Benjamin Butterfree (Aka Pokemon DeEvolution)

[Squawkerz]

Uh...Pokémon don't change nature when they devolve, do they?

On another note, it looks like Hippowdon might be a better sand setter than Tyranitar because Hippo doesn't lose Sand Stream when it devolves. Shame about Drizzle because...well, Politoed. Then again, if Politoed gets rain up and dies, it gets double Speed as Poliwhirl (because Politoed's Hidden Ability is Drizzle and Poliwhirl's is Swift Swim). That seems...uh, cool, I guess? The issue, though, is how Poliwhirl's stats are more physically oriented, whereas those of Politoed are more specially oriented.

Oh sorry, I must have not changed it in the teambuilder. Will fix asap
:)

 

[MattL]

This meta is a great concept, but I actually think that using the concept against itself instead of using it directly is the way to go here, based on the general attitude behind viable threats.

Team

The first thing you might notice is that 4 out of 6 mons do not have any pre-evolutions. This is on purpose. Why? People are trying to utilize mons with viable pre-evolutions. But in terms of the pre-evolutions appearing when a mon faints, instead of "another somewhat viable free team member," I see "setup fodder." That's the premise of this team - being able to create setup fodder while preventing it from having any setup fodder of its own.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Taunt
- Toxic

Heatran is amazing here - counters the Talonflame and Serperior lines while being able to check the Weavile and Magnezone lines and shut down the Blissey line. Obviously it can't take down all of those combined due to basically no recovery, but Heatran's general utility is insane, and it doesn't have a weak pre-evo that people can set up on. It's unlikely people will be running HP Ground but scout for it. Some Speed EVs can be put into the defenses if max speed is unnecessary, as this thing's Speed tier is strange - depends on the meta though.

Latios @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Defog
- Trick

Since you can see I'm using bird spam, we need hazard removal, and I didn't want to use a spinner since Staryu and Drilbur are too easy to take advantage of. Unfortunately there's no good defogger that's not weak to Weavile, but Scarf Defog, while weird, is great for several reasons. It can surprise KO things faster things like Weavile, get off a Defog before things like Weavile KO it, and perhaps best of all, Trick away its Scarf. I don't have Knock Off on this team, but that's actually fine and intentional, because what's even more setup fodder than a pre-evo is a scarfed pre-evo. If something's really threatening, I can also Trick it just to make sure it can't switch up moves and sweep. Finally, Latios has no pre-evo that can be setup fodder for the opponent.

Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick

Rotom-W counters the Weavile and Talonflame lines and has Trick. It's great here for the same reasons it is in OU - it can pivot around easily and switch into lots of things, but not many things are comfortable switching into it, which is fantastic for an HO team like this one. It can also Trick a Scarf onto Serperior and then I set up with one of the birds after Rotom dies. And again, very importantly, Rotom has no pre-evo. Rotom doesn't need power, it needs to be able to switch into things while still being fast enough to use the Scarf effectively, hence the EVs. Similar to Heatran, some Speed can be taken off, meta-dependent.

Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Quick Attack
- Return
- Close Combat

The rest of the team is based around sweepers that can take full advantage of the opportunities created by the Heatran Latios Rotom core. Mega Pinsir is chosen, despite being weak to several common threats, because it pairs well with Talonflame, one of the best mons in the meta, doesn't have a weak pre-evo that can be set-up fodder, has strong priority, and destroys the Blissey line. Jolly can be used depending on what the meta turns out to be.

Talonflame
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Roost
- Taunt

Again, Talonflame is one of the best mons here due to its ability to continually apply pressure. Obviously a no item SD acro set is used, but I went with a bulky max speed set for a few reasons. If Stealth Rock aren't up, this actually counters and gets to +6 on Weavile, and it can get off an Acro before Weavile can get off an Ice Shard. It will probably also outspeed a lot of opposing Talons since I doubt many will be running max speed Jolly, but that doesn't really matter since I have 3 of the best Talon counters on my team. Taunt can be replaced with Wisp - Taunt helps you solo the Blissey line (more generally: stops Twave and Toxic) and allows you to set up on Serp without fearing Glare, etc. Anyway, it's hard for teams to deal with Mega Pinsir + Talonflame + Fletchinder, all of which will have much easier times setting up SDs.

