Doubles Ubers

[KyleCole]

approved by Arcticblast
previous thread by Joim
Disclaimer: This is a thread to comment and discuss on the Doubles Ubers meta game. This meta game is not official and is thus to be considered an Other Meta game, only relevant to Doubles OU and reliant on main Doubles OU rules.
Doubles Ubers

Doubles Ubers is a meta game where most Doubles OU bans are lifted and thus you can enjoy a more free environment. Feel free to discuss tactics, teams, Pokémon, and rules on this thread. This is also the place to post Doubles Ubers replays and to organize tournaments.

Doubles Ubers can be played on Pokémon Showdown on its ladder or via challenge. The active clauses are Species Clause, Moody Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, and Endless Battle Clause; thus rules in place are the following:
Pokémon from all six generations that are not unreleased nor illegal and do not share Pokédex number are allowed.
All released abilities that are not Moody are allowed.
All released items are allowed.
All moves but Dark Void and OHKO moves are allowed.
Combinations of moves, abilities, and items that cause battles to be endless are banned.
Team Preview is present.
Mega Rayquaza is NOT banned

If you're here from the Ubers forum read this!

Some Topics to post about:

• How to stop Mega Rayquaza?
• Best set for Mega Ray?
• Are weather sweepers (Swift Swim/Chlorophyll) viable?
• Are Latias and Mega Salamence completely outclassed?

Sample Teams:
Mew + Mega Ray Offense by KyleCole

importable

Lead with Mega Ray 90% of the time and xern the other 10%. Fake Out turn one while the partner sets up via SD/Geomancy or attacks. Turn 2 Ally Switch if your opponent is threatening to KO your partner this turn, Transform otherwise. Super Fang is used turn 1 occasionally if fake out isn't needed and Mega Ray / Geo Xern will not be able to KO a threat turn 2. For example opposing Arceus Steel, or Ho-oh & Pdon vs Xern will require a super fang. Pretty much sweep from there, you're going to know in the first 5 turns if you win the game or not with this team.

Rayquaza-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Delta Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Extreme Speed
- Swords Dance
- Protect

Mew @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: NaN Atk
- Fake Out
- Transform
- Ally Switch
- Super Fang

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: NaN Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Geomancy
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Arceus-Steel @ Iron Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: NaN Atk
- Judgment
- Earth Power
- Icy Wind
- Protect

Ho-Oh @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Atk / 52 SpD / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Tailwind
- Protect

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Precipice Blades
- Roar
- Protect

Arceus + Mega Ray Offense by KillianVGC

Importable

This full offensive team based on the attack only Hitmontop fake out support enabling Xearneas to set up geomancy and intimdate for dont get much damage Mega Rayquaza is the team's strongest Attacker, he is really dengerous after a dragon dance Groudon provides Roar so it can forcing switch to others mons who try to set up dd or geomancy Groudon also really strong and help Xearneas against steel mon Arceus is another cool mon i added to the team with Swords Dance and E-speed power it can get rid of mon who have attack priority like Talonflame for let Xearneas sweep freely finally i added Kyurem-White that i like a lot it's a powerfull mon who can check lugia which is really annoying and bulky Kyurem is modest llife orb to hit as hard as possible.

Rayquaza-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Delta Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Dance
- Protect

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Moonblast
- Geomancy
- Protect

Hitmontop @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Atk / 68 Def
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Wide Guard
- Quick Guard

Arceus @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Protect

Kyurem-White @ Life Orb
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Claw
- Roar

Mega Kangaskhan Semi TR by Omega

Importable

RMT: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/dubers-gravity-peak-1-1617-elo.3556006/

Whiskey Pete (Groudon) @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Precipice Blades
- Overheat
- Swords Dance
- Protect

Figure (Cresselia) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Helping Hand
- Gravity
- Ice Beam

OMFG (Xerneas) @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
- Geomancy
- Protect

Skrillex (Ferrothorn) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 112 HP / 144 Atk / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect

GltichxCity (Kangaskhan) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Power-Up Punch
- Fake Out

Grant Bowtie (Landorus-Therian) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Stone Edge
- Protect

If you have a successful Doubles Ubers team you want added to the sample teams, post it in the thread and I'll take a look!

