Chain Chomp

[Forsety]

It pretty much is. I wouldn't say using Mantine in general is a mistake since its certainly one of the sturdier things at the moment and can even Mirror Coat (gasp) and Water Absorb or Swift Swim are both excellent traits.

But if you use it for the sole purpose of countering something thats meant to be a surprise to begin with then yeah...

 

[JTX.PWNY.CR3W]

Duh! *Smacks Head* Forgot about pursuit

 

[General Tso]

Spiritomb wouldn't survive two consecutive EQs (btw my calculations say that it does 76%-90% with EQ), but it would survive two Draco Meteors and Pain Split back.

EDIT: Actually it wouldn't, since your Draco Meteor calculations are also off - I'm getting 68%-81% max damage from the first Draco Meteor to Spiritomb, and 34%-41% for the second one. That gives Spiritomb a very difficult chance to survive two Draco Meteors.

It's difficult to EV Spiritomb differently to be able to withstand two Draco Meteors, too.

EDIT 2: Just calculated it. It would need 252 HP EVs and 240 SpDef EVs with a +SpDef nature to be able to withstand two Draco Meteors.

Are you doing these by hand calculator and you're damage formula? Because I just used Metalkid's calculator =/

 

[Familiar Trainer]

And the point of this Mence is to remove a Special Wall.
Much like how CC can cripple Gliscor, Skarmory, et.al this Mence can cripple Blissey, Regice, et.al.

What Obi was probably trying to say was that even at 47%, Blissey can still function fine as a special wall. All she has to do is switch out, come back in on a special attacker and use Softboiled. Gliscor and friends however won't have enough health to come in even on physical attackers though, after a Chain Chomp assault.

Regice is also pretty sturdy, so I'm not too sure if a single Brick Break will kill it.

 

[Solar Crash]

After reading all of this, I have to say that it's kinda silly to come up with reasons why it could be un-usable or reasons why it wouldn't/couldn't work. Frankly, from reading the numbers and looking at the current metagame, I welcome this bizzare beast.

The point is that nothing is absolutely indestructible. That's pokemon, right? Everything will have some sort of counter, but if this thing can take out a few guys before it goes down, then that's fine too. The purpose of having a pokemon like this is to help you take out your opponent, and from what I can see, it fulfills that requirement.

The only thing that saddens me is that means I'll be seeing Garchomp a lot more often than not, even more-so than before, but you can't change that sort of thing in this sort of game, right? The way I see it, I welcome this newfound challenge. Variants of it will appear as well as the standard Garchomp, but who cares? There won't be a solid counter as long as you balance out the rest of your team. Even if you come up with 1, that's 1 counter for 1 pokemon, and you still have to work out beating the other 5, all of which could be anything as far as the metagame goes.

'Sides. Cresselia has her fears too, right? :p

Huzzah for creativity.

 

[DEL337ED]

I've been playtesting Chain Chomp on Shoddy Battle with great results.

I use a Bronzong lead to set-up stealth rock, then I eventually get in Tyranitar with sandstorm. Basically I wear down the other team a bit, then Chain Chomp comes in and does massive damage.

Basically I think the successfulness depends on how well you set-up, and your timing on when to bring out Chain Chomp.

 

[TheMantyke]

wouldn't hasty or naive be an option on this set for a speed boost?

 

[Suikama]

wouldn't hasty or naive be an option on this set for a speed boost?

It's attack power would be really low then.

 

[ViralKite]

From what I've seen an Articuno takes Chain Chomp's special attacks easily!. But SR can hurt poor Articuno. Obviously Blissey ruins Chain Chomp.

 

[Suikama]

From what I've seen an Articuno takes Chain Chomp's special attacks easily!. But SR can hurt poor Articuno. Obviously Blissey ruins Chain Chomp.

Did you even read the first post?

Chain Chomp OHKOs Blissey after a swords dance

 

[adman2]

From what I've seen an Articuno takes it well Chain Chomp's special attacks easily!. But SR can hurt poor Articuno.

Pretty much the whole topic advocates Chain Chomp's use with Stealth Rock support, so Articuno is definitely not a counter.

If you want to counter it, I'd assume we'd want something that can take a Draco Meteor (or Fire Blast), and live to tell about it. This would also require that it would not suffer too much from Stealth Rock (and possibly Sandstorm).

 

[Familiar Trainer]

From what I've seen an Articuno takes Chain Chomp's special attacks easily!. But SR can hurt poor Articuno. Obviously Blissey ruins Chain Chomp.

Except for the fact that Earthquake is a 2HKO on Blissey, and a OHKO after a Swords Dance.

Stealth Rock+Fire Blast should severely injure, if not kill Articuno. Poor bird.

 

[ViralKite]

Did you even read the first post?

Chain Chomp OHKOs Blissey after a swords dance

But one on one Blissey wins. He'll have to have the swords dance before hand... Did we even consider if Blissey had a ground berry?

