Heliolisk (qc 0/3)

[Ranger Mike]

Overview
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• Got Hyper Voice from move tutors which gives it a usable Normal-type STAB
• Better movepool than Jolteon
• Somewhat better typing than Jolteon.
• Can lure in and kill most Ground-types.
• Can be a good addition to dedicated weather teams although they aren't too common.
• Has pretty bad 4mss.
• Slower than Jolteon meaning that it cannot outspeed threats such as Mega Pidgeot and Dugtrio.
• Being a Doublade check isn't nearly as valuable as before because of the addition of lots of other Doublade checks/counters along with Doublade not being as good as it was in XY.

Special Attacker
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name: Special Attacker
move 1: Volt Switch
move 2: Hyper Voice
move 3: Grass Knot
move 4: Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Ice
ability: Dry Skin
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

• Hyper Voice is used for STAB and having pretty good neutral coverage, this is very useful against things such as Eelektross, Lanturn, and Gligar which it has a very high chance of 2hkoing!
• Volt Switch allows Heliolisk to gain momentum and escape non-Ground-type switch ins.
• Thunderbolt is a stronger Electric-type STAB move that doesn't switch Heliolisk out.
• Grass Knot hits Rhyperior and Quagsire.
• Hidden Power Ice can be used to hit for Gligar and Mega Sceptile for massive damage which can be very beneficial.
• Surf is another good move for Helioisk that hits Gligar and Mega Camerupt, two pokemon that are good checks to Heliolisk.
• Focus Blast makes Heliolisk able to break through bulky Normal-types and Registeel, both of which Heliolisk struggles with.

Set Details
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• EV spread maximizes Heliolisk's speed and firepower.
• Life Orb gives its attacks extra oomph.
• Choice Specs provides more power than Life Orb and comes with no recoil, however, it locks Heliolisk into one move. This is very detrimental to Heliolisk because it relies on its outstanding coverage.
• Dry Skin is used to allow Heliolisk to switch into Water-types easier.

Usage Tips
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• Heliolisk is not so much a wallbreaker as it is a fast sweeper that has terrific coverage.
• Heliolisk cannot switch in on many things because even some Water-types such as Alomomola have toxic which is not good for Heliolisk at all.
• Be very careful when using Volt Switch should Mega Sceptile be on the opposing team.
• Heliolisk is best off spamming its STABs, should a Ground-type switch in, nail it with Grass Knot or Hidden Power Ice should Heliolisk have it.
• Heliolisk is worn down very quickly with Life Orb recoil and hazard damage so be very wary of that.

Team Options
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• Hazards let Heliolisk wear down its counters so setters such as Rhyperior and Cobalion are good teammates. Bronzong can also set up Stealth Rock for your team should it be a bulky one.
• Fire-types such as Houndoom and Moltres beat the Grass and bulky Steel-types that counter Heliolisk.
• Fellow voltturners pair very well with Heliolisk, examples include Mega Pidgeot, Pangoro, and Moltres.
• Wallbreakers that apply lots of offensive pressure such as Pangoro and Dragalge.
• Swords Dance Users are very compatible s with Helioisk as they no longer need to fear Scald due to Heliolisk's Dry Skin. In return, Swords Dance users such as Life Orb Drapion and Cobalion can break the bulkier teams that Heliolisk struggles against.

Other Options
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• U-turn
• Subcharge
• Dragon Tail
• Parabolic Charge
• Twave
• Solar Power

Checks & Counters
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**Grass-types**: Such as Rotom-C, Mega Sceptile, and Ferroseed can all beat Heliolisk although the latter two should be weary of Hidden Power Ice.
**Bulky Steel-Types**: The greatest example of this is Magneton who resists all of Heliolisk's attacks, but other examples are Assault Vest Escavalier, Registeel, and Bronzong.
**Dugtrio**: While Dugtrio can only come in on Volt Switch and/or Thunderbolt, it is faster than Heliolisk and has Arena Trap, meaning Heliolisk cannot switch out. Dugtrio then proceeds to kill Heliolisk with Earthquake.
**Faster Attackers / Priority**: Pokemon such as Mega Sceptile and Mega Pidgeot, who 2hkos Heliolisk with Heat Wave, can outspeed and cripple Heliolisk. Priority users such as Spiritomb and Hitmonlee also are really bad for Heliolisk as they can OHKO with Sucker Punch and Mach Punch respectively.
**Specially Defensive Gligar**: Specially Defensive Gligar can switch in on every move in Heliolisk's arsenal bar Hidden Power Ice and Surf, then proceed to knock it out with Earthquake.
**Mega Camerupt**: Mega Camerupt can come in on and sponge every move except for Surf and can retaliate with a very powerful STAB attack.

