Gen V Initial NU Metagame Thread

[King Serperior]

I have found that Rotom is very annoying.

Also, Derpfisk is pretty dang good as a bulky attacker :)

Baskulin is a good revenge killer with a STAB adaptability Aqua Jet.

Your thoughts?

 

[tennisace]

I always find that Basculin either: can't take a hit when it needs the power, and can't outspeed what its supposed to without Aqua Jet. If I want strong priority I'm going with Absol.

Stunfisk seems interesting on paper but it can't take hits well enough from what I've seen, and electric/ground is worse typing than you'd think.

 

[Molk]

as the writer of the stunfisk analysis, i will say that stunny fares pretty well with all the pokemon such as braviary and dodrio and also klinklang (but its moving up) ive used in the top of RU and dabbled with it in NU and it takes hits pretty well. sure its typing isnt the best but i used it with two other members to make a core, stunny isnt bad, more people should use it.

 

[Axa]

Knowing nothing about NU, I must ask. How does trick room fare down there? A defensive regenerator TR Slowking could run support while you have pokemon such as CB Rampardos and Druddigon destroying things.

TR is a different ballgame in NU because there's definitely a heavier shift towards slow bulky sweepers. You still have fast stuff like Braviary, Swellow, and I guess things like Miltank, but you also have a lot of middle-ground/slow things running around like Torterra and Armaldo. Because of this, it can be tricky running minimum speed for everything otherwise things like Torterra can run all over you if you don't have TR up (and Wood Hammer hits Slowking for a ton). You also still have fast hazards like Scolipede and Roselia arround, and Prankster Volbeat also exists. Things are bulkier down here, so it can be harder to shut things down before you have to reset TR.

What's fast in NU can be deadly if you haven't time to set-up, though. Jynx, Pinsir and Sawk are all menaces and all cause trouble in one way or another to a TR team.

The other problem is that you don't have that many viable TRers. Slowking and Duosion definitely, and maybe Musharna and Audino.

The upside is that you have a lot of things to play with. Like you said, there's Rampardos and Druddigion, as well as Ursaring, Gigalith, Armaldo, Carrracosta, Sunflora, Gurdurr and even Weeepinbell. On the tankish side you have Tangela, Parasect, Amonguss and Torkoal (who's the fastest thing under TR barring stupid stuff like Cascoon). Stuff that wouldn't be viable in the upper tiers have a new lease of life down here. One should watch for physical walls since a lot of TRers are physically inclined except Slowking and Sunflora.

 

[jake]

Just a mention: Exeggutor is probably the best TR user aside from Slowking.

 

[Molk]

TR is a different ballgame in NU because there's definitely a heavier shift towards slow bulky sweepers. You still have fast stuff like Braviary, Swellow, and I guess things like Miltank, but you also have a lot of middle-ground/slow things running around like Torterra and Armaldo. Because of this, it can be tricky running minimum speed for everything otherwise things like Torterra can run all over you if you don't have TR up (and Wood Hammer hits Slowking for a ton). You also still have fast hazards like Scolipede and Roselia arround, and Prankster Volbeat also exists. Things are bulkier down here, so it can be harder to shut things down before you have to reset TR.

What's fast in NU can be deadly if you haven't time to set-up, though. Jynx, Pinsir and Sawk are all menaces and all cause trouble in one way or another to a TR team.

The other problem is that you don't have that many viable TRers. Slowking and Duosion definitely, and maybe Musharna and Audino.

The upside is that you have a lot of things to play with. Like you said, there's Rampardos and Druddigion, as well as Ursaring, Gigalith, Armaldo, Carrracosta, Sunflora, Gurdurr and even Weeepinbell. On the tankish side you have Tangela, Parasect, Amonguss and Torkoal (who's the fastest thing under TR barring stupid stuff like Cascoon). Stuff that wouldn't be viable in the upper tiers have a new lease of life down here. One should watch for physical walls since a lot of TRers are physically inclined except Slowking and Sunflora.

i am hard pressed to find an exeggutor counter down here, and its able to set up trick room, eggy seems very interesting, i wonder if it will be BL3 or something. cause nothing can really switch in on it. and the ablility to set up TR makes it VERY SCARY, in particular the harvest set just makes me say

BRAKE STUPID TREE! lol

 

[StevenJones]

Scarf Beedrill is a pretty nice counter to Exeggutor, and makes for a formidable scout with U-Turn. That is, barring Trick Room. Thankfully, I haven't run into a TR-Eggy team as of yet.

 

[StevenJones]

as the writer of the stunfisk analysis, i will say that stunny fares pretty well with all the pokemon such as braviary and dodrio and also klinklang (but its moving up) ive used in the top of RU and dabbled with it in NU and it takes hits pretty well. sure its typing isnt the best but i used it with two other members to make a core, stunny isnt bad, more people should use it.

