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All Gens Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Mark II (RoA edition)
- Thread starter Jellicent
- Start date
In gen 1 once a pokemon is frozen it never unfreezes unless hit by Haze or a Fire move. Neither of them are relevant in RBY OU so a freeze is practically a free KO.
In gen 2 a frozen pokemon has only a 10% chance to thaw.
In later gens chance to thaw is 20%.
Because it is harder to unfreeze a pokemon in the first two gens ppl feel freezes need to be limited, while it's an unnecessary mod to mechanics in later gens. This is also supported by the nature of play in the first two gens, where playing for a freeze is a more viable tactic.
That said, I think freeze clause is pants-on-head retarded in gen 2 since freezes are so much less dominating- fire moves are relevant, freezing moves are much less popular, heal bell exists and there is that chance to thaw. In gen 1 it's more understandable, but I still disagree with its implementation as the odds of multiple freezes are low, while it still represents a deviation from cartridge mechanics- they're not so gamebreaking to justify deviating from cart mechanics.
In gen 2 a frozen pokemon has only a 10% chance to thaw.
In later gens chance to thaw is 20%.
Because it is harder to unfreeze a pokemon in the first two gens ppl feel freezes need to be limited, while it's an unnecessary mod to mechanics in later gens. This is also supported by the nature of play in the first two gens, where playing for a freeze is a more viable tactic.
That said, I think freeze clause is pants-on-head retarded in gen 2 since freezes are so much less dominating- fire moves are relevant, freezing moves are much less popular, heal bell exists and there is that chance to thaw. In gen 1 it's more understandable, but I still disagree with its implementation as the odds of multiple freezes are low, while it still represents a deviation from cartridge mechanics- they're not so gamebreaking to justify deviating from cart mechanics.
oh ok, thanks for the reply. I'm trying to relearn bw after all this post excadrill ban nonsense.
No. Because Excadrill is played with Balloon most of the time so a standard Lando-T would do nothing to him, it would just set a SD or Iron Head when you do U-turn to break the Balloon and loose your HP coming on SR a second time. Not mentionning Lando-T is a bad check since it has no way to recover efficiently, he will always end up being in the range of Iron Head.
Also, in offense team, you can still go for Mach Punch Breloom to Revenge Kill him (not really better than Lando-T, but it's an option you can consider) or go for the Skarmory pivot in a less offensive archetype.
Anyway, Sand Rush Exca is to offensive sands what Kingdra is to offensive rains, it'll destroy you once you up your weather, the best answer is probably not to send Tyranitar in until Exca is dead.
Basically it would mean if you don't have a Breloom in your team you will loose to Excadrill most of time.
Landorus-T can work with superpower i think (but you will loose an important coverage move).
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Why is third-gen competitive referred to as ADV rather than RSE? I know ADV is Advanced Generation, the concurrent anime seasons, but why is that abbreviation used over the main-series games?
the system that those games were on was called the GameBoy Advance hence the "ADV"
To expand, by the time Smogon collected and formed a community and gained popularity, all of Gen 3's games were out save for XD (RSEFRLG and Colosseum, with FRLG being released in early 2004 and the Smogon forums being founded in Dec 2004, and then XD being released in Aug 2005). Because unlike the previous two gens where only 3 games existed, RBY and GSC, discounting the Stadiums since the RBY we play ignores Stadium mechanics, everyone just shorthanded Gen 3 to ADV, which referred to all of the games, rather than RSEFRLGCXD or whatever.
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I have an odd question. Does anyone know the exact moment DVs are calculated for wild Pokemon in RBY?
I ask because with RBY coming out for 3DS VC, I'm curious if it'd be feasible for me to say, Soft Reset for a Chansey in the Safari Zone by using a Save State at the right time.
I ask because with RBY coming out for 3DS VC, I'm curious if it'd be feasible for me to say, Soft Reset for a Chansey in the Safari Zone by using a Save State at the right time.
Bahawin, you seem to have forgotten the Landorus-T learns super power which OHKOs and Excadrill, and you wont sacrifice huge amounts of coverage.
What's the best way to go about learning/playing ADV? I've recently grown interested in the tier, but the showdown ladder is obviously pretty dead and I'm not really sure how to go about learning/playing the tier. Are there casual tours? Somewhere where the ladder is decent and/or not dead? Or is it too old and should I just not bother trying to learn it this late?
