Unpredictability - A Mew Discussion Thread

bojangles

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Mew


Although Mew did get every single tutor move from HGSS, its changes were not monumental. However, I think that Mew is still an incredibly important Pokémon to discuss, because of its insane versatility. Now, this is being sorely underutilized. The first thing that you think when you read the word “Mew” is most likely:

1) Baton Pass!!!!!

Or maybe even

2) Lead

However, that’s really just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. First, we should take a gander at Mew’s base stats. Like the other “pixies”, Mew has the following stats: 100 HP / 100 Atk / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe. This gives good harmony to Mew’s excellent movepool, as, since it has even (and good!) stats, it can truly make use of just about any (competitive) move that it has. Its balance lends to the versatile playstyle that Mew can and should use efficiently. However, as I have stated above, the Mew that I see are almost always Baton Pass or Lead. Mew is losing the unpredictability that makes it so deadly (in September it was sitting at a piddling #19). Therefore the purpose of this thread is twofold: to raise Mew’s popularity and to bring attention to its sheer unpredictability.

Mew on the Defensive

Although Mew has base 100 / 100 / 100 defenses, it’s not going to want to be switching into many attacks. Unlike Celebi in the OU tier, Mew cannot really stand up to the attacks in Ubers. The Pokémon who use these attacks are much, much stronger than those of OU. Although, if Mew can get Dual Screen support, then it can actually take a hit quite well (what can’t?), and that’s very important for supporting roles.

Mew is a Psychic-type, which hurts much more than it helps it. Psychic-type is one of the most common types in Ubers (its up there with Dragon-type), so many Pokémon pack Ghost- or Dark-type moves for coverage purposes. This means that Mew is going to be potentially taking a lot of super effective hits; the ones that aren’t will be either boosted or STAB, and sometimes both. Also, Psychic-type only resists Fighting-type moves, which are only used by a select few Pokémon (Darkrai, Scizor, Lucario, some Giratina-O, and Mewtwo). These Pokémon either carry a move that is super effective on Mew (in the case of Scizor, Lucario, Darkrai, and Giratina-O), and/or they will be boosting their stats (Mewtwo, Darkrai, Lucario, Giratina-O, and Swords Dance versions of Scizor). Basically, Mew isn’t somebody you want to be a big defender.

Mew on the Offensive

Yet again we see Mew’s 100s here with 100 base Attack and 100 base Special Attack (perks of being a pixie!). We can also see that Mew has Nasty Plot, Calm Mind, Swords Dance, Bulk Up, and Rock Polish, in addition to a plethora of offensive moves. It’s got to be a good attacker right? Well, sort of. By this I mean the following: Mew has the potential to be a good offensive presence, but you must be sure to make sure that its not outclassed.

When making a Mew set that “takes matters into its own hands” and goes on the offensive, don’t try and imitate a sweeper who already exists! For example, don’t try to give Mew Calm Mind and try and outdo Mewtwo, who is basically the King of Calm Mind. In the same vein, don’t try to give Mew Bulk Up and expect it to rival Dialga. With the heavily offensive nature of Ubers, Mew may have problems trying to find its offensive niche. This, however, does not mean that it does not exist. Perhaps it’s a mixed Rock Polish set. Maybe it’s a dual-boosting specially-based sweeper. Mew’s offensive prowess still hasn’t truly been tapped to its whole potential.

Mew in the Supportive Role

Well, if Mew is sub par at being a wall/tank, and only average at offense, what is it good for? The answer is simple: support. Mew’s support movepool is truly unmatched. The only Pokémon who can rival it is Smeargle, who doesn’t have to bulk to be used to its full extent. In its arsenal, it has every status move under the sun (except Spore) and Heal Bell, as well as stat-boosting moves that can be used in conjunction with Baton Pass. By using its status moves, it can help cripple opposing Pokémon who stop your own Pokémon from sweeping. Consider this: the main check for Swords Dance Rayquaza is Choice Scarf Dialga (Gengar isn’t used as often), because it is resistant to ExtremeSpeed and outspeeds Rayquaza’s other moves. Now, if Dialga was paralyzed, things would be much different. Rayquaza would then outrun Dialga, and could take it out with a +2 Dragon Claw. Rayquaza then, with the help of entry hazards (go Forretress!), can sweep your opponent’s team, since many people only pack one Rayquaza check. There are many other ways for status Mew to help out; this was just one example.

Mew can also be a lead and throw down the Stealth Rock that sometimes make sweeps like the above Rayquaza one possible. With the combination of U-turn, Explosion, and Taunt, Mew can deal with many leads by either killing, scouting, or Taunting them. Some leads whom Mew counters are Deoxys, Forretress, and Darkrai.

