Effective Cores in the Doubles metagame

[Swamp-Rocket]

Eh, I'm not too keen about that core, Swamp-Rocket. I am not a big fan of having two mons that are crippled by Rotom-W and Latios. Abomasnow's Blizzard spam also looks problematic, too. Trevenant resists all of their move and can burn them. I'd at least run Stone Edge or Return / Double-Edge > Earthquake on Gyarados to be able to hit the former three for good damage after a Dragon Dance boost. Maybe consider Knock Off > Superpower to handle Trevenant, Latios (on the switch), and to dent Cresselia?

That sounds like a good idea and I'll try that out. Admittedly I would still have some problems with Rotom-W, but dealing with Latios and with Rotom at all would probably be worth dropping EQ on Gyarados. I may try Knock Off but I find Superpower important for Kangaskhan switch-ins and Abomasnow, and I haven't seen as many Trevenants as I thought I would have. Thanks for that!

 

[roxanne]

Really effective/funny strategy I just adopted since it was used on me... soak. Original credit goes to NewToThisStuff ^^

Basically, in a doubles match you set up a seaking like so;

Seaking Choice Scarfed
Trait: Lightningrod
252+Spe/252HP/4SpD
Jolly Nature
- Soak
- Megahorn
- Waterfall
- Ice Beam

Pair him up with thundurus-therian like so;

Thundurus-T Focus sash
Trait: Volt Absorb
252+Spe/252SpA/4HP
Timid Nature
- Discharge
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Wave

Note, only moves that really matter are discharge and soak, rest are interchangable.

Basically, just get seaking to soak everything before Thundurus gives it a discharge. Caught the teams I found offguard and ripped them apart. Helps even more if you get paralysis onto the enemies first. I felt so evil for trying it. Still crazy funny.

Sorry if my formatting and stuff is off, its my first real post on here ;-;

 

[ModelT]

Really effective/funny strategy I just adopted since it was used on me... soak. Original credit goes to NewToThisStuff ^^

Basically, in a doubles match you set up a seaking like so;

Seaking Choice Scarfed
Trait: Lightningrod
252+Spe/252HP/4SpD
Jolly Nature
- Soak
- Megahorn
- Waterfall
- Ice Beam

Pair him up with thundurus-therian like so;

Thundurus-T Focus sash
Trait: Volt Absorb
252+Spe/252SpA/4HP
Timid Nature
- Discharge
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Wave

Note, only moves that really matter are discharge and soak, rest are interchangable.

Basically, just get seaking to soak everything before Thundurus gives it a discharge. Caught the teams I found offguard and ripped them apart. Helps even more if you get paralysis onto the enemies first. I felt so evil for trying it. Still crazy funny.

Sorry if my formatting and stuff is off, its my first real post on here ;-;

If you check my previous post about by HelioTurn, this and that would combo very well together. Seaking can turn anything into a water move, and Heliolisk can turn anything into an electric move, with all four mons being immune/resistant to eachothers AoE moves. It might not make a bad team since Seaking brings some Physical moves to the table so you're not entirely walled by special defenders.

 

[Laga]

Alright can we stay away from gimmicks please? From now on please post cores of Pokemon that complement each other's weaknesses offensively or defensive in general, not a gimmick combo that 6-0ed some dude on the ladder =/

heliolisk + lanturn / seaking + thundy-t are very gimmicky and should honestly not be used if we want a competitive Doubles ladder.

 

[youngjake93]

Alright can we stay away from gimmicks please? From now on please post cores of Pokemon that complement each other's weaknesses offensively or defensive in general, not a gimmick combo that 6-0ed some dude on the ladder =/

heliolisk + lanturn / seaking + thundy-t are very gimmicky and should honestly not be used if we want a competitive Doubles ladder.

Ok

Charizard-Y+Landorus-T
Intimidated+neutral Unboosted Rock Slides are basically shrugged off by Landog. Drought weakens water attacks aimed at either of them. 78/78/115 bulk is enough to tank neutral ice attacks. CharY is conveniently immune to Landog's EQ. But most importantly, Landog can get rid of Chandelure, Heatran, Houndoom, Tyranitar, Excadrill and Terrakion for CharY while Ice and Grass types looking to screw up Landog would be foolish to switch into Heat Wave spam.

Also, why does everyone post set details? Most fundamentally sound cores aren't restricted to certain sets, but I guess giving really good suggestions isn't a bad thing.

 

[ModelT]

The problem with "effective cores in doubles" is that Gimmicks work so much better in doubles PWNE EDIT THIS SENTENCE GAVE ME CANCER, and the problems you run into in doubles are so variable and difficult to predict that the very nature of doubles adds a larger element of luck. Priority becomes a big thing, Multitarget moves are a thing, comboes with two mons in play are a thing, and it's easier to abuse all sorts of effects that are just secondary benefits in singles if they work.

