Other Current Metagame trends

[TaBuu]

I've really seen a decrease in usage of Mega Mawile. It is a really great wallbreaker, but it is too damn slow. People have caught onto this, it was really popular, and now it just isn't seen really. At least in the battles I've been playing.

I'm going to have to disagree with you right here.
Mega Mawile is just another severely underused threat that is more than capable of being top OU material. By virtue of its typing alone, Mega Mawile is extremely potent as it can set up on things such as Lati@s, Tyranitar, Skarmory, Banded Talonflame and Outrage locked Dragon Types just to name a few.
With a great physical bulk and access to Sucker Punch, Speed isn't Mega Mawile's largest detriment to say the least.
Mega Mawile is also dangerous because its SD and SubPunch set require two different groups of counters which is something not too many teams can afford to carry.
So to be honest, Mega Mawile's usage has nothing to do with its capabilities or flaws in OU. It revolves more around the fact that people want to carry a different Mega for different team purposes. trust me if mega mawile didn't take up a mega slot, mega mawile would be the next genesect of ou in terms of usage.

 

[JebusChrist]

I'm going to have to disagree with you right here.
Mega Mawile is just another severely underused threat that is more than capable of being top OU material. By virtue of its typing alone, Mega Mawile is extremely potent as it can set up on things such as Lati@s, Tyranitar, Skarmory, Banded Talonflame and Outrage locked Dragon Types just to name a few.
With a great physical bulk and access to Sucker Punch, Speed isn't Mega Mawile's largest detriment to say the least.
Mega Mawile is also dangerous because its SD and SubPunch set require two different groups of counters which is something not too many teams can afford to carry.
So to be honest, Mega Mawile's usage has nothing to do with its capabilities or flaws in OU. It revolves more around the fact that people want to carry a different Mega for different team purposes. trust me if mega mawile didn't take up a mega slot, mega mawile would be the next genesect of ou in terms of usage.

you could probably say that about most megas tbh

although I agree Mega Maw is really strong

 

[WebBowser]

At +2, mega maw 2hkos pretty much anything that doesn't resist it, while having enough bulk to not be revenge killed. She is essentially a slower, bulkier mega kang.

A brief demonstration of what +2 megamaw is capable of.

VS talonflame

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 436-513 (146.3 - 172.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 367-432 (123.1 - 144.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 88-104 (28.9 - 34.2%) -- 2.3% chance to 3HKO

tflame has to hit with BB at least thrice to KO, +2 mawile only needs to hit one. While it is ultimately a prediction battle, it is one that is massively in mawile's favor.

VS mega pinsir

252 Atk Mega Pinsir Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 206-244 (67.7 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 282-332 (103.6 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 475-559 (174.6 - 205.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

mega pinsir actually fairs worse in many ways. QA has little to no chance of breaking through mawile, and as always, mawile only needs to hit once.

VS heatran

4 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 224-266 (73.6 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 313-369 (81 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 300-354 (98.6 - 116.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

oh hey look, something resembling a check. While both heatrans are totally screwed if there is so much as SR on the field, offensive spreads can ohko them most of the time. If heat is feeling particularly ballzy, he can try spamming non attacking moves to PP stall sucker punch, but that's a huge risk and could lead to mawile setting up further, and +4 mega maw can pretty much OHKO the entire tier with sucker punch.

VS Mega Houndoom

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Houndoom: 179-211 (61.3 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Houndoom Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 324-384 (106.5 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This... actually works surprisingly well. Even if SR is up, megadoom can still take a +2 sucker punch and ohkos back, if only barely. Mega doom is pretty fast though, so it can be a little difficult to revenge even at that low of hp, but it's better then a near dead heatran I guess.

VS Charizard

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 301-355 (101 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 404-476 (135.5 - 159.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 301-355 (83.6 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Well... If SR is down, you're screwed period, and bulkyzard X will prolly kill himself with flare blitz unless he's running fire punch.

So yeah, who wants to try to figure out what can stand up to this beast? Heat and megadoom is the only one that even comes close from my search. Sheesh, at least cofag could counter mega kanga, this is ridiculous!