Aggron @ Chople Berry
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Head Smash
- Heavy Slam
- Fire Punch

The last mon is another sweeper, but also able to take on Weavile and Talonflame. Even though I have Heatran and Rotom, they have so many other responsibilities and neither of them have any EVs in either defense. Chople TTar is still outsped by things after a DD and still takes way too much from Low Kick Weavile, whereas Aggron survives max roll Low Kick plus max roll Ice Shard. Aggron helps ensure that even if I lose Heatran and Rotom, I'm not swept by a late game Talonflame. Its defensive typing allows it to set up on some things that Pinsir and Talon can't, and still has a ton of power.

Edit: Actually, I might go as far to say that most mons with pre-evolutions are worse in this meta. Like, what is Buneary doing to a team of Keldeo / Latios / Lando-T / Mega Scizor / Clef / Bisharp? Answer: becoming setup fodder.

 

[readytolose]

This meta is a great concept, but I actually think that using the concept against itself instead of using it directly is the way to go here, based on the general attitude behind viable threats.

This metagame has existed for literally one day, you can't say that there's a certain attitude about anything. There are no "metagame trends" to prepare for. People aren't talking about the viability of Heatran and Latios because they haven't changed at all in this meta. It's always like this in uncoded metas: people discuss the pokemon most affected by the meta. If you think no one's going to prepare for Heatran because no one's discussed it yet, you're wrong.

Edit: Actually, I might go as far to say that most mons with pre-evolutions are worse in this meta. Like, what is Buneary doing to a team of Keldeo / Latios / Lando-T / Mega Scizor / Clef / Bisharp? Answer: becoming setup fodder.

Setup fodder for what? Clefable and Mega Scizor can already set up on Mega Lopunny. It can't beat anything, but it can use Fake Out and get some free damage on Latios or something, to put it in range of something else. The smarter players will be splashing Thunder Wave on everything so that their pre-evolved forms don't become a momentum sink/setup fodder, against offensive teams at least. And while Buneary's damage output isn't enough to beat Clefable, it fares much better against Clefairy. That's what I think is cool about this metagame: you pick your battles so that your less-valuable mons are pitted against their less valuable mons. If you build your sets carefully, you can make it so even your weaker mons aren't setup fodder, since they can still use status moves.

 

[Squawkerz]

Seconding this. The potential for pre evolutions to carry Thunder Wave in this meta is very high, as their offensive usage dwindles and their pre evolution will become much more of a 'try to stop as many Pokemon as possible'. And just because their offense becomes less threatening, bulky pokemon with Eviolite can still be quite a problem. What I am saying is, teams don't have to have 3-Stage pokemon to be good, but don't underestimate a Pre-Evo. It can easily change the course of a game as much as a fully evolved Pokemon could.

Now that team is very cool, especially with that Aggron set.

Also since this meta is still very new, discussion on Aegislash will be but on hold until this meta becomes more popular or gets coded. Also I am going to look for a better banner soon.

:)

 

[readytolose]

And if you think about it, you don't even need to use the pre-evolutions until it's absolutely necessary if you're so scared about being set up on. You can just play a game with you're 6 fully evolved Pokemon then start using the pre-evolutions when you run out of options. That way you can't complain about them turning over momentum and setup opportunities to the opponent, because if you were using 6 evolution-less pokemon, you would have already lost by then, so it's basically a moot point. Not that I think many pokemon are completely worthless. If you've played Random Battle or Challenge Cup much, you would know that no Pokemon is completely useless, and with clever play you can turn setup fodder into a sac that lets you keep momentum.

I might be wrong about the mechanics though, but I'm pretty sure that once a Pokemon faints, you can send in whatever Pokemon you want, and the next pre-evolution doesn't remain on the field. That way you don't lose momentum from de-evolving.

just so this isn't a complete shitpost, I'm gonna throw in a few more viable mons and sets I thought of.

viable setup fodder

Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast/HP Fire
- Shadow Ball

Reuniclus is pretty neat cause it can setup Trick Room and continue abusing it even if it faints. Since stat boosts don't remain after fainting, this is the next best thing. What's even better is that Duosion has the exact same Special Attack stat as Reuniclus, letting you continue to hit just as hard if you faint. Even Solosis has a really solid Special Attack of base 105. I slashed HP Fire because Duosion doesn't have access to Focus Blast. I think HP Fire is better so you can continue to maintain a presence against Steel-types even if you faint. Trick Room seems good in this cause it can help some slow pre-evolutions turn the tables on faster mons, it also prevents them from being s-ssetup f-ff-fodder for stuff like Mega Charizard X.

