Wingull (GP 0/2)

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QC checks: Corkscrew / macle / DTC
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Overview
########
Wingull is LC's friendly neighbourhood seagull, it's cute, awesome, and totally viable. The thing about Wingull is his very rare typing, water/flying, unique to itself and mantyke. The good bit about the typing is that it has just two weaknesses, but the bad thing is that these are not good weaknesses to possess. Wingull is weak to rock, which makes him hard to bring in too often when your opponent has stealth rocks set up, and the prominence of chinchou in the tier makes Wingull's 4x weakness to electric a huge problem. Wingull's main positive is it's speed, with a beneficial nature and maximum EVs, it reaches 19 speed, on par with threats like Misdreavus and Murkrow, which is just one of the ways it outclasses Mantyke. Another plus for Wingull is it's versatile movepool with a great choice of STAB moves, scald most notably on the water side of things, hurricane and air slash on the other. Each of which has a great side effect which can really go to Wingull's advantage. The last main good point about Wingull is the fact that he resists some of the most problematic priority in the tier, such as mach punch, vacuum wave, bullet punch, which makes him ideal for switching into mons like Timburr or Meditite and taking them out. Onto the cons, Wingull is very frail, making it hard for it hard for it to take any neutral hits at all, which is disappointing given it's great defensive typing. He is also crippled by paralysis, due to the fact it relies on it's speed to avoid taking hits. It is also rather annoying that Wingull lacks a water STAB apart from scald, so it cannot hit as hard as it would like on the water side of it's movepool, however it does have the burn chance which can be great for Wingull if this comes off before Wingull can take a hit.

Life Orb
########
name:Life Orb
move 1: Scald
move 2: Hurricane
move 3: U-Turn
move 4: Air Slash / Knock Off
ability: Rain Dish
item: Life Orb
evs: 36 Def / 236 SpA / 236 Spe
IVs: 0HP
nature: timid / naive

moves
========
Scald is the STAB of choice, it has the chance to burn, and in turn cripple pesky physical attackers. Wingull doesn't mind that it can't use Hydro Pump because of the high burn chance of Scald. Hurricane is Wingull's most powerful flying type STAB move, at 110 power, but is unreliable at only 70 accuracy. It does however have the 30% confuse chance, which can compensate for it's bad accuracy. Hurricane is one way in which Wingull outclasses Mantyke as Mantyke has no access to such a powerful flying STAB. Air Slash works as another flying STAB on the same set, as it can be used when extra power is not needed for a more reliable chance of hitting, it also has the notorious flinch chance which can get Wingull out of a lot of sticky situations. Another option in this slot is Knock Off, due to it's buff this gen Wingull can still utilise it despite Wingull's pitiful Atk stat. It also works for knocking off opposition items for the rest of your team to take prey on further in the battle. U-turn is the final move on the set, as due to Wingull's exceptional base speed, it allows Wingull to pivot with ease.

Set details
========
Max speed and a beneficial nature are a must on Wingull, they bring him into the 19 speed tier, on par with threats such as Misdreavus and Murkrow. Max SpA is necessary too, as Wingull needs to hit as hard as possible to protect it's defensive frailties. 36 Def EVs adds a little extra, but probably not noticable, bulk to Wingull, and long with 0 HP IVs, helps to minimise Life Orb recoil. Speaking of Life Orb, it allows Wingull to hit extra hard, which turns it's typically sub-par Special Attack into a formidable one while outspeeding most of the tier. The nature choice depends on whether you decide to run Air Slash or Knock Off. As timid reduces Wingull's attack stat, it doesn't want to be running this in conjunction with Knock Off (it doesn't mind with U-Turn as hitting hard is not the objective of it). In this case, naive is the best nature to run as it reduces Defence, which Wingull has little usage for anyway due to it's poor bulk, but timid is best for a set with Air Slash.


Usage tips
========
It is imperative that you use Wingull with caution, he doesn't take neutral hits well, let alone super effective ones, and has a whole host of checks and counters in the tier. Hurricane can be unreliable, so if it makes no damage to KO turns, use Air Slash for reliability. Scald can be used regardless of the opposition most of the time, and should be used as often as possible to provide a greater chance of burning as much of the opposition team as possible. If in doubt, U-turn, Wingull's huge speed means he can outspeed almost anything in the tier so pivoting is one of its major strong points.

