Anti-Vaxxers

[pyuk]

Approved by Eevee General
[if you feel like making a banner, go ahead]
Anti-Vaxxers​

Ever since Gen 1, immunities have been very important, both for switch-ins and walling. Indeed, many defensive Pokemon rely on their typing's immunities to keep them alive, like Sableye and Skarmory. There are also plenty of sweepers that use their immunities to switch in and set up, and to make them harder to revenge-kill. This meta removes all those immunities, and more besides.


Rules:

Mechanic: Immunities provided by a Pokemon's typing are negated. This includes immunities to things such as status effects.

Full List of changes to individual types:

Hide

Normal: No immunity to Ghost type attacks
Flying: No immunity to Ground type attacks, ground based hazards, damage from Sky Drop, or Arena Trap
Poison: No immunity to the Poisoned or the Badly Poisoned statuses.
Ground: No immunity to Electric type attacks, no immunity to Thunder Wave.
Ghost: No immunity to Normal type attacks, no immunity to Fighting type attacks, no immunity to trapping effects.
Steel: No immunity to Poison type attacks, no immunity to the Poisoned or the Badly Poisoned statuses.
Fire: No immunity to the Burned status.
Grass: No immunity to Powder Moves, no immunity to Leech Seed.
Electric: No immunity to the Paralyzed status.
Ice: No immunity to the Frozen status.
Dark: No immunity to Psychic type attacks.
Fairy: No immunity to Dragon type attacks.

Clauses: OU Clauses
Bans: Nothing new for now.
Unbans: A tentative unban on Aegislash, because it's now weak to Fighting, and can be hit by Toxic which seriously reduces the effectiveness of King's Shield. I'm also considering unbanning Landorus-Incarnate, because it loses two immunities and gains a weakness Ho-Oh, because of its weakness to the almighty Ground type and vulnerability to burns.


Strategy:

The core mechanic of this metagame means that a lot of things that normally work, don't. Many type combiniations aren't nearly as good as before, while others are significantly improved. For example, Dragon/Ground now has perfect neutral coverage, because Whimsicott, Skarmory, and Togekiss no longer wall it. This means that Garchomp, and many other Pokemon, no longer have to run coverage moves and can run boosting or recovery instead. However, many sweepers are now vulnerable to certain types of status, i.e. Garchomp can severly crippled with Thunder Wave. Thus I predict Substitute being on almost every Pokemon, which would subsequently increase the viability of sound based moves, Infiltrator, and Whirlwind.

Threatlist:

Hide

Breloom: Being able to throw Leech Seed at Grass types and hit Ghost types with Fighting STABs is going to be pretty useful, and Poison Heal makes it one of the few Pokemon to be immune to any non-volatile status conditions (after being poisoned).

Mega Charizard X: With fairies out of the picture, Fire/Dragon has perfect neutral coverage, barring Heatran. This means running Dragon Dance + Roost + STABs is incredibly powerful, but beware! If Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes are up, Charizard loses 75% of its max HP when switching in, and it can be seriously crippled with burn.

Garchomp: Unless you find yourself facing the almighty Bronzong, Garchomp now has better coverage than it ever did in gen V. Thunder wave is a serious threat though, so this might be a case where Mega Garchomp's high power and lowered speed might actually come in handy.

Rotom-Fan: As the only Electric/Flying type with a ground immunity, Rotom-Fan actually has a niche in this meta, and Electric/Flying coverage is even better now than it normally is. Rotom-Fan also has access to the buffed Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave/Discharge, which is important to stop some sweepers.

Lati@s: Other than Flygon, Claydol, and Cryogonal, the Lati's are the only Pokemon with Levitate that can also remove hazards, which will be a big issue as most defoggers take a lot of damage from Spikes and Stealth Rock. They also don't get walled nearly as hard by Fairy and Dark types (though Bisharp is still an issue).

Thundurus-Therian: Thundurus-T is one of the best Pokemon to get an Electric-immune ability, and you'll need it to try and beat the otherwise unstoppable Volt Switch. It's also one of the few Pokemon that can still switch in on Thunder Wave. Just beware of its new weakness to Earthquake.

Galvantula: Easily the best setter of Sticky Web (except maybe Smeargle), Galvantula has a lot going for it in this meta. Since Flying types are no longer immune to Sticky Web, it becomes a much more valuable hazard to set up, and not even Ground types can stop it from Volt Switching out, or from tossing around 91% accurate STAB Thunder.

Slowbro: Already a strong physical wall, Slowbro has the benefit of being able to burn Fire types with a super effective STAB Scald, while not losing any immunities from its Water/Psychic typing. Electric type counters also have a harder time switching in thanks to Thunder Wave.

Q&A:
Q: Do abilities that provide an immunity to a certain type of attack, such as Lighting Rod, still work?
A: Yes, those abilities still work the same as they normally do.

Q: What about abilities like Magma Armor or Overcoat?
A: Yes, those still work too. This meta doesn't change the way any abilities work, only typings.

Q: So the ability Scrappy is pretty much useless, isn't it?
A: Yeah, it doesn't actually do anything. Sorry, Mega Lopunny.

Q: Wait, so what happens when a Poison type Pokemon switches in on Toxic Spikes?
A: The spikes dissapear, and the Pokemon is not poisoned.

Q: What is the actual type effectiveness on types that would normally be immune? For example, does Ghost resist Normal, is it weak to it, or neutral?
A: The new type chart changes all immunities into neutralities, so for instance Talonflame is now 2x weak to Earthquake.

Q: Why is it called "Anti-Vaxxers?"
A: An "anti-vaxxer" is someone who is against vaccinations. Vaccinations help provide immunities to specific diseases, and this meta removes immunities, hence the name.

Q: How does Synchronoise work? Does it hit everything now?
A: Because Synchronoise is dependent on the user's typing as well as the target's typing, it remains largely unchanged, although it can hit Dark Types if the user is Dark type as well.

Q: Are Flying types still "immune" to terrains?
A: After some discussion, the council has decided that this would be inconsistent, so for all intents and purposes, Flying types are to be considered grounded without Levitate, Air Balloon, etc.


Resources:

Playable on Dragon Heaven. Code thanks to Ghoul King. http://pastebin.com/5YAFBhYc (does not include the change to terrains)

Replay (i'm bad lol):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-antivaxxers-5

Council: Me, nv, and Quantum Tesseract

 

[pyuk]

Reserved

 

[SpiderKoloPL]

(...)
Threatlist:
Breloom: Being able to throw Leech Seed at Grass types and hit Ghost types with Fighting STABs is going to be pretty useful, and Poison Heal makes it one of the few Pokemon to be immune to any non-volatile status conditions (after being poisoned).

