Electivire's effect on the use of (other) Electric Pokemon

[Little Green Yoda]

The last Electivire topic was made back in February and I want to focus more on its impact on the rest of the metagame.

The thing pretty much shuts down every other Electric type in the game with Motor Drive. Against a 0 HP EV, 0 SD EV, neutral nature Electivire, Hidden Power from Zapdos is at best a 3HKO and probably a 4HKO from a Timid Raikou.

The only saving grace is that Electivire typically has no way to regain lost HP barring Wish support, since most sets run CB or Life Orb. Being forced to nibble away at Electivire seems risky unless you have a 100% Electivire counter (Cresselia?). And, granted, not every team is going to pack Electivire, but from what I hear, the Gyarados + Electivire combo seems quite popular.

Is the Electric type the Fire type of last generation? Electric attacks will always be around but will the Electric Pokemon be few and far in between?

At least Jolt and Zapdos can provide support with BP, Sub, Agility, etc. Raikou seems destined for BL status.

Opinions?

 

[Arseus]

Hmm well I agree with you for the most part I guess. Zapdos was hurt with the addition of Stealth Rock though, so I'm not sure if it will see any more use than the aformetioned Raikou (Though it's hard to see either in BL I'd say, but yeah Raikou would go first), and well Jolt never saw too much use in the first place IIRC, so there's little if any reason for this to change in advance. Part of the problem with Electric Pokémon I think is pretty much their only good attacks are the Electric ones, leaving them with HP and 2 other moves. Sure, Zappy can BP and such, and Manectric gets Flamethrower (Lol?) but these cases are pretty rare.

 

[Hipmonlee]

Well, Zapdos is hurt a great deal because it is damn hard to get one with a useable hidden power ingame.. I think that might be one reason behind the lack of electrics, I mean I am trying to get Jolteons and Magnezones at the moment, I have been breeding for about a week and got my first HP Grass Magnemite yesterday..

I think the other thing severly hurting Electrics is the popularity and sheer scariness of Rhyperior and Garchomp.. They can only carry a HP that counters one of the two, and they will be giving a lot of switches to the other should it ever figure out what it is holding.

But Zapdos, Jolteon, Magnezone and to a lesser extent Raikou are just damn good pokemon.. They will find their way into the metagame..

Also consider a Raikou doing 25% to Electivire on a switch in. SS buffets it taking it to 69% and it attacks so life orb takes it down to 59%. Next time Raikou switches in it just needs to set up a sub and Electivire is toast.

Have a nice day.

 

[Tinnacious]

One of the few things that hurts Electrics is their Movepool. I mean, seriously, wow, without Hidden Powers, a shitload of Electrics would move down a tier.

 

[-FL-]

The thing is that Electivire has the best offensive movepool for an Electric pokémon. Excellent Atk stat and Ok SpAtk stat, capable of outspeed Aerodactyl with 152 EVs with a neutral Spd Nature and MD, and even CSCross with a little more EVs and with Motor Drive in effect. If one Electric pokemon deserves to be in OU tier, Electivire'll be my choice.

 

[Pyr0]

Indeed it shifts the role of Electric Pokemon.

But appart from the obvius reasons, It also gives blissey another reason why to avoid using Thunderwave, Blissey is the last thing that wants to set up an Electrivire.

And that makes Special Sweepers rise up a bit more.
Forcing Blissey to choose one of the attacks that could potentialy be bad for her.

In conclusion, Electrivire is an Elec counter and a medium Blissey nerf.

 

[Deck Knight]

Indeed it shifts the role of Electric Pokemon.

But appart from the obvius reasons, It also gives blissey another reason why to avoid using Thunderwave, Blissey is the last thing that wants to set up an Electrivire.

And that makes Special Sweepers rise up a bit more.
Forcing Blissey to choose one of the attacks that could potentialy be bad for her.

In conclusion, Electrivire is an Elec counter and a medium Blissey nerf.

And then Blissey decides to run Counter over Ice Beam or Seismic Toss (or even Aroma), sending a smug Electivire back to hell. All Blissey needs to special wall is Softboiled. Then it suffers from 3-Moveslot syndrome. Softboiled/IBeam/TWave/Counter. I used Counterbliss a few times in Advance, and let me tell you no physical attacker likes getting smacked in the face with a retaliatory KO when they think Blissey is going to switch out.