Team Options
========
Ground lures such as Honedge and Pawniard are good teammates for Wingull, as Wingull can switch in safely on ground type moves due to it's immunity to them. Wingull's rock weakness means he is weak to Stealth Rocks, so when they are in play Wingull cannot come in too often, as it takes 25% damage everytime. Therefore, Rapid Spin support is great to clear the rocks, allowing Wingull's safe entry into the battle. Drilbur is best for the job, as he can switch in from Wingull on Wingull's main 4x weakness, electric. Chinchou, while Wingull's main counter, can also be his best teammate. This is due to the fact it has volt absorb, so can switch easily in on electric moves, and more specifically, other Chinchous, which is great for protecting Wingull. It can also run Hidden Power Grass to surprise other Chinchous and Tirtougas, and switches in on Thunder Wave which would usually cripple Wingull too. Hazard setters are also good teammates as they help to get residual damage on the opposition pokemon, making them easier for Wingull to take down at a later date.

Other Options
########
Roost is an option for Wingull as it provides reliable recovery and dampens Wingull's electric weakness. It is also something Wingull has over Mantyke, which has to use Rest in order to recover. Rain Dance is another option as it provides a damage boost to Scald and an accuracy boost to Hurricane, it also slowly revitalises Wingull's health due to it's ability, Rain Dish. Choice Scarf is viable due to Wingull's intense speed and ability to pivot. Choice Specs is also viable, again due to Wingull's blistering speed, and it turns Wingull's formerly low Special Attack into a terrifying one. Hidden Power Ground can be used to take out less defensively solid, or low health electric types that Wingull outspeeds. Hidden power grass can also be used to finish off bulky waters and do a lot of damage to Tirtouga and Omanyte, but the lack of stab and low base power makes Hidden Power in general a very weak move for Wingull.


Checks & Counters
########
Electric types in general are threats to Wingull, but mainly Chinchou due to his versatility, it has the possibility of a scarf set and has excellent pivoting capabilities with volt switch, which is 4x effective on our bird friend. Not to mention it resists both of Wingull's STAB moves and can cripple Wingull with Thunder Wave. Bulky waters such as Slowpoke and Frillish wall Wingull, able to absorb Wingull's attacks at low damage and either burden Wingull's with status or take advantage of Wingull's lack of bulk. Bulky Eviolite users are scary for Wingull too, as it can hardly touch them while they set up boosting moves and/or status on Wingull, or simply knock him out straight away. Sturdy + Berry Juice users such as Dwebble are great for taking down Wingull, as it takes Wingull several turns to start doing any meaningful damage, in which time they can set up hazards or worse, KO Wingull. Lastly, Sucker Punch is a threat to Wingull, as he is advised to run all damaging moves, and Sucker Punch will more often than not KO Wingull straight off the bat.
 
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Lord Alphose

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Team Options - It looks like Wingull very much benefits from the rain. Put some rain-inducers up there.

Set Name - Your set is named Choice Specs, your set details say you are using Specs, but in the actually description it says that you're using a Life Orb.

IVs - If you are running a Life Orb, drop HP IVs down to 19, so to minimize recoil damage.
 
Team Options - It looks like Wingull very much benefits from the rain. Put some rain-inducers up there.

Set Name - Your set is named Choice Specs, your set details say you are using Specs, but in the actually description it says that you're using a Life Orb.

IVs - If you are running a Life Orb, drop HP IVs down to 19, so to minimize recoil damage.
My bad, it started as life orb and I forgot to change the descriptions. And I'll add rain inducers in.
 
"36 in HP gives wingull the best chance of surviving a volt switch as possible,"
This is pretty irrelevant, since Wingull is never going to survive a Volt Switch, Nosepass with 0 investment easily OHKOs, and that's about the weakest Volt Switch;

0 SpA Nosepass Volt Switch vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Wingull: 24-32 (114.2 - 152.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Chinchou Volt Switch vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Wingull: 40-52 (190.4 - 247.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-Just to give you an idea of little Wingull can handle.

I don't think Wingull should ever switch into something with an Electric move, or stay in on something with an Electric move, so I don't think it should be mentioned.
 