Mega Charizard X: With fairies out of the picture, Fire/Dragon has perfect neutral coverage. This means running Dragon Dance + Roost + STABs is incredibly powerful, but beware! If Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes are up, Charizard loses 75% of its max HP when switching in, and it can be seriously crippled with burn.

Rotom-Fan: As the only Electric/Flying type with a ground immunity, Rotom-Fan actually has a niche in this meta, and Electric/Flying coverage is even better now than it normally is. Rotom-Fan also has access to the buffed Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave/Discharge, which is important to stop some sweepers.

Lati@s: Other than Flygon, Claydol, and Cryogonal, the Lati's are the only Pokemon with Levitate that can also remove hazards, which will be a big issue as most defoggers take a lot of damage from Spikes and Stealth Rock. They also don't get walled nearly as hard by Fairy and Dark types (though Bisharp is still an issue).

Thundurus-Therian: Thundurus-T is one of the best Pokemon to get an Electric-immune ability, and you'll need it to try and beat the otherwise unstoppable Volt Switch. It's also one of the few Pokemon that can still switch in on Thunder Wave. Just beware of its new weakness to Earthquake.

Galvantula(!): Easily the best setter of Sticky Web (except maybe Smeargle), Galvantula has a lot going for it in this meta. Since Flying types are no longer immune to Sticky Web, it becomes a much more valuable hazard to set up, and not even Ground types can stop it from Volt Switching out, or from tossing around 91% accurate STAB Thunder.
Slowbro: Already a strong physical wall, Slowbro has the benefit of being able to burn Fire types with a super effective STAB Scald, while not losing any immunities from its Water/Psychic typing. Electric type counters also have a harder time switching in thanks to Thunder Wave.
(...)

Well...
Definitly I want to use this new God on this meta in every team.

My favorite pokemon have here really good time - hit really strong nearly everything, and web finally can catch birds! :D

Oh...
And Limber Stunfisk finaly have sence.
Edit: for some reasons I have double quote in post...
I can't remove this...

 

[Akumeoy]

So a tacit Gravity in effect all the time makes Groundspam an enticing prospect. Lacking an immunity to Electric-types isn't so terrible when all of them except Rotom-Wash (shut up Eeelektross) are hit hard by EQs anyways.

On the flip side, Electric-types also got loads better. With precious few Pokemon actually stealing momentum away from a Volt Switch, Mega Manectric looks like a prime mega. Mega Sceptile could be interesting too, with its own Electric immunity and ability to switch in on Earthquake.

Also, stall got worse, because it lost the ability to completely no-sell certain attacks. Like, Skarmory is Ground-weak now. Have fun finding something to tank SD Lando-T. Though, Amoonguss's Spore doesn't have switchins outside of Safety Goggles and Magic Bounce... hm.

 

[Stocke]

Pokémon with ability-based immunities look to be crucial here, seeing as there are no other ways of having Pokémon with immunities (besides certain moves like Magnet Rise, but that's highly situational). That said though, those abilities still get bypassed by Mold Breaker... maybe the likes of Haxorus will be good here?

Speaking of Haxorus, Dragon is a greatly improved attacking type here, perhaps even better than it was in Gen 5 because the types that pair with it (particularly Ground and Fighting) now have very few, or none at all, Pokémon that they can't hit. It still struggles with not being able to hit many things super-effectively, but the fantastic neutral coverage and the variety of powerful abusers should make up for it.

Also, Mega Sceptile might be good here because it's one of very few Pokémon that can block the inevitable Volt Switch spam and make use of the boost Lightning Rod gives. Unblockable Dragon STAB helps, too.

edit: no wait use Thundurus-T instead, in addition to blocking Volt Switch it can also make use of Volt Switch itself. M-Sceptile is definitely improved though

edit 2: Mold Breaker on a Dragon-type might not be necessary, because flat-out the only thing that resists a Dragon/Ground combo is Levitate Bronzong, and Bronzong is sort of a niche thing to run in a meta that looks to be primarily offensive. On the other hand, Fire/Dragon has Heatran, which is already OU-viable thanks to not only its Fire immunity but its high all-around stats, but unfortunately Ground attacks destroy it. In that case, the best user of Mold Breaker (well, outside of Excadrill) is probably Mega Ampharos. A totally unblockable Volt Switch coming off a 165 base Special Attack isn't something to overlook.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

Things helped by this meta:
Ground types
Dragon types
Status users
Psychics
Fighters
Ghosts
electrics
Normals
Poison

Things helped by likely metagame trends (+ground,+dragon, +psychic)
Grass
Steel
Bug
Levitate
Waters

Additnal threats to watch out for:

landorus

with ground as nigh-perfect coverage, Landorus is all set to sweep. Whether its the rock polish set with a more spammable attack or the choice scarf set being nearly impossible to switch into, this pokemon loves its new role.
Almost certain to make that small jump to s rank.

garchomp

Garchomp now has perfect coverage bar Bronzong and klefki, so it finds that is has plenty of options for its last two moves. Swords dance, substitute, second dragon stab, rock polish... the list goes on.
Likely another S Rank stable

bronzong

This pokemon finally has a chance to shine! Between its screens, coveted ground immunity, nice steel typing, and good defensive stats, it is sure to be a stable on stall.
Probably Mid B ranks

klefki

While it cries itself to sleep over its new poison weakness, Klefki isn't particularly harmed by the meta. Further, priority magnet rise gives is whole new opportunities to wall things, and it loves the fact that few things are immune to twave. Easy A+ rank

breloom (his stuff, plus

As the only viable pokemon to resist edgequake, breloom has always had a defensive niche. With poison heal rendering it immune to the now rampant statuses and giving it recovery, it certainly has that role down. Further, It is the only viable pokemon to resist ground period without levitate bar Mega Sceptile and Heracross (sorry scolipede, beedrill, venusaur, amoongus- get a better second type). It also gets the nice buff of ghost not being immune to fighting and grass types not immune to spore.

