Blissey GP 0/2

cosmicexplorer

pewpewpew
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Blissey


[Overview]
<p>Blissey has ridiculous special bulk; it is an absolute certainty that Blissey will win one-on-one against almost any special attacker, or even a pair. However, its Defense is ridiculous to an equal extent, just to the opposite extent. Almost any physical attacker can walk all over it, as well as most Steel- and Poison-types due to their immunity to Toxic, unless Blissey uses Seismic Toss. Blissey has access to a multitude of support moves, as well as special attacks, so despite its weakness to physical attackers, it makes an excellent partner for just about anything.</p>

[SET]
name: Special Wall
move 1: Toxic
move 2: Softboiled
move 3: Seismic Toss
move 4: Protect
item: Leftovers / Chople Berry
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set is the standard frustrating wall, providing a full stop to almost any special attacker. However, despite its complete mastery of all special attacks, most physical attackers can effectively drop-kick it into next week, especially Fighting-types. Toxic allows Blissey to actually do damage, although the time limit means it will be slightly difficult to ensure a win thanks to its slow damage. Softboiled recovers HP to make Blissey effectively invincible. Seismic Toss hits Steels and stops Blissey from being complete Taunt bait, and Protect stops damage for a turn, which is really useful for Blissey thanks to its tendency to be easily KOed by most strong physical attacks.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>A Calm nature allows Blissey to take on especially powerful special attackers, especially rain teams, but a Bold nature gives a very small benefit to Defense, which can come in useful against weaker physical attackers. More Special Defense EVs are unnecessary, since Blissey already has a ridiculous amount of special bulk, and the Defense EVs allow it to take as many physical hits as possible. Blissey is useful to help check special attackers and annoying rain teams (outside of toxicroak and scizor), thanks to its incredible special bulk. It's not an exaggeration to say Blissey can win the match even if your opponent has four Pokemon on their side and Blissey is your last one left, if all opposing Pokemon are special attackers. Intimidate users such as Gyarados or Hitmontop, Follow Me or Rage Powder users such as Amoonguss or Togekiss, Psychic-type attackers such as Latios or Reuniclus, and Ghost-types with Will-o-Wisp such as Sableye, Dusclops, or Dusknoir are really really good partners in a stalling combination, taking care of most of the Pokemon that plague Blissey. Prankster Taunt users can also prove useful, since Blissey is completely shut down by opposing Taunt. Thundurus is especially useful, taking out Gyarados, which commonly carries Taunt. Sableye is also doubly useful, with Will-o-Wisp to neuter physical attackers. The reasons to use Blissey over Chansey is the ability to use an item: Chople Berry allows Blissey to take Fighting-type attacks with relative ease, while Leftovers allows it to take repeated hits from strong attackers without faltering far more easily than Chansey, despite Chansey's greater defenses.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>Counter, along with a Chople Berry, can obtain quite a few unexpected KOes, easily taking Close Combats and other Fighting-type attacks and retaliating with a KO. Serene Grace with Charge Beam allows Blissey to use a damaging attack that also raises its Special Attack every time it hits due to Serene Grace. This makes Blissey far less susceptible to Steel- and Poison-types and Taunt, and allows it to do some good damage after a few boosts, as well as break Focus Sashes. Minimize is an especially interesting option which can allow Blissey to get past many physical attackers with a bit of luck and a free turn or two. Sing and Attract are extremely unreliable, but synergize well with Minimize. The time limit is always an issue, however. Charm can help in a one-on-one situation against a physical attacker that can normally 2HKO Blissey (which is basically any physical attacker not Fighting-type). Heal Pulse and Reflect or Light Screen help Blissey's partner, using its ridiculous special longevity to support the team. Heal Bell heals away Toxic, which is many rain teams' only defense against Blissey, and can also help Blissey's teammates. Thunder Wave and Icy Wind support a slower partner, while Gravity boosts accuracy. Helping Hand boosts a partner's power. Blissey has access to a ridiculous number of support moves, but is plagued by four-moveslot syndrome, as well as the time limit, which limit the gamut of usable attacks.</p>

[Checks and Counters]
<p>Almost any physical attacker can OHKO or 2HKO Blissey easily, without suffering much more than a Toxic in return, and Fighting-types in particular can usually OHKO it with ease, although Thunder Wave, Charm, Chople Berry can hinder or even completely stop them if used correctly. Taunt-using special attackers stop Softboiled and Taunt, and can just whale away at Blissey until the blob is finally KOed, but the time limit may allow Blissey to stall them out to win, and Seismic Toss means Blissey will be able to beat it regardless. Gengar is immune to both Seismic Toss and Toxic, so Blissey can do nothing but Thunder Wave it.</p>

[Dream World]
<p>Because Seismic Toss is illegal with Healer, Natural Cure is most often the better choice. However, if not using Seismic Toss, Healer will make an excellent replacement to Natural Cure due to the low amount of switching making Natural Cure about useless, while Healer's chance to fix a status ailment can be immensely useful.</p>
 

Sprocket

P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n
[Dream World]
[*]
  • Natural Cure is cool but since switching is so limited in vgc play, healer is better in just about every way, since blissey doesn't need any egg moves or tms.
Just a note that Healer and Seismic Toss are illegal together, which makes attacking options for Healer Blissey very limited.
 

breh

強いだね
mention thunder (rain) and charge beam in OO to be used with serene grace?

may want to mention that heal bell is also a great anti-hax move.

defence curl in OO?

healing wish?

skill swap serene grace could be a fun gimmick. not sure if it's any good.

psych up + cotton guard (something)?
 

cosmicexplorer

pewpewpew
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Ok, this should be ready for QC now.