 

[jpw234]

Skarm can phaze it, Quag can Haze away its boosts and fish for a Scald burn, Lando-T can Intimidate on the SD and then kill it with EQ. Mega-Mawile is good, sure, but it needs a lot of team support.

I didn't see any Keldeo when I first started playing X/Y, but it's starting to come back again. In 5th gen it pretty much ran Scarf or Specs with the occasional EB bluff set, but now it almost exclusively runs either CM/Lefties or an LO set. I'm not quite sure why that is, but there you go.

 

[Halcyon.]

Skarm can phaze it, Quag can Haze away its boosts and fish for a Scald burn, Lando-T can Intimidate on the SD and then kill it with EQ. Mega-Mawile is good, sure, but it needs a lot of team support.

I didn't see any Keldeo when I first started playing X/Y, but it's starting to come back again. In 5th gen it pretty much ran Scarf or Specs with the occasional EB bluff set, but now it almost exclusively runs either CM/Lefties or an LO set. I'm not quite sure why that is, but there you go.

Just want to point out that none of those Pokemon are sure fire counters to Mega Mawile. Landorus-T gets worn down by Play Rough very easily, Skarm gets beaten by Focus Punch and can't do shit back to Mega Mawile anyway. I don't know what made you think Quag beats it, it's cleanly 2HKOed by its main STAB move. Very few things can survive two hits from Mega Mawile. Hippowdon being one of the few that is only 3HKOed. Mega Mawile is still an incredibly potent stall breaker.

 

[Impractical]

At +2, mega maw 2hkos pretty much anything that doesn't resist it, while having enough bulk to not be revenge killed. She is essentially a slower, bulkier mega kang.

A brief demonstration of what +2 megamaw is capable of.

VS talonflame

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 436-513 (146.3 - 172.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 367-432 (123.1 - 144.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 88-104 (28.9 - 34.2%) -- 2.3% chance to 3HKO

tflame has to hit with BB at least thrice to KO, +2 mawile only needs to hit one. While it is ultimately a prediction battle, it is one that is massively in mawile's favor.

VS mega pinsir

252 Atk Mega Pinsir Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 206-244 (67.7 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 282-332 (103.6 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 475-559 (174.6 - 205.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

mega pinsir actually fairs worse in many ways. QA has little to no chance of breaking through mawile, and as always, mawile only needs to hit once.

VS heatran

4 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 224-266 (73.6 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 313-369 (81 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 300-354 (98.6 - 116.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

oh hey look, something resembling a check. While both heatrans are totally screwed if there is so much as SR on the field, offensive spreads can ohko them most of the time. If heat is feeling particularly ballzy, he can try spamming non attacking moves to PP stall sucker punch, but that's a huge risk and could lead to mawile setting up further, and +4 mega maw can pretty much OHKO the entire tier with sucker punch.

VS Mega Houndoom

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Houndoom: 179-211 (61.3 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Houndoom Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 324-384 (106.5 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This... actually works surprisingly well. Even if SR is up, megadoom can still take a +2 sucker punch and ohkos back, if only barely. Mega doom is pretty fast though, so it can be a little difficult to revenge even at that low of hp, but it's better then a near dead heatran I guess.

VS Charizard

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 301-355 (101 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 404-476 (135.5 - 159.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 301-355 (83.6 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Well... If SR is down, you're screwed period, and bulkyzard X will prolly kill himself with flare blitz unless he's running fire punch.

So yeah, who wants to try to figure out what can stand up to this beast? Heat and megadoom is the only one that even comes close from my search. Sheesh, at least cofag could counter mega kanga, this is ridiculous!