Of course, one of the biggest ways for Mew to support its teammates is via Baton Passing. It has access to not only each of the moves that give +2, but also Bulk Up and Calm Mind. This makes it the best Baton Passer in the entire game. Gliscor? Not even close. Zapdos? It wishes. Vaporeon? Who’s that? Mew’s Baton Passing ability is totally and utterly unmatched, and with the proper support, it can win games easily.

The Sets

Here I’ll list some of the popular Mew sets, as well as possible ideas for new ones.

Baton Pass
Mew @ Lum Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 190 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm (+Special Defense, -Attack)
- Baton Pass
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance / Nasty Plot
- Taunt

Truly one of the best sets that Mew can run. Mew’s ability to pass any boost that it wants should not be overlooked. This can easily be the turning point in any game; the point when your sweeper is so powerful that it can (and will) demolish your opponent’s whole team. If everything is right, the set is actually quite simple to use. First, you should Rock Polish. This allows Mew to outspeed many of the Pokémon who will try to come in to counter it or Taunt it. Mew can then Taunt them first. Your Lum Berry can also be used to avoid status. After dealing with the new Pokémon whom your opponent has sent in via Taunt (if necessary), use either Nasty Plot or Swords Dance (depending on whether you’re Passing to either a physical sweeper or special sweeper.

The EVs allow you to outspeed even a +Speed Deoxys-E after a Rock Polish, and, by extention, most of the metagame (as long as they don’t have Choice Scarfs). The rest of the EVs and the nature are to give you as much bulk as possible on the special side (which is the most common type of attack).

Useful teammates:
Dual Screeners – Helps Mew take attacks while setting up boosts and Baton Passing
- Latias, Latios, Mewtwo, Bronzong, Uxie

Special Receivers – Recipients for Nasty Plot + Rock Polish, who will then sweep with excellent coverage (bold = best choice) and bulkiness
- Dialga, Palkia, Mewtwo

Physical Receivers – Recipients for Swords Dance + Rock Polish, who will then sweep with excellent coverage (bold = best choice) and bulkiness
- Groudon, Rayquaza, Garchomp

Entry Hazard Setter – Mew needs entry hazards just to guarantee KOs for the recipient, since you really only have one shot. Generally, this will be the lead, simply because of team size restrictions
- Deoxys-E, Forretress, Groudon

Cleaner – It’s always a good idea to use a “cleaning” sweeper, just in case your main sweeper fails to sweep your opponent’s full team. It should be able to deal significant damage.
- Rayquaza, Mewtwo, Garchomp

Lead
Mew @ Lum Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- U-turn

Mew can also be a very good lead, who can deal with many of the metagame’s common leads. Against Deoxys, it can U-turn out, leaving Deoxys with 1 HP, while you switch in a new Pokémon to finish it off. Mew can also Taunt first, so that Deoxys cannot lay any more entry hazards (watch out for Deoxys’s Taunt though). Against Forretress, Mew can first Taunt, so Forretress cannot put any entry hazards down, and then U-turn out to a sweeper. Against Darkrai, it can use Lum Berry to prevent sleep, and then U-turn it for heavy damage, and switch in a better counter. Against other leads, Mew can set up Stealth Rock and then Explode, giving you an early advantage by taking out one of you opponent’s Pokémon. Mew can also come back later in the game and Explode against another Pokémon who may have set up (for example, Boosting Tank Kyogre, who is OHKOed).

The EVs guarantee OHKOs against bulky Kyogre variants and Lugia (after it has taken Stealth Rock damage). Many other Pokémon who have not invested highly in Defense or who have a resistance to Explosion will be taking heavy damage. The rest of the EVs are to ensure that Mew is bulky.

Useful Teammates:
Offensive Sweepers – Any sweeper benefits from the residual damage of entry hazards. Many sweepers often rely on Stealth Rock damage to secure KOs.

Double Status
Mew @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 36 SpD / 220 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Thunder Wave / Hypnosis
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
- U-turn
- Softboiled

Mew can use its OK bulk to spread status about your opponent’s team. Due to the highly offensive nature of the Ubers metagame, Thunder Wave can truly make or break certain strategies. For example, as stated before, by paralyzing a Choice Scarf Dialga, you can open up a Swords Dance Rayquaza sweep. Likewise, by paralyzing a Choice Scarf Palkia, you can open up a Dragon Dance Rayquaza sweep. Hypnosis has pros and cons. On one hand, it completely incapacitates a Pokémon. On the other hand, it can only be used on one Pokémon, and its accuracy is risky; therefore, Thunder Wave is generally a better choice. Will-O-Wisp not only provides for a steady residual damage, but it also cuts your opponent’s Attack, stopping sweeps and potentially stopping counters (Scizor can no longer counter Mewtwo properly if its Attack stat is cut). Toxic can help wear down walls, making it easier for sweepers to break through them. For example, by poisoning Lugia, you can severely hamper its walling ability, which gives Garchomp and Groudon easier times at sweeping.