Mega Latias

Since dark types no longer turn it into so much dead weight, latias is looking better than ever. It has the bulk to easily set up calm minds and sweep with stored power. It also doesn't need to run dark coverage, so its free to try gimmicks like reflect type, refresh, or just psyshock for chansey.

talonflame

WHile it doesn't benefit (and in fact loses out), talonburd has the huge niche in utterly curbstomping every check and gounter Garchomp/lando posses. It even gets uturn to ease prediction

Role compendium (focusing on changed roles, all else is standard/more viable/missed by me):
Ground checks:
-Klefki
-Bronzong
-Breloom
-Lati@s
-Cresselia
-Latias-Mega
-Celebi

Dragon Checks:
-Skarmory
-Klefki
-Bronzong
-Metagross-Mega
-Ferrothorn

Status Checks:
-Sableye-Mega
-Diancie-Mega
-Espeon
-Breloom
-Gliscor
-Chansey
-Starmie
-Celebi

Fighting Checks:
-Latia@s
-Alakazam
-Alakazam-Mega
-Espeon
-Cresselia
-Latias-Mega
-Togekiss
-Venusaur-Mega
-Talonflame
-Zapdos
-Gardevior-Mega

Ghost Checks-
-Hoopa-U
-Bisharp
-Mandibuzz
-Chansey (bar aegi)

Psychic checks:
-Metagross-Mega
-Bronzong
-Bisharp
-Espeon
-Lati@s
-Latias-Mega
-Cresselia
-Hoopa-U


Ground Threats:
-Lando-T
-Garchomp
-Excadrill

Psychic Threats:
-Lati@s
-Latias-Mega
-Espeon
-Hoopa-U
-Medicham-Mega

Dragon Threats:
-Garchomp
-Dragonite
-Zygarde
-Lati@s
-Latias-Mega
-Haxorus
-Salamence
-Kyurem-Black
-Kyurem-N

Fighting Threats:
Keldeo
Heracross-Mega
Medicham-Mega
Conkeldurr
Terrakion

Status Threats:
-Klefki
-Sableye
-Cresselia
-Chansey
-Thundurus-T

 

[canno]

I can see a rise in mono-attackers since there is no more type-immunities around now. One of my favorites in particular makes a comback here

Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 136 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Roost
- Dragon Tail
- Hone Claws

we /gen5/ again boiz. I would change the EVs, as they are specialized to allow the Sub to not break against Gen 5 threats, but I'm lazy atm so you get the old spread :]

 

[bp scrub]

Didnt really play gen 5 OU so i dont really remember, but iirc dragon spam was pretty good? It should work just as well here, and you can just put EQ on stuff since mons like Skarm dont wall a lot of dragons anymore.

 

[sin(pi)]

Dragmag is back :]

-ate users can run Facade to act as status absorbers in a pinch.

 

[nv]

This metagame is absolutely mind-boggling (similar to Inverse lol) as so many Pokemon rely on their typing for immunities to status and particular moves. I'm going to go through each type's advantages and disadvantages by this new mechanic change.

Types

Normal

Advantages + Disadvantages

With access to STAB Facade and status running rampant, Normals have now gained a pretty powerful STAB albeit not as reliable as Return / Double-Edge. Normals also benefit from Ghost-types losing their immunity to their STAB making them only having to worry about Rock- and Steel-types as resists still apply. While Mega-Lopunny's ability is useless in this meta, it is still a decent Mega as it has the same great neutral coverage it does in standard play. Chansey also benefits from this change as its main source of damage, Seismic Toss, now has no immunities, which means it can reliably wear down the opponent. Since Normal lost their only "advantage", they are now neutral to literally every type in the game bar Fighting-type which hits them super effectively. Granted not much has truly changed in this aspect, but Normal losing its only advantage is a big disadvantage.

Flying

Advantages + Disadvantages

Sadly, Flying took a major hit as now they lose immunity to ground-based hazards (Spikes and Toxic Spikes) as well as Ground-type moves. It also gains no true advantage as it doesn't benefit from anything losing its type immunities. This isn't to say Flying-types aren't going to still do well thanks to it being such a potent offensive typing, but being weak to common things that they are normally immune to makes them hard pressed to be as prominent.

Poison

Advantages + Disadvantages

Poison typing, depending on TSpikes being absorbed before or after being poisoned, is going to be somewhat of a staple in this meta. While they are immune to the soon-to-be prominent Ground-types, being able to absorb TSpikes (which everything barring Levitate mons are crippled by) is going to be a really good thing in this sort of meta. If they can't absorb before being poisoned, that will be a bummer :( Poison-types also have a huge problem as most of them are weak to Ground-types,a pretty big typing in this meta.

Ground

Advantages + Disadvantages

Ground type benefits the most from this mechanic change as Bug and Grass are the only switchins to their STAB moves and most have secondary typings that make them neutral to it i.e. Scizor, Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur. While their STABs are near-spammable, Levitate mons are going to be really good in this OM as their ability is nigh indispensable. Fast Ground-types such as Garchomp and Sand Rush Excadrill also really hate the fact of losing an immunity to Thunder Wave as they can now be more easily crippled now.

Ghost

Advantages + Disadvantages

Ghost is another one that took a major hit with this OM as losing two immunities really hurts Ghost-types' switch-in opportunities. That being said, Ghost is even more spammable now as there are no immunities and only one resist (Dark) of their STAB moves. Most Ghost-types also have ways around certain Dark-types meaning they could be proven to become big offensive threats as their defensive utility is now lost in this meta.

Steel

Advantages + Disadvantages

If any type suffered the biggest hit, it has to be Steel-type. Steel-types immunity to the Poison status was a big boon in standard play and now that they have lost that, most Steel-types are weak to all status moves, making them the most status prone in this meta. Steel type also didn't really gain any advantages in this meta either as their STAB is nearly as bad as it was in Generation 5 as Fairy-types are no longer immune to Dragon-type attacks. That being said, Steel-types are now the only thing resisting Dragon-types, making them the most prominent wall for the now prominent Dragon-types.

Fire

Advantages + Disadvantages

Fire-types losing their immunity to burn means physical attacking Fire-types are going to suffer. Luckily, most viable Fire-types are special based meaning this doesn't affect them too much, but it also provides another way to wear them down which isn't a good thing. Fire-types also gain the advantage of being able to burn other Fire-types due to most of them knowing Will-o-Wisp. Scald also becomes even more of a pain against Fire-types as not only is it supereffective, but it now has a chance to burn them thanks to the lack of Burn immunity.

Grass

Advantages + Disadvantages

The fact of not being immune to Powder moves is reminiscent of Generation 5, but no longer being immune to Leech Seed is a big thing as now the only way around Leech Seed's passive damage is Magic Guard and Substitute. This disadvantage is also proven as an advantage because this means Spore and Sleep Powder are more spammable (Sleep Clause is still a thing though).

Electric

Advantages + Disadvantages

Electric-types got both a buff and a nerf. While being able to be Paralyzed is just reverting back to Gen 5 mechanics, they have lost a valuable switchin in Ground-types as they can now freely hit them with their STAB moves, making Volt Switch a very powerful move in this meta. It also means only Lightningrod and Votl Absorb users can block their STAB moves, making them nearly as spammable as Ghost-types.

Ice

Advantages + Disadvantages

While a small change, being no longer immune to the haxy status known as Frozen status isn't too big of a change since Freeze isn't as prominent of a status as Burn, Toxic, and Paralyze.

