DP Deoxys-S

[Pulse]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/deoxys-s

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This is a pretty nice set I've been running on Shoddy for a while that acts as extremely good counter material. It does a great job at countering Garchomp, Gyarados, and Infernape, in an extremely similar manner to Starmie, but it is much bulkier and much faster. So yea, heres the "Counter" Deoxys set.

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[SET]
Name: Counter Material
Move 1: Recover
Move 2: Ice Beam
Move 3: Thunderbolt
Move 4: Psychic
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 184 SpA / 72 Spe
Nature: Timid
Ability: Pressure

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Before Deoxys-S's entry into standard play, the best possible answer to Gyarados, Garchomp, and Infernape was Starmie. In a nearly identical manner to Starmie, this Deoxys-S set allows for a great "counter" to all three of these devastating threats. Thanks to a much superior Speed stat, it is able to reach 455 Speed, allowing it to outrun Adamant Choice Scarf Garchomp. With the 252 HP EVs, it takes hits much better than Starmie. It can survive any unboosted attack from standard Life Orb Infernape, it can live a Dragon Danced Waterfall from Gyarados, and even live an Outrage from Adamant Choice Scarf Garchomp. As if that isn't enough, it can easily recover off the damage thanks to it's great Speed. Even the popular revenge killer Dugtrio fails to OHKO Deoxys-S with an Adamant, Choice Banded Sucker Punch, doing around 88% at max.</p>

<p>Thunderbolt is necessary for taking down Gyarados, Psychic for Infernape, and Ice Beam for Garchomp. On the subject of Garchomp, it has more than enough Special Attack to guarantee the OHKO on standard Garchomp, hitting 272. The EVs could be subject to change should the user desire. 252 HP / 96 SpA / 160 Spe can be used to outrun Modest Choice Scarf Gengar, though you will definitely notice the lack in power.</p>

<p>Pressure also aids this set a lot. Late game stall wars can be ended much quicker thanks to Pressure and Recover. The opponent's PP will be depleted extremely quickly. The main issue with this set is that the user must keep in mind that it is not a sweeper, and that it should really only be used for aiding your team in countering very potent threats. In any case, Deoxys-S gets the job done and does it well. Very well.</p>

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Feel free to comment on the set. Here are some nice damage calculations for those who doubt the bulkiness of this Deoxys-S set:

Life Orb Infernape - Fire Blast: 307 SpA vs 279 SpD & 304 HP (120 Base Power): 184 - 217 (78.29% - 92.76%)

Easily lived and killed with Psychic. Health is high enough that it can Recover and come back in again.

252 EV +1 Atk Gyarados - Waterfall: 574 Atk vs 279 Def & 304 HP (80 Base Power): 231 - 273 (75.33% - 88.82%)

You will outspeed it anyways. This is the most powerful Gyarados you will ever face, since it has Life Orb and 252 Atk EVs. Without Life Orb it is a lot less powerful. Plus, it really won't get a chance to attack.

Choice Scarf Garchomp - Outrage: 394 Atk vs 279 Def & 304 HP (120 Base Power): 183 - 216 (77.30% - 91.12%)

Live it, lock it in for the OHKO. Unlike Starmie, it can hit back before Garchomp gets off it's second Outrage.

I know this set has its drawbacks; a Pursuit weakness is never nice, but I definitely think if Starmie gets a mention for this set, Deoxys-S should too, since I believe it is better in so many ways. Feel free to bash, I don't really mind criticism. :)

Thanks for reading all this.

 

[Judgement]

Your damage calculations are incorrect. You assumed that Deoxys-S has maximum defenses and HP.

The EVs that you have give it defensive stats of 304 HP, 216 Defense, and 216 Special Defense.

For example,

Life Orb Infernape - Fire Blast: 307 SpA vs 279 SpD & 304 HP (120 Base Power): 184 - 217 (60.53% - 71.38%)

actually is

307 attack vs 216 defense, 120 power(* 1.3 * 1.5), 304 max HP: 78.95% - 92.76%

 

[Pulse]

Your damage calculations are incorrect. You assumed that Deoxys-S has maximum defenses and HP.

The EVs that you have give it defensive stats of 304 HP, 216 Defense, and 216 Special Defense.

For example,



actually is

307 attack vs 216 defense, 120 power(* 1.3 * 1.5), 304 max HP: 78.95% - 92.76%

Thanks, I knew they looked a bit off. I realize now I was looking at the third column, not the second. X_X I'll fix them up right now.

Also, for everyone else reading, keep in mind I picked the strongest attack that it would do to Deoxys-S. Obviously Grass Knot, Close Combat, Hidden Power [Ice], Ice Fang, Fire Fang, and moves you will actually switch into will be doing much less damage.

