-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Resource XY LC Threat list
- Thread starter tcr
- Start date
Are you talking about his post for Gothita? Because Gothita traps and beats Gastly lol,,,
Rowan ill be compiling a pastebin of a potential completed OP, and you can QC it before its actually posted in the op
Shadow Tag doesn't trap ghosts lol
Amaura, me, The Avalanches, sparktrain, and OP are checking through the list, and making some edits, we'll each post here with anything that's not quite right
Well, let me know if I can help.
Darumaka
This is good. It has a few grammar errors, but I assume GP will be sorting through this after.
Diglett
Diglett's second ability is Sand Veil, which is missing. I'd also like to see a mention for Substitute, which is useful on Life Orb sets.
Doduo
Still good
Drifloon (U)
This is really out of date and inaccurate in parts. It says that Knock Off doesn't activate Berry Juice and that Focus Sash and Weakness Policy are the best items to use on offensive sets. It also says that Sub-BJ is an unreliable way to activate Unburden when it is in fact the most reliable.
I think Drifloon deserves an offensive entry given all the options it can run, separate to this utility entry, that makes light of its good support options and Baton Pass potential.
Drilbur
First sentence isn't quite true; it obviously faces competition from Staryu, but it's still an excellent spinner obviously. I'd like to see Poison Jab mentioned as a way to corner Cottonee.
Dwebble (O)
STAB Rock Blast should absolutely be mentioned over Stone Edge. Rock Blast is better for reasons. Aerial Ace isn't really a good option as it barely out-powers Dwebble's STAB coverage, rather, Knock Off should be mentioned as it provides great neutral coverage and removes items. The last few sentences are mostly unnecessary fluff, and I don't agree with the sentence that suggests an alternate EV spread, 236 / 236 is the only way to go, really.
Dwebble (U)
Succinct and to the point.
Elekid
I would like to see a mention for HP Grass, which gives Elekid better coverage against Chinchou and Drilbur on special sets. Other than that, all good.
Ferroseed
I'm not seeing the point in two sets here, especially as they both mention pretty much the same qualities. The utility set doesn't mention anything the defensive set doesn't, so I believe it should be removed and the defensive set remain. Leech Seed deserves a mention, and now that Ferroseed has Knock Off, the mention of Payback should be removed. Poison Jab is practically useless and should be removed.
Frillish
This is good.
Fletchling
U-turn and Hidden Power probably deserve mentions, but this is good otherwise.
Foongus
Foongus reliably switches into pretty much every Fairy-type in the tier and threatens with Sludge Bomb -- this deserves a mention.
Gastly
This entry gets a bit too technical rather than addressing Gastly's attributes. The talk of EVs should probably go. Aside from that, I believe this entry is good.
Gothita
Gastly is a Ghost-type an therefore unaffected by trapping mechanics. Trick could be worth a mention as this allows Gothita to cripple an opposing wall. Energy Ball and Thunderbolt need to be mentioned, as they allow Gothita to trap and beat foes that Psychic can't touch.
Grimer
Is this thing even used or seen enough to warrant an entry? The information is all correct I guess, but I don't think Sticky Hold is enough of a niche to differentiate itself from other Poison-types.
Growlithe
Goodly wrote.
Hippopotas
Hippopotas has a really good a
Attack stat and its STAB Earthquakes really hurt. It also has Rock Tomb to punish switches.
Honedge
Goodly wrote.
Houndour
I'd like to see a mention for Pursuit as Houndour is one of the best users of the move in the tier given how well it matches up against the likes of Abra and Gastly.
Koffing
I think the writer of this entry perhaps meant to to say that Koffing's Fire-type coverage breezes past Steel-types, rather than Fire-types.
Larvesta (O)
Wild Charge and Zen Headbutt are common coverage options for Larvesta's Choice Scarf set and their merits should be mentioned.
Larvesta (D)
This is good.
Lickitung
Body Slam is a useful STAB option for crippling foes, particularly on a stally Pokemon like Lickitung. It deserves a mention alongside Knock Off, as both moves compete for a slot.
This is good. It has a few grammar errors, but I assume GP will be sorting through this after.
Diglett
Diglett's second ability is Sand Veil, which is missing. I'd also like to see a mention for Substitute, which is useful on Life Orb sets.