 

[KyleCole]

Welcome to the Smogon Doubles Ubers Viability Rankings post. The thread is open to discussion and if you can make a great post about why something should have a different rank then I'll make the change! Please don't bandwagon posts. Thanks to unfixable for the vrankings in the old thread!

Tier One
Pokemon that have a good matchup vs a large portion of the metagame, are either quite powerful or offer great team support, and can fit on almost any team. You can't really go wrong by using these Pokemon.

Primal Groudon

Mega Rayquaza

Xerneas

Tier One and a Half
Pokemon that are generally strong, but can be dead weight in some matchups, don't have great matchups vs a lot of Tier 1, or are only particularly useful for checking a certain team style.

Arceus

Arceus-Steel

Dialga

Ho-oh

Latios

Mega Kangaskhan

Primal Kyogre

Tier Two
Pokemon which, while good, only fit on a specific team style or require heavy support.

Aegislash

Amoonguss

Arceus-Ghost

Kyurem-White

Landorus-Therian

Mega Mawile

Mew

Mewtwo

Palkia

Salamence Mega

Thundurus Incarnate

Tier Three
Pokemon who can hold their own in the meta game and fit well on certain teams due to their unique match ups, but are not broadly usable for one reason or another.

Arceus-Dark

Arceus-Fairy

Arceus-Ground

Cresselia

Crobat

Deoxys-Attack

Ferrothorn

Hitmontop

Jirachi

Klefki

Mega Diancie

Rayquaza

Shaymin-Sky

Weavile

Whimsicott

Yveltal

Outclassed Tier
These Pokemon may seem viable, but you're best off using another Pokemon that acts as a more viable version of the Pokemon in this tier.

Kyurem-B (outclassed by Kyurem-W)

Latias (Outclassed by Latios)

 

[Pastelle]

Shoutout to Kyle for being in charge of an important forum.

But in all seriousness, it's nice to see a shiny new thread for a fun metagame. I used to play this tier a lot back in XY, but kinda stopped cause Mega Rayquaza made me mad. I'm curious so I'll ask it; in what ways have you guys been dealing with Mega Ray? Are their specific mons or sets that have a good matchup? It just seems really over centralizing on the surface. I'm curious to see what you guys think.

 

[qsns]

its an absolute monster that ohkos half the shit in the game but the one effective way of dealing with it is by keeping the speed constantly in your favor. i know "tailwind teams" are not a respected thing in doubles ou but they sure are top tier in dubers. it's so hard to take two of primal kyogre's origin pulses, two of offensive pdon's precipice blades, or two of latios's draco meteors. nothing switches in, so tailwind basically can guarantee you two or more kills. i'd say tailwind or trick room is absolutely necessary for any functioning dubers team. also, there are a few mons that i like using, such as dialga and giratina-o, that can tank any one of its hits and kill it back :]

kyle you really need to rank cress >:C cress is great in this metagame just because it has the ability to live any 1 hit and set up trick room. most teams dont have effective ways of dealing with room because they have to focus on every single other threat and i feel tr's extended turns compared to tailwind make it extremely powerful in such an offensive metagame.

 

[KyleCole]

I'm curious so I'll ask it; in what ways have you guys been dealing with Mega Ray?

some ways to deal with Mega Ray:

• Scarf Ice Beam Kyu W
• Ice Beam Mewtwo
• Scarf Draco on pretty much any dragon
• Draco Dialga (for non V create Rays)
• Arc Fairy
• Mega Mawile in TR
• Mega Diancie in TR
• Para with Thundurus

That being said Mega Ray is by far the best mon in Dubers so no shame in admitting that it gives you problems. It's a monster.

tailwind & Cress

• Tailwind is OK, Ho-Oh and some Arc forms are decent setters. It's not that great though because Arceus and Mega Ray both carry Espeed + set up to barrel through. I think Twind in Dubers is pretty much as good as it is in DOU
• Cress is just a worse TR setter than Dialga or Palkia or Arc Ghost

 

[qsns]

• Tailwind is OK, Ho-Oh and some Arc forms are decent setters. It's not that great though because Arceus and Mega Ray both carry Espeed + set up to barrel through. I think Twind in Dubers is pretty much as good as it is in DOU

mons arent going to be able to set up on you when you threaten them with extremely strong attacks from both mons lol. dubers is so much more offensive and if you think you're going to be setting up with something like latios + pogre on the field, youre insane. and if you're saying "what if they're already set up" then you play like a good player and don't click tw? im not saying its a button you click to auto win the game but you put so much more pressure on your opponent.