Dark

Advantages + Disadvantages

Losing the Psychic immunity doesn't affect too many Dark-types as most viable ones are either neutral or still resist Psychic-type moves, but they do lose a ton of switch-in opportunities which can prove a tad annoying. Overall, not too much of a change, rather an annoying change.

Fairy

Advantages + Disadvantages

Losing their Dragon immunity is the reason they were made in Generation 6, which makes Dragons raise back to the glory of Gen 5. Fairy does have the advantage of still hitting them super effectively, but losing the switch-in ability is a really big hit to the Fairy type itself.

Notable Abilities

Water immunities: Dry Skin, Water Absorb, Storm Drain
Fire Immunities: Flash Fire
Electric Immunities: Volt Absorb, Lightningrod, Motor Drive
Ground Immunities: Levitate
Grass Immunities: Sap Sipper

Notable Threats

Both of Gengar's STABs got buffed as Normal-types are no longer immune to Ghost and Steel-types are no longer immune to Poison. Gengar even has Levitate, which is of even more prominence in this meta as Ground-types are going to be a major threat thanks to them losing their opposing type immunities. Gengar also has an amazing base 110 Speed tier, which outspeeds a common Ground-type in Landorus-Therian.

Speaking of Landorus-T, this thing is absolutely devastating in the meta. Base 145 Attack with a spammable STAB Earthquake is going to hurt. The fact it also has access to U-turn means it can gain a lot of momentum. Choice Scarf sets will become pretty popular as a cleaner and momentum grabber. Double Dance is even better as well since EdgeQuake coverage is going to be even better than it already is.

The only OU Pokemon to resist EdgeQuake, Breloom gains a ton viability as it has a better time spreading sleep with Spore, a great status absorber thanks to Poison Heal + Toxic Orb, and a decent mono-STAB in Fighting. While it loses its immunity to Powder moves and Leech Seed, SubPunch Breloom avoids all of that, edging out a slightly bigger niche than other Grass-types.

The Lati twins no longer have type immunities to worry about when it comes to either of their STABs; however, Steel-types still wall both of them.

Pokemon That Suffered

Flying-types really hate the fact that they lose not only their Ground immunity, but their immunity to entry hazards such as Spikes, Sticky Web, and Toxic Spikes. Most common Flying-types such as Talonflame, Mega Charizard Y, and Skarmory also gain a Ground weakness in this meta, which is going to be proven to be hard to get around. Talonflame at least has priority to back it up, but I feel Flying-types in general will not be as great as they normally are.

Mega Sableye is going to have a very hard time as it loses 3 immunities and is really slow in a somewhat more offensively inclined metagame. Sableye in general also can't check the things it can as it lost so many switch in opportunities, gained a weakness, and has zero bulk in its normal Forme.

Phew this took awhile, but I wanted to give a good outline of the metagame and be as helpful as possible. Future sets to come! n_n

 

[Ghoul King]

Code-wise, I can say with confidence that Showdown's code removes hazards before attempting to set a status. Whether that's reflective of the carts is another matter.

Mega Charizard X: With fairies out of the picture, Fire/Dragon has perfect neutral coverage. This means running Dragon Dance + Roost + STABs is incredibly powerful, but beware! If Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes are up, Charizard loses 75% of its max HP when switching in, and it can be seriously crippled with burn.

Er, what? It ran Earthquake for Heatran. It's always run Earthquake for Heatran. Furthermore, its sweep can be stopped by a Will O Wisp, such as from Sableye. (Prankster) There's specific matchups it's been helped with -such as Azumarill- but Mega Charizard X hasn't actually benefited that much from the meta, and is arguably overall worse.

Mega Latias
Since dark types no longer turn it into so much dead weight, latias is looking better than ever. It has the bulk to easily set up calm minds and sweep with stored power. It also doesn't need to run dark coverage, so its free to try gimmicks like reflect type or just psyshock for chansey.

If you're going for the Stored Power Sweep, Psyshock is kind of unnecessary. Take Refresh so you can laugh at Chansey's puny attempts to take you down with Toxic or slow you up with Thunder Wave.

Dragon Checks:
-Skarmory
-Klefki
-Bronzong
-Metagross-Mega
-Ferrothorn

Fairies have to be more careful about switching in, but they're still super effective against Dragon, so they're still checks.

Status Checks:
-Sableye-Mega
-Diancie-Mega
-Espeon
-Breloom
-Gliscor
-Chansey

What, no Starmie? It doesn't suffer any from the meta itself, and indeed now you can't spinblock it nor are Dark types remotely safe. It can also spread Paralysis even more safely as it largely no longer has to fear the possibility of an Electric type using an attempted Thunder Wave to switch in safely, and has a shot of Burning Mega Charizard X with Scald if it thinks it's safe Dragon Dancing in front of Starmie... and it has Natural Cure to laugh at your statuses.

Fighting Checks:
-Latia@s
-Alakazam
-Alakazam-Mega
-Espeon
-Cresselia
-Latias-Mega

Gardevoir double resists, Togekiss double resists, Zapdos is still a bulky resist and appreciates increased spammability of Volt Switch/Thunder Wave, Espeon and Alakazam are way too fragile to be any kind of check to Fighting, Clefable resists and retains Unaware for blocking your setup Fighting types, Gengar's Poison typing still means it can usually tank a Mach Punch or two, Talonflame remains a perfectly function Fighting stop, Mega Venusaur is still a good stop to Fighting especially since it laughs off Knock Off... Cresselia and the Latis make sense to be on this list, but the rest I don't get.

Ghost Checks-
-Hoopa-U
-Bisharp
-Mandibuzz
-Chansey (bar aegi)

Er, people almost never fell back on Normal types to wall Ghosts in the first place, bar Chansey which still walls the Special ones. (ie most of them)

Not much has actually changed for Ghost's, offensively, except indirectly. (eg Dark suffering from no longer walling Psychic may promote Steel which doesn't resist Ghost)

Ground Threats:
-Lando-T
-Garchomp

Why isn't Excadrill in this list? It was banned in Gen V, and now it doesn't even need to bother with Rock Slide! Mold Breaker sets are walled by nothing.

Psychic Threats:
-Lati@s
-Latias-Mega
-Espeon
-Hoopa-U
-Medicham-Mega

Hoopa-Unbound honestly benefits fairly little from the meta. Its Psychic STAB is fairly underwhelming anyway, and Drain Punch's buff is barely relevant -Hyperspace Fury hits Sableye just as hard as Drain Punch!

Dragon Threats:
All of them

Fixed it for you.

