Charizard

[Jukain]

ok so some other changes after talking to theender (want to talk to everyone else later about different mentions and solidifying sets and whatnot, just getting a few more things out of the way)

when you changed dd's main nature to jolly, you forgot to change the spread to 104 HP / 220 Atk / 184 Spe aka the one that lets it outspeed scarf lando, which is the main point of running jolly in the first place. throw a mention for 216 spe jolly in set details in order to outrun scarf kyub, which is gaining popularity, but the hp investment is useful enough that it shouldn't be on the primary spread.

dclaw should still be slashed on wisp zard x as dragon stab definitely has merit. i said it should be a secondary option, not to remove it entirely.

drop the investment on wisp zard x down to 240 and pour the rest into spdef. outspeeding diggers isn't notable enough for the main spread and moreover the loss in bulk involved in doing so.

240 HP / 76 Def / 176 SpD / 16 Spe Calm is a better spread for wisp zard y. the current defense investment you have is pretty arbitrary (it was originally for mawile which obviously isn't a concern anymore), and this provides a concrete benchmark in avoiding the 2hko from jolly lo sharp koff and 2hko from ada blackglasses, while hitting a spdef jump point.

 

[Jukain]

final set of changes after talking to ben gay

Dragon Dance

Slash EQ with Roost. For certain teams, the luring aspect of it is nice, hitting Heatran and Tyranitar (+1 DClaw doesn't KO, even after rocks). It doesn't have the same amount of longevity, but for more offensive teams this isn't really so much a problem whereas the utility of the extra coverage can be high, especially with teammates that appreciate those mons gone.

Special Wallbreaker

In Set Details, 240 EVs isn't really worth mentioning because at that point you might as well just run max. You should mention that Timid outspeeds Jolly Excadrill, which has become kinda common as of late.

Bulky Will-O-Wisp (Zard X)

The speed benchmark for this should actually be 250 (56 EVs), as outspeeding max Megazor is important. Otherwise, this can happen:

+2 252+ Atk Mega Scizor Superpower vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 292-344 (81.3 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Starmie and Tentacruel are other hazard removal partners you should mention with this.

3 Attacks + Roost

Remove this set. It's outclassed as a wallbreaker by Zard Y and moreover by Mega Altaria. Furthermore, it's an opportunity cost not to use Wisp or DD, both of which are such good options on Zard X.

Other Options

Clean this up a little bit. You don't need to mention bad options like Flame Charge and special moves on Zard X. The other stuff is fine, but get rid of those (basically the last two paragraphs of OO). Mention the 3 Attacks + Roost set here with its merits and why it's not generally a good option. You could mention a couple moves for DD Zard X, namely Thunder Punch to lure Azumarill and Outrage for the 2HKO on Quagsire. May as well also mention why Defog is a bad option because newer players might look at its moves and see Defog, thinking it's a good option because Defog is a good move in general when it's bad on Zard for obvious reasons.

Checks & Counters

Needs mentions of some more things: Mega Altaria (X and Y), AV Azumarill (you mentioned Azu but not AV, AV letting it beat Zard Y 1v1), bulky Tar (X), physically defensive Gliscor (X), Mega Slowbro (X), SpD Gyarados (Y), full SpD Hippowdon (this set isn't that great but it's a Y counter if kept in top shape), sand teams being a pain in general with the setter checking and Excadrill revenging (X), and Cresselia (Y and statusing X). Moltres and Snorlax aren't worth mentioning because they're bad.

---

Implement this stuff and put the analysis at GP 1/2.

 

[Ptyra]

I don't see why you would use 24 Atk EVs on Bulky WoW Zard X. Utility Mega Sableye is guaranteed 2HKOed by Flare Blitz without investissement, and :

Vs CM Mega Sableye
16 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 135-160 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO
24 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 135-160 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO
28 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 136-162 (44.7 - 53.2%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO
36 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 138-163 (45.3 - 53.6%) -- 40.2% chance to 2HKO
48 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 139-165 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO
60 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 141-166 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO
...
164 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 153-180 (50.3 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


The first jump point is at 16, the second one is at 28, but there is no reason to run 24 EVs (even factoring SR because Sableye is 2HKOed without investissement).

 

[trc]

you forgot adamant

 

[Agent Gibbs]

24 EVs is the first jump point for regular Charizard, not Charizard X. You only need 16 for Charizard X's first jump point, so you can just drop the Atk investment to 16 and put the rest in bulk. You could also bump it up to 44 EVs to guarantee the 2HKO on 252/252+ Mega Sableye, but that would mean giving up more bulk for a Pokemon that's probably losing 1-on-1 regardless.

 

[Jukain]

yea agent gibbs is right, i had it as 16 before and then recalc'd it to double check and must of inputted normal zard

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Oh yeah, forgot to bring this up earlier. Thoughts on Swords Dance + STABs + Roost? It's a set that I've seen here and there over the past couple of months (chimpact mentioned it in his POTW thread, if I remember right), and I've used it a little myself. It's a bit of a terror for slower teams to face since it can even OHKO 252/252+ Hippowdon with a +2 Flare Blitz if it gets a high damage roll and can do even more damage to a minimally invested Mega Altaria, and unlike the Swords Dance + Tailwind set, it's harder for these teams to wear down thanks to the presence of Roost. If you don't want to make it its own set, one other option would be to make the current "Swords Dance + Tailwind" set into a more general "Swords Dance" set with Roost either slashed next to Tailwind or mentioned in Moves (Dragon Claw would need a bigger mention as well since it works better alongside Roost than Outrage, in my opinion). I know it's kinda late since this is already into the GP stage, but just thought I'd float that idea out there.

 

[Ptyra]

Wtf I don't see why we would not mega evolve Charizard ?!

But even Adamant :
12+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 148-175 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO
16+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 148-175 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO
20+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 150-177 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
24+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 150-177 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
44+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 153-180 (50.3 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The jump points are at 12 and 20, not 16 or 24. Whatever 44 EVs seem fine.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

That's not what a jump point is. A jump point is when putting 4 EVs in a nature-boosted stat raises the actual stat by 2 points instead of 1. A Charizard X with 12 EVs and an Adamant nature has an Atk stat of 328, and putting 4 more EVs into Atk (16 total) gives it a stat of 330. 4 more EVs will just raise it to 331, and you won't get the next jump point until 56 (and every 40 EVs after that). It has nothing to do with damage calculations.

 

[aim]

trc :[

 

[trc]

yea i gotta drop this can someone please work from this and not waste the effort, thank you, sorry, etc i don't have time

 

[bb skarm]

AM aim Jukain I can take this over.

edit: aim let me take this