 

[moomoonerd]

The moveset for this Deoxys-S set is etched in stone.

I think this should just be "This Deoxys-S set is etched in stone." However, I don't think that sentence is really necessary. I don't see why Thunderbolt, for example, should be necessary if the team already covers Gyarados reasonably well and can use the moveslot more useful for the team.

 

[Pulse]

I think this should just be "This Deoxys-S set is etched in stone." However, I don't think that sentence is really necessary. I don't see why Thunderbolt, for example, should be necessary if the team already covers Gyarados reasonably well and can use the moveslot more useful for the team.

Well, if Gyarados is handled you would probably use Starmie and get the benefit of Rapid Spin, which would make it more valuable than the Deoxys-S set in many aspects. However, now that I think of it, I suppose Reflect / Light Screen could be used on this set for team support so I will remove the sentence.

 

[Lawman]

How much would Psychic do to YacheChomp? More or less than Ice Beam? Not all chomps are scarfed, so I want to see if it could potentially counter others.

 

[Pulse]

Uhh not much at all. Ice Beam still does 50% minimum though with Yache Berry. Unfortunately, a +2 Earthquake will kill even a 252 / 252 HP / Def Deoxys-S, so it wouldn't matter anyways. But 50% min is pretty good for a Countering Pokémon and not even a sweeper.

 

[Pulse]

I really feel that if Starmie gets a mention of this set, Deoxys-S should as well. Even without the defensive Water type, it isn't always a burden. It can switch in on Grass Knots and Thunderbolts, which can help it stall out the likes of Celebi should it come to that. So yea, I'll give this one bump to see how it goes.

 

[JohnR011]

You might want to mention that even with the optional 160 speed ev's over the current 72, Deoxys-S will only be outspeeding modest scarfgar, not timid scarfgar who isn't that rare. It might even be worth noting that an Adamant CB Dugtrio, a popular revenge killer of Deoxys, will fail to OHKO this set with Sucker Punch (at max, it does 269 damage). I really like this set and will probably try it out soon.

 

[Pulse]

You might want to mention that even with the optional 160 speed ev's over the current 72, Deoxys-S will only be outspeeding modest scarfgar, not timid scarfgar who isn't that rare. It might even be worth noting that an Adamant CB Dugtrio, a popular revenge killer of Deoxys, will fail to OHKO this set with Sucker Punch (at max, it does 269 damage). I really like this set and will probably try it out soon.

Added, thanks.

 

[Zathura]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/deoxys-s

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This is a pretty nice set I've been running on Shoddy for a while that acts as extremely good counter material. It does a great job at countering Garchomp, Gyarados, and Infernape, in an extremely similar manner to Starmie, but it is much bulkier and much faster. So yea, heres the "Counter" Deoxys set.

---

[SET]
Name: Counter Material
Move 1: Recover
Move 2: Ice Beam
Move 3: Thunderbolt
Move 4: Psychic
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 184 SpA / 72 Spe
Nature: Timid
Ability: Pressure

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Before Deoxys-S's entry into standard play, the best possible answer to Gyarados, Garchomp, and Infernape was Starmie. In a nearly identical manner to Starmie, this Deoxys-S set allows for a great "counter" to all three of these devastating threats. Thanks to a much superior Speed stat, it is able to reach 455 Speed, allowing it to outrun Adamant Choice Scarf Garchomp. With the 252 HP EVs, it takes hits much better than Starmie. It can live through? any unboosted attack from standard Life Orb Infernape, it can live a Dragon Danced Waterfall from Gyarados, and even live an Outrage from Adamant Choice Scarf Garchomp. As if that weren't enough, it can easily recover off the damage thanks to it's great Speed. Even the popular revenge killer, Dugtrio, fails to OHKO Deoxys-S with an Adamant, Choice Banded Sucker Punch, doing around 88% at max.</p>

<p>Thunderbolt is necessary for taking down Gyarados; Psychic for Infernape; and Ice Beam for Garchomp. On the subject of Garchomp: it has more than enough Special Attack to guarantee the OHKO on standard Garchomp, hitting 272. The EVs could be subject to change should the user desire. 252 HP / 96 SpA / 160 Spe can be used to outrun Choice Scarf Gengar, though you will definitely notice the lack in power.</p>

<p>Pressure also aids this set a lot. Late game stall wars can be ended much quicker thanks to Pressure and Recover. The opponent's PP will be depleted extremely quickly. The main issue with this set is that the user should keep in mind that it is not a sweeper, and that it should really only be used for aiding your team in countering very potent threats. In any case, Deoxys-S gets the job done and does it well. Very well.</p>

---

Feel free to comment on the set. Here are some nice damage calculations for those who doubt the bulkiness of this Deoxys-S set:

Life Orb Infernape - Fire Blast: 307 SpA vs 279 SpD & 304 HP (120 Base Power): 184 - 217 (78.29% - 92.76%)

Easily lived and killed with Psychic. Health is high enough that it can Recover and come back in again.