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Aggron: 79-93 (22.9 - 27%) -- 98.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
heavy slam ohkos mawile if aggron invests in attack

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 95-112 (28.4 - 33.5%) -- 96.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
skarm can phaze boosts

mawile is a will o wisp bait, mawile is not that bulky either, things which are faster and resist sucker punch can kill mawile easily

sure mawile is good, but it does have its flaws

 

[WebBowser]

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Aggron: 79-93 (22.9 - 27%) -- 98.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
heavy slam ohkos mawile if aggron invests in attack

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 95-112 (28.4 - 33.5%) -- 96.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
skarm can phaze boosts

mawile is a will o wisp bait, mawile is not that bulky either, things which are faster and resist sucker punch can kill mawile easily

sure mawile is good, but it does have its flaws

Will-O-Wisp from what? Skarm and aggron are notable counters for non sub-punch or fire fang varients, but neither run WoW. There are some faster mons that can get a WoW off before dieing, but that's essentially just negating huge power, a base 105 at +2 is still nothing to sneeze at (it does triple the things that can check it though).

Lesse here, faster bulky mons that resist sucker punch, let me look those up real quick...

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 390-462 (96.5 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 236-278 (77.6 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

that's not even +2, you better be praying to lord helix that thing has some prior damage.

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 270-318 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 608-716 (188.2 - 221.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

one of the strongest non stab EQs in the game, not even above a 50% chance to ohko.

252+ SpA Togekiss Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 260-306 (85.5 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 516-608 (137.9 - 162.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Yeah, resisting sucker punch and being faster != mega mawile check, for it's dual stab happens to hit the two types that resist it super effectively. You need to be able to resist sucker punch AND hit it with a strong super effective STAB (meaning not Krookadile). And yes, it has to be a strong super effective stab, not some uninvested lava plume or EQ BS.

Btw, note how mawile doesn't even need to be at +2 to KO any of these guys?

 

[Ajwf]

Probably because fairy covers dark's resists. But Heatran, for example, Rotom-wash, even some variants of Talonflame all can simply willowisp Mawile and mawile can do nothing but try to hit them for non-stab (Sub punch is an issue but it's really situational). Those are just the top usage ones I can think of. There are a bunch of good ground types to crush mawile as well (Lando-t, Gliscor both come to mind... Hippowdon should be passable, but slow) and in general, mawile is simply too slow. The other issue is the fact that the main stab is inaccurate, making mawile's speed a true issue if it does miss. That gamble simply is multiplied by the slower speed meaning the enemy gets a second hit off which most likely will KO.

With all the quagsires running around, I'm still amazed I haven't seen mega gyarados rise in usage. Dragon dance is a potent sweep boosting move, coupled with Gyara's EQ/Ice/Water coverage, there isn't much he doesn't destroy after boosting. Even not boosting on quagsire is ok, because you can choose to lure Quagsire in by Dragon dancing as Gyarados' standard form or set up on another pokemon and simply not be bothered by quagsire's presence.

 

[WebBowser]

I'll grant that WoW heatran and WoW Tflame would work simply because they have the good fortune of resisting Mawile's dual stab and do not need to attack it, therefore granting psudo sucker punch immunity. Heat in particular can pretty much stall out mawile due to quadra resisting mawile's dual stab. Talonflame basically turns into a prediction fight because if mawile SDs again, it essentially turns into the situation I posted above, but it's much more in tflames favor then before due to the necessity of that extra boost, giving tflame a window of opportunity to KO it.

Rotom wash, on the other hand.....

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power burned Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 191-225 (62.8 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 129-153 (42.4 - 50.3%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after burn damage
4 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 82-97 (26.9 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage

That's a heck of a lot of damage to take just to get a burn off, and pain split isn't that helpful since mawile's hp isn't that high. Remember that rotom-w will probably need to take a hit in order to get that burn off, so he needs 3 turns to kill mawile while mawile only needs 2. Rotom-W is no counter and barely a check in my book.

As for ground type walls like Gliscor and Hippo, unless you are running attack investment, good luck securing the OHKO on mega maw. Not even a fully invested Krookadile can OHKO her. Calcs for your pleasure.

VS Gliscor

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 358-423 (101.1 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 170-204 (55.9 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

not even close...