Lord Alphose

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Since BerryJuicers can, entirely by themselves, stop this set in it's tracks, I suggest putting setters in Team Options, as well as putting these SturdyJuicers in Checks and Counters.

0 Atk Dwebble Stone Edge vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Wingull: 32-38 (152.3 - 180.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
212+ Atk Tirtouga Stone Edge vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Wingull: 44-54 (209.5 - 257.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 

Rowan

The professor?
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first off, what you have is really great and detailed so props for that.

so why choice specs > life orb. being locked into something means wingull is just more prone to being forced out taking more passive damage. life orb and 19 speed means prediction is almost a non-issue. are there any notable power differences in particular that make Specs more worthwhile?

also, why is Ice Beam good? The only mon to resist water+flying is chinchou, who also resists Ice Beam. I suppose it's just a lack of other options, does it hit any 2hkos that hurricane doesn't? I wouldn't mind seeing air slash and hurricane just slashed there tbh.
 
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first off, what you have is really great and detailed so props for that.

so why choice specs > life orb. being locked into something means wingull is just more prone to being forced out taking more passive damage. life orb and 19 speed means prediction is almost a non-issue. are there any notable power differences in particular that make Specs more worthwhile?

also, why is Ice Beam good? The only mon to resist water+flying is chinchou, who also resists Ice Beam. I suppose it's just a lack of other options, does it hit any 2hkos that hurricane doesn't? I wouldn't mind seeing air slash and hurricane just slashed there tbh.
Thanks for the compliment, I worked real hard on this one:]

To clarify that last bit, do you mean remove Ice beam altogether, and if so, what to put in instead? And I'll run some calcs when I get back on my laptop for specs > LO and ice beam
 

Rowan

The professor?
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Thanks for the compliment, I worked real hard on this one:]

To clarify that last bit, do you mean remove Ice beam altogether, and if so, what to put in instead? And I'll run some calcs when I get back on my laptop for specs > LO and ice beam
to be honest, I don't actually have an opinion on Ice Beam yet as I haven't ran any calcs to see what it's good for. Though I wouldn't mind seeing air slash AND hurricane on the set if it turns out not to be worth it
 
to be honest, I don't actually have an opinion on Ice Beam yet as I haven't ran any calcs to see what it's good for. Though I wouldn't mind seeing air slash AND hurricane on the set if it turns out not to be worth it
Okay thanks for clearing that up.

Okay so calcs for ice beam ran, it definitely doesn't need mentioning in this analysis, hurricanes greater base power and stab compensates for any type advantages ice beam has, and in most cases both are 2HKO so there is no need for ice beam as well.

After running some calcs, in virtually all cases against the bulkiest mons in LC, it makes little to no difference in terms of damage whether you use LO or specs, so I will change this to LO to allow for predictions. I will also swap ice beam for air slash, and now that LO is being ran, should I slash air slash with roost?

Corkscrew, changes made, I just need an answer to that final question:)
 
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Rowan

The professor?
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Okay thanks for clearing that up.

Okay so calcs for ice beam ran, it definitely doesn't need mentioning in this analysis, hurricanes greater base power and stab compensates for any type advantages ice beam has, and in most cases both are 2HKO so there is no need for ice beam as well.

After running some calcs, in virtually all cases against the bulkiest mons in LC, it makes little to no difference in terms of damage whether you use LO or specs, so I will change this to LO to allow for predictions. I will also swap ice beam for air slash, and now that LO is being ran, should I slash air slash with roost?

Corkscrew, changes made, I just need an answer to that final question:)
no it shouldn't be roosting, it's far too frail and should just be spamming STABs or U-turn. anyway, this looks mostly good, but I've got uni work, so i'll get to QCing it tomorrow afternoon
 

Rowan

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Okay.

overview:
mention lack of access to a water stab more powerful than Scald, which is annoying.

set:
On the moveset make all your capitalization's correct. Life Orb not Life orb, Scald, not scald etc.
Move 36 HP to Def, due to LO recoil.

set details:
again def>hp.

usage tips:
mention if you don't need hurricane's power, use air slash instead.

Other options:
rain dance, first mention. it can be used to boost Scald and Hurricane which is pretty cool.
replace life orb mention with choice specs mention.
remove mention of physically biased set. instead, just mention knock off as sort of like a support move rather than an offensive move.

checks and counters:
Sucker punch should kill it. luckily it resists priority from fighting types, but still mention SPunch users.
when mentioning bulky eviolite mons, mention that they can pretty much flat out KO Wingull most of the time anyway.