252 EV +1 Atk Gyarados - Waterfall: 574 Atk vs 279 Def & 304 HP (80 Base Power): 231 - 273 (75.33% - 88.82%)

You will outspeed it anyways. This is the most powerful Gyarados you will ever face, since it has Life Orb and 252 Atk EVs. Without Life Orb it is a lot less powerful. Plus, it really won't get a chance to attack.

Choice Scarf Garchomp - Outrage: 394 Atk vs 279 Def & 304 HP (120 Base Power): 183 - 216 (77.30% - 91.12%)

Live it, lock it in for the OHKO. Unlike Starmie, it can hit back before Garchomp gets off it's second Outrage.

I know this set has its drawbacks; a Pursuit weakness is never nice, but I definitely think if Starmie gets a mention for this set, Deoxys-S should too, since I believe it is better in so many ways. Feel free to bash, I don't really mind criticism. :)

Thanks for reading all this.

 

[Pulse]

Thank you Zathura, edits made.

 

[Pulse]

One last try. I don't see whats keeping it out of the analysis. I've tested it, I have a (in my opinion) well written analysis, and no one has really told me why it isn't valid. :\ I just am fed up from not getting any feedback aside from a few grammatical errors.

 

[Cynthia]

I think this set is quite useful, People think of Deoxys-E as a glass cannon, but it can work like a non-spinning Starmie. The only real problem with this is that it can't threaten Ttar with Water STAB like Starmie can, leaving it vulnerable to Dark switchins (Weavile isn't scared too much by this either.) You could have Superpower or Grass Knot for these threats I suppose.

 

[darkie]

One last try. I don't see whats keeping it out of the analysis. I've tested it, I have a (in my opinion) well written analysis, and no one has really told me why it isn't valid. :\ I just am fed up from not getting any feedback aside from a few grammatical errors.

You posted this set when the SCMS was down. With Aldaron's 40(!) peer edits and all the others, we have a HUGE backlog of edits to go through and eventually add. Relax. Everything will happen eventually.

 

[Pulse]

I think this set is quite useful, People think of Deoxys-E as a glass cannon, but it can work like a non-spinning Starmie. The only real problem with this is that it can't threaten Ttar with Water STAB like Starmie can, leaving it vulnerable to Dark switchins (Weavile isn't scared too much by this either.) You could have Superpower or Grass Knot for these threats I suppose.

Eh, even then you won't come close to killing it and saying Starmie doesn't fear Tyranitar thanks to a super effective STAB is really a misconception. Thanks for the input though.

You posted this set when the SCMS was down. With Aldaron's 40(!) peer edits and all the others, we have a HUGE backlog of edits to go through and eventually add. Relax. Everything will happen eventually.

Thanks for the reply, I suppose I was just upset that my one thread was really simply blotted out by the barrage of edits from Aldaron. Call it juvenile if you want but it's still the way I felt. I'm fine with waiting, so thank you for letting me know that it isn't being (completely) ignored. Only temporarily. ;)

 

[matty]

Eh, even then you won't come close to killing it and saying Starmie doesn't fear Tyranitar thanks to a super effective STAB is really a misconception. Thanks for the input though.

Thanks for the reply, I suppose I was just upset that my one thread was really simply blotted out by the barrage of edits from Aldaron. Call it juvenile if you want but it's still the way I felt. I'm fine with waiting, so thank you for letting me know that it isn't being (completely) ignored. Only temporarily. ;)

We are starting to clear all the finished analysises (both Darkie and myself) and well get most of them cleared sooner or later. Here, have a piece of toast while you wait

 

[Pulse]

Might as well take one last stab at this before I quit.

 

[Caelum]

Might as well take one last stab at this before I quit.

Well, your posting made me think you didn't think this was going anywhere (maybe I misinterpreted this, so I thought I'd throw in my support.

The policy of smogon (not that I speak for it, but rather my understanding of it) on whether or not an analysis should be included is that if another Pokemon does it better then it shouldn't be included. Working off that if Deoxys-s does a similar style set better than something else (in this case Starmie) doesn't it deserve to be put on the analysis page? I would think so. I just tested this set for the last hour and it is more effective than Starmie, as Pulse argued. If Starmie with a similar analysis is included and seemingly does an inferior job of it I can't see why this shouldn't go on the analysis page. Nice set Pulse, I just ask you put modest in front of "choice scarf Gengar" to be clear 160 speed EVs doesn't outrun timid scarfgar.

 

[Pulse]

Thanks. Adding "Modest".