VS Hippowdon

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 357-420 (85 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
4 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 198-234 (65.1 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I'd almost call this a check if it weren't for the fact that mega maw outspeeds poor hippo, meaning that 2hko is perfectly acceptable here. Iron head even has flinch chance, so there's a small chance that megamaw comes out completely unscathed.

VS Lando-T

252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 320-380 (105.2 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 270-318 (70.6 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Yay, a solid mega mawile check has been found!

Sooo out of all the pokemon I've checked, I got megadoom, offensive bulky lando-T, and defensive heatran as "solid" mawile checks. Defensive tflame may also work, though that's kinda risky imo (SR weakness is a *****). I guess breloom could outspeed and put the thing to sleep, but one good prediction on the enemy's part and sleep mod clause rears it's head, taking away that particular check (needless to say that breloom ain't swapping in anything other than a sucker punch or SD).

In case you are wondering why I'm assuming +2 for all of these, it's because mega maw has 2 very helpful immunities and loads of useful resists that it can easily abuse for easy switch ins (hello quadra resist to u-turn). Even at +0, it can easily force out a large portion of the tier, because without an SE attack, you're looking at a 2hko at absolute best, and even a decent number of SE attacks are 2hkos (not even an EQ from jolly banded terrakion can gaurentee the OHKO). Because of how threatening it is, getting the +2 is fairly easy against a majority of teams providing the time is right, because most teams have at least one pokemon that is a free switch in for maw. Examples include conkeldurr, lati twins, non EQ ttar, many, many choice locked mons, espeon, breloom if sleep mod clause is active, mandibuzz, pretty much any other toxic staller, etc etc, and all of these are at least OU viable.

 

[Ajwf]

Venusaur-mega got ignored, eh? He's a counter I've relied on, and skarm's a good check. Another issue would then be the prevelance of Zard-Y/X. If you're looking for a check, you aren't going to let Mawile mega get to +2 without taking good damage, so I'd point out that both Zards KO mawile, as does Garchomp-mega, Talonflame's band set on flare blitz, Mamoswine, Krookodile (This just came up on the calc I'm running), Manectric-mega, Infernape, Excadrill, Volcarona (who Mawile should fear attacking even with sucker punch due to burn chance), Hydregion, Arcanine and rotom-heat. All this and more have an OHKO on mawile with ease. Of these, all but Krookodile and Arcanine can be said to be 'common' enough to have to prepare for them on teams. Arcanine gets intimidate, stab resist and willowisp, Hydregion resists that sucker punch, KOs with Fire blast, Manectric has overheat and intimidate. These are very real and potent threats to mawile, even in UU. The meta just has a good deal of faster attackers to limit what Mawile can do, and remember that people try to devote megas to this 'unstoppable sweeper/slayer' so mawile's speed may scare them away coupled with all these easy threats.

Indirectly, mawile may be hurt by Aegislash. People prepare religiously for this pokemon, and the basic attacks people use to hit it are the same, special fire and EQ, given king shield deterring dark and even physical ghost attacks. This means that most Aegislash checks are converted well to attack mawile. It also would be hard to justify the overlapping ground/fire weaknesses on two teams, and both are ridiculously slow. I wouldn't be surprised if their roles were basically the same.

I think Baton Pass can be mentioned as a trend in more detail... I've run into it a ridiculous amount lately. I haven't quite understood why people WANT to play baton pass, as I'm guessing it isn't seriously effective in the upper ladder, but in the middle ladder, it seems to be quite common... Espeon's boosts to Stored Power ignore Quagsire's Unaware well enough that you have to stop it before it gets over to espeon. Even then, people seem to run the same consistent team of Baton Passers that became overly common during the last suspect test. It is somewhat effective, but you're asking to get hacked... or beaten by any manaphy/fast booster in OU. Manaphy grabs the initial tail glow boost on the opponent's lead (Minus smeargle) and it is good game... Probably a product of manaphy not being common. The issue is probably a lack of preparations that allow for baton pass teams to be common... probably a trend until the meta tightens up. I have a hard time believing baton pass can be a legitimate strategy if it remains this wide seen... It works best as a less-seen gimmick and would fail if people started preparing for it.

