It's already BL, it will not be RU, it's one of the best sweepers in UU so it will either be upper UU or low OU.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon Hawlucha
- Thread starter Molk
- Start date
- Status
Damn Troll Freak, if this thing got Brave Bird it would've been GREAT
I was thinking about breeding an Hawlucha, but I can't decide between Unburden and Mold Breaker (I'm not sure whether it's avaiable or not). What do you think is the best ability for this guy? Mold screws with Sturdy users and allows to use Earthquake con Rotom, but Unburden lets him being freaking fast.
It depends too much on which set you are aiming for since the abilities themselves are complimentary to the sets than being interchangeable. Mold is more a revenge killer or clean up while Unburden is obviously a one time set up sweeper.
But is Mold Breaker avaiable? I don't see Hawlucha in Friend Safari. http://www.serebii.net/xy/friendsafari.shtml
Edit: never mind, I looked for him in fighting, but actually he's in the flying safari.
Last edited:
If it fell to UU/Flying Gem was available Unburden would've been better
Yeah, I know the story. Too good for UU, hard to fit in OU. Considering ORSA are quite close, in the end I decided to breed an adamant one with Unburden; those freaking gems will come, sooner later.
Me too. I'm breeding a shiny one
It's not necessarily banned from UU for good. They're quickbanning everything potentially banned, and then they're suspecting them to see if they fit. Hawlucha hasn't been suspected yet, so it might make it back in. As for OU, you're totally right. It doesn't really fit in because of a certain Sword-and-Shield and one very potent flamebird. Seriously, priority screws this thing hard. That being said, if it's counters are out of play end game, this can clean up alright.
This thing absolutely blows as a sweeper in OU, but it makes a pretty potent BPer. It's been my only staple on a team that's made it into the 1700s, and whilst I've only had a small handful of matches where it's swept, I've had very few matches where I haven't been able to pass off a SD to another sweeper - often for the game. Aegislash walls it, but can't do jack to stop a pass. Talonflame and Mega Pinsir check it, but can't safely come in on it.
With the absence of the gems, what's really holding Hawlucha back is everyone's insistence on playing it as an Unburden sweeper. Unburden can only activate once, so this puts enormous pressure on the Hawlucha player to get the sweep right the first time or have a wasted Pokemon slot. It has far more utility as a support Pokemon, since it has the firepower to put enormous pressure on anything trying to stop it supporting its team.
With the absence of the gems, what's really holding Hawlucha back is everyone's insistence on playing it as an Unburden sweeper. Unburden can only activate once, so this puts enormous pressure on the Hawlucha player to get the sweep right the first time or have a wasted Pokemon slot. It has far more utility as a support Pokemon, since it has the firepower to put enormous pressure on anything trying to stop it supporting its team.
You are definitely on to something! Mold Breaker Taunt, Encore, recovery, access to four different boosting moves plus Baton Pass and U-turn make Hawlucha a great support Pokemon. Hawlucha makes a very good anti-lead or Baton Passer.
Hawlucha needs substitute if it wants to do battle in the OU tier. Substitute is a MUST for the likes of Talonflame, and Mega Pinsir. It even helps against Aegislash, since it needs to break the sub, its vulnerable in its attack form, and sometimes you can win the guessing game. It needs Hi Jump Kick for overall quick damage if it can't set up. It needs swords dance to sweep teams. It also needs acrobatics for an accurate and powerful move once item is used up.
Now, for the item. Can't use flying gem this gen, power herb sucks cause it forces you to use sky attack. The best item for Hawlucha right now is the Sitrus Berry. This combined with substitute can make Hawlucha gain his Unburden ability easily and it gives him more health to use another substitute if it needs to. That is why Substitute is a MUST for Hawlucha.
As for the overall strategy, I use him as my physical sweeper on my team and I've beaten teams with 3 hard counters to him, Aegislash, Talonflame and Mega Pinsir. Mostly for guessing right against Aegislash when I have +2 attack from a previous swords dance. For Talonflame, mostly cause I had substitute up and Talonflame was the only pokemon able to break the sub cause no others were quick enough and same for Mega Pinsir unless they think one step ahead of me it will work or they underestimate Hawlucha so they let it set up for a turn before switching to the counter. Also, I hardly ever switch into Hawlucha, once one of my pokemon faints and I see his counters with little health or already fainted, then I'll revenge kill and set up with Hawlucha.
Its not a bad pokemon. Its underestimated. Just make sure to have an Aegislash, Talonflame, Pinsir and Zapdos counter on your team if you plan to use Hawlucha.