Oh, is Kling Klang moving up? Awesome. Every NU team seems to be carrying that guy....

 

[Axa]

Scarf Beedrill is a pretty nice counter to Exeggutor, and makes for a formidable scout with U-Turn. That is, barring Trick Room. Thankfully, I haven't run into a TR-Eggy team as of yet.

See, the problem with that is that it's Beedrill, which is pretty much outclassed by Scolipede.

You might as well use Kricketune, who at least has Sing/Taunt/Perish Song.

 

[breh]

i am hard pressed to find an exeggutor counter down here, and its able to set up trick room, eggy seems very interesting, i wonder if it will be BL3 or something. cause nothing can really switch in on it. and the ablility to set up TR makes it VERY SCARY, in particular the harvest set just makes me say

BRAKE STUPID TREE! lol

usually, it's not too difficult to bait into psychic or sleep powder. getting it to pull off the latter means that you can switch in dark types (especially those with sucker punch) on Psychic. Leaf Storm is a greater issue, though. that it (conveniently) counters itself helps make it a lot easier to work with, lol.

 

[Molk]

and scolipede is Koed by psychic, so even that isnt a check.

 

[breh]

it's a check if it comes in on anything that's not psychic or sleep powder... Eggy can't outspeed it at all, I think, without sunny day. scolipede is also great because it puts offensive pressure on whatever team is using eggy. bringing in a bug resist (or poke with strong defense) means letting it set up hazards; bringing in your spinner means losing quite a bit of health (especially if rocks are up), enough taht you may be in KO range from rock slide/EQ/whatever it is scolipede runs.

(also lol scarf beedrill)

EDIT: yes forgot TR >_<

like I said though, I particularly enjoy using Cacturne to get rid of it.

 

[Molk]

it's a check if it comes in on anything that's not psychic or sleep powder... Eggy can't outspeed it at all, I think, without sunny day. scolipede is also great because it puts offensive pressure on whatever team is using eggy. bringing in a bug resist (or poke with strong defense) means letting it set up hazards; bringing in your spinner means losing quite a bit of health (especially if rocks are up), enough taht you may be in KO range from rock slide/EQ/whatever it is scolipede runs.

(also lol scarf beedrill)

im pretty sure that HP fire Koes scolipede also, and if eggy decides to set up trick room, scolipede is as good as done. exeggutor is really good!

 

[Axa]

If Exeggutor isn't carrying an offensive item like LO, 252/252 Mr. Mime at full health can always survive two hits from Eggy barring crits, and do 90.3% - 106.7% using Signal Beam.

It's pretty shaky, but there you go.

 

[Molk]

exeggutor LO less leaf storm vs mr mime. (54.93% - 64.79%)

at -2 (27.46% - 32.75%)

82.39-97.54 factoring two hits in

the problem is almost all exeggutor carry specs or life orb. (unless running harvest Subseed)

im just bringing up discussion cause eggy hits so hard

 

[Axa]

Specs loses to Mr. Mime since the latter outspeeds it, unless Mr. Mime gets a low daamge roll, and it doesn't OHKO with Leaf Storm (it has a chance with SR up).

As for LO... yeah, it all depends on TR or the damage roll.

Like I said, Mr. Mime is extremely shaky, but it's the best with the exception of Mantine, who 2HKOs with Signal Beam, and Cacturne, who loses to HP Fire.

 

[Molk]

i dont get why you would be using siganl beam on a Mr. Mime outside of countering eggy though, so why would anyone use it? it has a low base power, and not the best coverage along with psychic

 

[jake]

More like Altaria? SpD Altaria takes Specs Leaf Storms pretty easily, as well as HP Fire that everyone seems to think it should run. It really only fears Psyshock and HP Ice, of which HP Ice is really only for Altaria. Druddigon in general works okay too - you resist Leaf Storm and can live a Psychic and retaliate with Outrage, Sucker Punch, whatever. Absol can come in on a Psychic-type move or on a revenge kill and do a shitton with its Sucker Punch. I haven't calced yet and I'm too lazy to go do it but SpD Flareon is worth testing. Lickilicky can eat a Leaf Storm and Wish/Protect its way back to full health. Has Sap Sipper been released on Miltank yet? That could work as a solid check, too.

Most of the time, though, I've dealt with Exeggutor through simple things like predicting it coming in on Rhydon and clicking Megahorn. Without boosting its speed through Chlorophyll/TR it's also completely revenge-able by the most common revengers of the tier: Swellow, Braviary, etc.