Doduo
Still good
Drifloon (U)
This is really out of date and inaccurate in parts. It says that Knock Off doesn't activate Berry Juice and that Focus Sash and Weakness Policy are the best items to use on offensive sets. It also says that Sub-BJ is an unreliable way to activate Unburden when it is in fact the most reliable.
I think Drifloon deserves an offensive entry given all the options it can run, separate to this utility entry, that makes light of its good support options and Baton Pass potential.
Drilbur
First sentence isn't quite true; it obviously faces competition from Staryu, but it's still an excellent spinner obviously. I'd like to see Poison Jab mentioned as a way to corner Cottonee.
Dwebble (O)
STAB Rock Blast should absolutely be mentioned over Stone Edge. Rock Blast is better for reasons. Aerial Ace isn't really a good option as it barely out-powers Dwebble's STAB coverage, rather, Knock Off should be mentioned as it provides great neutral coverage and removes items. The last few sentences are mostly unnecessary fluff, and I don't agree with the sentence that suggests an alternate EV spread, 236 / 236 is the only way to go, really.
Dwebble (U)
Succinct and to the point.
Elekid
I would like to see a mention for HP Grass, which gives Elekid better coverage against Chinchou and Drilbur on special sets. Other than that, all good.
Ferroseed
I'm not seeing the point in two sets here, especially as they both mention pretty much the same qualities. The utility set doesn't mention anything the defensive set doesn't, so I believe it should be removed and the defensive set remain. Leech Seed deserves a mention, and now that Ferroseed has Knock Off, the mention of Payback should be removed. Poison Jab is practically useless and should be removed.
Frillish
This is good.
Fletchling
U-turn and Hidden Power probably deserve mentions, but this is good otherwise.
Foongus
Foongus reliably switches into pretty much every Fairy-type in the tier and threatens with Sludge Bomb -- this deserves a mention.
Gastly
This entry gets a bit too technical rather than addressing Gastly's attributes. The talk of EVs should probably go. Aside from that, I believe this entry is good.
Gothita
Gastly is a Ghost-type an therefore unaffected by trapping mechanics. Trick could be worth a mention as this allows Gothita to cripple an opposing wall. Energy Ball and Thunderbolt need to be mentioned, as they allow Gothita to trap and beat foes that Psychic can't touch.
Grimer
Is this thing even used or seen enough to warrant an entry? The information is all correct I guess, but I don't think Sticky Hold is enough of a niche to differentiate itself from other Poison-types.
Growlithe
Goodly wrote.
Hippopotas
Hippopotas has a really good a
Attack stat and its STAB Earthquakes really hurt. It also has Rock Tomb to punish switches.
Honedge
Goodly wrote.
Houndour
I'd like to see a mention for Pursuit as Houndour is one of the best users of the move in the tier given how well it matches up against the likes of Abra and Gastly.
Koffing
I think the writer of this entry perhaps meant to to say that Koffing's Fire-type coverage breezes past Steel-types, rather than Fire-types.
Larvesta (O)
Wild Charge and Zen Headbutt are common coverage options for Larvesta's Choice Scarf set and their merits should be mentioned.
Larvesta (D)
This is good.
Lickitung
Body Slam is a useful STAB option for crippling foes, particularly on a stally Pokemon like Lickitung. It deserves a mention alongside Knock Off, as both moves compete for a slot.
Lileep (Defensive) - good
Magby (Offensive) - I feel like Magby is being overhyped at the beginning of this entry. Phrases such as "destroying the metagame with its power" could be altered a bit to describe how it can sweep a team late-game. Also, it feels awkward to mention Tirtouga as a Cross Chop target, then go on to say that you need Mach Punch to avoid being hit by Tirtouga's Aqua Jet. I'd rather see Normal-types such as Porygon and Munchlax listed for Cross Chop.
It's also stated that "Thief allows Magby to beat Sturdy + Berry Juice users at full health." This is untrue; Magby will be defeated regardless by Tirtouga's Waterfall, Onix's Earthquake, Dwebble's Rock Blast (with at least 3 hits), etc. This should be rephrased to explain how Magby can hamper the longevity of certain walls/support mons by stealing their Eviolite/Berry Juice, or something to that effect.