With that being said, the three things a core should do is 1) Compliment each other. 2) Be prepared to deal with loads of Gimmicks. 3) Be prepared to deal with core elements (such as protect, feign, Rage Powder, etc).

 

[Laga]

Alright I am going to be getting straight to the point here...

You are badly mistaken.

I know you may feel that gimmicks work well in Doubles considering the fact that most ladder players are terrible, but this just is not the case. Doubles is a lot more focused around proper switching and correct prediction than pulling off a gimmick successfully when you are playing high-level player against high-level player and we should strive towards have more matches that are like this. Gimmicks are not the way.

So, as I said, please do not post gimmicks; this is a thread for cores, not gimmick sweep duos that are weak to 99% of competitive team strategies of Doubles...

 

[D-Quag]

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Tailwind
- Scald
- Snarl
- Protect

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Yache Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- U-turn / Knock off?
- Protect

This is a defensive core centered around Suicune's support potential. The key is setting up tailwind for Landorus-T to have room to maneuver or u-turn out of any trouble. Scald and snarl make sure that Suicune isn't just sitting around as dead weight on the field and can instead try to disable opponents. Landorus' set is a bulky yache set so that it can tank a surprise ice attack and help it stay on the field wrecking stuff.
A lot of the cores on this thread right now are either "Smash stuff" or "Smash stuff with one thing and create free turns with the other". While both types work, and are generally my preferred playstyle for doubles, defensive synergy is important too.

 

[Nollan]

Alright now that my SPL match is over, I'd like to present the core I built around (and really enjoyed playing):

Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 184 Spd / 252 Atk / 72 HP
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam / Return
- Drain Punch / Low Kick
- Ice Punch
- Protect

Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 244 HP / 100 Def / 56 Spd / 108 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Tailwind
- Follow Me
- Helping Hand / Roost / Protect

One of the biggest mistakes I see players make in Doubles is the assumption Kangashkan-Mega is running the typical Return / Sucker Punch / PuP / Fake Out. Double-Edge, Hammer Arm, and even Fire Blast + Ice Beam (which admittedly caught me by surprise on the Battle Spot ladder) are all being used successfully because of this common assumption. The goal this core aims to achieve is to turn Kangashkan from the typical Fake Out attacker role it plays to a frightening Tailwind sweeper that packs a pretty big punch (and for me at least came with extra surprise value). Body Slam is an option I've enjoyed recently as it has a high chance to paralyze the opposition at the cost of some power, though Return is perfectly fine. Drain Punch helps keep Kangashkan standing, though Low Kick is nice since it gets the OHKO on Heatran. Ice Punch easily OHKOs Landorus-T after Intimidate and along with the aforementioned Fighting-type move gives Kangashkan very nice super-effective coverage against a large portion of the metagame. Protect is used to guard against double attacks and stall a turn while Tailwind goes up. EVs are simple; they give me enough speed to move before Adamant Landorus-T after mega-evolving with remaining EVs in HP for some extra bulk (which is conveniently just enough to always survive a Landorus-T Superpower).

The Togekiss is simple and standard, which is all the support Kangashkan really needs. Follow Me, Tailwind, and Helping Hand give Kangashkan a lot of options to work with. The HP is lined up to be divisible by 4 which allows Sitrus to heal the most possible and the Speed allows Togekiss to move before 4 Spe Rotom-W. The Defense investment means Togekiss always survives a Metagross Meteor Mash and remaining EVs are poured into SpD.

Overall it applies a lot of offensive pressure and worked out really well, so I'd recommend people try it out.

 

[Expulso]

subkanga + hitmontop lead

lol have fun double protect opposing leads, kanga will wreck you all behind its sub


(this is just theorymon btw, would this actually work?)

audio edit: potentially, although next time please provide actual sets and test your cores before you post them or your post will be deleted.

 

[Speedholes]

Let's get some more defensive cores up in here:

Rotom-H @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 116 SpA / 140 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Overheat
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect

Gastrodon @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald / Muddy Water
- Earth Power / Recover
- Icy Wind / Ice Beam
- Protect

The main point of these two is to provide strong checks to both Sun and Rain, while still having excellent defensive synergy with each other. Gastrodon can deal with most Rock Slide-packing mons which are the only thing that really threaten Rotom while they are both on the field. At the same time, Rotom-H with Safety Goggles is one of the best answers to Grass-Types in the tier. This EV spread 2HKOs standard Amoonguss with Overheat through Sitrus and the SpA drop. They also both solidly check the top Fire-Types CharY, Tran and Talonflame. This core works particularly well in Sand since it's so good at dealing with other weathers, both of them appreciate the extra chip damage and are immune to it, and TTar can help check stuff like Latios and Cresselia who can be troublesome.