 

[Molk]

In my personal opinion, Volt Switch absolutely *has* to be on the set, it's an absolutely amazing move and the ability to build up chip damage against some of your checks while also gaining momentum is just too good to pass up imo. Because of this, i'd suggest changing the set in the OP to....


The Lizard of Oz
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name: Lizard of Oz
move 1: Volt Switch
move 2: Hyper Voice
move 3: Grass Knot
move 4: Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Ice
ability: Dry Skin
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Given that Hyper Voice reaches 135 Base Power with STAB Factored in, Hidden Power Ice only outdamages Hyper Voice against Tyrantrum, Gligar, Mega Sceptile, and Rhyperior. At first it might seem like these targets are very notable, but when it really gets down to it: Rhyperior and Tyrantrum are taking just as much, if not more, than Grass Knot anyway, and both Sceptile and Gligar are getting 2HKOed by Hyper Voice after Stealth Rock damage. This means that Hidden Power Ice isn't really needed imo, and i think it's pretty feasible to squeeze both Thunderbolt and Volt Switch onto the same set. Of course straight up OHKOing Gligar instead of 2HKOing it after Stealth Rock is pretty notable so i think leaving Hidden Power Ice slashed after Thunderbolt is fine, but if any QC members think that Hidden Power Ice should just be relegated to set details and/or think a different move should be slashed with Thunderbolt i wouldn't be opposed to that.

 

[aVocado]

[Overview]
- mention that being slower than Jolteon is bad because it can't outspeed mega pidgeot, and some other random threats (base form sceptile, dugtrio)
- mention dry scald cockblocking mola, making helio fear nothing but toxic (which admittedly is bad but not terrible)
- doubade counter is an overstatement, say doublade check. also it's not that its not important anymore; it's that there are a lot more checks/doublade isn't as good as before
- shaky on the statement about weather teams simply because you never see them. could probably go with removing that point.

[The Lizard of Oz]
- name is terrible js
- i dont like tbolt being slashed with volt switch and a couple other qc members agree with me.. either slash it with HP ice or put it in moves.
- specify eelektross, lanturn, gligar, as targets hyper voice hits. (80 something chance of 2HKOing phys def gligar)
- hyper voice hits harder than x2 HP Ice so note that (hits amoon/tang/dug more etc)

[Set Details]
- definitely remove solar power.
- when mentioning specs mention that a good thing about Heliolisk is its scary coverage, and without the ability to switch up moves, it can be a bit easier to play around.

[Usage Tips]
this needs some work. specify that Heliolisk isn't a wallbreaker, it's more of a sweeper with good coverage. mention that heliolisk really can't switch into much except into things like lanturn or alomomola thanks to dry skin, and even then it doesn't appreciate toxic from mola but it mostly scares it away. I'm shaky about the point of predicting Ground-type switch-ins mainly because with Heliolisk you mostly don't need to predict, just use either STAB (whichever more appropriate in the situation, like use hyper voice if opp has gligar) and if a ground type does come in, then use the move that kills them. this eases prediction and doesn't mess you up if the opponent doesn't play according to what you predicted. note that heliolisk is easily worn down with sr, LO, and constantly switching in/out. Make sure to specify being careful using volt switch if mega sceptile is on opposing teams.

[Team Options]
This also needs work. first of all, mention VoltTurners as they go well with eachother, Mega Pidgeot specifically. Meloetta, Moltres, and something like parting shot pangoro can probably work too. Omastar isn't the best example of setting up rocks so I'd mention Rhyperior, Cobalion, and maybe Bronzong if on bulkier teams. Mention wallbreakers that pressure opposing walls that Heliolisk has trouble breaking through, Dragalge and angoro again are obvious, banded tyrantrum, etc.