Conkeldurr @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Poison Jab

Conkeldurr has three stages and they're all pretty strong thanks to Sheer Force, and with the right Speed investment even Timburr can wallbreak against things. Notably, Gurdurr is a Pokemon that's viable in much of the lower tiers and is basically a slightly worse Conkeldurr, so you don't really get downgraded all that much when you faint. You don't lose ANY moves as you de-evolve either. Mach Punch is great too, as it prevents Timburr from being a completely dead weight against most fully evolved Pokemon if it comes down to that. 80 Attack for a first-stage mon is pretty solid too.

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Scald
- Ice Beam

Kingdra is the best rain sweeper. Seadra has exactly the same Speed and Special Attack as it, and although it loses Draco Meteor, it wouldn't have STAB on it anyway so it doesn't really miss it. If you can keep your Politoed around, it can continue to do big damage to the opponent throughout the game. Even Horsea isn't that bad, as the decreased Speed and Special Attack are partially offset by the Rain + Specs, letting you do big damage to evolved Pokemon. I feel like Pokemon who's final form was added in a later generation are particularly viable in this due to their higher stats.

 

[Akumeoy]

When an evolved mon faints, do you have the opportunity to send in something different immediately? If so, Multi-stage Pokemon also get huge utility out of Healing Wish. Mega Lopunny and Mega Gardevoir can die of natural causes the first time, then turn into two free heals for its teammates. I would say the same of Blissey and Clefable, but honestly they need their moveslots.

Regardless of the answer to that question, Memento users like Chandelure and Whimsicott can get a lot of utility out of the move. I mean, if you're worried about something becoming setup fodder, it's hard to ask for a better countermeasure than -2 stages to each offensive stat. Whimsicott in general already has a stable of utility moves that devolving won't really inhibit it from using, so it could be a viable suicide screens lead for offensive teams that can perform its whole spiel multiple times.

 

[SadisticMystic]

The way I'm interpreting it, if something faints while it has extra lives, you don't get to switch to a revenge killer for free. Instead it's as though the devolved form remains in, having received the equivalent of a Lunar Dance refresh minus whatever moves it has to lose to stay legal. (I still haven't received word about whether it suffers entry hards on revival; it might be interesting if it doesn't).

The nice thing about stuff like Gigalith and Golem is they mostly avoid the setup bait problem by virtue of deliberately not staying in for very long, just enough to go boom three times. If it's indeed just considered a revival and doesn't trigger hazards, then Sturdy is especially helpful in making sure they live long enough for that one move...but no longer.

 

[Squawkerz]

When an evolved mon faints, do you have the opportunity to send in something different immediately? If so, Multi-stage Pokemon also get huge utility out of Healing Wish. Mega Lopunny and Mega Gardevoir can die of natural causes the first time, then turn into two free heals for its teammates. I would say the same of Blissey and Clefable, but honestly they need their moveslots.

Regardless of the answer to that question, Memento users like Chandelure and Whimsicott can get a lot of utility out of the move. I mean, if you're worried about something becoming setup fodder, it's hard to ask for a better countermeasure than -2 stages to each offensive stat. Whimsicott in general already has a stable of utility moves that devolving won't really inhibit it from using, so it could be a viable suicide screens lead for offensive teams that can perform its whole spiel multiple times.

What the post below yours said is correct, you don't get a free switch after your pokemon devolves.

And entry hazards don't affect Pokemon once they devolve.

 

[Asumi]

Still no answers? :P

Stuff:

• if your Pokemon faint before executing its move (it's slower than the opponent), will its devolved form continue the attack? And what if the attack was removed when it devolved?
• if Poison Heal Gliscor devolved into Immunity Gligar, would the poison get removed?
  
• if you use Healing Wish or Lunar Dance, what would these moves heal?
• do Perish Song counts disappear when you devolve?
• what about Stockpile counts? Fury Cutter?
• Metronome (Item) counts?

I honestly think the devolved form should still continue the attack if you faint its evolved form.
When your attacks get cancelled when devolving, it's a bit pointless.