For playing, there's smogtours.psim.us, it's a private Showdown server that was set up for major tour games, but you can usually find a few players looking for a game in any tier, especially now seeing a lot of older players are trying to clean off the rust for SPL. I usually try to hang around there and look for games. Pokemon Online ladder is semi-dead, but every now and then you can find a few good players. Lastly, there's the ADV Cup, starts in April/May, it's a single-elimination bo3 tour. Every now and then there's also a Tournament in the tournaments forum for ADV OU or some altered format (like no-trappers, no Spikes etc.). As for learning, there's a variety of things you can use, usually just stuff like the viability rankings, example teams, good cores, and more, I'll link some later if I can get the time. It's never too late to pick up a tier (as evidenced by the list of players who learned RBY for SPL/WCoP), and I'm glad to see someone getting into ADV, it's a great metagame and I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
Hi TheyCallMeAdolf, its very cool to see someone getting into ADV. If you want to play good games against good players, try the smogtours server, you need to send a PM to either a Leader or an Admin with a link to your Smogon account profile while they are on the server or he will ignore you ( like http://www.smogon.com/forums/members/theycallmeadolf.281603/ ). Also, you can just play official and non-official tourneys on the tournament section, some good links :
ADV Resources
ADV OU Cores
Tournaments section
SPL replays
WCOP replays
ADV Resources
ADV OU Cores
Tournaments section
SPL replays
WCOP replays
Why was Snorlax and the Electrics never got banned to Ubers in the GSC era? (From what I heard, they were pretty dominating, especially Snorlax that the Viability Rankings had a Snorlax tier)
People didn't really ban pokemon back then like we do now. In GSC and ADV there was a clear divide between Ubers and OU, it was very obvious that pokemon like Metwo didn't belong in the game.
It wasn't until DPP that a regular pokemon was banned (Garchomp).
The GSC metagame is now just accepted for what it is. It functions as a metagame, so there's no need to change it.
Actually a regular Pokemon was in Ubers in ADV. Their names are Wobuffet and Wynaut.
Those are special cases for obvious reasons though.
Question: Why is it that you can use BW/ORAS mons/moves/abilities in a Gen 4 custom game but you can't use "future" stuff for any other generation's custom game? There was a tournament a while back (Time Travel Tour) that dropped a different set of future mons into DPP OU for every round, and it was really neat. Is there any reason why Gen 4 can do that while the other gens reject you if you try?
Like, it'd be interesting to see how, say, ADV stuff could work in GSC where the metagame is just so different, you know? The underlying mechanics of many future things can be thrown back into older gens: Calm Mind, for example, could theoretically exist in GSC because the Special stat split is present there and Curse already exists. (As opposed to RBY where it might get weird with only one stat?) Snow Warning could definitely exist in ADV because Sand Stream does the exact same thing already. I'm not saying we try to implement Megas or something ridiculously unprecedented into GSC, but for stuff that has a foundation in older gens, it could be fun to mess around with.
Some replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4customgame-80929
This replay shows a Volcarona and Talonflame. Volcarona can use Quiver Dance and Cristal stated on the tournament thread that she had a Gale Wings Talonflame even though it didn't really accomplish much. (It scared out the QD Volc, but you wouldn't have been able to tell it was Gale Wings otherwise.)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4customgame-82447
Replay from the finals of the Time Travel Tour in which Aegislash is actually able to use Stance Change properly in a Gen 4 environment!
I was testing some stuff last night in Gen 4 Customs, and you can actually even Mega and use the Mega abilities that "shouldn't" exist. I was able to KO a Mismagius with M-Pinsir's Return, showing that Aerialate and Mega Evolution works. Fairy typing is weird in that it doesn't have any resistances or weaknesses (I tested with a Dragon Claw/Close Combat/Sludge/Iron Head Salamence and nothing was SE/resisted/immune), but Moonblast does hit Salamence for SE damage. I have no idea what that's about.
So why should anyone care?
Well, we already have the "What If?" thread which is a very fun read if you like theorymonning, and this shows that that theorymonning could easily be put into practice. Instead of a few vague posts on a certain topic, you could create basically a pseudo-OM in an old gen, complete with replays. It would be a bit of fun in metas that haven't really changed too much in years. (Excepting RBY Body Slam and ADV Sleep Talk mechanic changes, of course.) It'd also allow for the creation of more Time Travel Tour-esque/"non-standard" tournaments for older gens. RBY probably wouldn't handle a lot of this stuff, but at least GSC/ADV could have some fun.
