Cacturne Discussion

[Smith]

How this one hasn't been made yet is beyond me.

Cacturne is simply a cornerstone of the NU metagame. For starters, he's the best spiker in the tier, who can also pack an offensive punch and get opportunities with Encore. He can also stop Gorebyss and the like and make up for generally poor defenses with Water Absorb (although it's not legal with Encore, faaaack). Here are some common sets:

Spiker
Cacturne @ Leftovers
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Adamant
Sand Veil
-Spikes
-Seed Bomb
-Encore
-Sucker Punch

This is the "defensive" Cacturne, and the one you're most likely to see. This Cacturne trades away the ability to check Gorebyss for a greater ability to set up Spikes, which are the main focus of the set.

Choice Band
Cacturne @ Choice Band
Adamant
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Water Absorb
-Sucker Punch
-Seed Bomb
-Revenge
-Low Kick (thanks Sabinfrost!)

This set is a much better check to some worrisome offensive threats like Gorebyss, Mesprit, or really anything you can hit with a STAB attack. Prediction is really key but he can serve as a very useful glue on a more offensive team that can otherwise not afford to run a Lapras or a Skuntank.

Hybrid
Cacturne @ Life Orb
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Adamant
-Swords Dance
-Seed Bomb
-Sucker Punch
-Spikes

This is a set I've been using personally as a compromise to the above sets. This one maintains some offensive spunk and the ability to stop Gorebyss while being a passable spiker, usually geting up at least 1 layer if I don't play like a retard.

It's worth mentioning one of his old school sets which is

@ Leftovers/LO (leftovers is better with sub usually)

Sub
SD
Seed Bomb
Sucker Punch

He's a bit slow but he can force switches.

Anyways, feel free to discuss Water Absorb vs. Encore, counters, team options etc.

 

[Steamroll]

I love how the defensive cacturne is probably the scariest one to face. Not only does it force a ton of switches it can create multiple opportunities to layer down spikes and cause hell with encore. Taking notes from the TeamBattles at one point we had a Torterra against a "Defensive" Cacturne and it just encored on the Rock Polish and started Seed Bombing, which really puts pressure on the opponent thinking "should I save him for later or sac him to try and kill it?" Cacturne is really, really good at creating that "Check Mate" Scenario which changes the tides of battle.

 

[Style_Dota]

Agreeing with everything Steamroll said. Cacturne is hands down the best spiker in the tier at the moment imo. Encore and Sucker Punch really play mind games with the opponent, and Cacturne easily finds opportunities to set up Spikes when coming in on certain Pokes

 

[jake]

Encore is, imo, incredibly important for Cacturne. It creates set-up opportunities as well as prevents other Pokemon from setting upon it, whereas Water Absorb is really only useful in taking Scalds from defensive Water-types that Cacturne scares out anyway.

 

[Honus]

Ah Cacturne!

Move over Garbodor, because this thing is probably the best Spiker in the tier. Water Absorb is great and all, but Zebra is spot-on in that encore is great. This thing can come in a Duosion Psychic, Recover or Calm Mind and completely shut it down, same goes for pretty much every other Calm Minder in the tier except for Mesprit, which it still beats if it lacks Ice Beam. It's ability to lay Spikes is pretty great too, since it has the offensive presence to force switches, SD+Spikes is just brilliant and can net you many Spiking opportunities.

 

[Darker than Black]

I use an SD set with Sucker Punch. it works fairly well.

 

[Sabinfrost]

He's good but outside of spiking I honestly prefer Absol

It's worth mentioning one of his old school sets which is

@ Leftovers/LO (leftovers is better with sub usually)

Sub
SD
Seed Bomb
Sucker Punch

He's a bit slow but he can force switches.

The filler on the Choice Band should be Low Kick for coverage against heavy steels like Probopass and Lairon.

He can also run a special sweeper, as I said, he's a bit slow but he has the moves for it, it can easily work with t-wave support or in a trick room.