Magnemite (Utility) - good
Magnemite (Offensive) - Analytic should get a mention somewhere in here, otherwise good.
Mantyke (Defensive) - good
Mantyke (Offensive) - Might've been a copy/paste error, but the hidden ability (Water Veil) is missing. Also, this summary might be getting a little too technical with EV/IV descriptions.
Meowth (Offensive) - I'd like for Meowth's options with Technician to be expanded on; Aerial Ace, Hidden Power, and Feint are all examples. The Seed Bomb mention is questionable; Technician-boosted Hidden Power Grass with minimal investment does more damage to Chinchou, Tirtouga, Hippopotas, etc.
Mienfoo (Defensive) - good. I'd like to see Baton Pass Mienfoo get a mention either here or under a "Mienfoo (Utility)" entry.
Mienfoo (Offensive) - good
Munchlax (Defensive) - Pursuit should get a mention, otherwise good.
Natu (Utility) - good
Omanyte (Defensive) - good, but I think that renaming this to "Omanyte (Utility)" would be more fitting; the entry hazard set is more of a support mon than a wall.
Omanyte (Offensive) - good
Onix (Utility) - good
Pancham (Offensive) - Gunk Shot and Zen Headbutt could use mentions; they're quite helpful options for breaking past Fightings/Poisons and Spritzee respectively, and they are a big part of what sets Pancham apart from other Fighting-types.
Also, "It being mono Fighting-type doesn't help much either, as it could certainly appreciate the Dark-type its evolution possesses" <- I don't think this sentence is really necessary.
Pawniard (Offensive) - great
Ponyta (Defensive) - The last sentence could be expanded to mention how Solar Beam blasts through would-be checks such as Chinchou.
Porygon (Defensive) - good
Porygon (Offensive) - good
Pumpkaboo-Super (Defensive) - good
Riolu (Offensive) - The current wording makes High Jump Kick seem inferior to Drain Punch, when I feel that it's the other way around, so that could be altered. Also, the Crunch mention should be changed to Blaze Kick; a bit more powerful, and Blaze Kick > Crunch in practice most of the time since it also hits cotton/foongus harder, and still does plenty to Gastly. There's also a Misdreavus mention in here, so that needs to be removed.
Scraggy (Offensive) - I'd rather not have Bulk Up mentioned in here, but if it stays, the Dragon Dance set should be emphasized more.
Sewaddle (Utility) - good summary, but does Sewaddle really need to be in the threat list? It's a D rank mon for a reason; Surskit and Spinarak are just the better Sticky Web setters 99% of time as they offer numerous benefits over Sewaddle.
Magby (Offensive) - I feel like Magby is being overhyped at the beginning of this entry. Phrases such as "destroying the metagame with its power" could be altered a bit to describe how it can sweep a team late-game. Also, it feels awkward to mention Tirtouga as a Cross Chop target, then go on to say that you need Mach Punch to avoid being hit by Tirtouga's Aqua Jet. I'd rather see Normal-types such as Porygon and Munchlax listed for Cross Chop.
It's also stated that "Thief allows Magby to beat Sturdy + Berry Juice users at full health." This is untrue; Magby will be defeated regardless by Tirtouga's Waterfall, Onix's Earthquake, Dwebble's Rock Blast (with at least 3 hits), etc. This should be rephrased to explain how Magby can hamper the longevity of certain walls/support mons by stealing their Eviolite/Berry Juice, or something to that effect.
Magnemite (Utility) - good
Magnemite (Offensive) - Analytic should get a mention somewhere in here, otherwise good.
Mantyke (Defensive) - good
Mantyke (Offensive) - Might've been a copy/paste error, but the hidden ability (Water Veil) is missing. Also, this summary might be getting a little too technical with EV/IV descriptions.
Meowth (Offensive) - I'd like for Meowth's options with Technician to be expanded on; Aerial Ace, Hidden Power, and Feint are all examples. The Seed Bomb mention is questionable; Technician-boosted Hidden Power Grass with minimal investment does more damage to Chinchou, Tirtouga, Hippopotas, etc.
Mienfoo (Defensive) - good. I'd like to see Baton Pass Mienfoo get a mention either here or under a "Mienfoo (Utility)" entry.
Mienfoo (Offensive) - good
Munchlax (Defensive) - Pursuit should get a mention, otherwise good.