[OO]
remove signal beam, remove sand veil (lol), idk if subcharge is worth mentioning tbh, definitely remove dragon tail.

[C&C]
Mention faster threats: Mega Sceptile, Mega Pidgeot (2HKOs with Heat Wave, does like 53% minimum, so note that), common choice scarfers. Also mention priority, mach punch, sucker punch (spiritomb OHKO's after SR i think with black glasses), etc.

I'll take a look after you do all that :]

 

[col49]

yeah, go with molk's slashes, the only hp ice target pertinent enough (read: both relevant and hit for damage substantial enough to make it worth using) here is spdef gligar, which is very good rn and should be acknowledged more substantially. it might honestly be better to just go with main set of volt switch / hyper voice / tbolt / gk, mentioning hp ice, focus blast (allows for breaking through spdef normals / registeel more handily), and surf (covers both spdef gligar and m-camel in one moveslot) in moves for their respective, comparably niche applications. a huge boon to this pokemon is its ability to pivot bulky waters so handily, making scald spam so much less mindlessly gainful and implying immediate pressure in turn with its stab, whilst being able to beat most volt switch immunities with appropriate coverage, making it a v.consistent pivot. this holds a ton of value for offensive builds, which should be stressed heavily in the overview, since i would go as far as to say this pokemon is suboptimal on all but heavy offense, since balance has much more efficient methods of handling the issues heliolisk looks to compress. likewise, you can stress pokemon that can threaten more defensive builds, but don't actively appreciate being forced to stay in on bulky waters and risk a scald burn to do well. examples of this include sd (lo) drapion, cobalion, and so forth.

 

[atomicllamas]

Ranger Dave you implemented Arikado and Molk's stuff but never said anything e_e

to summarize what 49 said, add SpD Gligar and Mega Camerupt to C&C as they both kind of wreck Heliolisk, add surf to moves as it can hit both of these at the same time. Add the above mentioned pokemon to teammates (LO SD Drapion, SD Cobalion other SD mons) as it switches into Scald for free, and pressures the opponent to not use Scald, while these Pokemon can deal with the bulkier teams that Helio struggles with. Remove Grass-types from teammates, Heliolisk beats all relevant Ground-types barring SpD Gligar and SpD Mega Camel, which Grass-types don't really help with.

do this and QC approved 1/3

 

[Ranger Mike]

I will implement those things asap and I didn't think i got everything e.e

 

[Expulso]

where is a scarf set? it seems really useful on hyper offensive teams, as it acts as an offensive check to mega Pidgeot and Fletchinder while also being a revenge killer of decent power. furthermore, it's extremely fast, and can also rk mega sceptile with hp ice.

boop

 

[aVocado]

where is a scarf set? it seems really useful on hyper offensive teams, as it acts as an offensive check to mega Pidgeot and Fletchinder while also being a revenge killer of decent power. furthermore, it's extremely fast, and can also rk mega sceptile with hp ice.

At this point I think it's better to post it as a separate set if it's decided it should get it. For now, emphasize scarf on OO (because I do find it at least /that/ viable lol) and consider this QC approved 2/3 assuming you implemented everything me/49/llamas went over o.o Ranger Dave

can't forget my kitty stamp

 

[Molk]

hey Ranger Dave, are you still working on this?

If so, i'd strongly consider removing mentions of Hidden Power Ice entirely. Both targets (Mega Sceptile and Gligar) of the move moved up by usage in the latest tier shift, and as far i can tell there's absolutely nothing else you're hitting that isn't already being hit just as hard if not harder by Thunderbolt/Hyper Voice/Grass Knot

 

[Punchshroom]

Grass Knot hits Rhyperior and Quagsire.

Quagsire already gets 2HKOed by Hyper Voice; replace with Gastrodon.

Also remove HP Ice plus Gligar and Mega Scept (and other mons no longer in RU etc.) mentions.

 

[aVocado]

Ranger Helmut how is the progress on this? A lot of stuff changed in the tier so the skeleton needs a rehaul

 

[Ranger Mike]

Yeah with the tier shifts I don't really feel ill have time for this. Sorry