 

[WebBowser]

Physically defensive megasaur with EQ barely counters megamaw. Megamaw is 3 shotted by megasaur's EQ, while megasaur is 2 shotted by +0 iron head if SR is up, 3 shotted otherwise.

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 154-183 (42.3 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Mega Venusaur Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 120-142 (39.4 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

megazard X and Y, as I've shown above, are cleanly ohko'd by +2 sucker punch even without SR, except for bulkyzard-X, who will likely kill himself with flare blitz anyway. Garchomp mega can check, as he barely survives +2 sucker punch (very small OHKO chance if SR is up) and can easily ohko back. I've already discussed tflame in some depth, against non WoW variants it comes down to a prediction fight that is heavily in the mawile's favor. Mamoswine can only check if it's at full HP, and even then non sash variants have a strong chance of dieing to +2 sucker punch. Krookadile needs a life orb / band to gaurentee the OHKO (the previous calc I was running lefties krook for some reason). Mega manec is easily KO'd by +1 sucker punch. Infernape is a solid check, though he will take some heavy damage from flare blitz recoil and +2 sucker punch if mawile stays in. Excadrill is cleanly ohko'd by +2 sucker punch. Volcrona is also cleanly ohko'd by +2 sucker punch (is sacing your own sweeper worth the 30% burn chance?). Scarfed Hydriegon actually fails(if timid, modest scarfed hydreigon has a 25% chance to ohko) to OHKO mawile with fire blast, and gets completely owned by play rough. Arcanine is a solid check. Rotom-heat is also OHKO'd by +2 sucker punch, but given that they usually run WoW, this is essentially identical (maybe a tad bit better) to the WoW talonflame vs megamaw matchup, unless the rotom-H is scarfed, in which case it's pretty screwed.

Since this debate has been going on for a while, quick recap.

Counters(can switch into any move a +0 mega mawile can throw at it, including SD, and win (winning from here on out is defined as megamaw dieing/being forced out, regardless of the ultimate fate of the attacker)):

defensive heatran with WoW and/or roar
Skarmery(whirlwind)
Mega Aggron(only EQ or heavy slam varients, dragon tail don't do crap, mega maw has a small chance to 2hko with +2 sucker punch tho)
Arcanine

Solid Checks (if given a free switch into a mega mawile, at +2 or +0, it will win):

Mega Houndoom
LO/Banded Krookadile
Lando-T
Mega Garchomp
Infernape

Shakey Checks (can win vs megamawile at +2 if given a free switch in, but either dies if SR is up and/or relies on winning a prediction war, or require sleep mod clause to not be active):

Rotom-H
Talonflame
Mamoswine
Volcrona(volc can predict SP and quiver dance to avoid dieing, and kill on a predicted not-sucker punch move)
Excadrill(SD variants, scarfed variants are totally screwed)
LO/specs Hydreigon
bulky megazard x
Megasaur
Breloom
Vivillian
other "fast" users of sleep powder/spore

Very Shakey Checks (can win vs megamawile at +0 if given a free switch in or if megamaw has taken some kind of prior damage prior to the swap in (more then just SR)):

Rotom-W
Terrakion
Mega TTar
Gliscor
Togekiss
Both megazards
Hippowdon
mega pinsir

Meh, 4 counters and 5 solid checks. Not unstoppable (thank goodness), but outside of lando-T, skarm and defensive heatran, most of these folks are kinda on the obscure side. Also, most of these folks are also SR weak. further complicating things.

*edit*

forgot about sleep status. Including breloom and moving up megasaur a bit.

*edit 2*

I did not run any calcs for multiple mawile movesets. I focused solely on a moveset consisting of iron head, play rough, sucker punch and SD. It should be noted that mawile has an amazing movepool with things like the elemental punches, stone miss, brick break, subs, stockpile, pain split and focus punch (no EQ thankfully). The above list was only calced for said above moveset, you have been warned!