Natu (Utility) - good
Omanyte (Defensive) - good, but I think that renaming this to "Omanyte (Utility)" would be more fitting; the entry hazard set is more of a support mon than a wall.
Omanyte (Offensive) - good
Onix (Utility) - good
Pancham (Offensive) - Gunk Shot and Zen Headbutt could use mentions; they're quite helpful options for breaking past Fightings/Poisons and Spritzee respectively, and they are a big part of what sets Pancham apart from other Fighting-types.
Also, "It being mono Fighting-type doesn't help much either, as it could certainly appreciate the Dark-type its evolution possesses" <- I don't think this sentence is really necessary.
Pawniard (Offensive) - great
Ponyta (Defensive) - The last sentence could be expanded to mention how Solar Beam blasts through would-be checks such as Chinchou.
Porygon (Defensive) - good
Porygon (Offensive) - good
Pumpkaboo-Super (Defensive) - good
Riolu (Offensive) - The current wording makes High Jump Kick seem inferior to Drain Punch, when I feel that it's the other way around, so that could be altered. Also, the Crunch mention should be changed to Blaze Kick; a bit more powerful, and Blaze Kick > Crunch in practice most of the time since it also hits cotton/foongus harder, and still does plenty to Gastly. There's also a Misdreavus mention in here, so that needs to be removed.
Scraggy (Offensive) - I'd rather not have Bulk Up mentioned in here, but if it stays, the Dragon Dance set should be emphasized more.
Sewaddle (Utility) - good summary, but does Sewaddle really need to be in the threat list? It's a D rank mon for a reason; Surskit and Spinarak are just the better Sticky Web setters 99% of time as they offer numerous benefits over Sewaddle.
sparktrain, if you want I can fix errors and defects for my threat.
abra
I don't think encore is exactly important to mention, but other than that, fine
aipom
don't mention return, that's aipom's niche ruined. The only coverage it mentions is knock off+u-turn, when I feel brick break, fire punch, seed bomb, and ice punch are kinda important to show it's unpredictable. I don't think ev spread is that important to mention (remember this is concise).
amaura
got snow warning since ORAS, so blizzard needs a mention, also got hyper voice>nature power. Also gets Earth Power + Tbolt coverage which is worth a small mention
aron (D)
seems fine, maybe just mention resistances to birds+normals is a key part of aron's defensive niche.
aron (O)
rock head + head smash should be mentioned.
archen (d)
it isn't the best at dealing with mienfoo, other than that fine
archen (u)
mention that berry juice can be used as well. mention its 17 speed tier, allowing it to outspeed pawniard
archen (o)
good
axew
good
bellsprout
'Bellsprout has seen a rise in usage thanks to the comeback of sun teams' - don't think threatlist is best place to talk about trends, cos sun is always something you need to look out for. Maybe just a sentence saying weather ball+solar beam+sludge bomb give good covereage
binacle
band/scarf+switcheroo set isn't mentioned. Cross Chop needs to be mentioned, as that's its main niche
bronzor
bronzor doens't get explosion so obviously this user had never even used the mon before writing about it. the description should be focusing on its ability to set up SR, and also walling flying types at the same time (particularly archen.) It should mention recycle. then at the end, should maybe say 'it's bulk can allow it to set up screens or raindance/sunny day/trick room, but it's slow and lacks offensive presence so isn't always the best choice'
bulbasaur
bulbasaur should focus on what it has over bellsprout, and that is bulk which allows it to set up growth. the last sentence is just fairly clunky. possible edit to, 'It also has good bulk for a sweeper while holding an Eviolite, which allows it to set up Growth easily.'
bunnelby
iron head should be mentioned for archen
carvanha
good
chinchou (D)
good. mention the types of threats it pivots in on, electric, flying, water types for the most part.
chinchou (o)
'thanks to the rise of threats like Fletchling' - not needed information. just change to thanks to its unique defensive typing, or smth. this paragraph doens't mention scarf which is dumb, and focuses on the fact it can use agility, which is a bad set. should be talking about scarf sets, or offensive berry juice 17 spe sets with hydro pump which acts as an offensive pivot.
clamperl
sub is mainly for sucker punch. maybe a small mention that clamperl is usable in trick room
corphish
superpower needs a mention.
