Wouldn't it be crazy if you doubled into a physical attacker?Don't you mean 3 free turns? Protect says hi.Turn 1: Protect
Turn 2: Needs free turn
Turn 3: Protect
Turn 4: Needs free turn
Turn 5: Protect
Turn 6: Needs free turn
Turn 7: Protect
Wow, I didn't know about this? What if, on these stall archetypes, there was a certain normal type pink blob? Wouldn't it be crazy if it was the best special wall? Wouldn't it be crazy if the stall player could predict you as well? What if Gliscor is a physical wall mainly? Do you use non-Archaludon against special attacks?
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Support reliance limits it, wouldn’t ban it yet. Certainly worthy of survey inclusion
I like hoopa unbound. Let’s go!!!!!
Just ban hypnosis at this point. Move is on so many mons that spore can stick around.
No, there's no point in only banning one move with 60% accuracy. The question right now is if sleep is broken/uncompetitive or not. If yes, ban sleep wholesale so people don't try to innovate cheese for it. If no, ban Darkrai and maybe Iron Valiant too. Only banning sleep from specific moves brings us closer to complex ban territory. No one wants to go back to the days of banning Baton Pass incrementally.
Disagree.... imo this mon is terrible, to the point I'm wondering how it was banned in earlier gens. This mon just loses to too much shit between dozo, dirge, Pex, dragonite, lando-T, etc, needs to rely on tera for free setup, has giga-bad 4mss, etc. Even when it meets the perfect conditions to sweep, it winds up killing itself with Flare Blitz Recoil. The terrible initial speed really limits its setup oppurtunities compared to its competitors like valiant + it feels impossible to break through mons like Dirge.
What I've been impressed by is how Blaziken still loses to Gambit despite having the typing and stats to beat it on paper.
This mon can cheese wins here and there, but it feels the opposite of a consistent, reliable pick.
The one thing I'll say that Low Kick is an incredible STAB move in this meta.
i've never seen archaludon as oppressive on rain or in general. most of the time i see it on rain, it ends up crumpling to two special hits and taking out one mon at most. the sets i see outside of rain are more threatening in my experience, and those are fine as long as you can apply the right kind of pressure. it's bizarre because i've seen some people insist, among other things, that it's more broken than dracovish and that anyone who disagrees doesn't play the game at all, and yet i'm not seeing indicators of it even being a problem. could someone point me to replays where it does an outsized amount of work or straight-up wins games in the same way that, say, kyurem and sleep are doing?
Not gonna lie, it might be a skill issue but I'm pretty sure I've lost more to Barraskewda on rain than Archaludon. Archaludon snacks on physical attacks and if you play it well you're pretty much guaranteed a kill and probably at least 2, but it can be pressured offensively fairly easy. It can just require some pretty aggressive doubles sometimes, but the same goes for a lot of wallbreakers.
As someone whose most-used team is a rain team prominently featuring Archaludon, it's definitely not broken. The need to invest in Speed to beat Kingambit means it's not as tanky as it wants to be. Whichever defensive stat you don't invest in, you're gonna get 2HKOd through. I think most people just don't know how to handle Archaludon. You wanna know what your best option is? Switch in Great Tusk for free on Electro Shot and threaten it that way.
Absolutely, the main choice band set hits like a truck and is great for revenge kills, anything that doesn't 4x resist it while having great physical bulk or have an immunity is going to be smacked by it very hard. Of course, I've used mystic water set myself, since band is the main set people run, so even that can be difficult. Priority helps against it, though watch out for aqua jet sets, as those can take advanatage of that. Archaludon at least can be outsped, even by jolly great tusk while being weak to it's stabs. Skewda may have awful bulk, but who cares when nothing survives your hits.
Well some of those not existing and Gen 7's Z-Moves not having recoil to kill itself probably would have helped there plus HJK risking Crashes but not weakening its Defenses and thus opening it up to neutral/resisted Priority like CC does.
Gen 9 is where it's really sufferring because it gets set-up opportunities about as easy as 30 other things that hit harder off that chance, and even 1 round of Spikes spam cuts into a Recoil reliant mon FAR more. Chicken wants Raging Fury so much.
