Abomasnow [2/3]

I'd argue that Mandibuzz is the best hazard-removing teammate here, since Overcoat prevents it from taking hail damage.
Why not Tentacruel? Sure you take Hail damage, but you're not weak to rock, and Abomasnow resists your Electric and Ground Weaknesses while (Physically Bulky) Tentacruel covers Steel, Bug, Poison, Fire, Fighting.

Plus, with Tentacruel and RS, you can keep your own hazards, and seeing as Mega Abomasnow can force a lot of switches with its sheer power, that's a nice bonus as well.
 

Martin

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Not QC, but a few things:

Just a knitpick, but you need to fix the formatting on the set. It says "SET NAME" above the hashtags when it should say "Offensive". Also remove the gap in lines between "########" and "name: Offensive"

Also I find that, even on a TR team, Ice Shard is just too useful for Abomasnow to pass up for anything. I would slash Sub with with EQ. What are QC's thoughts on this?

Also as a side note, it is useful to mention a backup item if the team's mega has already been taken. May I suggest putting Lefties in set details or even as a slash? Once again, what are QC's thoughts on this?

Hope I've been helpful!

Edit: Remove SubSeed from the overview
 
Remove mention of Genesect, it is now banned
Not QC, but a few things:

Just a knitpick, but you need to fix the formatting on the set. It says "SET NAME" above the hashtags when it should say "Offensive". Also remove the gap in lines between "########" and "name: Offensive"

Also I find that, even on a TR team, Ice Shard is just too useful for Abomasnow to pass up for anything. I would slash Sub with with EQ. What are QC's thoughts on this?

Also as a side note, it is useful to mention a backup item if the team's mega has already been taken. May I suggest putting Lefties in set details or even as a slash? Once again, what are QC's thoughts on this?

Hope I've been helpful!

Edit: Remove SubSeed from the overview
I'll do that now.
 

Martin

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I've just noticed this, but you misspelled Automize (you put Automatize) on Aegislash's bullet point in checks and counters

Edit: You have put Rock Slide in' Set Details'. it needs to be in 'Moves'. Also, 252+ SpA Mega Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 204-240 (68.6 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage. This is not basically an OHKO. Remove "blizzard is basically an OHKO" when mentioning Rock Slide

Edit 2:
Not an actual amcheck: just showing you a mistake.
A=Remove
A=Add
anything that can take advantage of wholes in the opponents team is a good teammate
 
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I've just noticed this, but you misspelled Automize (you put Automatize) on Aegislash's bullet point in checks and counters

Edit: You have put Rock Slide in' Set Details'. it needs to be in 'Moves'. Also, 252+ SpA Mega Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 204-240 (68.6 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage. This is not basically an OHKO. Remove "blizzard is basically an OHKO" when mentioning Rock Slide

Edit 2:
Not an actual amcheck: just showing you a mistake.
A=Remove
A=Add
anything that can take advantage of wholes in the opponents team is a good teammate
I'll add what you said but remember this is a skeleton and nothing here has to be perfect. It's just to get the general idea of what's going to be the outline of the written portion, so there's is no need to point silly grammatical mistakes until GP Phase. This skeleton is done by the way. Just waiting for QC's check
 

CyclicCompound

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Alright, here are some things to add/change/fix:

Overview
Priority Ice Shard helps revenge kill top tier threats like Salamence and Garchomp and has much stronger Ice Shard now
A trivial change, but Salamence is certainly not a top-tier threat. Garchomp, however, is a great example, so keep it.
Lots of handy resistances, can wall Rotom-W and Starmie easily
Actually, Abomasnow gets 2HKO'd by Starmie's LO Psyshock factoring in Analytic. Specify what these resistances are.
Hail only lasts 5 turns, so Blizzard can be a problem, since SubSeed sets stay in for a while
Abomasnow will RARELY be on the battlefield for more than 5 turns, so this point is moot, especially that SubSeed is no longer a set.
Much better wall-breaker this Generation and being able to tank and wall lots of the metagame makes it good
This point is a little misleading. Abomasnow certainly does not wall lots of the metagame—in fact, it's really nowhere near doing so. It's not really "good" either—yes, it's good at doing what it does, but this is pretty limited to wallbreaking.