These two can struggle against Pokemon with very powerful neutral hits such as Mega Kangaskhan and LO Latios, and they aren't threatening or disruptive enough to stop bulky supporters like Cresselia from grabbing free turns. They are still solid defensive partners for teammates who can take them on, however.

Suggestions for Gastrodon's EVs would be nice, I got no idea.

 

[Pocket]

Interesting pair, Speedholes! I particularly dig that Safety Goggles Rotom-H ;d. However, keep in mind that Ludicolo is a common Rain sweeper that can blast past Gastrodon with ease. It's still nice that Gastrodon's Storm Drain redirects Ludicolo's Hydro Pump to keep Rotom-H safe, but the haunted oven can't do much in return.

As for Gastrodon's EVs, you probably want to go fully defensive to have it serve the purpose of checking powerful non-Ludicolo rain threats. I suggest 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD, Calm Nature. This lets Gastrodon survive two LO Draco Meteors from Kingdra at max health (the second one at -2). You probably want to fit Recover over Earth Power to have Gastrodon actually last long in a match to absorb hits. Maybe use Scald or Ice Beam over Muddy Water or Icy Wind so that you're not totally walled by Wide Guard ;d

 

[Speedholes]

Thanks Pocket, I've made the change to Gastrodon's EVs and moves. And you're right about Ludicolo being a problem, it's hard to find anything that can stand up to that monster under rain. Abomasnow can actually be a good partner instead of TTar in that regard, or you could run a Rindo Berry on Gastrodon and try to double attack it but that is quite risky now that Assault Vest Ludicolo is a thing.

 

[BlankZero]

Thanks Pocket, I've made the change to Gastrodon's EVs and moves. And you're right about Ludicolo being a problem, it's hard to find anything that can stand up to that monster under rain. Abomasnow can actually be a good partner instead of TTar in that regard, or you could run a Rindo Berry on Gastrodon and try to double attack it but that is quite risky now that Assault Vest Ludicolo is a thing.

You could even run Stockpile Gastrodon as a part of that core, seeing as the 2 synergies so well.

 

[The Leprechaun]

Jirachi @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 240 SDef / 252 HP / 16 Spd
Careful Nature
- Follow Me
- Thunder Wave
- Iron Head
- Protect

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Protect

• Belly Jet azumarill is the dopest dope
• Jirachi redirects grass, poison, and electric moves. Speed EVs are enough to beat max speed adamant bisharp (and try to flinch it). Anything slower than/threatens azumarill gets paraflinched.
• Pikablu kills shit that carry heat wave or earthquake, i.e shit which rachi doesn't like (and everything else tbh).

 

[Pocket]

Yea, that's a strong combo, The Leprechaun. I usually give Jirachi enough Speed to outrun Jolly Breloom, though, so I can prevent it from using Spore via Iron Head flinch (for some teams I even run Safeguard > T-Wave on Jirachi).

 

[Squinty314]

mat block greninja + shell smash focus sash cloyster ensures cloyster gets 2 shell smashes how bout that?

 

[Level 51]

mat block greninja + shell smash focus sash cloyster ensures cloyster gets 2 shell smashes how bout that?

not necessarily. if you're fighting someone running one of the following things:

thunder wave
fake out
talonflame
taunt
anything faster than greninja

you will be unable to protect cloyster with mat block. given the number of scarvers running around, not to mention the fact that most good players carry at least one of the other things i mentioned (and we're assuming we're fighting good players sooooo), this combination is best relegated to lower-ladder stomping.

 

[Darkmalice]

Jirachi @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 240 SDef / 252 HP / 16 Spd
Careful Nature
- Follow Me
- Thunder Wave
- Iron Head
- Protect

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Protect

• Belly Jet azumarill is the dopest dope
• Jirachi redirects grass, poison, and electric moves. Speed EVs are enough to beat max speed adamant bisharp (and try to flinch it). Anything slower than/threatens azumarill gets paraflinched.
• Pikablu kills shit that carry heat wave or earthquake, i.e shit which rachi doesn't like (and everything else tbh).

Yea, that's a strong combo, The Leprechaun. I usually give Jirachi enough Speed to outrun Jolly Breloom, though, so I can prevent it from using Spore via Iron Head flinch (for some teams I even run Safeguard > T-Wave on Jirachi).