Example

Turn 1
Alakazam used Psychic!
Gengar fainted! Gengar devolved into Haunter! (Haunter doesn't get to move)

Turn 2
Alakazam used Psychic!
Haunter fainted! Haunter devolved into Gastly! (Gastly doesn't get to move)

Turn 3
Alakazam used Psychic!
Gastly fainted!

I think it's better like this:

Hide

Turn 1
Alakazam used Psychic!
Gengar fainted! Gengar devolved into Haunter!
Haunter used Shadow Ball! (Haunter continues the attack that Gengar was supposed to use)
Alakazam fainted! Alakazam devolved into Kadabra!

Turn 2
Kadabra used Psychic!
Haunter fainted! Haunter devolved into Gastly!
Gastly used Shadow Ball! (Gastly continues the attack that Haunter was supposed to use)
Kadabra fainted! Kadabra devolved into Abra!

• How do Items work? (If an item is Knocked Off or Consumed, It won't appear on the devolved pokemon.)
• How do statuses work? (Same as items)

What do you mean by "same as items"? Statuses get removed when you devolve?
If they do get removed, does it remove any status or just the non-volatile ones (PSN,BRN,FRZ,PAR)? Or in other words, does Confusion/Encore/Taunt/etc get removed upon devolving?

 

[Squawkerz]

All statues get removed.

Also, with this meta, there are still a lot of problems that need to be solved, and the only real way is for the meta to be coded, so we can see what changes can be made to make the meta playable and balanced.

Speaking of which, it might be to early to do this, but could someone with knowledge in coding possibly code this meta? It would really help sort things out.

:)

 

[readytolose]

Still no answers? :P
I honestly think the devolved form should still continue the attack if you faint its evolved form.
When your attacks get cancelled when devolving, it's a bit pointless.

I think either having a mechanic like this, or being able to switch out after losing a life could help balance things, cause as it stands you need to sometimes sacrifice all three of a pokemon's lives just to get a safe switch into something else. Although it's tough to say until it actually gets playtested.

 

[Kingofthesun]

I personally like the idea of if your mon faints, then they can still continue their move in their pre-evo form (so long as they have it of course). It prevents pre-evos from being swept like their evolved form and defeats the purpose of what the meta imposes; if your mon faints you can still use the pre-evo. (or at least that's what i see the meta's point as) You're not really using it if it's just sitting there getting swept.

also...

Medicham @ Choice Scarf/Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
- Fake Out/Bullet Punch/Filler

This was literally my first thought when i saw this meta. Even meditite has almost as much atk as azu

 

[Pipotchi]

I like the idea of this meta!
If mons continue their attack with their prevolution even if KOed, it will totally flip the meta on its head, and in a bad way. No longer will any sweeper be viable, because they will not be able to knock out pokemon in one hit without retaliation as sweepers are supposed to. Instead, the meta will turn bulky and will be all about taking hits as well as giving them. A lot of frail pokemon will turn trash if pokemon continue their attack after being KOed, as speed becomes more irrelevant and pokemon are guaranteed to get smacked with something every turn. Imo that is a crucial part of pokemon which is just detrimental to remove. If you want a solution to an evolution line just getting chopped down in 3 turns without any viable response to a sweeper, then mons should give an option of switching out after devolving, just like after a ko. Then a pokemon can come in to revenge the sweeper without losing momentum, just like in regular games.

 

[Asumi]

I like the idea of this meta!
If mons continue their attack with their prevolution even if KOed, it will totally flip the meta on its head, and in a bad way. No longer will any sweeper be viable, because they will not be able to knock out pokemon in one hit without retaliation as sweepers are supposed to. Instead, the meta will turn bulky and will be all about taking hits as well as giving them. A lot of frail pokemon will turn trash if pokemon continue their attack after being KOed, as speed becomes more irrelevant and pokemon are guaranteed to get smacked with something every turn. Imo that is a crucial part of pokemon which is just detrimental to remove. If you want a solution to an evolution line just getting chopped down in 3 turns without any viable response to a sweeper, then mons should give an option of switching out after devolving, just like after a ko. Then a pokemon can come in to revenge the sweeper without losing momentum, just like in regular games.