Fighting Threats:
Keldeo
Heracross-Mega
Medicham-Mega

No Conkeldurr? (One of the only good Physical attackers around that laughs at your Burn attempt) No Terrakion? Also seems odd to leave out Breloom after playing it up as edgequake resistant. (Which is honestly pretty irrelevant since edgequake is for Flying types -the utility against Bugs is secondary and there's better things to be bringing to bear against Grass type)

No idea why Mega Heracross is being noted in this list, as it gains only a little from the meta. It doesn't even like using Close Combat if it can avoid it, and Pins Missile/Rock Blast/Bullet Seed all derive zero benefit from the meta. (Admittedly, it at least doesn't suffer)

---

Other things worth noting.

-Fake Out is way more reliable.

-Linoone's Bellyspeed is way more reliable, and it can even ruin Skarmory with friggin' Dig. No need to waste a move slot on Shadow Claw, in particular.

-Mega Beedrill is your new god. Yes, actually run Poison Jab. Kill things with it. Even Skarmory isn't entirely safe switching into you now, and Ferrothorn is risking being murdered.

-Explosion is a lot scarier again, now that you can't just switch in Gengar to waste it entirely.

-Shedinja! Give it time and it can Shadow Sneak sweep your entire team, and it's still immune to such things as your Garchomp that thought it could run Earthquake/Outrage/Swords Dance/Stealth Rock. ("But Rough Skin will kill it!" you say. Yeah, except Shedinja can just drop a Will O Wisp on it and wait)

 

[pyuk]

Code-wise, I can say with confidence that Showdown's code removes hazards before attempting to set a status. Whether that's reflective of the carts is another matter.



Er, what? It ran Earthquake for Heatran. It's always run Earthquake for Heatran. Furthermore, its sweep can be stopped by a Will O Wisp, such as from Sableye. (Prankster) There's specific matchups it's been helped with -such as Azumarill- but Mega Charizard X hasn't actually benefited that much from the meta, and is arguably overall worse.



If you're going for the Stored Power Sweep, Psyshock is kind of unnecessary. Take Refresh so you can laugh at Chansey's puny attempts to take you down with Toxic or slow you up with Thunder Wave.



Fairies have to be more careful about switching in, but they're still super effective against Dragon, so they're still checks.



What, no Starmie? It doesn't suffer any from the meta itself, and indeed now you can't spinblock it nor are Dark types remotely safe. It can also spread Paralysis even more safely as it largely no longer has to fear the possibility of an Electric type using an attempted Thunder Wave to switch in safely, and has a shot of Burning Mega Charizard X with Scald if it thinks it's safe Dragon Dancing in front of Starmie... and it has Natural Cure to laugh at your statuses.



Gardevoir double resists, Togekiss double resists, Zapdos is still a bulky resist and appreciates increased spammability of Volt Switch/Thunder Wave, Espeon and Alakazam are way too fragile to be any kind of check to Fighting, Clefable resists and retains Unaware for blocking your setup Fighting types, Gengar's Poison typing still means it can usually tank a Mach Punch or two, Talonflame remains a perfectly function Fighting stop, Mega Venusaur is still a good stop to Fighting especially since it laughs off Knock Off... Cresselia and the Latis make sense to be on this list, but the rest I don't get.



Er, people almost never fell back on Normal types to wall Ghosts in the first place, bar Chansey which still walls the Special ones. (ie most of them)

Not much has actually changed for Ghost's, offensively, except indirectly. (eg Dark suffering from no longer walling Psychic may promote Steel which doesn't resist Ghost)



Why isn't Excadrill in this list? It was banned in Gen V, and now it doesn't even need to bother with Rock Slide! Mold Breaker sets are walled by nothing.



Hoopa-Unbound honestly benefits fairly little from the meta. Its Psychic STAB is fairly underwhelming anyway, and Drain Punch's buff is barely relevant -Hyperspace Fury hits Sableye just as hard as Drain Punch!



Fixed it for you.



No Conkeldurr? (One of the only good Physical attackers around that laughs at your Burn attempt) No Terrakion? Also seems odd to leave out Breloom after playing it up as edgequake resistant. (Which is honestly pretty irrelevant since edgequake is for Flying types -the utility against Bugs is secondary and there's better things to be bringing to bear against Grass type)

No idea why Mega Heracross is being noted in this list, as it gains only a little from the meta. It doesn't even like using Close Combat if it can avoid it, and Pins Missile/Rock Blast/Bullet Seed all derive zero benefit from the meta. (Admittedly, it at least doesn't suffer)

---

Other things worth noting.

-Fake Out is way more reliable.

-Linoone's Bellyspeed is way more reliable, and it can even ruin Skarmory with friggin' Dig. No need to waste a move slot on Shadow Claw, in particular.

-Mega Beedrill is your new god. Yes, actually run Poison Jab. Kill things with it. Even Skarmory isn't entirely safe switching into you now, and Ferrothorn is risking being murdered.

-Explosion is a lot scarier again, now that you can't just switch in Gengar to waste it entirely.

-Shedinja! Give it time and it can Shadow Sneak sweep your entire team, and it's still immune to such things as your Garchomp that thought it could run Earthquake/Outrage/Swords Dance/Stealth Rock. ("But Rough Skin will kill it!" you say. Yeah, except Shedinja can just drop a Will O Wisp on it and wait)

Okay, first of all, this meta has been up for 12 hours, so do try to be a little less vindictive in your critiques. Now on to individual responses:

1. Heatran is still a problem, but my point was that, in general, coverage moves are largely unnecessary for many type combinations.
2. I see your point about carrying Refresh over Psyshock, as even at +2 the standard Stored Power set can't even guarantee a 2HKO on Chansey. However, given the overall tone of this post, I'm inclined to disagree with you, if only out of spite.
3. There are no OU legal Fairy types that can actually switch in on any kind of boosted Outrage and OHKO back. Use
4. Any user of Natural Cure belongs on that list. That includes not only Starmie, but Celebi (which gets Heal Bell and U-turn, and also can actually tank Earthquakes) as well, which you seem to have forgotten about.
5. Gardevoir, Togekiss, and Mega Venusaur all deserve a place on that list, sure, but Gengar is even more fragile than Espeon (60/60/75 vs. 65/60/95), and doesn't get a super-effective STAB, not to mention that Alakazam is intended as a wall to special fighting type attacks like Aura Sphere and Focus Blast.
6. Are you saying Chansey is not a good counter to Ghost types? Are you really saying that?
7. By nothing, I'm sure you meant Ludicolo, which OHKOs with Hydro Pump.
8. Regardless of how much more effective its Psychic STABs actually are, Hoopa-Unbound is still a very powerful threat, and Drain Punch restores HP to the user instead of lowering their Defense by 1 stage. That makes it the better choice in that situation.
9. Yeah. Dragon is really good. We know.
10. I have no idea what you're even talking about here. No one in their right mind would use Earthquake against a Breloom if they could help it. That's not the point.
11. Linoone and Mega Beedrill are still super frail, and Pokemon carrying less coverage is only a marginal increase in Shedinja's viability, as another member of the team is likely to be carrying one of its 6 weaknesses, to say nothing of the fact that Spikes will be even more common in this meta than normal, which prevents Shedinja from switching in at all.

