Discussion: Swords Dance Skarm

[Drakhun]

Skarmory, the Sky Armory. Everyoen knows of Skarm's famous physical walling ability thanks to base 140 def and awesome typing, but ti also has a passable base 80 attack and 70 speed. This led me to the creation of this set.


Adamant @ (Apicot/Hondew (as you can't accidently end up using a hondew berry)) Berry
252 Atk/ 252 Spd/ 4 HP
Swords Dance
Drill Peck
Steel Wing
Natural Gift

Why natural gift you may ask? Well, Skarm is a big magnezone magnet (lol, pun). When Skarm comes in on something it walls, then swords dances on the switch, magnezone is often what comes in, and with Natural gift it is in for a surprise. Skarm with 252 Speed is going to outspeed all not + Speed nature magnezone, and assuming max def/hp with a + def nature hit for:
Damage: 366 - 431
Damage: 106.40% - 125.29%That's a guarenteed OHKO. Now, say you don't want to risk eating your berry. On the analysis the recommended zone runs no more than 172 HP, no def and modest, so its still going after our hero, and taking:
Damage: 434 - 510
Damage: 133.95% - 157.41%!
It's dead as a post, even if you use the less powerfull hondew berry (which only does 93.6-109.9 on max/max positive nature zone, still a probably OHKO).

So, with Natural Gift Skarm counters its biggest counter, simply by being bait. Base 80 attack still hurts things after a SD, and Skarm is more than bulky enough to get one off.

Skarm Vs T-Tar
SD Steel Wing vs Max/Max +Nature
61.39% - 72.28%
SD Steel Wing vs Boah
83.66% - 98.27%
Vs CB Set
94.94% - 111.52%
Vs Dancer
98.83% - 116.08%
All 2HKOs with a good chance of OHKOing
Without SD
max/max
24.01% - 28.22%
Boah
32.43% - 38.12%
CB
36.80% - 43.26%
Dance
38.30% - 45.03%
None 2HKOs (barring crits), so hopefully you can get an SD up, because.


Now, What does TTar do back? Its best bet would be either Stone Edge or Boah's Ice Beam or Thunderbolt
CB Edge
76.10% - 89.71%
Owch, that hurts, but fortunately our hero is faster
Boah Punch
42.28% - 49.63%
Hurts, but not a 2HKO
Boah Beam
39.34% - 46.32%
Again, not a 2HKO
Thunderbolt
Damage: 78.68% - 92.65%
2HKO, but our hero is faster

TTar has a pretty good chance of 2HKOing out hero.

TTar is pretty bulky though, so after a SD you can realy hurt some sweepers, and steel/flying has some pretty nice coverage. You can hit SE Infernape (though you have to predict the switch in, as ape will destroy our hero with random fire attack), weavile, and ttar, while only not beign able to hit Empoleon at least neutral. Unfortunately Skarm can't take special attacks, particularly without HP EVs, so he has to run away from special attackers he can't outspeed and kill.

After a Dance Steel Wing does 135.05% - 159.11%after SD, drillpeck 76.98% - 90.72% to Weavile, OH and 2HKOs respectively, while vile does 32.72% - 38.24% with an Ice punch (with Jolly as recomended by the strategy), a 3HKO, letting Skarm set up and kill with steel wing.


Also, After a Dance Skarm does 50.00% - 58.87% to standard bliss, a shaky 2HKO that leaves her locked in softboiling, though Tbolt does 55.88% - 65.81%, a definite 2HKO. So, bliss after a Dance is a game of chicken, with Bliss coming out ahead more often than not.

More calcs are probably in order, but to me at least on paper Swords Dance skarm looks decent. He can easily get a dance off coming on on his myriad of resistances and immunities.

 

[Ambitions]

if i was to battle this thing it would totally catch me off guard and prob take out one or maybe two of my poke. deff my magnezone which i love sending in on skarm

if this became popular thought it could be easily countered by thins like slowbro, suicune, hippowdon and a bunch of other poke.

if your good at pulling of the element of surprise, id say its worth a shot. but its not doing too well once the cat is out of the bag.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

Heatran?

 

[Larvitar Star]

Yeah I use a SD Skarmory, they're great fun.

I think on the analysis, someone suggested only enough speed to beat 252 spd Adamant Ttar, and pump the rest into Hit points.

Roost may actually prove more useful then Natural Gift, as magnezone isn't THAT common and roost lets you heal off damage after killing that Ttar.