Counterbliss > Electivire. Also smacks CBMence and CB Gabby around. Although, as always, never switch Blissey in to anything you have reason to believe is a CBer. And keep it the hell away from Heracross and Infernape.

As to the role of electric pokemon, that hasn't changed just because Electivire showed up. Electivire might shut down other electrics, but little else likes eating STAB Thunderbolts.

 

[Glen ^^]

I see Jolteon and Lanturn a lot more "Electric counters" than Electvire. Jolteon can come in, restore its HP, set up a Substitute or Agility, then pass to a real counter. Lanturn can fire back with STABed Surfs, or just annoy with Thunder Wave and Confuse Ray.
Electvire gets a speed boost... ok... then what? His ass will be kicked by Rhyperior or Metagross, anyway.

Raikou never was popular, it's too hard to get one with a good nature and OK IVs.

 

[Fafnir]

I can see different pokes filling out niche rolls. For example, I can see Raikou having a strong role in my Rain Dance team. It's a roll that Electivire and Zapdos can't fill. Likewise, Zapdos has something that Electivire and Raikou can't offer, like BP.
Although other electrics may lose some ground(no pun intended) to Vire, I don't think this'll be the end of days for them. Each of the top tier electrics vary enough from each other that they are all still viable in one way or another.

 

[RaikouLover]

Electivire has nothing on Raikou--- the godliest of all special sweeping electrics (OK maybe Zap is close). OK so he get's motor drive, but most Raikou's sub and calm mind up first anyway, Jolteon and Zapdos ready their batons. I havent trained Electivire yet but I already don't like him. He's ugly, painfully overused, his special stat is low compared to other electrics.. and I'm gonna earthquake him into oblivion the next time I see him

 

[Lou Cypher]

Electivire gives me a reason to lol at people with doublepowdering Butterfree with a Focus Sash.

 

[Lou Cypher]

I mean that I'll be the one running it. Saves me the trouble of running into Electivire's T-Wave immunity while still spreading paralysis.

 

[X-Act]

Jolteon should still see a lot of usage. Volt Absorb is much like Motor Drive in that it makes Jolteon immune to Electric Attacks, and Jolteon doesn't need the speed boost anyway. Volt Absorb now also absorbs Thunder Wave, which is very sweet indeed. This makes Jolteon combo with Gyarados in much the same way as Electivire does, and Baton Passing a quick Substitute could prove to be a very important strategy.

Raikou, in my opinion, is not destined to BL at all. Many things are still threatened by it. The fact that people are not using it means that people are not recognising its potential, or maybe people want to try new things.

 

[CLegacyM]

If we're talking about wifi, Zapdos doesn't have BP.

 

[Dan Dan]

Zapdos can get Baton Pass on wifi, it just needs to be one from XD.

 

[Mekkah]

Get Baton Pass Zapdos from XD, Pal Park it to DP and put it on your WiFi team. What's the issue?

Electrivire is awesome, but not much more than a choice. Other Electrics have other things going for them. Zapdos has Feather Rest and U-Turn to toy with, for example.

I see Jolteon and Lanturn a lot more "Electric counters" than Electvire. Jolteon can come in, restore its HP, set up a Substitute or Agility, then pass to a real counter. Lanturn can fire back with STABed Surfs, or just annoy with Thunder Wave and Confuse Ray.
Electvire gets a speed boost... ok... then what? His ass will be kicked by Rhyperior or Metagross, anyway.

So Jolteon setting up something and Baton Passing is totally superior to a free turn for Electrivire to hurt whatever comes in (since it tends to do that)? That's a little arguable. But no way Lanturn is more productive than Electrivire in here. Using your logic, "Lanturn gets his ass kicked by Garchomp or Snorlax or Blissey or Flygon or Swampert" anyway.

Metagross isn't really made to kick Electrivire's butt. Rhyperior is if Electrivire doesn't have Hidden Power Grass. Electrivire does a whole lot more to these "counters" than Lanturn can.

 

[megamanac]

Unless you can predict tbolts or twaves really well, a dugtrio is just going to come in and OHKO electivire.