 

[I like donkeys]

Don't know why anyone hasn't thought of it yet, but Ice types such as Mamoswine and Weavile seem like very prominent threats in this meta. Due to the presumed prevalence of ground types and dragon types (and perhaps grass types to act as a resistance to ground types) ice types appear to be more dangerous than ever. Mamoswine in particular now has a newly spammable STAB in earthquake and the most powerful ice shard in the tier. Thoughts?

 

[Ghoul King]

Okay, first of all, this meta has been up for 12 hours, so do try to be a little less vindictive in your critiques. Now on to individual responses:

It's not vindictiveness. I have no idea why you're taking it as vindictiveness, beyond that I employed criticism at all.

Heatran is still a problem, but my point was that, in general, coverage moves are largely unnecessary for many type combinations.

... it's a bad example, then? Because Mega Charizard X still wants Earthquake for Heatran. It wasn't carrying it for Fairies anyway, full stop, so it's not actually going to run Roost+Dragon Dance sets on the basis of Fairies no longer being immune to Dragon. Better examples are things like Fire+Ground and Flying+Ground, both of which are literally perfect coverage barring Abilities. (Too bad the Flying/Ground Pokemon all lack good Flying STABs and the Fire/Ground Pokemon are either an Uber or Camerupt)

There are no OU legal Fairy types that can actually switch in on any kind of boosted Outrage and OHKO back.

Whoa there, if you're switching in a Fairy it'll either be into the boosting move or the Outrage, not a boosted Outrage. Also, Granbull can.

252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 248 HP / 72+ Def Granbull: 324-382 (84.5 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

188 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Haxorus: 290-344 (97.6 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

And don't be telling me this stat spread is ridiculous, because Dragon is going to be sufficiently dominating that you may well see people running extremely specific EV spreads to achieve some measure of anti-Dragon work.

Any user of Natural Cure belongs on that list. That includes not only Starmie, but Celebi (which gets Heal Bell and U-turn, and also can actually tank Earthquakes) as well, which you seem to have forgotten about.

I picked out Starmie because it loses nothing whatsoever from the meta. Celebi loses Spore/Powder immunity and Leech Seed immunity, though of course it in turn benefits from its own Leech Seed being a lot more reliable. Starmie is, in fact, the only Natural Cure Pokemon outside of Corsola for which the meta is nothing but positives, making it the single most likely one to jump up in utility and not drop down. (Corsola is too awful for it to be likely to be salvaged, alas)

Gardevoir, Togekiss, and Mega Venusaur all deserve a place on that list, sure, but Gengar is even more fragile than Espeon (60/60/75 vs. 65/60/95), and doesn't get a super-effective STAB, not to mention that Alakazam is intended as a wall to special fighting type attacks like Aura Sphere and Focus Blast.

Gengar's got more general utility than Espeon in the first place, and its twin STABs are more viable than ever -I'll give you that Espeon is all upside in this meta, though, where Gengar loses out on Normal/Fighting/trapping/Toxic immunity.

I'm not sure what Special Fighting attacker you expect Alakazam to wall, though. That's... Lucario? Which, if it decides to run Special at all, lobs Dark Pulse at you for

252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 218-257 (86.8 - 102.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

It's even got Vacuum Wave, so Alakazam isn't a safe switch even if it's carrying Focus Sash -it can revenge Special Lucario definitely, but that's on its Speed and power, not on its resistance to Fighting -and Lucario is neutral to Psychic anyway, so Psychic Pokemon are not great as a check to it.

Are you saying Chansey is not a good counter to Ghost types? Are you really saying that?

Er, people almost never fell back on Normal types to wall Ghosts in the first place, bar Chansey which still walls the Special ones. (ie most of them)

Please don't go reading what I said as the opposite of what I said as an excuse to be offended by me. It's one thing to misread my tone, it's quite another to extract literally the opposite of what I said out what what I said when

By nothing, I'm sure you meant Ludicolo, which OHKOs with Hydro Pump.

252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 240-284 (79.7 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

By nothing, I mean nothing. (This is the Scarf build in Calc -Life Orb would be able to nab the OHKO on a predicted switch) Excadrill has more-or-less no reason to run Rock Slide in this meta. Why not run Poison Jab to kill one of the only things in the game that's close to a relevant wall to it?

Definitely things it doesn't like to face, such as Sableye dropping Prankster Will O Wisp on it, but Excadrill is not really wallable. If you want to be silly, it even has Aerial Ace, which is weak-but-perfect coverage with just Earthquake.

Regardless of how much more effective its Psychic STABs actually are, Hoopa-Unbound is still a very powerful threat, and Drain Punch restores HP to the user instead of lowering their Defense by 1 stage. That makes it the better choice in that situation.

Sure, but it's also a very small improvement. I guess Skuntank and Drapion are cases where Hoopa-Unbound might actually want to break out Psychic moves per se? Overall it gets very little out of the meta, so it seems odd to be noting it as a major threat of the meta.

Yeah. Dragon is really good. We know.

It's called humor.

I have no idea what you're even talking about here. No one in their right mind would use Earthquake against a Breloom if they could help it. That's not the point.

Also seems odd to leave out Breloom after playing it up as edgequake resistant. (Which is honestly pretty irrelevant since edgequake is for Flying types -the utility against Bugs is secondary and there's better things to be bringing to bear against Grass type)

As the only viable pokemon to resist edgequake, breloom has always had a defensive niche.

Breloom has a valuable niche in OU for its resistance to Edgequake, outright said by a Council member in addition to being true. My point is that Edgequake is no longer a strongly synergistic combination -indeed, Ground+Flying and Ground+Fire are far superior in this meta, as both of the only types to present an issue for Earthquake are vulnerable to both. As such, resistance to edqequake is unlikely to be a useful resistance, because there's no longer strong reason to run edgequake unless you're Ground/Rock and want twin STABS -and all the Ground/Rock Pokemon are horribly unviable, bar situationally Eviolite Rhydon.

Linoone and Mega Beedrill are still super frail, and Pokemon carrying less coverage is only a marginal increase in Shedinja's viability, as another member of the team is likely to be carrying one of its 6 weaknesses, to say nothing of the fact that Spikes will be even more common in this meta than normal, which prevents Shedinja from switching in at all.