Even Stealth Rock/Spikes could fit on this set, letting you do something useful early in the battle instead of just getting walled by Hippo and Swampert.

 

[chip_the_fox]

have you checked the analysis 1st b/c Sd skarm is listed as follows:

SET]
name: Swords Dancer
move 1: Drill Peck
move 2: Steel Wing / Rock Slide / Agility
move 3: Roost
move 4: Swords Dance
item: Leftovers / Shed Shell
nature: Jolly
evs: 252hp/72atk/184spd

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>While it certainly won't be seen as often as the defensive sets, this has the potential to be a pretty nasty set. Skarmory gained Swords Dance in D/P, which gives him the potential to actually be an offensive threat when combined with the fact he's pretty beefy.</p>

<p>Drill Peck covers the damage dealing, getting STAB and not being resisted by a whole lot. Brave Bird isn't really an option given with boosted attack you'd be taking a lot of damage.</p>

<p>Roost gives Skarmory recovery and makes him far more durable, and with his decent speed he'll be able to take advantage of Roost's removal of his Flying type a bit more than the slower defensive sets. </p>

<p>The general idea of this set is to switch in on something that can't do anything to you and Swords Dance up. The EVs provided for this set are assuming you are using Steel Wing. If you use Steel Wing it'll give you some more offensive power, letting you lay the smack down on things like Tyranitar and Rhyperior. </p>

<p>If you decide to use Agility, you will forego a wider spread of damage for being able to potentially sweep with Skarm if you get both attack and speed boosted. If you use Agility you should use a 196HP/208Atk/104Spd Adamant Skarmory instead. The 104 Speed will bring your speed to 202, which will hit 404 with one agility, allowing you to outspeed Adamant Choice Scarf Heracross and OHKO it with Drill Peck.</p>

 

[bulbasauresrec]

I think the thing that sets this apart is the Natural Gift. SD Skarm has already been given mention before so i think this post should be more on Natural Gift.

 

[astrohawke]

I don't see what there is to discuss. Sword dance skarm is a viable set and is already listed in the analysis.

The reason we don't see much of it is because it's much more useful as a phazer, spiker and physical wall. There are few who can replace it in all its above rules while there are plenty who are able to sword dance better and are therefore higher priority considerations for the team if it's in need of a sweeper.

Its one saving grace is to surprise kill magnezone which are usually few and far between anyway. Most pokemon can surprise kill a counter if they ran gimmicky non standard moves though.

In turn it is walled by its own physical wall counterpart instead of magnezone and pretty much the same threats it faces as a wall will still force it out as a sweeper. Basically any faster fire/electric attacker as it comes in on the sword dance.

I think the thing that sets this apart is the Natural Gift. SD Skarm has already been given mention before so i think this post should be more on Natural Gift.

Natural gift 70 BP ground attack is already given in "other options" in the analysis.

 

[Drakhun]

have you checked the analysis 1st b/c Sd skarm is listed as follows:

I have looked at the analyisi, I was initially thinking CB skarm, untill I saw Swords Dance. However, jolly isn't as good as adamant I think, even with jolly it won't be outspeeding much, and Natural Gift doesn't get much mention.

Skarm would probably run away from heatran, though Natural Gift would take care of non-scarfed versions (if ti hand't used it already)

 

[Thorns]

People say that the recoil from Brave Bird is too large, but considering that people will figure out your strategy the moment you use Swords Dance, you're not surviving long, since Pokemon like faster Electric/Fire types will come in and ruin your strategy so you might as well deal more damage whilst you're alive.

 

[cim]

What an original set, man. You basically took the analysis SD set, EVd him awfully so it can't take more than 2 hits, removed recovery, and gave him Natural Gift, a move mentioned in Other Options, when you could just use Shed Shell so instead of wasting an item slot AND a move slot you just waste one.

Basically, you took something awesome and shit all over it, making it look like a "discovery" that you made when everyone has been using a better SD Skarm for ages.

Now, how to really do SD Skarm: Max his HP, outspeed Tyranitar, then pour into Attack. That way you can still be somewhat of a wall unlike your set, you still own Tyranitar with Steel Wing, you still own lots of things with Drill Peck, etc. Then you have a free move slot to run Roost, which you can use to outstall Magnezone if you're stupid enough to not use Shed Shell.

