1v1 reversed

[Temporaryanonymous]

Blessed by Slayer95 and approved by Eevee General

This meta is in a similar format to 1v1. Each player brings 3 Pokemon, and picks one to battle with during team preview. The difference between this and regular 1v1 however, is that instead of picking what move to use, you pick what move your opponent will use (against you).

Player A has a Lapras with Ice Beam / Surf / Thunderbolt / Dragon Pulse
Player B has a Latias with Psychic / Draco Meteor / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam

Player A will pick what move Latias will use on Lapras, which will most likely be Ice Beam in this case, since Lapras has a 4x resistance to Ice. Player B will most likely pick Thunderbolt, as Lapras does not have STAB on it, and it is not very effective against Latias. However, if the Lapras player has a sufficiently specially defensive Lapras with an item like leftovers, they might also opt to go for Draco Meteor and hope to lower Latias's special attack and weaken its overall attacks.

What happens in this case is that most status moves (like boosting moves or substitute) will be dropped from movesets as it is a move that allows the opponent to make you not attack. Additionally, carrying certain type attacking moves like Normal/Fighting/Electric/Ground is now a lot more dangerous, because if matched up against a Ghost/Ground/Flying type, you effectively cannot hit your opponent. For items like choice items, LO, they work as normal (if you pick a move on your opponent's choiced pokemon, you're locked into that move) and you choose when the opponent mega evolves.

Players will need to make their Pokemon have plenty of coverage to hit lots of type combinations, but also make sure that their moves won't be completely negated or rendered ineffective against the opponent.

Abilities, priorities, and self-destruct clause all function as if the Pokemon using it used it.

Player A has a Typhlosion (with blaze) at 20%hp with Flamethrower
Player B has a Charizard (with blaze) at at 80%hp with Fire blast
Player A wants Charizard to use Fire blast on his Typhlosion. The move is not boosted by blaze since the user (Charizard) is not in blaze range.
Player B wants Typhlosion to use Flamethrower on his Charizard. The move is boosted by blazesince the user (Typhlosion) is in blaze range.

Player A has a Furret at 100%hp with Quick-attack
Player B has a +6 speed Deoxys with Psychic
Player A wants Deoxys to use Psychic on his Furret
Player B wants Furret to use quick-attack on his Deoxys.
Furret will go first and use quick-attack first since it has +1 priority.

Player A has a Golem at 1%hp with Explosion
Player B has a Geodude at 1%hp with Self destruct
The Golem will use Explosion first since it has higher speed, and because it fainted first, self destruct clause rules it as Player A's loss even though Player B chose the move for Player A

 

[Mysterious Player]

seems interesting, but would have been more interesting if you got to pick what mon your opponent sends out against you instead.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

Heh, this metagame seems cool. On thing that appears to be obvious is that boosting is a definite no-go, as is stall. As a result, the metagame will likely be offense heavy- you cant rely on your opponent clicking recover. That being said, I almost expect offense to have little diversity as well. Moves with immunities are much worse here, as is running anything not named your stabs. In fact, 1-or-2 move pokemon could very well be the norm, with choice items putting increased damage on whatever your opponent decides (It's whatever's worst against you- (s)he won't be clicking anything else.

 

[Whydon]

and you choose when the opponent mega evolves.

So uh, does this basically mean Mega Evolving is done? The only circumstances I see Mega-Evolving happening is if the opponent will gain an additional weakness to your coverage moves, but other than that, there really is no reason to Mega-Evolve things like Charizard.

 

[MAMP]

there is literally no reason to run more than one move on your moveset in this meta. coverage on your set is completely pointless because your opponent will never choose it, and it is actually detrimental to have more different types of moves on your set as it makes it more likely that you will have a move that your opponent resists. i'll demonstrate this with an example: say you have a scarf kyu-b with ice beam. you might be tempted to put on fusion bolt to hit water-types that wall this set, but doing so is pointless; when kyu-b goes up against a water type your opponent will never pick fusion bolt, so it doesn't actually help kyu-b to beat anything. not only that, but having fusion bolt means that kyu-b no longer beats the grass and ground-types that it usually stomps.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

there is literally no reason to run more than one move on your moveset in this meta. coverage on your set is completely pointless because your opponent will never choose it, and it is actually detrimental to have more different types of moves on your set as it makes it more likely that you will have a move that your opponent resists. i'll demonstrate this with an example: say you have a scarf kyu-b with ice beam. you might be tempted to put on fusion bolt to hit water-types that wall this set, but doing so is pointless; when kyu-b goes up against a water type your opponent will never pick fusion bolt, so it doesn't actually help kyu-b to beat anything. not only that, but having fusion bolt means that kyu-b no longer beats the grass and ground-types that it usually stomps.

Well, if you have multiple, usually equal stabs I can see it because that way they cant PP stall it. Victini, for instance, could run V-create+searing shot, and force their opponent to hope they don't get burned or nuke themselves- and after 8 turns do the other as well. It probably isn't super relevant, but it isn't pointless.

