarely) physical check. Zapdos is the offensive pivot (without recovery though) that walls special moves and threatens to hax physical contact. It does have decent coverage and STAB moves. Magnezone is what it's supposed to be: steel killer. Tapu Lele is an early game wallbreaker that chips away at health, and also introduces Psychic Surge (usually 2, max 3 times a game) to boost Zam's STAB as well as negate overall priority. Tapu Lele rarely leads, depending on enemy lineup and how I think they will play it. Kartana and Mega Alakazam are the two revenge-killers, and lategame sweepers; with Kartana wanting to hog all the revenge kills for its Beast boost, and Mega Alakazam looking to address win-cons or profit off enemy abilities with its Trace.

Threats:
Hazards. The team totally neglects Defog or Spin (Landorus-T not reliable enough, Zapdos running Assault Vest, and anyway, it's just a waste of a turn for this team to Defog rocks away). Sticky Web is the only hazard the team has any real complaints with. The team doesn't always take out (some variants of) Magearna reliably. Mega Sableye can be tricky sometimes, especially if they rotate well and understand what I am trying it do. Stall with some momentum can sometimes be tricky, but can be dealt with mostly. The team has a crushing physical wallbreaking dependence on Kartana alone. Due to this, Chansey/Blissey with some "interesting" sets can be difficult to deal with sometimes, though it's usually possible to keep Kartana protected enough to be able to deal with blobs later on. The other Tapus sometimes interfere with Terrain dominance (especially Tapu Fini preventing Zapdos from haxing), but that's a minor inconvenience at best.

EDIT: I have since replaced Landorus with jolly, max Atk and Spe, and Stealth rock, defog, earthquake and rock tomb. Here's a replay I share:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-918753020
 
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737373elj

Banned deucer.
Ok, I’m just typing this for cookiemonster450 ’s sake. I saw that some people voted that the team has some holes and problems in it, but nobody has replied and said what. Could somebody explain, because I can’t find anything wrong with it (maybe because I’m a noob ;) ).
 
Ok, I’m just typing this for cookiemonster450 ’s sake. I saw that some people voted that the team has some holes and problems in it, but nobody has replied and said what. Could somebody explain, because I can’t find anything wrong with it (maybe because I’m a noob ;) ).
Thanks. I didn't want to spam my own post, since I already bumped once and don't know forum rules that well. Can anyone looking at this please help me improve the team, or tell me my biggest teambuilding flaws, I am keen to learn!
 
Don't be so impatient :D A good rate needs some time, you just posted the team^^
Gonna give it a quick rate from my smartphone so you have something to start with, hopefully someone else will give a better rate within the next couple of days ;)

The team has some good ideas, but it seems like a weird mixture between HO and some balance mons thrown in. So lets go the HO route:
- On Lando, use a suicide lead set. Sash, max Attk and Speed (Jolly). Maybe Defog over Toxic and rock Tomb over explode to help with webs?
- Lele locked into the wrong move is a problem, since the defensive core is not reliable enough to switch in and out repeatedly. So give it a twisted spoon, go with Moonblast, Psyshock and HP Fire, use calm mind in the last slot (or even taunt?). Helps with Stall a lot!
- Kartana: Consider Defog over Knock as emergency Option.
- Zapdos: Don't like it too much on this team. While AV seems good, it keeps Zapdos from using Roost, which is too good to give up on. How about replacing it with Psychic Seed Hawlucha to add another Wincon? Use Adamant with Swords Dance, HJk and Acrobatics. On the last slot, I recommend Stone Edge, which kills Zapdos after Rocks. This helps Kartana Sweep!

Hope this helped a little, good luck laddering ;)
 
Don't be so impatient :D A good rate needs some time, you just posted the team^^
Gonna give it a quick rate from my smartphone so you have something to start with, hopefully someone else will give a better rate within the next couple of days ;)

The team has some good ideas, but it seems like a weird mixture between HO and some balance mons thrown in. So lets go the HO route:
- On Lando, use a suicide lead set. Sash, max Attk and Speed (Jolly). Maybe Defog over Toxic and rock Tomb over explode to help with webs?
- Lele locked into the wrong move is a problem, since the defensive core is not reliable enough to switch in and out repeatedly. So give it a twisted spoon, go with Moonblast, Psyshock and HP Fire, use calm mind in the last slot (or even taunt?). Helps with Stall a lot!
- Kartana: Consider Defog over Knock as emergency Option.
- Zapdos: Don't like it too much on this team. While AV seems good, it keeps Zapdos from using Roost, which is too good to give up on. How about replacing it with Psychic Seed Hawlucha to add another Wincon? Use Adamant with Swords Dance, HJk and Acrobatics. On the last slot, I recommend Stone Edge, which kills Zapdos after Rocks. This helps Kartana Sweep!