 

[cim]

What an original set, man. You basically took the analysis SD set, EVd him awfully so it can't take more than 2 hits, removed recovery, and gave him Natural Gift, a move mentioned in Other Options, when you could just use Shed Shell so instead of wasting an item slot AND a move slot you just waste one.

Basically, you took something awesome and made it worse, making it look like a "discovery" that you made when everyone cool has been using a better SD Skarm for ages.

Now, how to really do SD Skarm: Max his HP, outspeed Tyranitar, then pour into Attack. That way you can still be somewhat of a wall unlike your set, you still own Tyranitar with Steel Wing, you still own lots of things with Drill Peck, etc. Then you have a free move slot to run Roost, which you can use to outstall Magnezone if you're stupid enough to not use Shed Shell.

 

[cim]

Uh, mods, I can't edit out the "shit on" like I wanted to, but somehow I just ended up quoting myself. ANyone care to help me out? Sorry.

 

[Phiphler]

Its an interesting set, but I just don't trust Natural Gift. It's single use, and if you mispredict you are phucked.

I would enjoy seeing it in action though.

 

[Steinhauser]

Yes, it's been thought of. But it hasn't been DONE. I think he's onto something, give him a chance.

I know from experience that the element of surprise can really fuck with your opponent's head. 90% of the teams I fight are the same old standards, the same boring pokemon cycling through their motions like clockwork. Stick an unconventional move, item or EV spread on a pokemon and most of the time, the enemy will be completely baffled and start making stupid mistakes, or presumptions they'll live to regret.

I can see this working. It follows the same principle as the Gliscor I run - Jolly, max speed, max attack, Swords Dance and sweep. No Baton Pass, no SR, no Knock Off. It (or something similar) is listed in the analysis, but I have never seen a Gliscor to this day that isn't the average bulky one.

And the same goes for SD Skarm. I've certainly never seen one, and I see dozens of Skarms a day. They must be pretty rare, and after fighting a hundred spiking, phazing walls, a sweepy Skarm will catch your ass off guard.

Yes, Skarm does wall much better than it sweeps, but that's the only reason a sweeping set can exist - because it's a goofy idea, it's rare, and therefore it will catch you off guard.

Of course, you'll need tact and prediction to run a set like this. That's why mediocre players shy away from the idea. The old clockwork standards are such a comfort, because you always know what move to play and what counters what. And that just leaves you unprepared for a set like this.

As for the set itself - I think it needs some fine-tuning. Roost WOULD be a boon if you can find room for it; if you can get more than one SD up, you'll easily OHKO the 2HKO threats you mentioned.

 

[astrohawke]

Yes, it's been thought of. But it hasn't been DONE. I think he's onto something, give him a chance.

I know from experience that the element of surprise can really fuck with your opponent's head. 90% of the teams I fight are the same old standards, the same boring pokemon cycling through their motions like clockwork. Stick an unconventional move, item or EV spread on a pokemon and most of the time, the enemy will be completely baffled and start making stupid mistakes, or presumptions they'll live to regret.

I can see this working. It follows the same principle as the Gliscor I run - Jolly, max speed, max attack, Swords Dance and sweep. No Baton Pass, no SR, no Knock Off. It (or something similar) is listed in the analysis, but I have never seen a Gliscor to this day that isn't the average bulky one.

And the same goes for SD Skarm. I've certainly never seen one, and I see dozens of Skarms a day. They must be pretty rare, and after fighting a hundred spiking, phazing walls, a sweepy Skarm will catch your ass off guard.

Yes, Skarm does wall much better than it sweeps, but that's the only reason a sweeping set can exist - because it's a goofy idea, it's rare, and therefore it will catch you off guard.

Of course, you'll need tact and prediction to run a set like this. That's why mediocre players shy away from the idea. The old clockwork standards are such a comfort, because you always know what move to play and what counters what. And that just leaves you unprepared for a set like this.

As for the set itself - I think it needs some fine-tuning. Roost WOULD be a boon if you can find room for it; if you can get more than one SD up, you'll easily OHKO the 2HKO threats you mentioned.

To be honest any gimmicky non-standard set has the potential to surprise kill one of its counters and throw your opponent off guard.

The difference is that some non-standard sets actually achieve something before the surprise wears off. For example, I might use sword dance heracross instead of the very common choice band/scarf ones you see everywhere. It will definitely surprise them when they switch in gliscor and it starts dancing up or if they use protect expecting to scout its move before you switch.

