Ability Tiering Thread and General Ability Discussion (Final Check)

[Strategywin]

Nomination G tier for gimmick
This includes illusion, wonder guard (since the only poke that gets it is shedinja) etc.
And Sturdy to B. Most pokes with it are walls, so they usually don't need it.

 

[voodoo pimp]

Nomination G tier for gimmick
This includes illusion, wonder guard (since the only poke that gets it is shedinja) etc.

Neither of those are particularly gimmicky on their own, they're just on Pokémon that are otherwise underwhelming. Most sweepers would love Illusion to help with setup, and Wonder Guard would be broken on pretty much anything with a multi-digit HP stat.

But I could see adding a G tier for Color Change, Zen Mode, maybe Imposter, etc.

 

[forestflamerunner]

That is the end of the nomination period. The two abilities that will be voted upon are Contrary and Prankster. You may vote Change Tier, Do Not Change Tier, or Abstain. Put your votes in bold. A sample ballot is provided below:

Prankster: Change Tier
Contrary: Abstain

The voting period will last approximately 48 hours starting now.

 

[alexwolf]

Prankster: Change Tier
Contrary: Change Tier

 

[The QWAZ]

Prankster: Change Tier
Contrary: Abstain

 

[SkullCandy]

NOMINATION

Arena Trap (stay in S tier. excellent ability, just a little worse than Shadow Tag)
Contrary (stay in S tier. Just because not everyone can use it doesn't make it less S tier than Huge/Pure Power or Prankster. Those abilities would be useless on a Pokemon with an extremely low Attack stat, the former, or very few support moves for the latter.)
Drizzle (Stay in S tier. It made Politoed OU...)
Drought (stay in S tier. Replace above with Ninetails)
Huge Power (stay in S tier.)
Imposter (stay in S tier)
Magic Mirror (stay in S tier. The ability to bounce any hazards, taunt, status? Yes please)
Moody (stay in S tier. It's the only Uber ability for crying out loud!)
Prankster (stay in s tier. It helped make Thundurus Uber and rose Sableye to UU and is a great emergency button against set-up sweepers thanks to priority Burn and paralysis.)
Pure Power (stay in S tier. See Huge Power)
Sand Stream (stay in S tier. most dominating ability in every gen...)
Snow Warning (stay in S tier. It's a weather ability that got a NFE Pokemon banned to BL.)
Shadow Tag (Stay in S tier. This got a NFE banned to Ubers...)
Wonder Guard (stay in S tier. Wonder Guard Spiritomb says it all)

 

[Acritter]

Prankster: Change Tier
Contrary: Change Tier

 

[pharaohcalvin]

Prankster: Change Tier
Contrary: Change Tier

 

[StallMandibuzz]

Prankster: No change in tier
Contrary: Change tier

[I'm guessing both abilities are in S tier? If so, demote Contrary, keep Prankster.]

 

[voodoo pimp]

Prankster: Do Not Change Tier
Contrary: Do Not Change Tier

 

[Acritter]

Prankster: No change in tier
Contrary: Change tier

[I'm guessing both abilities are in S tier? If so, demote Contrary, keep Prankster.]

We're voting exclusively on S-tier abilities right now. If you vote for a tier change, it (for obvious reasons) can only be a demotion.

 

[doughboy]

Prankster: No change in tier
Contrary: Change tier

Prankster has so many unusual benefits that it deserves to be S tier, not including its effect on Thundurus and Sableye. A while back when I submitted a CAP concept, it explored the depths and quirks that Prankster have provided. Basically all the little quirks can be found in the explanation section and the reasons why it is such a good ability is in the justification section.

Name: Priority

General Description: A Pokemon whose use is defined by its use of priority

Justification: While in the earlier Generations of Pokemon, priority took a step back from other more powerful moves, they have become a staple on every team in the current generation. The #1 position on the OU statistics by a large margin belongs to Scizor due to having one of the most powerful priority moves in the game. Before the advent of the current metagame Whimsicott had high expectations to be defining OU (or even banished to Uber) due to priority SubSeed and Encore. Fellow Prankster Pokemon Thunderus had been coveted in his use priority Thunder Wave against Scarfers, nearly unTauntable Nasty Plot, and his ability to dodge opposing priority with Substitute. However, Whimsicott now resides in RU whereas Thunderus resides in the powerhouse Uber tier. Priority is an aspect that is niche to many Pokemon; but its power has rarely been explored at this point in the metagame.

Questions To Be Answered:
-How does the metagame react when new forms or ways to transcend speed are introduced?
-What form of priority is most valued by players? Status, general support, set-up, or just a plain attacking move?
-Are there uses of priority that have not been explored yet?
-At what point does priority with the ability to transcend speed tiers become too much for the metagame to handle such as in Thunderus' case? In what circumstances does it become tolerable in the case of Whimsicott?

Explanation: The most obvious use of priority is being used as a revenge killer against boosted threats, such as been the case of Scizor for the past two generations. With a plethora of priority attacking moves CAP-mon can be used as a pretty much catch-all revenge killer. Priority can be used on a sweeper too and it can utilized by bulky or frail Pokemon such as SD Scizor and SD Lucario respectively. I shouldn't fail to mention Prankster either; it is what brought priority to a whole new level this generation. Outside of the known Whimsicott and Thundurus cases, the priority provided by Prankster can lead to some pretty interesting uses. For example, Acrobatics Tornadus can use Bulk Up to beef itself up in order to tank an opposing priority or Scarfed physical hit. Unbeknown to many, Riolu has priority phazing with Copycat+Roar. Overall lots of creative things can be done with priority and this CAP project is the opportunity to fully explore it.

 

[StallMandibuzz]

We're voting exclusively on S-tier abilities right now. If you vote for a tier change, it (for obvious reasons) can only be a demotion.

Alright, thanks for the reassurance. My votes stand then. Demote Contrary, keep Prankster in S-tier.

 

[Twins]

Prankster: No Change
Prankster is just too good to be A Rank. It might not be good as other S Rank abilities, but no doubt, it's an amazing. Sure, Sableye is only UU, but tiers reflect usage, not viability. Priority status, recovery, weather, etc, is a godsend on any pokemon. Prankster is one of those rare abilities that works and is useful to any pokemon it's on (even sweepers benefit from priority Substitute). And thus, because of its usefulness, it deserves S Rank.

Contrary: Change to A Tier
Although Contrary would make some pokemon broken beyond belief, it is quite a limited ability. The large majority of pokemon would get nothing out of it, and it might even prove detrimental in some cases. No mistake, it's powerful in the right hands, but a bit limited, which makes it a perfect A Tier ability.

 

[StallMandibuzz]

Prankster is pretty much the only reason that Sableye went from the bottom of NU to UU in like 6-7 months. It was total shit beforehand, with useless abilities and average all-around stats, but a semi-decent support movepool. If it could make useless POS like Sableye and Murkrow great Pokémon, then it could essentially make anything with a huge support movepool UU and up material.

 

[Scrawly]

Certain abilities--Forecast, Wonder Guard, Zen Mode, a few others--are defined by the Pokemon that use them. Shedinja's unprecedented 1 HP makes it clear that Wonder Guard was designed for no one else. I don't believe these abilities can be truly tiered, and should be listed separately.

---

Prankster: No change in tier
Contrary: Change tier, probably A

Contrary is a wonderful ability, but to make use of it a mon must have one of a select few moves. Prankster has much broader application, despite its distribution.

 

[Audiosurfer]

Prankster should stay while Contrary goes. As others have said, Prankster has a much wider application range than Contrary, and the potential of Contrary is alot more limiting than with Prankster. Anything with a good support move could utilize Prankster, whereas Contrary requires the use of more specific sets of moves. Also, Prankster has caused several pokemon to receive a boost in usage that definitely wouldn't have happened without it

 

[dragonuser]

Prankster: Do Not Change Tier
Contrary: Do Not Change Tier

If you look at the definition of S-Class it says that these abilities would make pokemon viable that would be otherwise unusable. Sableye is the perfect example for Prankster, as once Prankster was released it got a huge boost in usage. Contrary is a bit on the borderline between A- and S-Class, but I feel that Serperior in Dream World(and eventually OU) is the example that pushes the ability to S-Class. Serperior is a major threat entirely because of Contrary + Leaf Storm, and without it would be generally overlooked.