U-turn allows for Mew to help switch in Pokémon without them taking damage. It also serves as a move to use if Mew gets Taunted. Softboiled keeps Mew healthy so that it can come back and keep inflicting status on Pokémon. The EVs allow you to outspeed neutral natured Lati@s and Lugia, and max speed Rayquaza, while still being bulky.

Useful Teammates:
Pokémon who appreciate checks being paralyzed – Certain checks require Speed to do their jobs. Without these checks, the Pokémon who is normally checked can just blaze through teams.
- Rayquaza, Rock Polish Groudon

Pokémon who appreciate counters/checks being poisoned/burned – by poisoning or burning certain Pokémon, other Pokémon can take advantage of the fact that the counter is taking extra damage per turn, which jeopardizes the counter’s ability to do its job
- Garchomp, Groudon, Mewtwo

Transform
Mew @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Transform
- Trick / Hypnosis
- Light Screen / Reflect
- Explode

This set seems gimmicky but it can actually really work. It derives its effectiveness partially from surprise. You can essentially use your opponent’s own Pokémon against them. The set itself is fairly simple to use. First, come in a Trick your Choice Scarf onto your opponent’s Pokémon, then Transform into the Pokémon. Reflect / Light Screen are mainly filler, and can be used as a way to help your teammates if you are forced to switch out and cannot Transform again. Finally, Explosion is a “last-ditch” attempt to take another Pokémon with you. Make sure, however, to scout your opponent’s team first to see which Pokémon it would be best to Transform into. For example, if you and your opponent both have Dragon Dance Rayquaza, you can essentially have 2 Dragon Dance Rayquaza sweeps, which many teams simply cannot handle.

The EVs are extremely simple. Max Speed allows Mew to outspeed as much as possible, so it can Transform quickly. Max HP is useful because HP is the only stat of Mew’s that Transform does not replace.

Useful Teammates:
- Wobbuffet – One of your opponent’s Pokémon will inevitably end up with a Choice Scarf; Wobbuffet can come in and easily revenge kill them
Note: It’s nearly impossible to provide perfect teammates for this set, because its literally a different Pokémon each battle.

Other Mew Sets

There are, of course, many other Mew sets that are possible. Some of these include

Block Passer – Mew can use Block to trap your opponent and then Baton Pass to another of your Pokémon, sort of like a second Wobbuffet. This is also useful with Hypnosis, as it gives a Pokémon free set-up turns.

Super Fang – Super Fang is an interesting move that automatically halves your opponent’s HP, regardless of Mew’s or your opponent’s EVs or IVs. This could perhaps be used on a stallish set?


That’s a Wrap!

Yeah, so there’s obviously a lot of stuff in this post. Discuss your uses for Mew and how successful it is or isn’t in the current DPP/HGSS metagame. Also, post your Mew sets that perform well. If you haven't tested a set, but still wish to post it, go right ahead, but be sure to mention that it hasn't been tested yet. Thanks, and happy discussing!
 
Useful Teammates:
Pokémon who appreciate checks being paralyzed – Certain checks require Speed to do their jobs. Without these checks, the Pokémon who is normally checked can just blaze through teams.
- Rayquaza, Rock Polish Groudon
Nitpick: RPDon is often checked by Giratina-A and Sleep Talk Kyogre, both of whom aren't really bothered by the speed loss. Other than that, excellent work. I'm interested in the possibility of passing Amnesia (perhaps along with RP) to something like that can proceed to wall much of the metagame, block revenge killers, and take a more defensive setup approach. One can argue that such an approach would be redundant with the presence of screens, but screens only last for a certain duration of time, and really befit more offensive setups.
 
using this:
Baton Pass
Mew @ Lum Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 190 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm (+Special Defense, -Attack)
- Baton Pass
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance / Nasty Plot
- Taunt
Works well as a lead,
taunt shuts down Darkrai,
Stops Groudon from Thunder waving, ect.
you follow to Rock Polish, if you have over 50% left,
Swords Dance/Nasty Plot, then Baton Pass.
It's works extremely well.

On Mew in General,
It is a very unpredictable Pokemon,
and a spectacular Baton Passer (it's best role in my opinion.).
 