Jirachi could also hold a Lum Berry for the purpose of protecting Azumarill from status without being affected by it in return. It saves the effort of having to give up a moveset for Safeguard or Speed to outrun Breloom. Obviously this comes at the big price of Sitrus Berry, though fortunately you only need one turn to help Azumarill set up, and the Lum Berry means that Spore can't shut down your core (Amoonguss and Breloom could otherwise be issues), as well as giving Jirachi better protection against other statuses.

 

[Stratos]

Jirachi could also hold a Lum Berry for the purpose of protecting Azumarill from status without being affected by it in return. It saves the effort of having to give up a moveset for Safeguard or Speed to outrun Breloom. Obviously this comes at the big price of Sitrus Berry, though fortunately you only need one turn to help Azumarill set up, and the Lum Berry means that Spore can't shut down your core (Amoonguss and Breloom could otherwise be issues), as well as giving Jirachi better protection against other statuses.

I'd consider running enough speed to beat jolly loom anyway unless I had tyranitar support though, because Loom typically run sash. However, it's far less mandatory because you can sac your rachi to take the second sleep and azu can do a waterfall-ajet jig to take it out.

 

[Nollan]

I will present a solid offensive core (I think its classified as "offensive" anyways) I've been using on a good percentage of my teams recently:

Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Atk / 96 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Rock Slide
- Knock Off / Superpower / whatever
- U-turn

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 180 Atk / 252 HP / 76 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

Mega-Mawile is (as we all should know) a very potent threat in the metagame. It's biggest dilemma is that it struggles to hit Steel-types, especially Heatran. Landorus-T helps minimize this issue while Mawile makes a solid switch in to Ice-type attacks Landorus-T is bound to attract. The two are particularly useful in that they both have Intimidate, allowing one to easily use the pair to weaken physical attacks very quickly without losing too much momentum thanks to Landorus-T's access to U-turn. Two notable weaknesses this pair has that should be covered are Bisharp (and other less common Defiant attackers) and rain cores.

As a final note, a nice partner (though it increases your weakness to Bisharp by a fair amount) for the duo is Togekiss, which provides Tailwind and Follow Me support and gives Landorus-T a partner that it can easily spam Earthquake alongside.

 

[LightningLuxray]

Bumping this thread from the dark depths of Page 2 to post a core I've loved for awhile now:

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 204 Spd / 252 SAtk / 32 HP / 20 Def
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Energy Ball
- Sleep Powder
- Sludge Bomb
- Protect

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Basically, what this core does it absolutely shit on Trick Room teams, especially leads. This is because of their access to Sleep Powder and Taunt, respectively, allowing them to prevent the opponent from using Trick Room, even if they lead with two users. Another nice thing is that they both have really nice coverage together, and can KO a lot of Pokemon when they double target, which isn't that hard to do once Venusaur has put Pokemon to sleep. Anyways, their isn't really much else to say about this core except for the fact that I've been using it on a team would be weak to Trick Room under normal circumstances, but these guys just save the day with their excellent supportive and offensive potential.

 

[AuraRayquaza]

Ok a few things.

1. I didnt know this thread even existed

2. At the tine of this post youngjake93 is also watching this thread.

3. That seems like a pretty good core lightningluxray. I would like to ask what those evs on venusaur achieve, and why energy ball has been used over giga drain when LO is used. Presumably for power, or does it get a certain ko? You also have lower ivs, where you seem to have run hp fire and not changed them back

 

[LightningLuxray]

Ok a few things.

1. I didnt know this thread even existed

2. At the tine of this post youngjake93 (who?) is also watching this thread.

3. That seems like a pretty good core lightningluxray. I would like to ask what those evs on venusaur achieve, and why energy ball has been used over giga drain when LO is used. Presumably for power, or does it get a certain ko? You also have lower ivs, where you seem to have run hp fire and not changed them back

gdi about those IVs x_x

Anyways those EVs outspeed something specific while adding extra bulk... I can't remember exactly though, I'm sorry. finally was the one who provided me with the spread, so he'd probably know.

Also I just prefer Energy Ball for the all around higher Base Power, though if you like healing you can always go with Giga Drain instead :]

 

[finally]

gdi about those IVs x_x

Anyways those EVs outspeed something specific while adding extra bulk... I can't remember exactly though, I'm sorry. finally was the one who provided me with the spread, so he'd probably know.

Also I just prefer Energy Ball for the all around higher Base Power, though if you like healing you can always go with Giga Drain instead :]

outspeeds +1 timid base 100's or scarved timid base 100's in chlorophyll
without chloro it outspeeds adamant breloom for reference but not jolly breloom or adamant/jolly mamoswine
i think steel's hp and def is to optimize venu's lackluster physical defense and also optimizing LO damage. amirite?