cottonee
add knock off to the list of spport moves.
cranidos
this should mention the type of coverage that cranidos typically uses, e.g. zenheadbutt, superpoewr, crucnh, earthquake. the paragraph is in general a bit wordy, and sometimes repeats itself, e.g. talking about sheer force at the beginning then later on.
croagunk (o)
croagunk commonly uses EQ on physical sets to beat poison types, so that's a coverage that should be mentioned. other than that, great
croagunk (u)
just a mention that its priority allows it to revenge shell smashers. toxic probably shouldn't have a mention.
cubone
swords dance is bad, shouldn't be mentioned, and i think it's overhyped a little bit. cubone should only be running a 4 attacks set of eq or bonemerang/koff/rock slide/fire punch. this is really good coverage tbf. it's bad speed should be mentioned as a massive issue. mention it's a great TR/sticky web/baton pass receiver mon.
a few nitpicks for most things. bronzor needs a complete rewrite. offensive chinchou might need a rewrite. cubone needs a rewrite probably. amaura and cranidos might need a small bit of work, but the rest is generally adding 1 line/removing 1 line or adding/removing moves
e: apparently this was a 2k post, didn't realise. sorry if you were expecting something like a shoutout or w/e. I'm just so dedicated to LC that I wasted the 2k on this glorious threatlist.
I don't think encore is exactly important to mention, but other than that, fine
aipom
don't mention return, that's aipom's niche ruined. The only coverage it mentions is knock off+u-turn, when I feel brick break, fire punch, seed bomb, and ice punch are kinda important to show it's unpredictable. I don't think ev spread is that important to mention (remember this is concise).
amaura
got snow warning since ORAS, so blizzard needs a mention, also got hyper voice>nature power. Also gets Earth Power + Tbolt coverage which is worth a small mention
aron (D)
seems fine, maybe just mention resistances to birds+normals is a key part of aron's defensive niche.
aron (O)
rock head + head smash should be mentioned.
archen (d)
it isn't the best at dealing with mienfoo, other than that fine
archen (u)
mention that berry juice can be used as well. mention its 17 speed tier, allowing it to outspeed pawniard
archen (o)
good
axew
good
bellsprout
'Bellsprout has seen a rise in usage thanks to the comeback of sun teams' - don't think threatlist is best place to talk about trends, cos sun is always something you need to look out for. Maybe just a sentence saying weather ball+solar beam+sludge bomb give good covereage
binacle
band/scarf+switcheroo set isn't mentioned. Cross Chop needs to be mentioned, as that's its main niche
bronzor
bronzor doens't get explosion so obviously this user had never even used the mon before writing about it. the description should be focusing on its ability to set up SR, and also walling flying types at the same time (particularly archen.) It should mention recycle. then at the end, should maybe say 'it's bulk can allow it to set up screens or raindance/sunny day/trick room, but it's slow and lacks offensive presence so isn't always the best choice'
bulbasaur
bulbasaur should focus on what it has over bellsprout, and that is bulk which allows it to set up growth. the last sentence is just fairly clunky. possible edit to, 'It also has good bulk for a sweeper while holding an Eviolite, which allows it to set up Growth easily.'
bunnelby
iron head should be mentioned for archen
carvanha
good
chinchou (D)
good. mention the types of threats it pivots in on, electric, flying, water types for the most part.
chinchou (o)
'thanks to the rise of threats like Fletchling' - not needed information. just change to thanks to its unique defensive typing, or smth. this paragraph doens't mention scarf which is dumb, and focuses on the fact it can use agility, which is a bad set. should be talking about scarf sets, or offensive berry juice 17 spe sets with hydro pump which acts as an offensive pivot.
clamperl
sub is mainly for sucker punch. maybe a small mention that clamperl is usable in trick room
corphish
superpower needs a mention.
cottonee
add knock off to the list of spport moves.
cranidos
this should mention the type of coverage that cranidos typically uses, e.g. zenheadbutt, superpoewr, crucnh, earthquake. the paragraph is in general a bit wordy, and sometimes repeats itself, e.g. talking about sheer force at the beginning then later on.
croagunk (o)
croagunk commonly uses EQ on physical sets to beat poison types, so that's a coverage that should be mentioned. other than that, great
croagunk (u)
just a mention that its priority allows it to revenge shell smashers. toxic probably shouldn't have a mention.