Moves
Focus Blast can be used to teach Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Aggron-Mega a lesson.
Move this to OO. Ferrothorn takes enough from Blizzard, and Mega Aggron and Forretress are much too trivial to run Focus Blast for.
Substitute can make this thing harder to kill and eases prediction and is best paired with Giga Drain to heal off damage taken from attacks and Substitute, it can be easily be set-up on Rotom-W which is very common. Volt Switch does about -19% Max
Move this to OO as well. Substitute really sucks on a Pokemon with a Stealth Rock weakness, a tendency to be forced out by a ton of things, and a lack of reliable recovery (Giga Drain doesn't count, due to the low amount of Pokemon it hits).

Set Details
If you are using Giga Drain, a Quiet Nature with 252 SAtk EVs is recommended
Giga Drain is slashed first, so this should be the main spread in the set, with the current one moved down into Set Details.
You can run SubPunch or SubSeed with the first two moves for it to function as a bulky tank
Ice Beam > Blizzard could be run because Abomasnow will stay in longer for Snow Warning's turns to end
These should also be in OO.

Usage Tips
You're missing this section entirely.

Team Options
This set is a fantastic wall-breaker. anything that can take advantage of the wholes is a good teammate (Ex. Talonflame and yea, sweepers)
Be more specific—what are some sweepers that appreciate the lack of the specific walls that Abomasnow takes care of?
It's SR weak, so try out Starmie or Excadrill; Mandibuzz works but beware of there common weaknesses to Rock-type moves, Tentacruel too
Remove Tentacruel, it's a bad Pokemon in OU.
Heatran is always a good teammate
Make sure you specify why.
Like?

Other Options
growth but speed is bad
Growth is simply unfeasible on such a slow and vulnerable Pokemon, it should be removed altogether.

Checks and Counters
Fix up this section to match the site standards, which you can read about here.


Fix all of those things and add a Usage Tips section and I'll stamp this for you.
 
Just because Subseed is terrible, and I agree it is, doesn't mean Leech Seed on its own is suddenly useless. There is talk about beating the blobs, and Giga Drain + Leech Seed seems like the perfect compromise.

Giga Drain
Ice Shard
Blizzard
Leech Seed

There's really no point in carrying EQ. I know what it accomplishes in theory, but realistically, when will you get to use it? It only helps against Steels if the Steel Pokemon hasn't already killed you, doesn't have Bullet Punch, doesn't outspeed you with a generic Steel move, and isn't named Skarmory.

So basically, it doesn't help at all.

Rocks die more efficiently to Wood Hammer or Giga Drain. I do believe all fire types even close to OU outspeed you regardless of what you do.

Combine this with the aforementioned benefit of random Leech Seed (or a different move altogether... Toxic perhaps.

As for teammates... mass paralysis and/or Trick Room are both incredibly beneficial. That makes me immediately think of Togekiss and Magnezone.
 
Alright, here are some things to add/change/fix:

Overview

A trivial change, but Salamence is certainly not a top-tier threat. Garchomp, however, is a great example, so keep it.

Actually, Abomasnow gets 2HKO'd by Starmie's LO Psyshock factoring in Analytic. Specify what these resistances are.

Abomasnow will RARELY be on the battlefield for more than 5 turns, so this point is moot, especially that SubSeed is no longer a set.

This point is a little misleading. Abomasnow certainly does not wall lots of the metagame—in fact, it's really nowhere near doing so. It's not really "good" either—yes, it's good at doing what it does, but this is pretty limited to wallbreaking.

Moves

Move this to OO. Ferrothorn takes enough from Blizzard, and Mega Aggron and Forretress are much too trivial to run Focus Blast for.

Move this to OO as well. Substitute really sucks on a Pokemon with a Stealth Rock weakness, a tendency to be forced out by a ton of things, and a lack of reliable recovery (Giga Drain doesn't count, due to the low amount of Pokemon it hits).

Set Details

Giga Drain is slashed first, so this should be the main spread in the set, with the current one moved down into Set Details.

These should also be in OO.

Usage Tips
You're missing this section entirely.

Team Options

Be more specific—what are some sweepers that appreciate the lack of the specific walls that Abomasnow takes care of?

Remove Tentacruel, it's a bad Pokemon in OU.

Make sure you specify why.

Like?

Other Options

Growth is simply unfeasible on such a slow and vulnerable Pokemon, it should be removed altogether.

Checks and Counters
Fix up this section to match the site standards, which you can read about here.