Think about what usually switches into skarm. Fast electric and fire types or those that carry electric and fire attacks. Stuff like infernape, zapdos, heatran, jolteon, starmie etc...Do these things care that you've just sword danced as they come in? No because they will still proceed to OHKO you while you have just revealed your set to them and are forced to switch out.

The only thing it does achieve is manage to surprise kill magnezone if your opponent happens to be carrying one. Outside of that it's just another sword dance user with mediocre speed and attack with poor coverage and a wasted moveslot for a 1 time use move (which if you didn't have would mean it would be completely not extraordinary).

There are an a ton of better users of sword dance/move/move/move. As for something with sword dance/move/move/recover I would use scizor over skarm any day.

 

[cim]

"it's been thought of, but never been done"

What the hell does that mean? Not only is that impossible to prove, there's no real difference between "thought of" and "done" in the age of Shoddy and stuff. If it's on the analysis, it's not your idea and you didn't think of it.

 

[Amandabynes]

I tried the SD set in the analysis first with Shed Shell, then I didn't fight one single Magnezone. So I thought "what the " and replaced it with Leftovers, only to fight 2 Magneszones back to back. So I just gave up.

Anyway I didn't find it to workout very well, since they would usually send out a faster Electric/Fire type either the turn I danced or the turn after.

 

[Blue Harvest]

"it's been thought of, but never been done"

EVERYTHING has been thought of before. Even Smogon analysis was thought of by others. He means although he is not the only one to think of this, he is one of the very few to use it.

What the hell does that mean? Not only is that impossible to prove, there's no real difference between "thought of" and "done" in the age of Shoddy and stuff. If it's on the analysis, it's not your idea and you didn't think of it.

This is the set I use...

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Impish
252 HP / 236 Defense / 20 Speed

Drill Peck
Whirlwind
Roost
Swords Dance

It can beat standard Blissey easily. It walls everything standard Skarm walls, and can actually pull off a late game sweep.

 

[Superbro]

This is the set I use...

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Impish
252 HP / 236 Defense / 20 Speed

Drill Peck
Whirlwind
Roost
Swords Dance

It can beat standard Blissey easily. It walls everything standard Skarm walls, and can actually pull off a late game sweep.

People you fight are dumb if they leave blissey in on skarmory. blissey is on skarm = mey set up spikes and rocks with little to no resistance at all pl0x.

 

[Stormfang]

Heatran?

Natural Gift?

 

[Drakhun]

About Heatran: After a Dance Jolly (you have to be jolly to outspeed any Heatran) Natural Gift (your only hope) does 144.05% - 169.35% to Specs Heatran, and would probably OHKO the bulkier Rest-talker, which is the only tran Adamant can outspeed. However, you're still playing chicken hoping for not encountering the most common scarftran.

 

[Midnight Anus]

People you fight are dumb if they leave blissey in on skarmory. blissey is on skarm = mey set up spikes and rocks with little to no resistance at all pl0x.

You have to kill it eventually. Last poke Blisseys can be a bitch to kill for a defensive team, or once most of your sweepers are dead.

 

[Automatic]

What an original set, man. You basically took the analysis SD set, EVd him awfully so it can't take more than 2 hits, removed recovery, and gave him Natural Gift, a move mentioned in Other Options, when you could just use Shed Shell so instead of wasting an item slot AND a move slot you just waste one.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

First time I've seen this thread. SD Skarmory... not a bad thought.

 

[Kingdrom]

What an original set, man. You basically took the analysis SD set, EVd him awfully so it can't take more than 2 hits, removed recovery, and gave him Natural Gift, a move mentioned in Other Options, when you could just use Shed Shell so instead of wasting an item slot AND a move slot you just waste one.

While Chris is me is being harsh here, i'd have to admit i'm going to agree. Any pokemon can use natural gift. If you're going to use natural gift, then at least use salac berry, for that gives you a power 80 fighting move. It also isn't completely useless as a berry itself. It still makes heatran and magnezone think twice about switching in. It beats up tyranitar and weavile even better- With that ev spread, CB Weavile is a guaranteed 2hko with ice punch. Keeping weavile in mind, I would use a spread of 192 hp, 228 speed, and 88 attack, with a jolly nature. This way, he won't lose to weavile, who he should easily wall.

Any SD Skarm NEEDS Roost. With only 270 hp, he isn't as bulky as he should be. Natural Gift is only of use on Porygon2, imo. I appreciate that you put some time into your first post, though.