Now, for the item. Can't use flying gem this gen, power herb sucks cause it forces you to use sky attack. The best item for Hawlucha right now is the Sitrus Berry. This combined with substitute can make Hawlucha gain his Unburden ability easily and it gives him more health to use another substitute if it needs to. That is why Substitute is a MUST for Hawlucha.
As for the overall strategy, I use him as my physical sweeper on my team and I've beaten teams with 3 hard counters to him, Aegislash, Talonflame and Mega Pinsir. Mostly for guessing right against Aegislash when I have +2 attack from a previous swords dance. For Talonflame, mostly cause I had substitute up and Talonflame was the only pokemon able to break the sub cause no others were quick enough and same for Mega Pinsir unless they think one step ahead of me it will work or they underestimate Hawlucha so they let it set up for a turn before switching to the counter. Also, I hardly ever switch into Hawlucha, once one of my pokemon faints and I see his counters with little health or already fainted, then I'll revenge kill and set up with Hawlucha.
Its not a bad pokemon. Its underestimated. Just make sure to have an Aegislash, Talonflame, Pinsir and Zapdos counter on your team if you plan to use Hawlucha.
I know I'm a little late to the discussion, but I think I'll add my two cents in anyway.
Ever since I saw this little critter he's become my new favourite pokemon (move over aggron, new kid on the block), and while I agree he's a weak OU pokemon (or at least an extremely niche one), I do think he has a right to be there.
Hawlucha@Red card
Adamant
Unburden
Swords Dance
High Jump Kick
Acrobatics
Baton Pass
252hp, 252atk, 4speed
I've run a few sets on him, but perhaps the most effective one relies on no-one expecting him to be run like it. As we all know, hawluchas greatest assets are his +2 speed and attack, combined with a few really hard hitting moves. The red card means that he only needs to be hit once, from any move, and he's off. It catches the opponent completely off guard (if a bad poke gets thrown in, it even gives the opportunity to get another swords off, if you're feeling greedy). His speed is already more than respectable, so he has no use for extra EVs in speed (I put a few in there just to help him out, but they could happily go in either defence), meaning all that extra bulk results in him taking that hit far better than would be expected, often allowing a second hit from a non-super move.
The other trick in this set is Baton pass. If ever a poke this guy can't crack comes out, or would tear him apart even after boosts (in the OU game aegislash is the prime example) it allows a quick switch out to something that can kick it, all while maintaining the boost in attack.
The only thing I've found this thing can't take on is a talonflame (no duh), old swagger set Klefki (banned now anyway, so not an issue) or Sableye (and other similar pokes).
The biggest weakness is if it gets 1HKO (I run a screens setter to remove that issue), or the boost never happening from being burned/poisoned out. Because practically no-one expects a red card, I find it's rare that these happen, and the overall reward (he almost always takes out 2, often 3, occasional full team sweeps) means that it's worth the setup.
I've also tried one that runs stone edge instead of baton pass. Don't like it anywhere near as much, but is great for catching a few pokes off kilter, and have even beaten a talonflame with it. Not as recommended though.
Ever since I saw this little critter he's become my new favourite pokemon (move over aggron, new kid on the block), and while I agree he's a weak OU pokemon (or at least an extremely niche one), I do think he has a right to be there.
Hawlucha@Red card
Adamant
Unburden
Swords Dance
High Jump Kick
Acrobatics
Baton Pass
252hp, 252atk, 4speed
I've run a few sets on him, but perhaps the most effective one relies on no-one expecting him to be run like it. As we all know, hawluchas greatest assets are his +2 speed and attack, combined with a few really hard hitting moves. The red card means that he only needs to be hit once, from any move, and he's off. It catches the opponent completely off guard (if a bad poke gets thrown in, it even gives the opportunity to get another swords off, if you're feeling greedy). His speed is already more than respectable, so he has no use for extra EVs in speed (I put a few in there just to help him out, but they could happily go in either defence), meaning all that extra bulk results in him taking that hit far better than would be expected, often allowing a second hit from a non-super move.
The other trick in this set is Baton pass. If ever a poke this guy can't crack comes out, or would tear him apart even after boosts (in the OU game aegislash is the prime example) it allows a quick switch out to something that can kick it, all while maintaining the boost in attack.
The only thing I've found this thing can't take on is a talonflame (no duh), old swagger set Klefki (banned now anyway, so not an issue) or Sableye (and other similar pokes).