Fix all of those things and add a Usage Tips section and I'll stamp this for you.
Lol, this was kind of outdated (Salamence was top-tier until like 2 months ago where ppl learned it was garbage.) No one uses Analytic Starmie this gen imo.

I'll add everything except Substitute sucks. I don't think you have used Abomasnow. substitute is really great when prediction sint in your favor. Aboma wants to spam blizzard but due to its low speed it can really 2hko everything it wants. It can come in on say rotom-w set up a sub and start damaging an healing up stuff with giga drain. if you want to play safe, you can let heatran switch in, set up a sub or eq. if the thing that you set up on doesn't switch out it, it cant do much considering it is only useful against something you can beat like the aforementioned rotom-w (burn cant do crap since it has its stabs as special) and manaphy

Sure losing substitute makes you lose a valuable ice shard and you make good point but its not going to OO. I'ma keep it in set details

everything else will be added like i said. thx

EDIT: checks and counters doesnt need to be fixed. it's a skeleton not the write up
 

CyclicCompound

is a bicycle person thing
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Lol, this was kind of outdated (Salamence was top-tier until like 2 months ago where ppl learned it was garbage.) No one uses Analytic Starmie this gen imo.

I'll add everything except Substitute sucks. I don't think you have used Abomasnow. substitute is really great when prediction sint in your favor. Aboma wants to spam blizzard but due to its low speed it can really 2hko everything it wants. It can come in on say rotom-w set up a sub and start damaging an healing up stuff with giga drain. if you want to play safe, you can let heatran switch in, set up a sub or eq. if the thing that you set up on doesn't switch out it, it cant do much considering it is only useful against something you can beat like the aforementioned rotom-w (burn cant do crap since it has its stabs as special) and manaphy

Sure losing substitute makes you lose a valuable ice shard and you make good point but its not going to OO. I'ma keep it in set details

everything else will be added like i said. thx

EDIT: checks and counters doesnt need to be fixed. it's a skeleton not the write up
The reason I say that Substitute sucks is that you really don't want to sacrifice any of Abomasnow's moves for it. Blizzard, Earthquake, and a Grass-type STAB are obviously mandatory for wallbreaking, and the revenge-killing utility that Ice Shard provides is priceless. You prevent and check sweeps from Garchomp, Dragonite, Thundurus, and Landorus, some of OU's most efficient sweepers.

And before you make assumptions, I have used Abomasnow in sixth gen OU before this, and I can say that I don't feel comfortable giving up any of the moves. Yes, you set up on Rotom-W and Manaphy, but losing 25% of your health along with a coveted moveslot is unacceptable. I'm too uncomfortable with putting it in moves, because I just feel like you're sacrificing too much. I'll talk to other QC members and see if they disagree, so I'll let you keep it for now.

Also, Checks and Counters does need to be fixed. It's not so much about the formatting at this point, it's more about making sure you've got the general bases covered. That's hard to do when it's in an unorganized block.

Your usage tips look okay, just make a note about how Abomasnow users should predict Fire-type switch-ins with Earthquake.

Add that and fix Checks and Counters and I'll give you the stamp.
 

Colonel M

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By the way I want to point out that switching into Rotom-W does have some risk behind it as Will-O-Wisp will hamper Earthquake, Ice Shard, and Wood Hammer (if used).
Volcarona can set up on non-Rock Slide variants or just roast it with Fiery Dance, or kill Substitute kinds with Bug Buzz
Rock Slide is nowhere in this analysis. I would at least mention Rock Slide in OO or remove the Rock Slide statement here.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
In checks and counter you mention Scizor and Breloom in the same sntence. Breloom is merely a check as Mach Punch can pick off weakened Abomasnow, but of course it cant switch into Blizzard at all. Scizor however walls the shit out of Abomasnow and sets up on it with ease. So separate them.

Also, I agree with CyclicCompound that giving up a moveslot for a sub is basically useless. I've used this thing and it does not want to give up its coverage moves at all. Blizzard is necessary to damage, ice shard should not be dropped at all, Giga Drain for Water-types that Aboma is useful for beating and can get you a bit of health back, and Earthquake is necessary so Steel-types dont just laugh at you. Abomasnow is slow as hell and has tons of weaknesses its not like its sub is hard to break. Drop that as an option from the main set as an option altogether please.
 