As I said, earlier, this analysis is great and very detailed so not much to change :) QC 1/3
 
this looks good but i want to see knock off slashed somewhere in the set (not sure where, either over u-turn or air slash). it's sort of weak as wingull has low atk but it still does decent damage. wingull is also the fastest user of it iirc which is really cool. also if knock off is slashed on the set, a naive nature should be slashed as well.

want another opinion on this Corkscrew macle before the change is made and i qc approve
 
small nitpick, but a section header (where the overview is, at the beginnings of sets, other options, and checks and counters) should have "########" below the name. subsection headers (moves, set details, usage tips, team options) is what has the "========" below the name.
 

Expulso

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Amcheck in progress, about halfway done with overview.

Overview
########
SPACE HERE
Wingull is LC's friendly neighbourhood seagull, it's cute, awesome, and totally viable. The unique thing about Wingull is his very rare typing, wWater/fFlying, unique to itself and mMantyke. The good bit about positive aspect of the typing is that it has just two weaknesses, but the bad thing negative aspect is that these weaknesses to Rock and Electric attacks are not good weaknesses to possess. Wingull is weak to rRock, which makes him it hard to bring in too often when your opponent has sStealth rRocks set up, and the prominence of cChinchou in the tier makes Wingull's 4x weakness to eElectric attacks a huge problem. Wingull's main positive selling point is it's speed;, with a beneficial nature and maximum EVs, it reaches 19 speed, on par with threats like Misdreavus and Murkrow, which is just one of the ways it outclasses Mantyke. Another plus for Wingull is it's versatile movepool with a great choice selection of STAB moves, sScald most notably as a Water STAB attack on the water side of things, and hHurricane and aAir sSlash as Flying STAB attacks on the other,. Eeach of which has a great side effect which can really go to Wingull's advantage. The last main good point about Wingull is the fact that he resists some of the most problematic priority in the tier, such as mMach pPunch, vVacuum wWave, and bBullet pPunch, which makes him ideal for switching into mons Pokemon like Timburr or Meditite and taking them out. Onto the cons;, Wingull is very frail, making it hard for it hard for it to take any neutral hits at all, which is disappointing given it's great defensive typing. He It is also crippled by paralysis, due to the fact that it relies on it's speed to avoid taking hits. It is also rather annoying that Wingull lacks a wWater STAB attack apart from scald, so it cannot hit as hard as it would like on the water side of it's movepool, with its STAB Water-type attacks; however, it Scald does have the a 30% burn chance, which can be great for Wingull if this comes off before Wingull can take a hit.

Life Orb
########
name:spaceLife Orb
move 1: Scald
move 2: Hurricane
move 3: U-Turn
move 4: Air Slash / Knock Off
ability: Rain Dish
item: Life Orb
evs: 36 Def / 236 SpA / 236 Spe
IVs: 0spaceHP
nature: tTimid / nNaive

mMoves
========
SPACE HERE
Scald is the STAB of choice;, it has the a decent chance to burn, and in turn cripple pesky physical attackers. Wingull doesn't mind that it can't use Hydro Pump because of the high burn chance of Scald. Hurricane is Wingull's most powerful flying type STAB move, at 110 power, but is unreliable at only 70% accuracy. It does, however, have the 30% confusione chance, which can compensate for it's bad accuracy. Hurricane is one way in which Wingull outclasses Mantyke, as Mantyke has no access to such a powerful flying STAB. Air Slash works as another flying STAB on the same set, as it can be used when extra power is not needed for a more reliable chance of hitting;, it also has the a notorious flinch chance which can get Wingull out of a lot of sticky situations. Another option in this slot is Knock Off;, due to it's buff this gen Wingull can still utilise it well despite Wingull's pitiful Attack stat. It also works for knocksing off the opposition's items for the rest of your team to take prey on advantage of further in the battle. U-turn is the final move on the set, as due to Wingull's exceptional base speed, it allows Wingull to pivot with ease.