Thunder is outclassed by Thunder Wave, even in rain; Blissey can't hit that hard anyway, and if the rain stops, Thunder is extremely unreliable. Charge Beam is different since it stops Blissey from being complete Taunt bait and can let it take out stuff like Thundurus despite Taunt.

Defense Curl is outclassed by Charm and Minimize. Healing Wish is the last thing Blissey wants to do; it's meant to stay alive as long as possible. Skill Swap Serene Grace is gimmicky and could work, but there's really nothing that comes to mind that can take advantage of it effectively enough to make it useful. Psych Up can work, but with Blissey's terrible Speed, whatever's going to attack it will just hit it first for a KO. It can work if you're out against two special attackers and you think they have something physical in back, but that's a really specific situation and is so difficult to set up that it's really not worth it. Blissey also has four-move syndrome, so anything that's not immediately useful shouldn't really be mentioned.
 

muffinhead

b202 wifi vgc
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p sure evs should just aim for def and spec def, more overall bulk.
mention simple beam and minimize



minimize can burn in hell forever
 
Just a thought: For Skill Swapping Serene Grace, what about Aerodactyl as a partner? 60% chance for either opponent to not move at all thanks to Rock Slide isn't bad (especially since Aero outspeeds most opponents)
 

Kinneas

puffoon
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Realistically, does Heal Bell ever see any use in normal matches? I mean outside of ridiculous stall wars on PO that aren't ever going to be concluded in a normal VGC environment.
 

cosmicexplorer

pewpewpew
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It's for opposing Toxic. Some rain teams (which Blissey is commonly used to check) use Toxic on Kingdra or Toed to take out Shedinja and Blissey. Outside of incredibly smart switching, Blissey will get worn down and eventually lose without Heal Bell. It's not the most common move, but Heal Bell is incredibly useful when they do have some status move.
 

breh

強いだね
so, are you going to mention charge beam + serene grace in OO?

also, make sure to add an ability tag of natural cure.
 
You should be using Calm, as the boost a nature provides is percentage based rather than static. This means that you have a higher stat total if you use Calm instead of Bold. You're not desperately trying to survive any one attack in the VGC metagame, so Bold is not worth it (you need Chople to have a chance to survive the assraping that Blissey receives from any of the million Fighting-types, but that is another discussion entirely on why Blissey is bad in the VGC 2012 metagame).
 

Sprocket

P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n
A Follow Me or Rage Powder partner and a Psych Up partners make good teammates; Follow Me/Rage Powder to get the minimize boosts going, and Psych Up to copy the evasion boosts.

The only sure-fire way past Minimize is a perfect accuracy attack, such as Aura Sphere, Clear Smog, and Swift. Otherwise you need to resort to using something like Haze to reset the evasion boosts, or Perish Song to force switches or kills.
 

breh

強いだね
don't forget perish song.

also, IMO run max Def/max HP bold. Its SpD is already stupidly high; even with two hits on it per turn, it's still very, very strong.
 

cosmicexplorer

pewpewpew
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36.5% - 43.1%: Rhyperior's Earthquake against Bold Blissey
82% - 97%: The same Rhyperior's Earthquake against 0 Def Blissey

What Blissey doesn't need is more special defense, while extra Defense actually allows it to take a physical hit. Blissey actually can take a physical Fighting-type it if it really needs to: Hitmontop's Adamant 252 Atk Close Combat does 88.4% - 105%, only a 30.1% chance to KO. Scrafty, for example, has only Drain Punch, and does even less.
 
Remember, calm nature is better simply for the HIGHER STATS. Bold does bugger all really and is a waste of a nature. Calm 252/252 defs and chople is perfectly fine on the physical side.

I still wouldn't use Blissey though. Well, maybe... I'm not sure. I think Swampert is better.
 
36.5% - 43.1%: Rhyperior's Earthquake against Bold Blissey
82% - 97%: The same Rhyperior's Earthquake against 0 Def Blissey

What Blissey doesn't need is more special defense, while extra Defense actually allows it to take a physical hit. Blissey actually can take a physical Fighting-type it if it really needs to: Hitmontop's Adamant 252 Atk Close Combat does 88.4% - 105%, only a 30.1% chance to KO. Scrafty, for example, has only Drain Punch, and does even less.
Why would you go from 252 Def to 0.... the point was that you use 252 Defense regardless, but you use Calm because it gives you a higher stat total (Bold gives you a pitiful six extra defense at level 50).
 

voodoo pimp

marco pimp
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Shouldn't it be the same either way? Bold means you take 10% less from physical attacks, Calm means you take 10% less from special.
 
Bold nature with no special defense EVs is surprisingly unreliable on the special side. Under ideal circumstances, it works, but when some special attacker scores a special defense down on it and strong special attacks start doing in the area of 30-40% (not uncommon when it's 1v2, Blissey vs two special attackers), Blissey can actually lose to them before they die to Toxic, let alone Seismic Toss. So I'm of the opinion that Calm is generally more useful than Bold, especially if Blissey has Chople and not Leftovers. It needs some degree of special defense investment and/or auto recovery to remain nigh invincible to special attacks.
 
If you want to minimize the total damage taken from two equally powerful physical and special attacks (say, vaporeon scald and then swampert waterfall), 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Bold should be used. However, if your goal is not to maximize overall defense but to have some bias toward special defense, calm can be optimal.
 

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