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Venusaur-mega got ignored, eh? He's a counter I've relied on, and skarm's a good check. Another issue would then be the prevelance of Zard-Y/X. If you're looking for a check, you aren't going to let Mawile mega get to +2 without taking good damage, so I'd point out that both Zards KO mawile, as does Garchomp-mega, Talonflame's band set on flare blitz, Mamoswine, Krookodile (This just came up on the calc I'm running), Manectric-mega, Infernape, Excadrill, Volcarona (who Mawile should fear attacking even with sucker punch due to burn chance), Hydregion, Arcanine and rotom-heat. All this and more have an OHKO on mawile with ease. Of these, all but Krookodile and Arcanine can be said to be 'common' enough to have to prepare for them on teams. Arcanine gets intimidate, stab resist and willowisp, Hydregion resists that sucker punch, KOs with Fire blast, Manectric has overheat and intimidate. These are very real and potent threats to mawile, even in UU. The meta just has a good deal of faster attackers to limit what Mawile can do, and remember that people try to devote megas to this 'unstoppable sweeper/slayer' so mawile's speed may scare them away coupled with all these easy threats.

Most of that stuff can't survive a +2 Sucker Punch. Y-zard can't. X-zard can't unless it's a defensive set. Mega Garchomp can survive Sucker Punch (normal Garchomp can't) but loses nearly all of its health. Talonflame, Volcarona, Excadrill are all OHKOed by +2 Sucker too and Mega Man can't survive a +1 sucker punch. Arcanine, Infernape, specs Hydriegon and Krookodile all can though, though they're all mostly irrelevant threats. Rotom-H can burn Mawile, but there's little reason to use it over Rotom-W; plus, Mawile can speed creep Rotom-W.

Mega Venusaur is a good counter but falls to ones with Iron Head. Skarmory can't do shit except phaze it out, and it's OHKOed by +2 Fire Fang.

Indirectly, mawile may be hurt by Aegislash. People prepare religiously for this pokemon, and the basic attacks people use to hit it are the same, special fire and EQ, given king shield deterring dark and even physical ghost attacks. This means that most Aegislash checks are converted well to attack mawile. It also would be hard to justify the overlapping ground/fire weaknesses on two teams, and both are ridiculously slow. I wouldn't be surprised if their roles were basically the same.

Hardly. Mega Mawile and Aegislash are extremely different Pokemon, two weaknesses and pitiful speed is all they share.

Primarily, Mega Mawile's Sucker Punch is way stronger than Aegislash's Shadow Sneak (over 50% stronger, even if Aegislash has LO,) especially considering no good players run Swords Dance on Aegislash anymore. Most checks for Aegislash don't work well on Mawile because they'd have to eat a priority attack way stronger than anything Aegislash can do.

Also the #1 counter to Aegislash is Mandibuzz and Mawile just tears her apart.

 

[Zebstrika]

Bulky Moltres and Entei both can counter Mawile given that they are at full health and SR is not up.

Cofagrigus can switch in on any attack and Will-O-Wisp, and then walling +0 burned mawile without huge power is a piece of cake. Switching in on SD risks that Cofagrigus is KO'd and that will only result in loss of huge power.

Encore users can both switch in on SD or Sucker Punch, or revenge after something has just been sucker punched, and encore mawile for eternity, but mostly can't switch in on a real attack.

That's about all I can think of that hasn't been listed. There are a lot of pokemon that can take a +2 sucker punch and retaliate, but the counter attack (usually an earthquake) can't KO. Like Mega aggron, mega heracross, steelix, mega scizor (who can play around sucker punch for a few turns using bullet punch, forcing mawile to use resisted stabs), and 252/4 Magnezone just barely survives a sucker punch and can trap a weakened mawile.