Won't this be defeating the meta's purpose though?
If every time you devolve you get forced out, you're only getting something to sac later. Most NFEs can't stand up to legendaries or fully-evolved Pokemon. Not to mention Megas. If you they don't get to move now, chances are they won't be getting to move later either. They're not going to switch in into anything. Ivysaur, even coming from standard defensive Venusaur, can't switch into CB Azumarill. Trying to revenge kill with an NFE is also a tall order. You can't hit Serperior with a Charmeleon. Or Gengar with a Kadabra.
Most NFEs would just sit in the team until the opponent uses his/her own NFE. That's hardly fun. It would most likely come down to who can keep their fully-evolved Pokemon alive the longest.
Of course, we can just put scarf on everything so these NFEs can hit something when they get a free switch.

A lot of the meta's fun potential, imho, is based on whacking adult Pokemon with angsty adolescents. If we adopt a switching mechanic, it would just be standard OU that turns into an NFE battle, that turns into Little Cup.
Well... okay, that sounds fun, too. But there's nothing like OHKOing Gengar with a Ralts. :D

That said, I'm probably okay with whatever the meta owner decides.

 

[Pipotchi]

Going back to your example, then. What's the point of using that fast Alakazam to try and sweep when, after outspeeding and knocking out the Gengar, you get ohko'd back and your sweeper drops down an evolution- then you knock out the Haunter next turn, and you get turned into an Abra- and then you knock out the Gastly and are left with a sweeping Abra? Thats not going to sweep anything, so there was no value in trying to aim for a fast frail sweeper in the first place because winning the speed tie and beating the Gengar line still resulted in your sweeper getting crippled into uselessness. Its far worse for other pokemon too since Abra is one of the fastest and hardest hitting prevolutions (things like Serperior dropping to Servine or Garchomp to Gible is as good as useless)

Youre right that NFEs are a lot weaker against fully evolved pkmn. But giving them free hits against standard pokemon is also seemingly pointless. That means I can never KO a Haunter with a Kadabra unless I want to lose 15 spa and 15 speed. The only way I can safely grab KOs without putting myself at a disadvantage is by getting kos without being crippled by the prevolution that will follow- and that doesnt just include getting KOd. I can no longer just KO a stealth rock setter to prevent them setting up, because I will KO it and then the prevo will just set up stealth rock in my face anyway. That limits my ability to apply pressure on my opponent trying to set up hazards is limited entirely to magic bounce and taunt. If I want to stop a pokemon from phasing my sweeper which has set up a sword's dance, how do I do so? I can knock them out, but their prevo is just going to use Roar anyway. I can KO Breloom but he's always going to 100% Spore me afterwards, or i can KO Chandelure but I am definitely getting burned by Lampent anyway? That is reaaaaaally hard to deal with as offensive pokemon.
But yea, it feels like if you want to get KOs withut getting wrecked afterwards you have to use bulky pokemon and 100% counters to make sure i KO while still remaining very healthy.

Im not saying that the guarantee of attacking every turn doesnt create an interesting metagame, but thats an OM in itself (and i am pretty sure it exists already). I think the problem you are identifying is that NFEs are kinda ineffective as offensive mons if you dont give them some sort of free ticket. Not sure what the solution is tho.

 

[readytolose]

If you want a solution to an evolution line just getting chopped down in 3 turns without any viable response to a sweeper, then mons should give an option of switching out after devolving, just like after a ko. Then a pokemon can come in to revenge the sweeper without losing momentum, just like in regular games.

Seconding this, it captures the flavour of the meta without adding another confusing mechanic (attacking after being knocked out). It seems like a simple solution to me that lets you save the pre-evolutions for later. If your attack was to continue after being knocked out, that adds some more logistical concerns. What happens if you use a move a pre-evolution can't learn? What about multi-hit moves? Most of all, I don't see a reason to add this mechanic to the metagame at all. Being able to switch out after fainting seems like the most intuitive solution, cause that's how it works in standard play.

 

[Kingofthesun]

after rethinking a bit and reading other posts, i think that the "attack still continues" thing isn't exactly as balanced as i had first thought. however, on that same note, i do really believe that the viability (or at least usage of) NFEs/LCs is an important part of this meta, even if it is just a sac for a clean switch. so obviously keeping the attack going literally destroys every and any kind of sweep aside from bulky setup (even then...), so the proposition of switching after fainting is one that piques my interest and i'm very much in favor of. one might argue that memento/healing wish/chip damage into a sweeper might make it way too easy to start a sweep of your own, especially when you can do it multiple times e.g. whimsicott, bissey, explosion/S-D users. But the same way you stopped their streak of sweeping could be used against you.