• Cress is just a worse TR setter than Dialga or Palkia or Arc Ghost

dialga gets ohko'd by precipice blades, palkia gets ohko'd by a draco, and ive never seen arc ghost but i guess it would be cool! anyways, the point is that cress is really hard to knock out even without fake out support especially because of levitate, rendering one of the most common mons in the tier completely unable to hit it. its still got the same solid support movepool and lunar dance is actually pretty sick when the opponent's game plan is something like "weaken pdon for primal ogre sweep". ill try out arc ghost tho

 

[KyleCole]

• Tailwind is good
• Cress is better than Palk and Dialga

• Yeah Tailwind is solid. You don't need it.
• Use this
  • 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 40 Def Dialga: 338-402 (83.6 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• Cress is pretty much a do nothing TR setter, you get up TR and then you have to waste a turn switching or clicking psyshock for like 6 damage. If you want to run healing wish that sounds OK but then you pretty much need to click it turn 1. The other setters can all be made to set TR in certain situations (Arc Ghost for Fake Out, Mental Herb Dialga/Palkia for Taunt etc) and still be offensive afterwards. If you pick your TR setter based on the ability of that mon to take 1 hit and set TR then you might as well use Sash Hypno. It will do just as much as cress once TR is up but it'll get out of the way faster.

 

[SocialSocialSocial]

Is it actually worth using any other mega than Rayquaza?

 

[Bluerain]

Where would Giratina-O go, or should it remain unranked?

 

[Funbot28]

Some noms:

1.5 to 1: It's one of the best answers to P-Don atm, and can do a shit load of damage with Origin Pulse. Can sweep teams with TW support, and is honestly parallel compared to P-Don imo.

1.5 to 2: With Arceus-Steel and Xerneas running around everywhere, Latios has a hard time adjusting to the meta's top threats. It just dies to quickly from strong mons, provides nice TW and Memento support, but honestly think it's ranked to high.

2 to 1.5: Mew is an amazing support mon, that can heavily decide the tide of the match. Especially with Transform, it can become a devastating sweeper that teams must prepare for, or it can provide immense support with TR and Fake Out.

3 to Unranked: Why is Weavile ranked in the first place, I honestly never see it, and can't think of a situation where it would be useful. Can someone explain to me?

Also I would like to know why Latias is outclassed by Latios, it has more bulk, and can provide nice team support with Healing Wish.

 

[skies]

1.5 to 1: It's one of the best answers to P-Don atm, and can do a shit load of damage with Origin Pulse. Can sweep teams with TW support, and is honestly parallel compared to P-Don imo.

The issue with this is the metagame being a physically-oriented one. Primal Groudon can switch in and beat it, so it's really not "the best" answer, that's Latios. Primal Groudon and Mega Rayquaza both walk over Primal Kyogre, and it's lacking Speed makes it require support that you don't need with Primal Groudon. It has too many flaws to move up to the best of the best imo.

1.5 to 2: With Arceus-Steel and Xerneas running around everywhere, Latios has a hard time adjusting to the meta's top threats. It just dies to quickly from strong mons, provides nice TW and Memento support, but honestly think it's ranked to high.

While it's true that Arceus-Steel and Xerneas are problematic, you're looking past what else Latios provides. Tailwind support, Memento if you really want, and a solid offensive counter to Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre all in one. It offers a lot of synergy with being immune to Earthquake as well, and it's just an excellent Pokemon in a ton of regards. Don't see it dropping anytime soon.

2 to 1.5: Mew is an amazing support mon, that can heavily decide the tide of the match. Especially with Transform, it can become a devastating sweeper that teams must prepare for, or it can provide immense support with TR and Fake Out.