 

[Akumeoy]

there is literally no reason to run more than one move on your moveset in this meta. coverage on your set is completely pointless because your opponent will never choose it, and it is actually detrimental to have more different types of moves on your set as it makes it more likely that you will have a move that your opponent resists. i'll demonstrate this with an example: say you have a scarf kyu-b with ice beam. you might be tempted to put on fusion bolt to hit water-types that wall this set, but doing so is pointless; when kyu-b goes up against a water type your opponent will never pick fusion bolt, so it doesn't actually help kyu-b to beat anything. not only that, but having fusion bolt means that kyu-b no longer beats the grass and ground-types that it usually stomps.

If that's the case, then suddenly stall becomes viable -- If people are only suiting up their offensive Pokemon with one move, then PP stall becomes a much simpler task. Soft-Boiled + Protect Chansey, for example, won't have to worry about getting set up on or doing nothing to the opponent.

Clefable, Gliscor, Latias, Latios, Mew, Scizor, Togekiss, Volcarona, Celebi, and Umbreon are all notable for bulk + their access to multiple recovery moves (or in Gliscor's case, PH + Roost + Protect, and Volcarona's faux physical bulk thanks to Flame Body) that can let them stall out moves with more than 16 PP, but even then they run the risk of being stalled out by mons with more PP than them.

EDIT: But then, all of these (save the Steel-types and maybe Mew) are susceptible to Toxic stall.

Another option is to just add a clause mandating that all four moveslots are used.

 

[gragon73]

I feel like it would help this meta be not just a who-deals-more-damage-when-NVE game if you added some clause with a Torment-like effect, so that no one can have the opponent spamming Fake Out or Quick Attack against an Aggron.

Also, Tinted Lens will be GREAT.

 

[I like donkeys]

I agree that running double STAB will be optimal in this metagame (like victini with vcreate+searing shot) because otherwise if people only brought one move then shit like this would be running around:

Dusclops @ Eviolite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Disable
-
-

Disables their only move and forces them to struggle to death

I feel like it would help this meta be not just a who-deals-more-damage-when-NVE game if you added some clause with a Torment-like effect, so that no one can have the opponent spamming Fake Out or Quick Attack against an Aggron.

Also, Tinted Lens will be GREAT.

I don't think a torment-like clause is needed, if you don't want the opponent to make you spam fake out against their aggron, dont put fake out on your set lol. I do think it's a cool idea, but it seems like it would be a different meta all together (ie Tormentmons 1v1).
And yeah tinted lens will be wicked :P

 

[lost heros]

How does mega-evolving work? Presumably your opponent chooses for you?

 

[I like donkeys]

How does mega-evolving work? Presumably your opponent chooses for you?

I would have to think so, would be kinda weird to be presented with your opponent's moves and your own Pokemon's mega form :o it would be simpler and easier to give your opponent the option to mega. But if that were the case then mega pokemon would be 100% useless :(

btw, Shedinja is looking to be godly, if your opponent has a move that is not fire, flying, dark, ghost or rock and doesn't have moldbreaker then you auto-lose to sheddy. I'd even suggest a quickban because that is just ridiculous.

 

[Akumeoy]

I would have to think so, would be kinda weird to be presented with your opponent's moves and your own Pokemon's mega form :o it would be simpler and easier to give your opponent the option to mega. But if that were the case then mega pokemon would be 100% useless :(

btw, Shedinja is looking to be godly, if your opponent has a move that is not fire, flying, dark, ghost or rock and doesn't have moldbreaker then you auto-lose to sheddy. I'd even suggest a quickban because that is just ridiculous.

See, in theory that's a perfectly good reason to ban Shedinja... but the more I think about it, I kind of want to see how absurd and degenerate this meta can become. Because losing if you have a single move that isn't good against your opponent is not amenable to conventional ideas of balance, metagame health, etc. so why not just go whole hog and invalidate everything that can't KO Shedinja with every move? Wouldn't it be interesting to see what kind of strategies manage to thrive in an incredibly hostile environment?

But if that's not the ban philosophy here then yes absolutely ban Shedinja.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

I agree that running double STAB will be optimal in this metagame (like victini with vcreate+searing shot) because otherwise if people only brought one move then shit like this would be running around:

Dusclops @ Eviolite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Disable
-
-

Disables their only move and forces them to struggle to death

I don't think a torment-like clause is needed, if you don't want the opponent to make you spam fake out against their aggron, dont put fake out on your set lol. I do think it's a cool idea, but it seems like it would be a different meta all together (ie Tormentmons 1v1).
And yeah tinted lens will be wicked :P

Basically this. In addition, single move coverage is far more important, so formerly good combos like ghost/fight are bad while Flying or Fairy are great.

On another note, moves like charge beam/pup are probably decent coverage to run, as while they really hurt you vs ground/ghost they allow you to avoid things like disable, cursed body, torment, etc while increasing the damage of themselves/other moves until your opponent can't handle them.