I'm not sure why you think it matters that Linoone is "super frail" given that only Feint, Fake Out, and Extreme Speed provide any possibility of out-prioritizing it. If it slips in a Belly Drum, your offensive team is probably dead, bar maybe certain fast Steel/Rocks like Terrakion. Stall teams similarly hate how it out-prioritizes Prankster and ignores Ghost immunity now -Prankster Sableye is no longer a way to cripple it once it gets going, for instance.

Spikes is still the inferior hazard with poor distribution, compared to Stealth Rock, as Stealth Rock will almost always do at least as much damage and potentially far more than Spikes after one use. Skarmory and Ferrothorn are basically the only 2 OU-usable/viable Spikes stackers, and they both have 4MSS going on if you want to go there. (Also, they both suffer badly from this meta) Not even sure why you're bringing up Spikes given Stealth Rock is way more relevant to hurting Shedinja's viability.

Regardless, I was bringing it up because it's actually an answer to the otherwise-perfect Dragon/Ground and Dragon/Fighting combination. (Not to Haxorus, obviously)

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

I picked out Starmie because it loses nothing whatsoever from the meta. Celebi loses Spore/Powder immunity and Leech Seed immunity, though of course it in turn benefits from its own Leech Seed being a lot more reliable. Starmie is, in fact, the only Natural Cure Pokemon outside of Corsola for which the meta is nothing but positives, making it the single most likely one to jump up in utility and not drop down. (Corsola is too awful for it to be likely to be salvaged, alas)

Counterpoint, altaria. The mega doesn't benefit, but the nonmega does (also not salvageable).
Chansey also almost totally benefits- it's ghost immunity, as you said, wasn't all that useful, while seismic toss is now unblockable, a major benefit, as are the now nearly unblockable toxic/twave.

Sure, but it's also a very small improvement. I guess Skuntank and Drapion are cases where Hoopa-Unbound might actually want to break out Psychic moves per se? Overall it gets very little out of the meta, so it seems odd to be noting it as a major threat of the meta.

Its great on scarf sets/special sets/trick room sets. being able to hit Darks removes everything that ever wanted to wall it, be they Mandibuzz, Bisharp on special sets... Its just harder to switch into, and it was already almost impossible. Fairies are also less viable, making its life just plain easier.

Breloom has a valuable niche in OU for its resistance to Edgequake, outright said by a Council member in addition to being true. My point is that Edgequake is no longer a strongly synergistic combination -indeed, Ground+Flying and Ground+Fire are far superior in this meta, as both of the only types to present an issue for Earthquake are vulnerable to both. As such, resistance to edqequake is unlikely to be a useful resistance, because there's no longer strong reason to run edgequake unless you're Ground/Rock and want twin STABS -and all the Ground/Rock Pokemon are horribly unviable, bar situationally Eviolite Rhydon.

Edgequake is great on common, common threats like landorus-T! Whats more, even landorus' coverage is resisted, because knock off is dark. You do need to watch out for uturn, but thats more common on choice scarf than setup. It also still has just as good coverage as dragon-ground, and actually just as good super affective coverage (with the added bonus of shedinja). Its not like edgequake really got worse.

[/quote]
I'm not sure why you think it matters that Linoone is "super frail" given that only Feint, Fake Out, and Extreme Speed provide any possibility of out-prioritizing it. If it slips in a Belly Drum, your offensive team is probably dead, bar maybe certain fast Steel/Rocks like Terrakion. Stall teams similarly hate how it out-prioritizes Prankster and ignores Ghost immunity now -Prankster Sableye is no longer a way to cripple it once it gets going, for instance.
[/quote]
Offensive teams do have the advantage in that Linoone is just plain bad. It can sweep ho, but it cant set up vs ho. It can Set up vs stall, but stall has unaware. Besides, Skarmory does still check it- Whirlwind is a thing, as is sturdy, and if it was really desperate protect is too. As for regular offense, if it gets the chance to boost? Here are some not rare (not super common, but not rare) mons that beat it even after setup.

+6 252+ Atk Linoone Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 176-207 (73 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 208-246 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 286-337 (79.2 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Garchomp: 307-363 (73 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO not even a resist, and this is extremely common
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 254-299 (90.3 - 106.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO Has a shot at this, but a bit of investment/luck fixes that
+5 252+ Atk Linoone Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 261-307 (68.3 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+5 252+ Atk Linoone Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 180 Def Salamence: 327-385 (83.2 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (taken from damagecalc, not ultra specific ev's)

Spikes is still the inferior hazard with poor distribution, compared to Stealth Rock, as Stealth Rock will almost always do at least as much damage and potentially far more than Spikes after one use. Skarmory and Ferrothorn are basically the only 2 OU-usable/viable Spikes stackers, and they both have 4MSS going on if you want to go there. (Also, they both suffer badly from this meta) Not even sure why you're bringing up Spikes given Stealth Rock is way more relevant to hurting Shedinja's viability.

Regardless, I was bringing it up because it's actually an answer to the otherwise-perfect Dragon/Ground and Dragon/Fighting combination. (Not to Haxorus, obviously)

How does ferrothorn suffer? Sure, it has a poison weakness, but poison wasn't common before and no longer hits the incredibly relevant fairy because fairies are no longer incredible relevant. On the other hand, it can now leech seed grass types, beat dragon types and paralyze electric/ground types. I guess it can be toxiced?
Also you missed klefki.



Most of your suggestions have been added to my threatlist. If you or anyone else have more, please let me know.

 

[Martin]

The buff to Toxic Spikes is pretty big, because now only one type (poison) is immune to them as opposed to the previous three (poison, steel, flying), which means that stall teams - which didn't traditionally face issues with them due to between 2-4 members being immune on average - now suddenly become weaker in general to them and much more reliant on Amoonguss clearing them to not be ravaged by an instant poisoning. Overall this is gonna leave Amoonguss very pressured in general, which means it will very quickly get worn down.

 

[CactusCacti]

Do all mons now get au-
no bad joke, bad.

Anyway, I find the whole flying no longer saving you from any ground hazards really interesting thing for this meta, specially since toxic spikes now become extremely effective, kinda making cleric role and starmie extremely useful.
The dragon immunity going away is kinda worrying tho, cause drag magnet will certainly now make a return and outrage spam will relive once more.
But then again, maybe misty terrain can finally get a niche here cause everything is pretty much grounded apart from lati twins when it comes to dragon? Who knows.
And sableye will certainly enjoy being able to will-o everything not having magic bounce/flash fire.

It's really hard to say how this meta could potentially go, in one hand stall gains hazards and toxic/burn/para everything, but loses immunities which is a big thing
And offense really gains from immunity loss, but also loses safety from statuses.
Balance kinda goes "???" at this point tho.

This really is one of those metas that can generate so so much speculation but nothing can be certain till its seen in action.