I know that no one probably cares because it's such a miniscule, unimportant thing that no one really wants to waste time with and because SPL is coming up, but I just thought I'd throw it out there. Zarel's latest teambuilder update means Old Gen development is basically done for now, as far as I can tell, so this might be a fun thing to low-key work on?
Sorry for taking up your time.I just want a CM Raikou in GSC.
Like, it'd be interesting to see how, say, ADV stuff could work in GSC where the metagame is just so different, you know? The underlying mechanics of many future things can be thrown back into older gens: Calm Mind, for example, could theoretically exist in GSC because the Special stat split is present there and Curse already exists. (As opposed to RBY where it might get weird with only one stat?) Snow Warning could definitely exist in ADV because Sand Stream does the exact same thing already. I'm not saying we try to implement Megas or something ridiculously unprecedented into GSC, but for stuff that has a foundation in older gens, it could be fun to mess around with.
Some replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4customgame-80929
This replay shows a Volcarona and Talonflame. Volcarona can use Quiver Dance and Cristal stated on the tournament thread that she had a Gale Wings Talonflame even though it didn't really accomplish much. (It scared out the QD Volc, but you wouldn't have been able to tell it was Gale Wings otherwise.)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4customgame-82447
Replay from the finals of the Time Travel Tour in which Aegislash is actually able to use Stance Change properly in a Gen 4 environment!
I was testing some stuff last night in Gen 4 Customs, and you can actually even Mega and use the Mega abilities that "shouldn't" exist. I was able to KO a Mismagius with M-Pinsir's Return, showing that Aerialate and Mega Evolution works. Fairy typing is weird in that it doesn't have any resistances or weaknesses (I tested with a Dragon Claw/Close Combat/Sludge/Iron Head Salamence and nothing was SE/resisted/immune), but Moonblast does hit Salamence for SE damage. I have no idea what that's about.
So why should anyone care?
Well, we already have the "What If?" thread which is a very fun read if you like theorymonning, and this shows that that theorymonning could easily be put into practice. Instead of a few vague posts on a certain topic, you could create basically a pseudo-OM in an old gen, complete with replays. It would be a bit of fun in metas that haven't really changed too much in years. (Excepting RBY Body Slam and ADV Sleep Talk mechanic changes, of course.) It'd also allow for the creation of more Time Travel Tour-esque/"non-standard" tournaments for older gens. RBY probably wouldn't handle a lot of this stuff, but at least GSC/ADV could have some fun.
I know that no one probably cares because it's such a miniscule, unimportant thing that no one really wants to waste time with and because SPL is coming up, but I just thought I'd throw it out there. Zarel's latest teambuilder update means Old Gen development is basically done for now, as far as I can tell, so this might be a fun thing to low-key work on?
Sorry for taking up your time.
Well it depends on what kind of team you want to build. If you like special attackers, then cm spam mons like cune, raikou/rachi and celebi works fine with the rest of the team giving it support to get rid of sp walls. If you like physical spam, band mence, dd tar and band gross are easy to build around. If stall teams are up your alley, there are pert, skarm, and bliss. These are generic choices though. There are many more mons (ex: gengar, zapdos, starmie, etc) that are fairly easy to build around. That's the beauty of ADV. So many pokemon are equally viable in ou more so than any other gen imo. Hope that helps.
So I've been having some problems with GSC so-called standard sets and legality issues, specifiaclly:
Umbreon can't use Rest, Toxic and Pursuit with Charm for some reason.
Scizor can't use Swords Dance with Baton Pass.
Charizard can't use Fire Blast and Earthquake with Belly Drum.
Feraligatr (lol) can't use Hydro Pump and Rock Slide together.
What's the matter?
Umbreon can't use Rest, Toxic and Pursuit with Charm for some reason.
Scizor can't use Swords Dance with Baton Pass.
Charizard can't use Fire Blast and Earthquake with Belly Drum.
Feraligatr (lol) can't use Hydro Pump and Rock Slide together.
What's the matter?
Also, don't forgot to handle major threats of the metagame like Gengar, Choice Bander/Dragon Dancers (Physical attackers, switch-in on most coverage move of cb users ect), electric types and to still have good way to get past of certain playstyles, to build, for me its hard since you don't have too many idea when you start the tier so, try to find a good one, build around a core or just try to test a mon : Explosion Gengar + Special sweeper, Magneton + DD Mence ect ...
Erai14
Those sound like problems with egg moves. Egg moves have been acting up in our teambuilder when they're not the last moves of a set, so try moving around the order of moves and seeing if that helps any. Those all should be legal, I believe, but I'm not a GSCer, so I may be wrong.