cubone
swords dance is bad, shouldn't be mentioned, and i think it's overhyped a little bit. cubone should only be running a 4 attacks set of eq or bonemerang/koff/rock slide/fire punch. this is really good coverage tbf. it's bad speed should be mentioned as a massive issue. mention it's a great TR/sticky web/baton pass receiver mon.
a few nitpicks for most things. bronzor needs a complete rewrite. offensive chinchou might need a rewrite. cubone needs a rewrite probably. amaura and cranidos might need a small bit of work, but the rest is generally adding 1 line/removing 1 line or adding/removing moves
e: apparently this was a 2k post, didn't realise. sorry if you were expecting something like a shoutout or w/e. I'm just so dedicated to LC that I wasted the 2k on this glorious threatlist.
Last edited:
Shellder
Razor Shell is only really used for hitting Steel-types, which should be said
Shellos
Mention Pancham messing with it
Skrelp
Has an amazing defensive typing that isn't touched upon at all
Slowpoke
Weak to Volt Switch, U-turn, and Knock Off which are all super common. Mention this.
Snivy
Talk about poor coverage options and a reliance on Hidden Powers
Snubbull
Mention Fire Punch. It's super comparable to Spritzee so saying that its much more offensive than it would be good, because that's why people use Snubbull.
Spinarak
Only used because of its defensive typing which isn't mentioned anywhere. Also mention that it's usually outclassed by Surskit.
Spritzee
I'd like Wish to be talked about a little more for its ability to heal teammates but pretty solid overall.
Staryu
2nd sentence is unneeded and kinda awkward. Offensive set isn't talked about at all but I think that should get its own thing.
Stunky
Remove missy mentions.
Surskit
I don't like the rain team mention. Surskit is the best SW user because it's fast. That's not mentioned at all.
Tentacool
I don't like the specific EV spread/item mention because its just not consistent with other mons.
Timburr
Good
Tirtouga (O)
ZHB is common nowadays, add to list of moves
Tirtouga (D)
Good
Torchic
Good
Trubbish
Terrible offensively, total set-up bait, loses to Pancham. These need to be mentioned because its why Trubbish isn't used very much anymore.
Tyrunt
I don't think Rock Slide is used much, but could be wrong. Mention Dragon Dance
Vullaby
Good
Vulpix
Good
Wooper
I don't like the ev spread mention, it's inconsistent with others.
Wynaut
Pairs really well with set-up sweepers!
Zigzagoon
Good
We did it!
Razor Shell is only really used for hitting Steel-types, which should be said
Shellos
Mention Pancham messing with it
Skrelp
Has an amazing defensive typing that isn't touched upon at all
Slowpoke
Weak to Volt Switch, U-turn, and Knock Off which are all super common. Mention this.
Snivy
Talk about poor coverage options and a reliance on Hidden Powers
Snubbull
Mention Fire Punch. It's super comparable to Spritzee so saying that its much more offensive than it would be good, because that's why people use Snubbull.
Spinarak
Only used because of its defensive typing which isn't mentioned anywhere. Also mention that it's usually outclassed by Surskit.
Spritzee
I'd like Wish to be talked about a little more for its ability to heal teammates but pretty solid overall.
Staryu
2nd sentence is unneeded and kinda awkward. Offensive set isn't talked about at all but I think that should get its own thing.
Stunky
Remove missy mentions.
Surskit
I don't like the rain team mention. Surskit is the best SW user because it's fast. That's not mentioned at all.
Tentacool
I don't like the specific EV spread/item mention because its just not consistent with other mons.
Timburr
Good
Tirtouga (O)
ZHB is common nowadays, add to list of moves
Tirtouga (D)
Good
Torchic
Good
Trubbish
Terrible offensively, total set-up bait, loses to Pancham. These need to be mentioned because its why Trubbish isn't used very much anymore.
Tyrunt
I don't think Rock Slide is used much, but could be wrong. Mention Dragon Dance
Vullaby
Good
Vulpix
Good
Wooper
I don't like the ev spread mention, it's inconsistent with others.
Wynaut
Pairs really well with set-up sweepers!
Zigzagoon
Good
We did it!
Last edited: