Hey everyone! I've been laddering a lot recently, at the time I'm writing this article, two of my accounts are standing at 3rd and 4th on ADV OU ladder respectively. After playing a lot after the new BP Chains rules, I still believe that Mr. Mime BP Chains are still a problem.
(For the ones that does not want to read the whole article, I recommend to read Conclusion that summaries the whole thing)
Introduction
For more than 10 years, the ADV community has been asking questions about the bans of strategies considered unhealthy, such as Trap Pass, Sand Veil teams or BP Chains. Today, almost 20 years after the third generation games were released, we are on the verge of having a completely healthy metagame. All that's left to ban, in my opinion, is the combination of Soundproof and Baton Pass on the same Pokémon.
What are Baton Pass Chains in 2022?
In 2022, after many new rules, Baton Pass Chains consist of boosting his stats, often with Ninjask, then blocking Roar by Baton Passing to Mr. Mime through his Soundproof ability, Mr. Mime can win turns with Hypnosis, Taunt and Encore, then BP on a sweeper like Marowak or Hariyama which set-up, then sweep. On top of all that, the BP Chains currently add Sand Attack to the recipe for the opponent to potentially miss. In short, the strategy is not based on good plays and good trades but relly almost entirely on luck and match-up fish. This is why I and many other players find this strategy unhealthy.
Replay examples of me playing vs myself to try to show what's a game against a BP Chain, by using multiple teams and different ways of playing:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-1536579743-suxo1lne67snebwk90kzezppfq00gdspw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-1536581886-aqzyrskcfp5k9aekhie0td6wml6kypfpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-1536584499-si8rfzw3xq3dg8cd5c8733ni48u64s4pw (YoloSkarm)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-1536585825-srlvvpn5dv6r302z8e1tn58p4gyw6zypw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-1536587375-5t592ff11kuhsjcj3kjtzkb8wyzbjwkpw
Issues
1- Discourage New Players
2- Attract Troll Players
3- Non-Fun and Unfair Strategy
1- Discourage New Players
Many players wanting to start in ADV OU start on the ladder. At low level, a lot of people get beaten by the BP Chains, because they don't know how to counter them. It gives a very bad impression of the metagame for new players. Some will get discouraged and simply forget the idea of playing ADV while others will start playing this strategy themselves. This is bad news especially for a metagame that is starting to get older. Welcoming new players seems important to me so that ADV continues to have interest for the years to come.
2- Attract Troll Players
As these techniques of BP Chains are allowed, the ADV OU ladder attracts players who only want to Troll, which is extremely annoying for anyone who will face them. It's extremely annoying for high ladder players to lose to a low level lucky player who brings a technique that relies as much on luck as it does for new players who don't know how to counter this strategy.
3- Unfun and Uncompetitive Strategy
Outside the ladder, so in tournaments, the BP Chains remain functional and can cheese competitive matches. On the other hand, at high level, almost nobody uses these BP Chains. If they are not used, it is not because the strategy is bad, but because it is considered non-fun and uncompetitive because it is mainly based on luck. All this means that players will modify their team depending on whether they play on the ladder or in a tournament. For example, some players will play Rock Slide on Hariyama in their team, but when they ladder with it, they will use Whirlwind instead to try and counter the Mr. Mime BP Chains. In short, this technique isn't fun and every serious player hate to see this strategy.
So what is the solution?
I'm one of those who think Ninjask has the potential to go healthy as a revenge killer who could follow up with a Speed Pass (which wouldn't start a chain). Mr. Mime might even become a niche unphazeable Calm Minder (not being able to Baton Pass). To do this, it would be necessary to complex-ban Soundproof + Baton Pass on the same Pokémon while keeping the other current rules. This way, it would the end for Mr. Mime Baton Pass Chains without negatively affecting the meta.
Summary and Conclusion
In short, we face several problems on the ladder and count on the good faith of the players not to use this uncompetitive technique in tournaments. Banning Baton Pass and Soundproof on the same Pokemon would make the metagame healthier, without negatively affecting the meta.