 

[tennisace]

So some misconceptions:

Specs Exeggutor is the best set, period. It is too slow to take advantage of the ability to switch moves, especially when its strongest move drops its SpA, forcing it to switch regardless. Harvest is a gimmick, I don't care what you say. It is a 50/50 coin flip each turn, unless you specifically set up sun, in which case why are you not using Shiftry and Magmortar. Trick Room is whatever but a well built team will beat TR in general.

There are very few things that can take a Specs Leaf Storm. Most of the things that take Specs Leaf Storm cannot take a Psychic (Weezing, Muk, Scolipede, Vileplume are all KO'd by Psychic easily). Conversely, the things that can take Psychic cannot take a Specs Leaf Storm (Mesprit, other bulky Psychics, etc). All the steels are 2hko'd by Specs Leaf Storm, assuming standard spreads. Special Defensive Altaria (read: 252 hp 252 spd calm/careful) can beat Exeggutor. Defensive Murkrow can beat it with priority Roost and a fairly powerful Brave Bird. That's about "it" that check or counter.

HOWEVER: Exeggutor is weak to all forms of entry hazards. So while yes, every time it switches in, it's getting a hit and/or a ko, it's losing quite a bit of HP with having to sponge the attack and entry hazards. Specs Eggy is hit and run at its finest, but it can only switch in 3-4 times tops. In addition, Eggy has abysmal speed. There are many Pokemon that can outspeed and KO, namely Pinsir, Scolipede, Braviary, Murkrow, Swellow, Cryogonal, Glaceon, Magmortar, Absol, and many many more.

So yes, Exeggutor is an extremely good Pokemon right now. However I still maintain that there is no one force in the metagame too powerful right now. NU is balanced now. There's probably going to be a very large shift next month, but we'll cross that bridge later. For now, can we PLEASE stop bitching about what we think is overpowered and just try new fun sets/concepts? There is a ton to be explored here.

 

[Molk]

So some misconceptions:

Specs Exeggutor is the best set, period. It is too slow to take advantage of the ability to switch moves, especially when its strongest move drops its SpA, forcing it to switch regardless. Harvest is a gimmick, I don't care what you say. It is a 50/50 coin flip each turn, unless you specifically set up sun, in which case why are you not using Shiftry and Magmortar. Trick Room is whatever but a well built team will beat TR in general.

There are very few things that can take a Specs Leaf Storm. Most of the things that take Specs Leaf Storm cannot take a Psychic (Weezing, Muk, Scolipede, Vileplume are all KO'd by Psychic easily). Conversely, the things that can take Psychic cannot take a Specs Leaf Storm (Mesprit, other bulky Psychics, etc). All the steels are 2hko'd by Specs Leaf Storm, assuming standard spreads. Special Defensive Altaria (read: 252 hp 252 spd calm/careful) can beat Exeggutor. Defensive Murkrow can beat it with priority Roost and a fairly powerful Brave Bird. That's about "it" that check or counter.

HOWEVER: Exeggutor is weak to all forms of entry hazards. So while yes, every time it switches in, it's getting a hit and/or a ko, it's losing quite a bit of HP with having to sponge the attack and entry hazards. Specs Eggy is hit and run at its finest, but it can only switch in 3-4 times tops. In addition, Eggy has abysmal speed. There are many Pokemon that can outspeed and KO, namely Pinsir, Scolipede, Braviary, Murkrow, Swellow, Cryogonal, Glaceon, Magmortar, Absol, and many many more.

So yes, Exeggutor is an extremely good Pokemon right now. However I still maintain that there is no one force in the metagame too powerful right now. NU is balanced now. There's probably going to be a very large shift next month, but we'll cross that bridge later. For now, can we PLEASE stop bitching about what we think is overpowered and just try new fun sets/concepts? There is a ton to be explored here.

agreed, eggy is really good, but i dont think much is broken.

specs is pretty cool tho. im going to try him out (im writing the analysis :D)

idk, from what ive seen, harvest is far from a gimmick, im trying it myself.

 

[a fairy]

Harvest doesn't activate when you need it, unless you're running Sunny Day.

 

[jake]

Harvest doesn't activate when you need it, unless you're running Sunny Day.

...and in that case, Chlorophyll would be far, far better.

 

[Furosuto]

I have been trying Rock polish Rampardos and it has worked to some extent. With a beastly base attack well over 160, he can easily dominate pretty much anything with a good enough move pool to do some damage. The only things he has to look out for a priority (mach punch & bullet punch), and status moves.

 

[Son_of_Shadoo]

Good luck coming in to set up though.

 

[King Serperior]

How is Articuno here?

Props: Good stats, Reliable recovery, great offensive typing, and and good coverage.

Slops: Bad defensive typing and a SR weakness.

I have yet to see SR in any of my battles in this tier.

What do you guys and gals think??