I do not have a lot of experience with Mew, so I'm not going to comment on this nomination. Though, I don't see Mew as a 1.5 threat, just a 2, thanks to numerous flaws it has such as being overwhelmed easily, having major 4mss, Transform being easy to spot from 10 miles away, etc. Not opposed to this nomination, but I don't really know ~_~.

3 to Unranked: Why is Weavile ranked in the first place, I honestly never see it, and can't think of a situation where it would be useful. Can someone explain to me?

Weavile provides one of the fastest (I believe it is the fastest?) Fake Out, and it has a powerful Knock Off. Can dissuade Rayquaza, but it's shaky due to Focus Sash. Also beats Latios and the common support Pokemon of the tier. It's got its niche, that's why it's in 3, so I think it should stay ranked~!

Also I would like to know why Latias is outclassed by Latios, it has more bulk, and can provide nice team support with Healing Wish.

Latias isn't ranked because there's no realistic situation afaik that the extra bulk comes in handy. Meanwhile, you miss out on power. Latios checks the exact same things, beats the exact same things, and is just all-around better. Healing Wish is cute, but I've never found it to be the most solid of options, as it's a hit-or-miss. Latias is just not a Latios, really.

Dunno why I haven't seen this thread, even though KC tagged me lol ~_~. Nice thread, Kyle! :D

 

[megacyber]

So I hear Groudon's pretty good.

 

[rau]

So, I've been playing around with a sample team I found on the previous thread (and iirc I've even asked KyleCole for feedback in ps before), but I'd like to nominate Whimsicott for Tier 3 for being one damn fine lead/paralysis spreader. Quite a pain against certain leads. I find it working well against GeoXern, as it can Encore it the turn it uses Geomancy, and have another mon clean it up or Mew transform. Here I got a quick replay if that works:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublesubers-262993041

set

Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Tailwind
- Stun Spore
- Encore

Also seconding everyone that's saying this is a fun meta because it sure is.

 

[KyleCole]

So, I've been playing around with a sample team I found on the previous thread (and iirc I've even asked KyleCole for feedback in ps before), but I'd like to nominate Whimsicott for Tier 3 for being one damn fine lead/paralysis spreader. Quite a pain against certain leads. I find it working well against GeoXern, as it can Encore it the turn it uses Geomancy, and have another mon clean it up or Mew transform. Here I got a quick replay if that works:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublesubers-262993041

set

Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Tailwind
- Stun Spore
- Encore

Also seconding everyone that's saying this is a fun meta because it sure is.

This is pretty cool, I was expecting something pretty gimmicky when you mentioned whimsicott but in a tier with so much set up Encore can come in handy. Whimsicott definitely has some huge flaws (mostly the 0 offensive presence) but I think tier 3 is a great place for it and I'll add it to the V rankings right now. I also really like Stun Spore.

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Whimsicott: 273-322 (84.2 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Where would Giratina-O go, or should it remain unranked?

Unranked for now, if you think otherwise nominate it for a rank! (preferably with replays/proof of a ladder peak etc.)

 

[KillianVGC]

This full offensive team based on the attack only Hitmontop fake out support enabling Xearneas to set up geomancy and intimdate for dont get much damage Mega Rayquaza is the team's strongest Attacker, he is really dengerous after a dragon dance Groudon provides Roar so it can forcing switch to others mons who try to set up dd or geomancy Groudon also really strong and help Xearneas against steel mon Arceus is another cool mon i added to the team with Swords Dance and E-speed power it can get rid of mon who have attack priority like Talonflame for let Xearneas sweep freely finally i added Kyurem-White that i like a lot it's a powerfull mon who can check lugia which is really annoying and bulky Kyurem is modest llife orb to hit as hard as possible.

Importable

Rayquaza-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Delta Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Dance
- Protect

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Moonblast
- Geomancy
- Protect

Hitmontop @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Atk / 68 Def
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Wide Guard
- Quick Guard

Arceus @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Protect

Kyurem-White @ Life Orb
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Claw
- Roar

 

[CorruptedOmega]

2 --> 1.5

“There is literally no reason to not use Mega Rayquaza.” –everybody 2k15
“Fight me.” –OmegaX 2k15

First, lets get this out of the way.