Theorymon

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The following is a PM convo me and maddog had in February about Amnesia Mew, so I feel that this needs to be looked into.

maddog said:
Theorymon said:
I'm very interested in how you mention Mew as being such a good baton passer because of Amnesia, as most of the BP Mews I have fought use Rock Polish and an offensive stat-up. I apologize in advance if you don't want to reveal this, but I'm very curious about Amnesia passing Mew's potential and would like to know more about it.
Sure, that's not even an issue dude. The main reason I use Mew for Amnesia is because I use a full BP chain, rather than a smaller one, in ubers.

On my team (which is Ninjask/ Mew/ Girtaina-o/ Celebi/ Scizor/ Vaporeon) I use this Mew.

Mew @ Lum Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP/242 Def/16 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Hypnosis
- Amnesia
- Baton Pass
- Substitute

I consider passing Amnesia to be something that is extremely important, and I have even used Gorebyss in OU to be able to pass it. In ubers, I can use Mew, which makes my job very easy. So easy, in fact, my Mew can wall Darkari more often than not. I will probably adjust the EV spread in order to be sure I beat TimidScarf Darkari after +3 speed, so I can put up a Substitute to avoid being Tricked. On this team, Hypnosis is my best way to avoid Lugia for a few turns, and I can use either Ninjask to kill it, or if I already have +3 speed and +2 attack, I can just pass (and win). I can stall Kyorge out of Water Spouts too, but normally Vaporeon does a good job of that already!

If you want some other information about my team, or what not, don't be afraid to ask! I don't mind spreading the wealth.
 
I'm surprised Baton Pass Mew isn't used more often; it's so sturdy with Screens up and it laughs in the face of Phazers as it Taunts and sets up more SDs/NPs/RPs.


252 HP / 108 Def / 82 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm (+SpD, -Atk)
-Taunt
-Swords Dance / Nasty Plot
-Rock Polish
-Baton Pass

This spread allows you to survive a max attack Adamant Choice Band Tyranitar's STAB super-effective Crunch 100 % of the time if SR is off the field (not difficult to accomplish since forry is a great spinner in ubers).
 

bojangles

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I'd just like to say that there's going to be a Mew Update Part 2 occurring soon for the site. The one on site now got on so that there was a more detailed analysis (the prior one was pretty slim on content). Therefore, I'd like to try and use this thread a bit more to discuss the possible sets to test. Currently, I'm thinking of a mixed Rock Polish cleaner set to test. I'm still tweaking the EVs and running calculations, but it's looking like this is most likely going to be more viable after your opponent has been weakened sufficiently.

Anyway, please, I'm bringing this back to discuss more possible uses for Mew in the metagame. Feel free to discuss these current sets too however.
 

firecape

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another move mew can learn which i think can be pretty fun is fake out + u-turn it obviously isn't going to make huge dents, but you can see how the opponent reacts to mew (switching ect) and fake out is an annoying priority. Obviously don't bring this into a faster pokemon, but jolly mew can outspeed a fair number of unscarfed pokemon in the uber metagame and be quite a nuisance.
 
just a question for those who are great at calculating:
would you be better off using toxic then super fang or super fang then toxic.
what if you opponent has a life orb?
 
At 100%, no life orb
Toxic -> Super Fang
100%
93.75% (6.25 from toxic)
34.37% (46.87 from super fang, 12 from toxic)

Super Fang -> Toxic
100%
50% (50 from super fang)
43.75% (6.25 from toxic)

Use toxic first, it gets stronger as it goes on so give it more turns to do damage.

I'm actually surprised Mew has fake out but in Ubers with only 100 attack and no STAB or technician it seems too weak for revenging, though priority is nice and only Girantia (O) is immune. Either way I'd stick to scarfing a Jolly mew for U-Turn to revenge kill, its fast enough to not need priority, hits many Ubers SE and is useful for scouting.
 
both scarfdarkrai and deoxys-s are able to outspeed (even after mew hits +2 speed) and more or less render bp mew useless so maybe you guys can consider an alternate faster less bulky ev spread?
 
both scarfdarkrai and deoxys-s are able to outspeed (even after mew hits +2 speed) and more or less render bp mew useless so maybe you guys can consider an alternate faster less bulky ev spread?
The standard Baton Pass Mew with 68 Spe EVs already outspeeds Deoxys-S after a Rock Polish, and there's a faster spread mentioned in the on-site analysis, so I don't really see where you're going with this.