 

[MudcrabDL]

I'm noticing that the meta now has evolved past Talonflame, as it was essentially obligated to do: the risk of priority Brave Bird meant that teams have to be able to take out birds reliably. This is making threats like Mega Pinsir far less reliable, due to the likes of Thundurus and Mega Manetric. Stone Edge is almost obligatory on so many bulky attackers like Garchomp and Tyranitar, though that isn't necessarily new for the latter. To retain Talons position in the metagame, U-turn has become very common on sets, and is a surefire bet on a cb set, to do significant damage to Tyranitar, removing his status as a sure counter. Mandibuzz still deals with most Talonflame very well, as the bulk up set has lost a fair bit of popularity, but both these threats are struggling a little in a meta that needs to take care of flying types: I feel this is one of the major reasons Pinsir is falling from popularity a little, too.

Unrelated, but I've been seeing more Suicune sets around: I'd say it's the second most common water type after Rotom, followed by Keldeo and then maybe Quagsire.

Aegislash sets are as always, evolving. I'm noticing an upsurge in Flash Cannon usage, presumably to punish Mandibuzz a little. I haven't yet seen the Sub Toxic set that has been mentioned, in my experience Aegislash has functioned as a mixed tank, usually with Shadow Ball, Flash Cannon and Sacred Sword.

 

[Sevifar]

Hydreigon is a fantastic check to M-Mawile if given a free switch (and provided it isn't above +2).
It either forces it out without taking damage or if M-Mawile decides to Sucker Punch, it dies.

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 179-211 (55 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 317-374 (104.2 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO

In fact Hydra is a pretty good poke in the meta right now, mostly due to its typing and synergy with such a large portion of the metagame. I've been wondering when its usage will increase, since it can check so many pokemon that are metagame-relevant (most notably Rotom-W, Talonflame and Aegislash).

Aegislash sets are as always, evolving. I'm noticing an upsurge in Flash Cannon usage, presumably to punish Mandibuzz a little. I haven't yet seen the Sub Toxic set that has been mentioned, in my experience Aegislash has functioned as a mixed tank, usually with Shadow Ball, Flash Cannon and Sacred Sword.

Quoted for supreme truth. I think the most common set is the Weakness policy one though. What's the sub toxic set?

 

[WebBowser]

Hydreigon is a fantastic check to M-Mawile if given a free switch (and provided it isn't above +2).
It either forces it out without taking damage or if M-Mawile decides to Sucker Punch, it dies.

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 179-211 (55 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 317-374 (104.2 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO

In fact Hydra is a pretty good poke in the meta right now, mostly due to its typing and synergy with such a large portion of the metagame. I've been wondering when its usage will increase, since it can check so many pokemon that are metagame-relevant (most notably Rotom-W, Talonflame and Aegislash).


Quoted for supreme truth. I think the most common set is the Weakness policy one though. What's the sub toxic set?

While it's certainly works as a check to megamaw (unless you like scarfed timid hydrei, which is screwed), it does'nt really check aeigis all that well tbh...

252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 257-304 (79.3 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 262-310 (80.6 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 44-52 (13.5 - 16%) -- possible 7HKO

When you factor in LO recoil, this means that aeigi can actually take the hit and KO back if it's fully invested in attack. For more special oriented sets...

0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 202-238 (62.1 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 33-40 (10.1 - 12.3%) -- possible 9HKO

Things are looking much better for hydrei. Hydrei is taking somewhere between 80-95% (remember, LO recoil), but it wins, if only barely.

specsdreigon has a decent chance to ohko, if you really want an aeigi check

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 270-318 (83.3 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

As for checking TFlame, he can only really swap into a tflame locked into Flare Blitz, he cannot take priority brave birds well at all. He can KO though if given the chance, relevant calcs.

252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 399-472 (133.8 - 158.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 234-276 (72 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 182-216 (56 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

He is by no means a counter, but he can revenge kill non-SD variants fine.

He checks rotom-w fine, and rotom-w can't really do anything back. Even trickscarf isn't that crippling since hydrei's most popular set is scarf, so even if you had something else, being scarfed isn't the worst thing ever. I'd actually call him a counter, as he really doesn't fear anything rotom-w can throw at him and has a chance to ohko physically defensive variants.

4 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 67-80 (20.6 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
4 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 42-51 (12.9 - 15.6%) -- possible 7HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 278-329 (91.4 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

sp defensive variants fare a fair bit better obv, but they still take a beating.