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... lol CC is also qc, I need to look at the qc list

Alright, you can talk to qc about substitute.

I'll fix up the check and counters asap since i'm getting comments about it being messy.

Colonel M i'll mention rock slide in OO u bully
 
Okay, so maybe I'm wrong here, but I'm just not seeing how this thing is really worth using. Could someone please enlighten me as to why Abomasnow needs an analysis? The main reason to use it last generation was just because being able to disrupt opposing weather teams with Hail was a cool tool. Now that weather isn't permanent anymore and weather-based teams are so much more uncommon, being able to stop weather-based strategies with Snow Warning isn't a big deal anymore. Besides that, Mega Abomasnow just doesn't look all that appealing. Its great bulk is let down by the fact that it can't hold Leftovers and that has 7 weaknesses, most of which are pretty common. Its offenses are pretty solid, but it doesn't have the speed to back them up. Unless you have Trick Room up, Abomasnow isn't going to outspeed anything besides Ferrothorn or something (unless it's using Ice Shard), so it'll almost always have to take a hit before dishing one back out (although it admittedly does hit really hard). Combined with its lack of recovery, Stealth Rock weakness, and several weaknesses, this makes it a lot harder for Abomasnow to stay alive and hit stuff. Perhaps more importantly than anything else is the fact that you have to use up your Mega slot to utilize what is arguably Abomasnow's only viable set. Seeing as how it receives such stiff competition for that slot from other excellent Megas like Gyarados, Tyranitar, Pinsir, and the Charizards, Abomasnow is really lackluster by comparison.

Again, maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not seeing why this guy is viable.
 

CyclicCompound

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Okay, so maybe I'm wrong here, but I'm just not seeing how this thing is really worth using. Could someone please enlighten me as to why Abomasnow needs an analysis? The main reason to use it last generation was just because being able to disrupt opposing weather teams with Hail was a cool tool. Now that weather isn't permanent anymore and weather-based teams are so much more uncommon, being able to stop weather-based strategies with Snow Warning isn't a big deal anymore. Besides that, Mega Abomasnow just doesn't look all that appealing. Its great bulk is let down by the fact that it can't hold Leftovers and that has 7 weaknesses, most of which are pretty common. Its offenses are pretty solid, but it doesn't have the speed to back them up. Unless you have Trick Room up, Abomasnow isn't going to outspeed anything besides Ferrothorn or something (unless it's using Ice Shard), so it'll almost always have to take a hit before dishing one back out (although it admittedly does hit really hard). Combined with its lack of recovery, Stealth Rock weakness, and several weaknesses, this makes it a lot harder for Abomasnow to stay alive and hit stuff. Perhaps more importantly than anything else is the fact that you have to use up your Mega slot to utilize what is arguably Abomasnow's only viable set. Seeing as how it receives such stiff competition from other excellent Megas like Gyarados, Tyranitar, Pinsir, and the Charizards, Abomasnow is really lackluster by comparison.

Again, maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not seeing why this guy is viable.
Mega Abomasnow has two really nice niches that give it viability—together they add up to give Mega Abomasnow an ounce of offensive utility that can go a long way on the right team. Firstly, it breaks down Stall teams really well—nearly every commonly seen Stall Pokemon is either OHKO'd or 2HKO'd by Abomasnow, provided hazards are up, whereas Stall teams can hardly do a thing back. Granted, Heatran can be a nuisance, but with a bit of prediction it can be handled as well since Mega Abomasnow packs Earthquake. Not a lot of other Mega Pokemon can boast the same—Mega Garchomp and Mega Mawile come close, but Mega Garchomp's reliance on Draco Meteor is a little offsetting, and Mega Mawile struggles with Mega Venusaur.

Secondly, STAB Ice Shard coming off of a base 132 Attack is really, really nice. It goes a long way in preventing Garchomp, Dragonite, Thundurus, and Landorus from sweeping, and considering that Abomasnow resists all of their main STABs other than Dragonite, it doesn't really have that much trouble switching in. They can all be KO'd after some residual damage.

Those two things are the concrete reasons why Mega Abomasnow is still a viable mon to use, and yeah, it doesn't allow you to use another Mega Evolution, but it pulls its weight at the right times. Also keep in mind that Abomasnow forces quite a lot of switches—Rotom-W, non-Focus Blast Thundurus, Greninja, Latias/Latios, Mandibuzz, Skarmory, choice-locked Azumarill, Gliscor, Kyurem-B, non-Bounce Gyarados, and Manaphy dislike staying in on it. With good prediction, you can net a lot of surprising KOs with this set.
 