To add something to this discussion, I'd like to point out that a good UBER Baton Pass team is very very tough to stop if you don't have a preset strategy to beat it. For example, a team I used in Week 2 of the Tour had MixRay with Brick Break and a SpecsOgre to OHKO Mew after screens are down. Since Baton Pass is a rare strategy (I can count the number of legit BP teams I've faced on the ladder on one hand), most people don't consider it a threat, which is what makes it so lethal when executed well. On the one hand, I would like to see Mew get more usage because it is my favorite Pokémon, but on the other hand, I don't want to see either the Baton Passer or the Lead get more usage because they are both a pain to face!

@Private Piplup: IMO you're better off sticking with just Mew and building the rest of your team around helping it get a Speed and Attack/Special Attack pass off because boosting Defense/Special Defense is usually not worth it as you said.
 
I've tried Rock Polish+ Amnesia passing on an Ubers Baton pass team, but I couldn't get past 1600 on the ladder (usually I'm ~1650). It works, but only once unless you trade Taunt for Softboiled, but it's usually not worth it. Since I was passing to a Scizor for Iron defense, I was still outsped by Scarfers and ko'd by Fire Blast before I could Pass to say, a Vaporeon. I think the idea of Amnesia/Iron Defense has some merit to it though, on a Baton Pass team or to help a tank/bulky sweeper set up. (+2 Spe, +2 Def Ho-oh anyone?)
 
Mew can take the task of both a mono-attacker and a Baton Passer with a simple Nasty Plot set, which I belive can give Mew some versability as an attacker, considering Nasty Plot is what Mewtwo lacks, and thus cannot outclass a Nasty Plot set...

@Salac Berry
252SpA/6SpD/252Spe
Timid nature
~Nasty Plot
~Hypnosis
~Ice Beam/Dark Pulse
~Baton Pass

Nasty Plot up, and when weak, either attack of Baton Pass with +1 not only to be passed, but also to prevent much from outrunning to and destroying Mew before using Baton Pass; Mew's Synchronize trait would also make most Pokemon think twice before selecting Thunder Wave, making the speed boost even safer!
 
Now I'm not an uber player, so I don't know what a common response to a Mew switchin is, because it seems like a SubTransform set would be pretty neat.
 
If I burn myself with a burn orb, will my syncronize ability pass the burn to the opponent?

I can think of a lot of fun things I can do with Mew if I can burn like that.

Edit: I don't think I can, but I just came up with a ton of fun psycho shift ideas.

Edit2:
Spite
252HP/124SpD/120Def
Nature: Careful
Item: Leftovers

- Spite
- protect
- substitute
- taunt/softboiled

Giratina is probably better at it.

Rediculous Power
252Spe/252Att/4SpA
Nature: Lonely
Item: Life Orb/Choice Band/Choice scarf

- Overheat/Sucker Punch/U-turn
- Outrage
- Superpower/Vacuum Wave/Sucker Punch
- Explosion
 
Maybe something with Pain Split for a Stall Team. Mew is certainly Bulky enough to live through a lot of things, and it would speed up the Process of Toxic Stall quite a bit. I can't be bothered to do the Evs, but the moveset would probably consist of something like this.

Mew @ Leftovers
Bold
Insert Nice EV Spread, probably the Lead one
- Pain Split
- Recover
- Roar/ Light Screen
- Toxic/Taunt/Light Screen

Not a lot of things can OHKO mew on the Physical Side with a Physically defensive Spread, barring Boosted outrages. Run enough speed so you can taunt Rayquaza if you have it, so it can't set up on you. I don't know of anything else thats common and boosts itself Physically, except Maybe Garchomp, but it has a hard enough time getting past Skarm and even Forry, and most are Scarfed anyway. Roar can go on there for Phazing. I.e. you eat a Draco Meteor, and Pain Split/Recover off the damage, Roar out on the next DM or Outrage. Light Screen is mainly to Handle Kyogre's Surfs, but a good Stall team usually has Groudon and a dedicated Kyogre Counter, heck even Wobb could remove it. Alternatively, after spending 5 minutes typing this up, I just realised Pain Split might be a bit gimmicky, so a Stall set with without it and any of the other Support moves could work. Also, Mewtwo doesn't get Roar, so it can't perform the same job, but slightly better, since IMO, 100/100/100 defences are close enough to 106/90/90
 
In the DPPT/HGSS metagame, what can one do with a modest flawless 31 iv Mew? I obviously just accquired Mattj's Mew and came across this thread haha.
 

Zephyr

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In the DPPT/HGSS metagame, what can one do with a modest flawless 31 iv Mew? I obviously just accquired Mattj's Mew and came across this thread haha.
You might as well save it because we're moving onto another Gen anyways.
 

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