 

[lost heros]

I would have to think so, would be kinda weird to be presented with your opponent's moves and your own Pokemon's mega form :o it would be simpler and easier to give your opponent the option to mega. But if that were the case then mega pokemon would be 100% useless :(

btw, Shedinja is looking to be godly, if your opponent has a move that is not fire, flying, dark, ghost or rock and doesn't have moldbreaker then you auto-lose to sheddy. I'd even suggest a quickban because that is just ridiculous.

You're probably right. There goes mega-lopunny only using Last Resort.

Shedinja isn't godly in this meta. It is God. Literally. Quick ban plz

 

[I like donkeys]

See, in theory that's a perfectly good reason to ban Shedinja... but the more I think about it, I kind of want to see how absurd and degenerate this meta can become. Because losing if you have a single move that isn't good against your opponent is not amenable to conventional ideas of balance, metagame health, etc. so why not just go whole hog and invalidate everything that can't KO Shedinja with every move? Wouldn't it be interesting to see what kind of strategies manage to thrive in an incredibly hostile environment?

But if that's not the ban philosophy here then yes absolutely ban Shedinja.

You know what i kinda have to agree with you there, it would be very interesting seeing how people adapt and modify movesets to such a broken mon. It'd be like how mandatory it is to imposter-proof your team and bring answers for shed in bh, but on a whole new level lol

 

[Mysterious Player]

If that's the case, then suddenly stall becomes viable -- If people are only suiting up their offensive Pokemon with one move, then PP stall becomes a much simpler task. Soft-Boiled + Protect Chansey, for example, won't have to worry about getting set up on or doing nothing to the opponent.

Clefable, Gliscor, Latias, Latios, Mew, Scizor, Togekiss, Volcarona, Celebi, and Umbreon are all notable for bulk + their access to multiple recovery moves (or in Gliscor's case, PH + Roost + Protect, and Volcarona's faux physical bulk thanks to Flame Body) that can let them stall out moves with more than 16 PP, but even then they run the risk of being stalled out by mons with more PP than them.

EDIT: But then, all of these (save the Steel-types and maybe Mew) are susceptible to Toxic stall.

Another option is to just add a clause mandating that all four moveslots are used.

That Chansey set is not viable. Your opponent can just keep clicking protect, and eventually you die.

 

[Akumeoy]

That Chansey set is not viable. Your opponent can just keep clicking protect, and eventually you die.

okay yeah Protect was a mistake but still PH + Roost is nice

 

[Mysterious Player]

I doubt my opinion on the Shedinja subject is needed, but you can easily run shed + mons that resist its weaknesses and force to opponent into a 50/50 on whether they and to send out their shedinja counter or not (and if they do, one of Shedinja's teammates win)

 

[Knuckstrike]

isn't it a 1v1 with 3v3 team preview still, meaning you can bring something that can either break through abilities or hits shedinja.

Btw you can use assault vest with like protect/sub/raindance/move so a 4-move clause isn't working either.

 

[lost heros]

isn't it a 1v1 with 3v3 team preview still, meaning you can bring something that can either break through abilities or hits shedinja.

Btw you can use assault vest with like protect/sub/raindance/move so a 4-move clause isn't working either.

Yeah, we know. That doesn't change that it's broken. Unless all your Pokemon have mold breaker and only fire/flying/ghost/Rock/dark type moves.

Also what's the ban list

 

[Knuckstrike]

Not every single mon has to beat shedinja, just like not every single mon has to beat every other mon. Who cares if you only have 1-2 mons that can hit shedinja on your team?

Just because half the mons in this meta can't hit it doesn't mean it's broken. Most top tier 1v1 mons can beat ~60% of the mons in the tier. Does that make them broken? It simply means you should run at least 1 of the 40% of the tier to not lose to that mon.

It's really not as big a difference as you make it out to be: whether you can't hit it at all or can hit it but still lose to it doesn't matter in 1v1. You lose either way.

 

[lost heros]

I think you're underestimating how much pressure shedinja would put on the meta.

 

[ParadoxEngine]

Alright I think that I'm not understanding this meta although it sounds cool. Like from what I understand, you can have a ghost type just carry Return or some other normal type move, and then they're untouchable. I don't think that's the case, because that's completely broken. I think it would help if the examples you use in the original post don't share moves.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

Alright I think that I'm not understanding this meta although it sounds cool. Like from what I understand, you can have a ghost type just carry Return or some other normal type move, and then they're untouchable. I don't think that's the case, because that's completely broken. I think it would help if the examples you use in the original post don't share moves.

No, what happens is that your opponent controls your pokemon, and you control theirs. They can use your pokemon to attack their pokemon, and you use theirs to attack your pokemon.

 

[AdriansLucario]

Shedinja is pretty broken, but my favorite way to deal with it is Rocky Helmet.