@ Life Orb

Nasty Plot
Energy Ball
Dark Pulse
Focus Blast

He can also get Thunder Punch on the physical set for Flying types if you really want to hit that Braviary switch in harder, might be useful given he's 4x weak to u-turn. Poison Jab would be an option for enemy Grass types or Hidden Power (....) for anything on a special or mixed set.

It's also worth noting he gets Destiny Bond, that's probably a good ability on a suicide spiker with a sash

 

[Smith]

The responses here are actually pretty surprising to me since I find Water Absorb invaluable and I've never found Encore useful really at all. Being able to switch into bulky waters when you have a Pokemon as frail as Cacturne is, to me, reaaaallly important. Encore has never proven too useful for me since he's so slow to begin with anyways. The only things I see it coming handy on are Duosion, Musharna, and the like.

@Sabinfrost- I actually like that set a lot tbh. If you could fit Encore somewhere on there Sub + Encore could get super messy for the opposition, and allows you to use Sucker Punch without all the accompanying mind games.

 

[Full2Half]

a set of sub/suckerpunch/seed bomb/drain punch has worked greatly for me with max atk, and the rest being split between hp and speed.

 

[Smith]

I'm not sure what the HP EVs really do for you, since he has a Substitute and is very frail with no 4x resists to work with. I'd just throw those in Speed, since tying with other Cacturne and getting the jump on stuff like Gorebyss is pretty important. Otherwise it seems like a really great set though, Cacturne forces a lot of switches and can certainly abuse Substitute.

 

[Steamroll]

Encoring a Gorebyss trying to set up is the greatest feeling in the world, atm. Personally with how offensive cacturne tends to be without investment not even Swellow or Gore would like to be facing it. Swellow can easily get Sucker Punched and has to hit Cacturne twice if behind a sub. While Gore can be encored on the smash or just seed bomb'd.

 

[morph3us]

Thought I'd copy and paste my post from the Trick Room thread.

'Cacturne is blessed with sky high attacking stats on both sides of spectrum allowing it to easily go mixed. Unfortunately it's 115/115 attacking stats are held back by 55 speed. Luckily this makes it perfect for Trick Room.

Possessing an amazing movepool including strong STAB priority in Sucker Punch and Focus Punch for coverage. Unfortunately Focus Punch is not as useful under Trick Room as it requires another turn to set up a Substitute to ensure that the Focus Punch is uninterrupted. It also possesses Drain Punch as a more reliable physical Fighting attack. While Sucker Punch/Focus Punch is unresisted in NU other than Croagunk, Cacturne possesses excellent physical coverage at the price of it's moves failing to activate in certain circumstances.

Possessing both Nasty Plot and Swords Dance Cacturne is unpredictable and dangerous especially given a turn to set up. However if left with a sub at the end of Trick Room and Sucker Punch, Cacturne can easily run through teams.

Cacturne's special movepool is more reliable at the cost of a lower base power. Thankfully due to the high attacking stats this is often not a issue. On the special side Cacturne has Giga Drain, Focus Blast and Dark Pulse to round out it's movepool. Running a mixed Cacturne is good idea under Trick Room mixing Sucker Punch and the more reliable Special moves.

It's new ability Storm Drain requires it to sacrifice many of it's more useful moves and should generally not be used. It costs Cacturne Drain Punch, Focus Punch, Giga Drain and Dark Pulse. While the additional immunity is useful and offers an additional way to boost Cacturne's Special Attack the cost to the movepool is high and generally not worth using. It's poor defensive stats (70/60/60) make it unlikely to survive many hits, even being 2HKO'd by weak resisted attacks however few Pokemon can survive an assault from Cacturne.

Cacturne rarely survives for long and is a poor Sub Seeder due to low speed and weak defenses. Despite this it can run Drain Punch/Giga Drain/Leech Seed/Substitute in an attempt to extend it's hit points. It also possesses Spikes for a support set.'

None of you use Focus Punch? Cacturne is a mind game Pokemon who hides behind a sub and you've got to choose whether it's a Focus or Sucker Punch coming and react appropriately.