 

[StallMandibuzz]

But Contrary is given to a choice few Pokémon, and out of the few that have it, only Serperior and possibly Spinda are viable. Prankster was given a much wider distribution, and it makes even NFE Pokémon like Cottonee and Murkrow viable. If Contrary was given to more Pokémon, then it could possibly shine, but it's only given to Spinda, the Snivy line, and Shuckle. That's it.

 

[Manaphy]

Prankster: Abstain
Contrary: Do not change tier

Contrary shouldn't be judged based on it's distribution, but the ability itself It has great potential to push a Pokemon from NU to OU quite easily, as shown in Serperior. While it wouldn't be good on everything, it's potential is immense. Imagine it on a Dragon type.

 

[Jimera0]

Prankster: No change
Contrary: Change tier

Prankster because everything gets status moves of some sort, and no matter what they are getting priority on them is epic. Anything with thunder wave or will-o-wisp immediately gets a massive benefit from it. Anything with a defense boosting move gets an immediate boost from it. Anything with taunt gets a massive boost from it. Anything with recovery gets a massive boost from it. Many, many pokemon could benefit from priority substitute (which is distributed to ALL POKEMON THAT CAN LEARN TMS). In short; almost anything gets a massive boost from it.

Contrary on the other hand requires one of a few moves to be truly useful, and prevents ordinary stat boosting in return. As such, some Pokemon benefit from it tremendously while others do not. In short, it's kind of in an odd spot, where it can be incredibly powerful, incredibly harmful (Haxorus would HATE contrary for example), or hardly effect them at all (Ferrothorn just wouldn't give a shit for example). It is not however universally beneficial enough to be S tier in my opinion. Sure it can boost SOME pokemon massively, but the fact that it flat out harms other Pokemon negates that severely. Ultimately, that puts it in the A tier in my opinion, as it DOES help more than it harms.

 

[alexwolf]

All you guys that are voting for Contrary to stay in the S tier are forgetting that the ability has a characteristic that belongs to the F tier:

F Tier- abilities that truly have no competitive purpose in single battles or are downright detrimental to the Pokémon.

Just put Contrary on most set-up sweepers in OU, and you can realize why this ability is clearly not tier S material. It may break some mons, but it also makes some others from very good to mediocre or shitty. You think Lucario would be OU if he had Contrary? Or what about Gyarados and Dragonite? And don't even let me talk about Cloyster, which without being able to use Shell Smash and without Skill Link would be RU/NU.

 

[royzizzle]

All you guys that are voting for Contrary to stay in the S tier are forgetting that the ability has a characteristic that belongs to the F tier:



Just put Contrary on most set-up sweepers in OU, and you can realize why this ability is clearly not tier S material. It may break some mons, but it also makes some others from very good to mediocre or shitty. You think Lucario would be OU if he had Contrary? Or what about Gyarados and Dragonite? And don't even let me talk about Cloyster, which without being able to use Shell Smash and without Skill Link would be RU/NU.

dragonite can draco meteor spam
lucario can close combat spam

many pokemon can take advantage of stat dropping moves

 

[Lork]

dragonite can draco meteor spam
lucario can close combat spam

many pokemon can take advantage of stat dropping moves

conkeldurr superpower spam!

 

[pharaohcalvin]

But Contrary is given to a choice few Pokémon, and out of the few that have it, only Serperior and possibly Spinda are viable. Prankster was given a much wider distribution, and it makes even NFE Pokémon like Cottonee and Murkrow viable. If Contrary was given to more Pokémon, then it could possibly shine, but it's only given to Spinda, the Snivy line, and Shuckle. That's it.

If the purpose of this thread you consider what if every pokemon could have this ability. Who would it improve? How wouldn't it? Then consider does it match the description of what tier.

About the Lucario, why? I much rather be able to use Sword Dance. Contrary is down right horrible on it. It is rather blah on any pokemon with a set up move. Everyone just has there panties in a knot over Draco Meteor spamage, which is only a small amount of pokemon, almost all of which are already viable. So no it doesn't normally make unusable pokemon usable. Remember just because a pokemon can take advantage of stat lowering moves doesn't mean it is its best option.