Hope this helped a little, good luck laddering ;)
Thanks for your feedback. I tried psychic seed Hawlucha but another sweeper just wasn't what I needed, Zapdos still works better for me than Hawlucha. Maybe something else? (I need something that can take a hit and a half, and still have some offensive power, Hawlucha too fragile). I am now using Ethe variant of Lando you suggested, with EQ, Defog, Rock Tomb and rocks. I am really liking this lead as it allows me to either get rocks up / defog pesky webs, and 2HKO a lot of frail sash-users with the help of the -1 speed from rock tomb. I tried using defog on Kartana, but I seemed to have needed knock off a few times there. Plus I haven't been having too much trouble in the hazard department honestly.

Currently I am having a lot of trouble killing Cresselia; I know I probably won't make a big change in team just for cresselia, but inability to KO it is causing problems with lunar dance as well as dual screens. Any tips to deal with it (in terms of gameplay, not teambuilding). Also, I seem to be somewhat susceptible to trick room teams. I mostly "wear out" the trick room turns with Zapdos/Magnezone and make some sacrifices here and there to emerge, but I see myself struggling most against those variants.

After I started using the Lando lead you suggested, I seemed to have laddered better, now breaking past mid 1400s (previously stuck in a weird 1200-1300 plateau). If I go beyond 1500, maybe I'll post some replays (in case anyone reading the post may want). I seem to be okay with most extreme or defensive stalls (balanced stalls going about 60-40 in my favor), weather based teams are not causing that much problems, I am cool with variants of Magearna that don't go bulk+volt switch. Mega Mawile and Sableye don't threaten me. I am cool with Greninjas of all varieties. The teams I lose most to are trick room users, and sticky web users when I have misplayed Landorus (run out of defog). I still feel strongly about using my AV Zapdos despite lack of recovery, I just love the special bulk and contact paralysis chances (it's just too ingrained in my playstyle), but I am reconsidering using defog on Kartana (as you suggested) instead of knock off, as minus speed really cripples my team a lot.

Thanks for helping me out again!

Edit: Here's a replay from my most recent win and highest ladder so far, hoping to break 1500 soon. I am sharing since you helped me so much with your Lando tip. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-918753020
 
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Like you said your only physical offensive presence is Kartana,so Chansey looks like a big threat.
Change your Landorus to Z-move Swords Dance set.
This does however make you weak to Charizard x so change your Zapdos to rocky helmet phys def set.
Since lando has Zmove now you change your magnezone to Assault vest to handle special attackers better.
Plus one Volcarona will run through your team so don allow it to set up(be careful about locking kartana into leaf blade)
Scarf Blacephalon is also a big threat since there is no ghost or fire resist so dont sack your kartana otherwise you cant revenge it and will get swept.
Hope this helps!
 
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Like you said your only physical offensive presence is Kartana,so Chansey looks like a big threat.
Change your Landorus to Z-move Swords Dance set.
This does however make you weak to Charizard x so change your Zapdos to rocky helmet phys def set.
Since lando has Zmove now you change your magnezone to Assault vest to handle special attackers better.
Plus one Volcarona will run through your team so don allow it to set up(be careful about locking kartana into leaf blade)
Scarf Blacephalon is also a big threat since there is no ghost or fire resist so dont sack your kartana otherwise you cant revenge it and will get swept.
Hope this helps!
Before I say anything: mad respect for laddering so high using the Manectric VoltTurn set (Koko, Lele, Lando, Kommo, Mag). I myself loved playing it though it's different from my playstyle.

I previously used a double-dance Lando on a different team. On this team, I have liked swords dance so far, but would like the option of Rock polish sometimes (not both of course). Right now I am torn between the following 5 moves: Stealth Rock, Earthquake, Fly, Swords Dance, Rock Polish. So far, I am keeping Rock Polish out. Is there a way I can fit that into this team? I don't seem to have any other reliable Stealth Rocker.

I am wary of all the times I shouldn't sack Kartana, but you're right, that's still something I need to be extra careful about.
 

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