 

[sin(pi)]

... it's a bad example, then? Because Mega Charizard X still wants Earthquake for Heatran. It wasn't carrying it for Fairies anyway, full stop, so it's not actually going to run Roost+Dragon Dance sets on the basis of Fairies no longer being immune to Dragon. Better examples are things like Fire+Ground and Flying+Ground, both of which are literally perfect coverage barring Abilities. (Too bad the Flying/Ground Pokemon all lack good Flying STABs and the Fire/Ground Pokemon are either an Uber or Camerupt)

Barring abilities, how is Fire+Dragon not perfect coverage in this metagame?

Spikes is still the inferior hazard with poor distribution, compared to Stealth Rock, as Stealth Rock will almost always do at least as much damage and potentially far more than Spikes after one use. Skarmory and Ferrothorn are basically the only 2 OU-usable/viable Spikes stackers, and they both have 4MSS going on if you want to go there. (Also, they both suffer badly from this meta) Not even sure why you're bringing up Spikes given Stealth Rock is way more relevant to hurting Shedinja's viability.

...Klefki? Admittedly it also suffers hugely from this metagame, but it's certainly OU viable. There's also Chesnaught, which stands to gain a lot - flying has been significantly nerfed, its Fighting STAB is no longer walled by Ghosts, and it loves the influx of Ground-type attacks and Physical attackers (most dragons seem to prefer their physical offenses). It also walls Sludge Bomb Gengar thanks to Bulletproof, which is pretty cool.



Some theorymon sets:

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf/Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Outrage / Roost
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam / Fusion Bolt / *insert preferred coverage move here*

Teravolt Dragon + Ground is perfect neutral coverage, and KyuB loves not having its best STAB resisted.

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf/Life Orb/Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly/Naive Nature
- Dragon Claw / Swords Dance
- Outrage / Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast / Fire Fang / *insert preferred coverage here*

Basically the same, but with STAB on Earthquake, the ability to boost, and better speed. Struggles with Bronzong to an extent.

 

[Whydon]

Unblockable Rapid Spin? Count me in. I wonder if it'll be a better option over Defog? Defog was used more because it couldn't be type-blocked, but now Rapid Spin is no longer type-blocked, and it doesn't remove your own hazards. Useful for hazard stacking teams.

 

[Martin]

The problem is that our options for spinners are Excadrill, Starmie, Tentacruel, Kabutops, MegaStoise and a load of shitmons. Excadrill is a really poor spinner in general due to it losing to such a large number of common rockers and having to sacrifice SD to do this; Starmie is limited to maybe one spin per game unless it sacrifices coverage for Recover; Tentacruel is actually pretty good here 'cause of T-Spikes, but it isn't very splashable due to its relative passiveness and lack of recovery outside of Black Sludge and I guess Rain Dish (although who uses Rain Dish rofl) in addition to being a one-trick pony for the most part; spin Kabutops is lol; Mega Blastoise means giving up your mega slot for a mostly outclassed mega. For this reasoning I will expect to not see the balance shifted much, as defoggers tend to either be more consistent and/or more splashable than the available spinners are for various reasons which I won't go into now.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

The problem is that our options for spinners are Excadrill, Starmie, Tentacruel, Kabutops, MegaStoise and a load of shitmons. Excadrill is a really poor spinner in general due to it losing to such a large number of common rockers and having to sacrifice SD to do this; Starmie is limited to maybe one spin per game unless it sacrifices coverage for Recover; Tentacruel is actually pretty good here 'cause of T-Spikes, but it isn't very splashable due to its relative passiveness and lack of recovery outside of Black Sludge and I guess Rain Dish (although who uses Rain Dish rofl) in addition to being a one-trick pony for the most part; spin Kabutops is lol; Mega Blastoise means giving up your mega slot for a mostly outclassed mega. For this reasoning I will expect to not see the balance shifted much, as defoggers tend to either be more consistent and/or more splashable than the available spinners are for various reasons which I won't go into now.

On the other hand, most defoggers are flying types... Maybe mew will be the remover of choice?

 

[Akumeoy]

The problem is that our options for spinners are Excadrill, Starmie, Tentacruel, Kabutops, MegaStoise and a load of shitmons. Excadrill is a really poor spinner in general due to it losing to such a large number of common rockers and having to sacrifice SD to do this; Starmie is limited to maybe one spin per game unless it sacrifices coverage for Recover; Tentacruel is actually pretty good here 'cause of T-Spikes, but it isn't very splashable due to its relative passiveness and lack of recovery outside of Black Sludge and I guess Rain Dish (although who uses Rain Dish rofl) in addition to being a one-trick pony for the most part; spin Kabutops is lol; Mega Blastoise means giving up your mega slot for a mostly outclassed mega. For this reasoning I will expect to not see the balance shifted much, as defoggers tend to either be more consistent and/or more splashable than the available spinners are for various reasons which I won't go into now.

Excadrill doesn't need to give up Swords Dance for Rapid Spin. SD + Iron Head + EQ is great coverage in its own right, especially if it has Mold Breaker. The last slot can go to Return (for Rotom formes) or Rapid Spin easily. Losing to common rockers is less than ideal, obviously, but common rockers don't want to switch into a Swords Dance or a STAB (depending on the rocker in question), so it should be pretty competent at keeping hazards off the field.

Shit, with that free moveslot, Excadrill could almost afford to run a "double dance" set with SD + Sandstorm + Iron Head + Earthquake. Almost.

Anyways, Celebi new meta. Bulkiest Ground resist around, doesn't care about status, T-Wave spammer extraordinaire. Rev up those U-Turns.

 

[Martin]

On the other hand, most defoggers are flying types... Maybe mew will be the remover of choice?

Lati@s was more along the lines of what I was thinking due to how stupidly good its dual STABs are here.

 

[nv]

Lati@s was more along the lines of what I was thinking due to how stupidly good its dual STABs are here.

And Latias has Levitate which is honestly one of the best abilities in this metagame.

 

[Martin]

Game Freak clearly had this all planned out:

Ability: LEVITATE

This is actually a cool niche, as it is the only STAB Flying 'mon in the game to be immune to Earthquake. In addition, elec/flying is really cool offensive and defensive typing in and of itself, resisting lots of common types in fighting, flying, steel, bug and grass, and having an immunity to its primary weakness in ground is huge considering that it is the key downfall of Zapdos (the other primary defensive elec/fly mon). Its movepool is one-dimensional (T-bolt, Volt Switch, Pain Split, Wisp and Air Slash are all that is really of note), but that also applies to Rotom-W and that's pretty good in general.

That aside, Scrappymons would have also been a cool name due to this meta basically doing what Scrappy does to Ghost-types.