Thank you all for reading!
Mushi
(For the ones that does not want to read the whole article, I recommend to read Conclusion that summaries the whole thing)
Introduction
For more than 10 years, the ADV community has been asking questions about the bans of strategies considered unhealthy, such as Trap Pass, Sand Veil teams or BP Chains. Today, almost 20 years after the third generation games were released, we are on the verge of having a completely healthy metagame. All that's left to ban, in my opinion, is the combination of Soundproof and Baton Pass on the same Pokémon.
What are Baton Pass Chains in 2022?
In 2022, after many new rules, Baton Pass Chains consist of boosting his stats, often with Ninjask, then blocking Roar by Baton Passing to Mr. Mime through his Soundproof ability, Mr. Mime can win turns with Hypnosis, Taunt and Encore, then BP on a sweeper like Marowak or Hariyama which set-up, then sweep. On top of all that, the BP Chains currently add Sand Attack to the recipe for the opponent to potentially miss. In short, the strategy is not based on good plays and good trades but relly almost entirely on luck and match-up fish. This is why I and many other players find this strategy unhealthy.
Replay examples of me playing vs myself to try to show what's a game against a BP Chain, by using multiple teams and different ways of playing:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-1536579743-suxo1lne67snebwk90kzezppfq00gdspw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-1536581886-aqzyrskcfp5k9aekhie0td6wml6kypfpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-1536584499-si8rfzw3xq3dg8cd5c8733ni48u64s4pw (YoloSkarm)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-1536585825-srlvvpn5dv6r302z8e1tn58p4gyw6zypw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-1536587375-5t592ff11kuhsjcj3kjtzkb8wyzbjwkpw
Issues
1- Discourage New Players
2- Attract Troll Players
3- Non-Fun and Unfair Strategy
1- Discourage New Players
Many players wanting to start in ADV OU start on the ladder. At low level, a lot of people get beaten by the BP Chains, because they don't know how to counter them. It gives a very bad impression of the metagame for new players. Some will get discouraged and simply forget the idea of playing ADV while others will start playing this strategy themselves. This is bad news especially for a metagame that is starting to get older. Welcoming new players seems important to me so that ADV continues to have interest for the years to come.
2- Attract Troll Players
As these techniques of BP Chains are allowed, the ADV OU ladder attracts players who only want to Troll, which is extremely annoying for anyone who will face them. It's extremely annoying for high ladder players to lose to a low level lucky player who brings a technique that relies as much on luck as it does for new players who don't know how to counter this strategy.
3- Unfun and Uncompetitive Strategy
Outside the ladder, so in tournaments, the BP Chains remain functional and can cheese competitive matches. On the other hand, at high level, almost nobody uses these BP Chains. If they are not used, it is not because the strategy is bad, but because it is considered non-fun and uncompetitive because it is mainly based on luck. All this means that players will modify their team depending on whether they play on the ladder or in a tournament. For example, some players will play Rock Slide on Hariyama in their team, but when they ladder with it, they will use Whirlwind instead to try and counter the Mr. Mime BP Chains. In short, this technique isn't fun and every serious player hate to see this strategy.
So what is the solution?
I'm one of those who think Ninjask has the potential to go healthy as a revenge killer who could follow up with a Speed Pass (which wouldn't start a chain). Mr. Mime might even become a niche unphazeable Calm Minder (not being able to Baton Pass). To do this, it would be necessary to complex-ban Soundproof + Baton Pass on the same Pokémon while keeping the other current rules. This way, it would the end for Mr. Mime Baton Pass Chains without negatively affecting the meta.
Summary and Conclusion
In short, we face several problems on the ladder and count on the good faith of the players not to use this uncompetitive technique in tournaments. Banning Baton Pass and Soundproof on the same Pokemon would make the metagame healthier, without negatively affecting the meta.
Thank you all for reading!
Mushi
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