(take what i say w/ a grain of salt I'm not the greatest at this game)

 

[Asumi]

Now I'm regretting using Alakazam and Gengar as an example. They're pretty much special cases where their STABs are super-effective against each other, and both are frail enough to get OHKO'd by pre-evos (even Ralts has a chance to OHKO Gengar).

In most cases, an NFE's attacking stats are a lot lower. Unless you're running hyper offense, they can't do much damage even if they continue their attack.
Adamant Dragonair's Outrage can't OHKO a Weavile. That's saying something.

And as I've said, it's not fun having NFEs just sit in the team until you need a sac or after the whole battle devolved into PU or LC.
I don't see the point of making an OM that too closely resembles standard play.

Continuing attacks also add new layers of strategy that are unique to this metagame. Like having Gengar revenge kill an Alakazam. Impossible in standard without a scarf.
There's also predicting when your fully-evolved Pokemon will get KO'd, so you'd pick a move that the devolved form can take advantage of. Attacks are not always the best option (because NFEs are weaker).
If your Dragonite will be KO'd this turn, why not click on Dragon Dance so your Jolly Dragonair can outspeed that Weavile and finish it off?
Scizor can use Swords Dance as its dying move to a faster Pokemon, so its faster counterpart Scyther can make use of that +2 boost without suffering from Stealth Rock. Same goes for Weavile dying to priority.
Then there's Encore, Taunt, Thunder Wave, Heal Bell and other support moves that make sure your babies won't be fodder when they devolve.

This gives the metagame a unique flavor that can't be copied by others. Playing smart — like putting up a sub if you think your opponent is trying to sac into Thunder Wave — is something healthy imo. Trying to make an OM adhere to standard sets is missing the point of creating a metagame. Mindless "Swords Dance + 3 attacks" won't work here, so be creative. It's not like we're lacking options.
I suppose hyper offense players won't get the satisfaction of cleaning up everything in one hit though.

 

[Metarkrai]

Level 1 Aggron is illegal: even if you allow full-on G3 Pomeg glitch abuse, eggs back then hatched at level 5. Notably, a L5 Aggron has 22 HP, and likewise the lowest level you can get on a Magnezone is 6 (for 24 HP, too much to run Berry Juice/Recycle shenanigans with for wasting tons of PP).

Actually, if you allow full Pomeg Glitch, you can obtain any combination of Pokémon, exp (even with Lv 0 at 0 exp), and Moves (even G4/5 moves, maybe G6 moves too)

And even without Pomeg Glitch, the Day Care Experience Glitch allows you to obtain Pokémon with any amount of experience (between 0 and their maximal exp in Emer/FrLg, and between 0 and 2^32-1 in RS), so a Lv 0/1 Aggron is also possible this way.

 

[Pipotchi]

Now I'm regretting using Alakazam and Gengar as an example. They're pretty much special cases where their STABs are super-effective against each other, and both are frail enough to get OHKO'd by pre-evos (even Ralts has a chance to OHKO Gengar).

In most cases, an NFE's attacking stats are a lot lower. Unless you're running hyper offense, they can't do much damage even if they continue their attack.
Adamant Dragonair's Outrage can't OHKO a Weavile. That's saying something.

And as I've said, it's not fun having NFEs just sit in the team until you need a sac or after the whole battle devolved into PU or LC.
I don't see the point of making an OM that too closely resembles standard play.

Continuing attacks also add new layers of strategy that are unique to this metagame. Like having Gengar revenge kill an Alakazam. Impossible in standard without a scarf.
There's also predicting when your fully-evolved Pokemon will get KO'd, so you'd pick a move that the devolved form can take advantage of. Attacks are not always the best option (because NFEs are weaker).
If your Dragonite will be KO'd this turn, why not click on Dragon Dance so your Jolly Dragonair can outspeed that Weavile and finish it off?
Scizor can use Swords Dance as its dying move to a faster Pokemon, so its faster counterpart Scyther can make use of that +2 boost without suffering from Stealth Rock. Same goes for Weavile dying to priority.
Then there's Encore, Taunt, Thunder Wave, Heal Bell and other support moves that make sure your babies won't be fodder when they devolve.