252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 356-421 (104.3 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 312-369 (91.4 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Yes. On average, Mega Rayquaza hits about 10% harder than Mega Kangaskhan. This 10% has slight significance. For example, Mega Rayquaza can OHKO uninvested Primal Kyogre where as Mega Kangaskhan has a 50/50 shot at it. In this respect, Rayquaza is superior to Kangaskhan. However, given the fast pace of any doubles metagame, this 10% can be worn away by chip damage, spread moves, double targeting, or any number independent variables. Kangaskhan has many advantages, however. Mega Kangaskhan’s greatest advantage is her access to Fake Out. Fake Out is an incredibly useful supportive move that can essentially buy one free turn for an ally. This one free turn can allow an ally to set up or simply attack an enemy. Also, Mega Kangaskhan has more bulk than Mega Rayquaza, which can come in clutch in many situations. Now the one thing I have not mentioned yet is speed. In this respect, Mega Rayquaza is also superior to Mega Kangaskhan. This is not to say that Mega Kangaskhan is slow; Mega Kangaskhan sports a respectable base 100 speed which allows it to outrun Xerneas and Primal Kyogre, among others. In short, Kangaskhan can work well on many teams though it requires some form of light speed control (e.g. Tailwind, Thunder Wave, Icy Wind, etc).

tl;dr: Kangaskhan is a more balanced alternative for a Mega slot than Rayquaza.

Example Set

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Inner Focus / Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge / Return
- Sucker Punch
- Power-up Punch
- Fake Out

The EVs are non-negotiable. 252 Spe and a Jolly Nature is essential for outspeeding Kyogre before mega evolution and outspeeding Xerneas after mega evolution. Inner Focus is actually the preferred ability, as Arceus-Ghost and Giratina are the only 2 viable ghost types in the meta, and are seen rather infrequently. Inner Focus is much more useful for taking Fake Outs from Mew and preventing an opposing mon from setting up first turn. Double-Edge is preferred for its greater power, but Return can be used of you're worried about recoil damage.

 

[CorruptedOmega]

pls sample team ty bai

Importable

Whiskey Pete (Groudon) @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Precipice Blades
- Overheat
- Swords Dance
- Protect

Figure (Cresselia) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Helping Hand
- Gravity
- Ice Beam

OMFG (Xerneas) @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
- Geomancy
- Protect

Skrillex (Ferrothorn) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 112 HP / 144 Atk / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect

GltichxCity (Kangaskhan) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Power-Up Punch
- Fake Out

Grant Bowtie (Landorus-Therian) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Stone Edge
- Protect

Description

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/dubers-gravity-peak-1-1617-elo.3556006/

 

[CorruptedOmega]

I think VGC just stole our format.

 

[Rarycaris]

Is Giratina-O omitted from the viability rankings for a reason?

 

[n10siT]

It's hot garbage and outclassed by it's Altered-Forme counterpart

 

[KyleCole]

no

EDIT: ok so no. It's way too weak in this tier, HJK is never a selling point in a metagame that uses protect on most if not all Pokemon at least viably. You have no proof of performance and it is not even the fastest fake out available.

 

[Elegyy]

Were you telling your opp through pm which buttons to click

 

[rau]

Honestly, I feel that you'd be better off using Hitmontop, Lana Del Seldo, since it pretty much carries all the supporting moves you mentioned, while also having better bulk and quite the useful ability in intimidate, helping it better deal with megakang (if this statement is bullocks, forgive me, everyone), pretty much meaning you don't have to rely on a subpar item like sash.

 

[megacyber]

i kinda doubt hitmontop would be any good in dubers, considering how shit it is in dou.

 

[CorruptedOmega]

wow we're on the second page, what a mile stone.

hitmontop is decently good in DUbers, take a look at Killian's sample team.

y does this thread still exist now that VGC 16 is here. we are going to be completely overshadowed by the tremendously larger player base of VGC. if it were up to me, I'd delete it. I believe there is little more exploration to be done in this OM.