 

[Stallion]

Unless you can predict tbolts or twaves really well, a dugtrio is just going to come in and OHKO electivire.

By your logic, if everything that Dugtrio could come in and potentially OHKO sucked, then Heracross would never see any use, and neither would Celebi in ADV.

 

[Mekkah]

Unless you can predict tbolts or twaves really well, a dugtrio is just going to come in and OHKO electivire.

Unless you predict non-attacking moves or switches really well Dugtrio cannot even come in. Unless you use Agility on your Metagross it will always die to Dugtrio. Unless you use Jolly max Speed Dragon Dance on Tyranitar or predict Substitute/Focus Punch really well it will always be OHKOed by Dugtrio. Such flawed logic everywhere.

I think Electrivire is around to stay. You can't deny its coolness. However, if I were to build a team around, say, Marowak, I would sooner turn to Zapdos/Jolteon's Baton Pass abilities than use Electrivire. It's a purpose-based thing. I'd definitely use Electrivire over Raikou for my Electric sweeping needs though. Better movepool, more suitable for killing its counters, better trait, and gives more coverage (I think being able to take all kinds of Electric attacks is better than Raikou's limited potential at coming in on Milotic and Suicune).

 

[sarunibi]

Mekkah is right. What electric you choose depends on what purpose you need. Electivire seems to be best at mixed sweeping. Jolteon and Zapdos baton passing. Magnezone can take some hits due to it's typing and defenses. Raikou is a special attacker. Raichu can nasty plot, and still has some good physical and support moves as well.

Electivire is great, but it doesn't do better what some other electrics do better. Each electric has their own niche.

But Electivire is definitely in my mind seeing that I just caught an Elekid with Electribooster yesterday...

 

[StrikeJP]

I've yet to run into a Electivire on Wifi. I just know it's going to ruin my team one of these days when I Thunderbolt it.

However, I wouldn't say the rest of the electrics are useless now. I'm loving Zapdos for my electric needs. It's a great Gyarados, Heracross, Staraptor, etc. counter rolled up in one.

 

[Mekkah]

Most of what you say make sense, but a great Gyarados counter is something I wouldn't call Zapdos anymore after Advance. A damage calculation for a best case scenario:

498 Attack Gyarados Waterfall (332 Attack with one Dragon Dance) on 384/260 HP/Defense Zapdos (very, very defensive investment)
min - 43%
avg - 47%
max - 50%

Same situation, but with Ice Fang:
min - 70%
avg - 76%
max - 82%

That kinda hurts poor Zapdos. It's better than nothing, but definitely not what it used to be.

 

[-FL-]

Another counter Gyarados eliminates this gen =/... that'll cause Gyarados to be used much more (yeah, more), which means Electivire/Gyarados combinations will be, arguably, more popular.

 

[leafgreen386]

Interestingly enough, any team that has electivire on it, is opening themselves up to be killed by another electivire. So... in a sense, electivire sort of limits itself. I foresee some max speed electivire being used for this very purpose.

 

[Glen ^^]

So Jolteon setting up something and Baton Passing is totally superior to a free turn for Electrivire to hurt whatever comes in (since it tends to do that)? That's a little arguable. But no way Lanturn is more productive than Electrivire in here. Using your logic, "Lanturn gets his ass kicked by Garchomp or Snorlax or Blissey or Flygon or Swampert" anyway.

Metagross isn't really made to kick Electrivire's butt. Rhyperior is if Electrivire doesn't have Hidden Power Grass. Electrivire does a whole lot more to these "counters" than Lanturn can.

A wrong prediction with Electivire (a Ice Punch on a Metagross switching in, for example, the exact thing that happened with me) and he`ll need to run.
Jolteon can BP his Subs to, let`s say, Dugtrio, who`ll enjoy the support.
Lanturn surely is a lot less productive than Jolteon, but with the same prediction that Electivire needs, he`ll take out those Garchomps, Rhyperiors and such.

I just think that`s better to set up a real threat, than just cause some damage (a OHKO or a not very effective, depends on the prediction). And also there`s the risk of setting up another Volt Absorb/Motor Drive Poke, lol.