I think I threw up in my mouth a little
Iron Crown doesn’t really have anything to its name other, better Psychics don’t. They can make better use of Tera Fighting Blast, they can make use of better Defensive Teras, etc.
Okay fine jolly Kingambit...
52 EVs for jolly Kingambit is literally nothing lmfao, tons of 'mons take out investment far greater than 52 EVs, so I don't see why this is even considered as an argument along the lines of Archaludon not being broken. Also, if you do actually play against Archaludon, you would know just how difficult it can be to punish it. It's hard to kill, usually goes at least one for one, if not more, and has a great typing backed by a busted ability. Great Tusk is not switching into a draco meteor or dragon pulse (252+ SpA Archaludon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 376-444 (101.3 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO), doing nothing to the 'mon if it teras, not even KO-ing with headlong rush (93.7% of the time, 252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 314-372 (84.6 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO), and if you do go down this path, I got a Kingambit literally in the back lol thanks for your donation. "Oh it has to predict your Great Tusk" yeah and even if you do get the prediction right you sacrifice your Kingambit check on a structure that does run Kingambit a decent amount of times and your hazard removal. Also, if I don't like the situation, I can just switch out; I resist rocks, I can switch in on a lot of things, and I can recreate the situation again such that I can get the toss up the time it does land a draco meteor on Great Tusk.
Archaludon can be scary if given a few turns of setup, but it can be stretched pretty thin on what it wants to do, I feel. Stuff like the AV sets aren't that difficult to call out, and utility sets have to give up power. It can be pretty easy to tell which set it is based on it's team support, which is likes to rely on. As someone else said, it just takes more aggressive plays to take care of. Not pressing at all imo
actually, pressing is one of the biggest things it does
Well for one, every recommended Archaludon set has 56 Speed EVs set aside for Jolly Kingambit, and I think most people would agree that's very reasonable, so we can just go ahead and completely ignore this first image.
Is this an amount small enough that it's an argument for why it's broken? This isn't a point. Archaludon can't maximize its HP, and it's not the biggest downside in the world, but it's not as if this doesn't affect it.
Forcing the opponent to Terastallize Archaludon early while preserving your own Tera is a form of progress. Archaludon's amazing defensive typing is something it wants to keep, so making Tera gives it one turn of free momentum but overall makes it much more fragile. I use Tera Flying, and suddenly gaining all those weaknesses really hurts. If Archaludon Terastallizes, it's probably lasting that one turn only.
Archaludon does not get to run Leftovers on the Draco Meteor set that actually threatens Great Tusk. Even though it resists Stealth Rock, having it up makes a huge difference in this matchup:
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 314-372 (84.6 - 100.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Tusk coming in becomes almost a coin flip of whether or not it KOs Archaludon, and this becomes an 80% chance if it switches in twice or the opponent is using Spikes instead. Two layers of Spikes make it a guaranteed OHKO. You can definitely switch out if you don't like the situation you're in, but the matchup becomes riskier every time you do so. Archaludon wants to come in once and stay in as long as possible because entry hazards hobble its ability to keep eating hits. Tusk fears Draco Meteor, but AV Archaludon is the easiest thing to call out in the world. You need to be more aggressive.
I'm not trying to downplay Archaludon or say it's actually bad. But it sounds to me like your problem is that you're respecting it way too much. AV Electro Shot isn't even its best set. This is not banworthy at all.
Last edited:
Fuck meta discussion
it's even funnier the second time
(not being sarcastic, this time is actually funnier)
Blaziken (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- Substitute
Half the counters you listed die to EQ
Seeing this post directly underneath mine is the kind of thing I've had nightmares about.
I think I've kinda lost the courage to post here. I'll be back at some point ish, probably.
What's wrong about Metagross discussion?
DaRotomMachine
I COULD BE BANNED!
Maybe because it had a mega evolution and Dozo didn't exist?
Counterpoint: ban hypnosis, assess, ban sleep if the hypnosis ban doesn't help. One complex ban.
Let the record show that I haven’t even read your post and it had nothing to do with your post, but rather a meme in a discord server
I’m sure you have a ton of awesome insight to provide and I’m excited to hear more from you and other invested players.
If you have worries about how you’re coming off, feel free to PM me anytime too and I’m happy to help with anything I can! Sorry for the confusion here