Set dDetails
========
SPACE HERE
Max speed and a beneficial nature are a must on Wingull, as they bring him into the 19 speed tier, on par with threats such as Misdreavus and Murkrow. Max Special Attack is necessary too, as Wingull needs to hit as hard as possible to protect conceal it's defensive frailties. 36 Defense EVs adds a little extra, but probably not noticable, bulk to Wingull, and along with 0 HP IVs, helps to minimise Life Orb recoil. Speaking of Life Orb, it allows Wingull to hit extra hard, which turns it's typically sub-par Special Attack into a formidable one while outspeeding most of the tier. The nature choice depends on whether you decide to run Air Slash or Knock Off. As tTimid reduces Wingull's attack stat, it doesn't want to be running this in conjunction with Knock Off (it doesn't mind with U-Turn as hitting hard is not the objective of it). In this case, nNaive is the best nature to run as it reduces Defence, which Wingull has little usage for anyway due to it's poor bulk, but tTimid is best for a set with Air Slash.


Usage tips
========
SPACE HERE
It is imperative that you use Wingull with caution, as he doesn't take neutral hits well, let alone super effective ones, and has a whole host of checks and counters in the tier. Hurricane can be unreliable, so if it's extra power is irrelevant, makes no damage to KO turns use Air Slash for reliability. Scald can be used regardless of the opposition most of the time, and should be used as often as possible to provide a greater chance of burning as much of the opposingtion team as possible. If When in doubt, U-turn out;, Wingull's huge speed means he can outspeed almost anything in the tier, so pivoting is one of its major sellingtrong points.

Team Options
========

Ground-type attack lures such as Honedge and Pawniard are good teammates for Wingull, as Wingull can switch in safely on ground type moves due to it's immunity to them. (Maybe mention something about being weak to common Rock coverage?) Wingull's rock weakness means he is weak to Stealth Rocks, so when they are in play Wingull cannot come in too often, as it takes 25% damage everytime. Therefore, Rapid Spin or Defog support is great to clear the rocks, allowing Wingull's safe entry into the battle. Drilbur is best for the job, as he can switch in from Wingull on Wingull's main 4x weakness, eElectric. Chinchou, while Wingull's main counter, can also be his best teammate. This is due to the fact that it has vVolt absorb, so can switch easily in on electric moves, and more specifically, other Chinchous, which is great for protecting Wingull. It can also run Hidden Power Grass to surprise other Chinchous and Tirtougas, and switches in on Thunder Wave which would usually cripple Wingull too. Hazard setters are also good teammates as they help to get residual damage on the opposition pokemon, making them easier for Wingull to take down at a later date.

Other Options
########
Roost is an option for Wingull as it provides reliable recovery and dampens Wingull's electric weakness. It is also something Wingull has over Mantyke, which has to use Rest in order to recover. Rain Dance is another option as it provides a damage boost to Scald and an accuracy boost to Hurricane, it also slowly revitalises Wingull's health due to it's ability, Rain Dish. Choice Scarf is viable due to Wingull's intense speed and ability to pivot. Choice Specs is also viable, again due to Wingull's blistering speed, and it turns Wingull's formerly low Special Attack into a terrifying one. Hidden Power Ground can be used to take out less defensively solid, or low health electric types that Wingull outspeeds. Hidden power grass can also be used to finish off bulky waters and do a lot of damage to Tirtouga and Omanyte, but the lack of stab and low base power makes Hidden Power in general a very weak move for Wingull.


Checks & Counters
########
Electric types in general are threats to Wingull, but mainly Chinchou due to his versatility, it has the possibility of a scarf set and has excellent pivoting capabilities with volt switch, which is 4x effective on our bird friend. Not to mention it resists both of Wingull's STAB moves and can cripple Wingull with Thunder Wave. Bulky waters such as Slowpoke and Frillish wall Wingull, able to absorb Wingull's attacks at low damage and either burden Wingull's with status or take advantage of Wingull's lack of bulk. Bulky Eviolite users are scary for Wingull too, as it can hardly touch them while they set up boosting moves and/or status on Wingull, or simply knock him out straight away. Sturdy + Berry Juice users such as Dwebble are great for taking down Wingull, as it takes Wingull several turns to start doing any meaningful damage, in which time they can set up hazards or worse, KO Wingull. Lastly, Sucker Punch is a threat to Wingull, as he is advised to run all damaging moves, and Sucker Punch will more often than not KO Wingull straight off the bat.
 
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