Well, Chansey is honestly very common on stall teams, and it pretty much cockblocks the set in the OP (Wood Hammer does a max of 38%). I also wouldn't say that Stall can hardly do anything back. Mega Abomasnow is slow as Christmas and has no recovery whatsoever, so chances are that it'll get worn down by hazards and chip damage before it can KO much. Still, if you think that its offense and access to Ice Shard are reason enough to use it, then that's fine by me.
 

CyclicCompound

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Thank you, that actually reminds me, Vertex, why is the set 200 HP / 56 Atk / 252 SpA? Isn't it better to invest everything in Attack and Special Attack so you can do more to Chansey?
 
CyclicCompound

To be honest, I used max attack for Blissey and Chansey + Wood Hammer, but it still doesn't 2HKO Chansey all the time :[
  • 252 Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 262-310 (37.2 - 44%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and hail damage
In exchange, you are taking around 1/3 of you HP using it, and Chnasey can Softboil stall it while Mega Abomasnow kills itself from recoil.

56 Atk is to OHKO Heatran with Earthquake after hail damage (even with Stealth Rock not up). Mega Abomasnow needs that bulk to completely block the following:

Manaphy's +3 Ice Beam v. Mega Abomasnow: 52.8 - 62.2%
Greninja's LO Ice Beam: 42 - 49.8%
Latios's LO Draco Meteor: 71.4 - 84.3%

This bulk isn't limited to those PKMN, but you have this thing being able some dangerous sweepers / wall-breakers like Mega Gyarados, CB Azumarill (this thing can live Play Rough), and paired with Giga Drain, this is really good as it extends its longetivity. Running 252 Atk for Chansey (which beats you anyways with max attack) is useless. I'll give a mention of the spread for Trick Room teams, however. Anyways, I'll have Checks and Counters done soon. Everything else you said has been implemented. Thanks!
 

CyclicCompound

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Alright, I'll trust your judgment there, that seems reasonable.

QC 1/4


EDIT: Talked to some guys on IRC, Substitute is a no-go for moves. It remains in OO. As helpful as it may be, Abomasnow simply can't afford to give up any of its moves.
 
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Is there any reason that Snow Warning is slashed at all? The reason Mega Tyranitar uses Sand Stream over Unnerve pre-Mega is that it wants to have that Special Defense buff when switching into something before it Mega evolves, which is more than worth 1 less Sand turn afterward. Not only does Mega Abomasnow not get any defensive buff at all from the Hail, but unlike Tyranitar it hates having 1 less Hail turn in the long run since it needs Hail to spam its most powerful attack: Blizzard. Couple that with the fact that Soundproof gives it a chance to switch into Galvantula's Bug Buzzes and Sylveon and Mega Gardevoir's Hyper Voices, and I see no advantage whatsoever to having Snow Warning slashed at all.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
Is there any reason that Snow Warning is slashed at all? The reason Mega Tyranitar uses Sand Stream over Unnerve pre-Mega is that it wants to have that Special Defense buff when switching into something before it Mega evolves, which is more than worth 1 less Sand turn afterward. Not only does Mega Abomasnow not get any defensive buff at all from the Hail, but unlike Tyranitar it hates having 1 less Hail turn in the long run since it needs Hail to spam its most powerful attack: Blizzard. Couple that with the fact that Soundproof gives it a chance to switch into Galvantula's Bug Buzzes and Sylveon and Mega Gardevoir's Hyper Voices, and I see no advantage whatsoever to having Snow Warning slashed at all.
if youre trying to use Abomasnow's hail for a residual damage kill, then you can switch it in before its evolved, and then immediately switch it out meaning htat you can get hail if you absolutely have to without keeping in abomasnow against something that threatens it. Both it and soundproof are very situational applications.
 
Offensive
########
name: Offensive
move 1: Blizzard
move 2: Giga Drain / Wood Hammer
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Ice Shard
ability: Soundproof / Snow Warning
item: Abomasite
evs: 200 HP / 56 Atk / 252 SpA
nature: Queit <- Typo. Should be "Quiet"
ivs: 0 Spe
 

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