This gives the metagame a unique flavor that can't be copied by others. Playing smart — like putting up a sub if you think your opponent is trying to sac into Thunder Wave — is something healthy imo. Trying to make an OM adhere to standard sets is missing the point of creating a metagame. Mindless "Swords Dance + 3 attacks" won't work here, so be creative. It's not like we're lacking options.
I suppose hyper offense players won't get the satisfaction of cleaning up everything in one hit though.

While I do appreciate your argument I dont think you are seeing how much impact a NFE can have when it can have a guaranteed attack. Its not just hyper offense that is affected. Every playstyle apart from stall utilises offensive pokemon that they want to keep alive to continue hitting opponents pokemon as well as pokemon which hit first in order to not take return damage. If you are aiming to create a meta which subverts this, Final Breath already exists and this becomes a very roundabout extension of that metagame albeit perhaps more interesting. If thats what the creator is aiming for, then thats fine I guess, but I didnt think that was the aim- although this might just be me missing the point. Basically, the inability to prevent utility moves by threatening the opponet with a knockout and the lack of ability to sweep I tihnk will let stall run totally rampant in this metagame.

I can see the positives to what you are saying, and I would enjoy a metagame that had that complexity without the negatives which heavily constrict playstyles that I think it would also bring. Please dont think that Im disputing that the positives would be fun or interesting to explore.

 

[Asumi]

The problem with the switching mechanic is that the winner will most likely be determined based on whose top-of-the-line Pokemon is left healthy.
If your Mew is the last OU-mon standing, there's not much anything can do. Max Atk LO Pawniard's Sucker Punch will fail to KO 252/0 Mew . That's already one of the best-case scenarios a baby could hope for. NFEs just don't deal enough damage, and are not bulky nor fast enough to compete with the big guys.
Keep a mega alive for your last adult mon, and it would just be another 10 turns of things dying.

And "keeping offensive mons alive" is a bit moot when you consider that they're still doing their job of taking lives off the opposing team. Sure, you got paralyzed by Kirlia when you tried to KO Gardevoir, but remember that your clerics also have more chances to use Heal Bell. You're also now only up against a Kirlia, which means it's a LOT safer (125 vs 65 SpA) to switch in something without losing the momentum you created by KOing Gardevoir in the first place. Or you can play it smart if you think Kirlia would Thunder Wave again and just stay in to get another KO.
Even stall wouldn't get overpowered with the stay-in mechanic, because all statuses get removed upon devolution, and their moves have limited PP.

The only thing that gets boggled by this is the standard concept of "sweeping" — that is, using a single Pokemon to crush the opposing team using raw power.
I do like sweeping (I don't even know how to build stall), but it's something we can live without.

Extra stuff

I'd also refrain from using Gengar and Alakazam as examples in the future because they're pretty special in that they don't lose that much power devolving compared to most other Pokemon. They just lose 15 SpA when devolving, while others lose a LOT more.

Slowbro (100 SpA), Slowpoke (40)
Dragonite (134 Atk), Dragonair (84)
Gardevoir (125 SpA, 165 if Mega), Kirlia (65)
Bisharp (125 Atk), Pawniard (85)
Mega Lopunny (136 Atk), Buneary (66)

 

[readytolose]

Seeing as the meta isn't even coded yet, maybe we can leave it to the creator's discretion until we can test it. I think the "switching out" and "continuing attack" points have been all theorymonned out for now. Once we have to chance to try it any which way, we might be able to come to conclusions.

 

[AquaticPanic]

If I am, let's say, a Krookodile with intimidate. After I die will I have Intimidate activated again?

 

[Squawkerz]

If I am, let's say, a Krookodile with intimidate. After I die will I have Intimidate activated again?

Yes.

After thinking about it for a while, I have decided that You are able to switch after you faint, but you have the option to stay in and use your devolved form. If you use your devolved form, you will not continue the attack you are using.

:)

 

[I like donkeys]

So how will pursuit work in this metagame? Lets say i have a scarftar against a gengar and i pursuit the gar as it tries to switch out, will it devolve and then switch out, or will something else happen?