I only included Articuno as it gets a max 384 hp, and usually some people run 383 Special Def.

 

[Suikama]

But one on one Blissey wins. He'll have to have the swords dance before hand...

Which would be when it switches in expecting a Draco Meteor.

 

[Surgo]

But one on one Blissey wins. He'll have to have the swords dance before hand...

Who the fuck cares? Last I checked Pokemon wasn't 1 on 1 until the very end. Cut the pedantic idiocy.

 

[adman2]

How much damage would Draco Meteor do (percentage wise) to a standard Mesprit?

Well, I did a calculation on MetalKid, and found out that Mesprit takes about 57% minimum from a Draco Meteor (assuming 252 HP EVs and a Bold Nature, since it doesn't boost Special Defense; this was based on the "Sturdy" Mesprit in the analysis). It definitely isn't a counter.

Quoting myself is weird, but hey, I might as well post this.

 

[Familiar Trainer]

Which would be when it switches in expecting a Draco Meteor.

Which is when your opponent predicts and instead of switching to Blissey, they switch to Weavile while you Swords Dance. Lol theorymon.

Blissey can't OHKO Lonely Garchomp with Ice Beam without loads of Special Attack. You could probably switch in on a Thunder Wave and Earthquake it to death. That's rather desperate though, but hey, it DOES beat Blissey. Or you could Swords Dance while it Ice Beams, then OHKO it with Earthquake.

 

[ViralKite]

Who the fuck cares? Last I checked Pokemon wasn't 1 on 1 until the very end. Cut the pedantic idiocy.

I was never trying to be an idiot. I just wanted to mention Blissey can still be scary even if Garchomp can destroy it most of the time.

 

[Lee]

Did we even consider if Blissey had a ground berry?

Of course we didn't, because Blissey can't use a ground berry, dur.

But one on one Blissey wins.

Only if it's running about 150 SpAtk EV's. Which is roughly 10% of the time in the Standard Environment. So, one on one ChainChomp wins.

 

[ViralKite]

Of course we didn't, because Blissey can't use a ground berry, dur.



Only if it's running about 150 SpAtk EV's. Which is roughly 10% of the time in the Standard Environment. So, one on one ChainChomp wins.

Um, Blissey can use a Shuca berry instead of Leftovers FYI. I won't advise it but you can do it!

 

[Great Sage]

Shuca Berry only works if you're weak to Ground. Anyway, nice job Surgo, Mekkah, and whoever was involved with the development of Chain Chomp.

 

[Dragontamer]

Um, Blissey can use a Shuca berry instead of Leftovers FYI. I won't advise it but you can do it!

Blissey isn't hit super-effective from ground attacks, thus it can't use it.

EDIT: Beaten by great sage

 

[ViralKite]

Shuca Berry only works if you're weak to Ground. Anyway, nice job Surgo, Mekkah, and whoever was involved with the development of Chain Chomp.

Oh, well thank you for clearing up my misunderstanding Great Sage. I was almost certain the berries were used regardless of weaknesses. Ah well. I do like the idea of Chain Chomp but I was just looking for future counters.

 

[TheMantyke]

would surf be an option on this?

 

[leafgreen386]

So we're trying to find counters, now? I think the fastest way you're going to find a counter is if you examine everything that was already known to take a mence DM, then eliminate the stuff that gets destroyed by EQ.

The typical list of specs mence counters is "any sdef oriented steel, blissey, cresselia, or milotic." Cresselia has already been proven to give this set trouble, but for pokes like ttar and hera, that obviously doesn't matter. Bliss was already shot down, and pretty much any of the previously mentioned steels get blasted by EQ (except bronzong and skarm, neither of which like fire blast, and skarm tends to avoid sdef EVs, anyway). When Milo is used as a specs mence counter, it usually packs a ton of sdef, and doesn't leave much room left for defense, but since this obviously isn't specs mence, if milo was to run max HP and def (bold) it would take min 64%* (and max 75%*) from an SD'd quake, easily 2HKOing. That same milotic takes 45-53%* from chomp's DM (hey, it's no salamence, and it's no specs). A milo with no satk EVs does 332-392 damage (93-109%) to chomp with ice beam (assumes lonely). Milo might be a viable counter if you can get it in at the right time (aka before/when it SDs), although it would require quite a different EV spread from what you would usually use to counter specs mence (I don't care how good its sdef is - with max hp, no sdef EVs, and +sdef nature it takes the same amount as a max hp/max+ def one takes from chain chomp's EQ, so it will usually be KOed before it can recover; I guess you can't get the best of both worlds, although I'm not sure how many people used milo as a specs mence counter in the first place).

* calcuations marked with a star were done on nb, so the actual result may be slightly lower in DP (note this applies to all calculations done except for milo's ice beam on garchomp)