TL;DR I agree with all but aeigis, most hydreigons have a rough time with smogonshield.

 

[114]

Mega scizor is my answer to both azumarill and mega maw. I'd say counter

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Mega scizor is my answer to both azumarill and mega maw. I'd say counter

Fire Fang OHKOs Mega Scizor, and CB Waterfall 2HKOs.

 

[Sucker Lunch]

Question: What validates "mid/high Ladder". I was in the mid 1700s before my rank sorta vanished lol. I want to participate in the conversation but I don't want to say things if I don't have the stats to back them up.

 

[WhiteFluffyBunny]

Seen a lot of level 1 starters to lead. Slap a sash on and do as much damage then quick attack to finish off.

 

[Sevifar]

TL;DR I agree with all but aeigis, most hydreigons have a rough time with smogonshield.

You're right, and I actually knew about the Aegislash Calcs but for some reason it didnt click with my brain and I put Aegislash as a check. I've been using a bulky Hydra set with no speed investment which beats Aegislash every time, so in my brain Hydra > Aegislash right now.

252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 234-278 (72.2 - 85.8%)
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 262-310 (67.5 - 79.8%)
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 44-52 (11.3 - 13.4%)

WP Aegislash still sucks for you though.

Oh and as for Talonflame, Hydreigon isn't a counter, it only checks it, and you have to watch out for Non-banded or Lure variants that U-turn in your face.

Oh, and as to why I run Bulky Hydra, while I agree that Pivots and bulky offense are rampant, The upper speed tiers are all trying to max out.

with 100 pretty much being the speed tier to beat you find that most mons that have base 100+ speed all run Speed boosting natures to beat each other. Because base 100 with a speed boosting nature is better than 110 neutral, now all the 110 mons are forced to run speed boosting natures to maintain their speed advantage. And this in turn affects the 120 mons cause now they are being beaten by the 110's and need to speed up even further.

This all sucks for poor Hydreigon (98 base) who now needs a scarf to outrun anything base 100 or above. And that's why I run a Bulky set, because you trade the ability to outrun a handful of mons for the ability to take hits better, which is something the Hydra can do pretty well. I think that scarfing Hydreigon is a bit of a waste of its awesome and unpredictable coverage.

 

[Air]

Seen a lot of level 1 starters to lead. Slap a sash on and do as much damage then quick attack to finish off.

This doesn't happen higher on the ladder. Lvl 1 Sash Pokemon are somewhat useful, but unreliable.

 

[dkkc19]

Hydreigon is a fantastic check to M-Mawile if given a free switch (and provided it isn't above +2).
It either forces it out without taking damage or if M-Mawile decides to Sucker Punch, it dies.

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 179-211 (55 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 317-374 (104.2 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO

In fact Hydra is a pretty good poke in the meta right now, mostly due to its typing and synergy with such a large portion of the metagame. I've been wondering when its usage will increase, since it can check so many pokemon that are metagame-relevant (most notably Rotom-W, Talonflame and Aegislash).


Quoted for supreme truth. I think the most common set is the Weakness policy one though. What's the sub toxic set?

But play rough at +0 will easily take care of Hydreigon. If there is a light screen, Fire Blast is a 2HKO, which would allow for Mawile to take care of Hydreigon using Play Rough.

But that's very hypothetical, assuming there is a light screen, otherwise Mega Mawile is fucked, unless it got baton passed some speed.

 

[Pyritie]

(unless you like scarfed timid hydrei, which is screwed)

My scarfed hydrei is modest for this very reason. Timid can't OHKO m-maw but modest can.
You can't outrun a few other scarfers with modest but you even outspeed jolly m-aero (base 150) by about 4 points.
(neither jolly nor modest can outspeed deoxys-s though)

 

[WhiteFluffyBunny]

This doesn't happen higher on the ladder. Lvl 1 Sash Pokemon are somewhat useful, but unreliable.

Oh without a doubt, just there to create frustration I assume. But I'm glad to hear that.