The biggest weakness is if it gets 1HKO (I run a screens setter to remove that issue), or the boost never happening from being burned/poisoned out. Because practically no-one expects a red card, I find it's rare that these happen, and the overall reward (he almost always takes out 2, often 3, occasional full team sweeps) means that it's worth the setup.
I've also tried one that runs stone edge instead of baton pass. Don't like it anywhere near as much, but is great for catching a few pokes off kilter, and have even beaten a talonflame with it. Not as recommended though.
That's actually the exact set I was initially running on Hawlucha, but I found it a little too finicky for my liking. IMO, you're better off with the Power Herb/ Sky Attack combination and just dispensing with Acrobatics. For the most part, you don't need it, as BP Hawlucha is not meant to sweep, and anything that could stop the Baton Pass is OHKOed or 2HKOed by +2 High Jump Kick anyway, and the PH/SA combination provides a useful perk in allowing a possible OHKO on Jolly Talons even at +0.
Nothing is stopping people that want to use Hawlucha from using him in OU.
Yeah, he's countered by alot of stuff but he can cause trouble in the OU department for certain pokemon that synergy with the rest of your team is what comes down to it. BL doesn't mean useless, it just needs a little push via something from your team.
Yeah, he's countered by alot of stuff but he can cause trouble in the OU department for certain pokemon that synergy with the rest of your team is what comes down to it. BL doesn't mean useless, it just needs a little push via something from your team.
To me Hawlucha functions best as a support attacker. Boost up with Swords Dance and hit what you can, then Baton Pass to something bulkier.
Hawlucha @ Focus Sash
[Mold Breaker/Limber][Adamant/Jolly]
252 Atk / 252 Speed / 4 Def
- High Jump Kick
- Acrobatics
- Baton Pass
- Swords Dance
Focus Sash allows him to get the boost passed more easily, letting Hawlucha avoid dying to priority Brave Bird from Talonflame. The unburden boost to me is pointless, since it can't be passed and he will lose it quickly. Mold Breaker allows him to get a few more kills, bypassing Sturdy and Multiscale among others. Limber is an option to stop status and potentially get a free switch on a stray Thunder Wave. Adamant or Jolly depending on your preference for speed or power, since this set misses out on the Unburden boost, a Jolly nature has some more benefit to this set over others.
Hawlucha @ Focus Sash
[Mold Breaker/Limber][Adamant/Jolly]
252 Atk / 252 Speed / 4 Def
- High Jump Kick
- Acrobatics
- Baton Pass
- Swords Dance
Focus Sash allows him to get the boost passed more easily, letting Hawlucha avoid dying to priority Brave Bird from Talonflame. The unburden boost to me is pointless, since it can't be passed and he will lose it quickly. Mold Breaker allows him to get a few more kills, bypassing Sturdy and Multiscale among others. Limber is an option to stop status and potentially get a free switch on a stray Thunder Wave. Adamant or Jolly depending on your preference for speed or power, since this set misses out on the Unburden boost, a Jolly nature has some more benefit to this set over others.
The problem is that at least 50% of all the S and A rank Mons check or counter it; I went looking through the viable Pokemon awhile back and stopped before I hit B because I had found so many and got bored.
Scolipede does it better while also giving a Speed boost and/or Defense Boost.
As a more dedicated passer, absolutely.
But I think Hawlucha gets some really unique coverage out of Stab Fighting/Flying, and can break through a lot of walls. Passing with him is more of a bonus, and a way to keep momentum in your favor.
Plus Scolipede is too predictable. Hawlucha might be used as a sweeper and you think it's a B-Passer, or vice versa
What walls are you talking about? Unless you are one-shotting Chansey with an unboosted High Jump Kick, you're going to get T-Waved.
Scolipede can actually clean late game with Life Orb set which doubles as a fun way to fuck over Talonflame if it switches into you. Also, Hawlucha is easily one of the least threatening sweepers in the tier (don't make me find that massive list of checks).
It can't
252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 488-576 (69.3 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Looks like I need to play on PS! A little more. I didn't knew Scolipede could do that.
Oh wow it can't even kill something with base 5 defense even with a super effective move, this must totally mean it is good! Seriously Hawlucha isn't a good Pokemon at all since it just isn't strong enough.
With full defensive investment Chansey is bulkier then Max HP/Max Def Swampert, which is pretty good, but still I agree that Chansey surviving 130 base power STAB move is really sad and unimpressive feat from Hawlucha.
When is this dropping to UU?
Never probably. It is UU by usage, but it is considered by many the most broken Pokémon that ever met the tier(alongside probably Diggersby, Heracronite and Alakazite) and thus very unlikely to fly away from BL.
- Status