Chandelure shouldn't have lost Shadow Tag in Gen 6
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
Deleted User 400951
Banned deucer.
If that thing got Shadow Tag released, my god would it be downright broken. Look at how well Gothitelle is doing in Ubers rn (I'm not saying to S like orch ppl don't lynch me please) and then just put in a mon that's objectively a million times better and... bye bye balanced Ubers meta (or stag, they'd ban it if chandelure got it tbh).
That being said, flavor-wise it shouldn't have. Infiltrator doesn't make as much sense as Shadow Tag does.
I
I remember playing in Pokemon Online with a Choice Scarf Shadow Tag Chandelure. My God it is broken. That's why I'm ranting about it ;)
Scarf Chandelure with Shadow Tag would have been Dugtrio on steroids, with only Dugtrio's Tectonic Rage being able to outpower Chandelure's Fire Blast, as an example. It was a good thing it's not become available since Gen VI (it forced everyone to run a Pursuit trapper in Dream World Gen V, and even they could be defeated).
Now, I find it odd that it lost Shadow Tag. As far as I know (I barely have any idea about the meta), trapping is nowhere near as useful in Doubles (Game Freak's focus) as it is in Singles. Why remove it, then? Or did they find Infiltrator to be better?
Because Game Freak, that's why. I guess ScarfTag Chandelure lives only in my dreams and Gen 5 games now...
"But Gen I's code was a complete mess! More than one official source has referred to it as the digital version of being held together by bubblegum and duct tape. You can easily exploit and/or break the game by doing things the makers didn't intend you to do, some of the mechanics aren't working properly, and there are points where the AI both cheats and is rock dumb stupid. It's a miracle the game even works as well as it does if you play it as intended, let alone a major franchise spawn from it."
"EXACTLY!"
Gen1 hate always perplexes me. While holding it up as the best game in the series despite all the improvements across the generations doesn't make too much sense, a lot of the accusations against it always strike me as picking on your grandfather because he's old. If modern games aren't beating their predecessors, then doesn't that say more about modern games than old ones?
And yes, at the time of it's release Red and Blue were technological marvels and having that much game on a handheld system in mid-90's really was quite the accomplishment. Heck, the amount of programming that must have went into the trading function alone astounds me, as such a simple concept must have taken ages to code.
But beyond developmental landmarks that were amazing for their time, some aspects of Gen1 I feel still hold to this day. It's about the only pokemon game with some non-linearity, you could complete the whole middle section of the game in about whatever order you wanted and still the exp curve would give you enough to keep going. The Rocket storyline was sequential for sure, but to some degree you could tackle the story segments when you were ready for them (so you could do the Game Corner, Pokemon Tower, and Silph Co. all at once before getting more than two badges if you really wanted to, or put parts of it off longer).
Now a lot of people point fingers at Johto's small non-linearity as the reason it has exp issues, but that really isn't the case. Johto has exp issues because some routes are super short and devoid of many trainers, mostly stemming from cramming all of Kanto onto the same game pack. It's space limitations that made Johto hard to level up in, not the non-linearity in the middle.
I get that linearity vs. non-linearity is a bit of a hot topic right now, but I feel a lot of people put it in this binary, like it's either Breath of the Wild or Final Fantasy XIII: wide open sandbox or hallway simulator. But there is a middle road, like having limited choices like Kanto and Johto: you have two or three paths to choose just to add some spice and customization to your play style, even if it isn't "wide open." And I miss that.
And yes, at the time of it's release Red and Blue were technological marvels and having that much game on a handheld system in mid-90's really was quite the accomplishment. Heck, the amount of programming that must have went into the trading function alone astounds me, as such a simple concept must have taken ages to code.
But beyond developmental landmarks that were amazing for their time, some aspects of Gen1 I feel still hold to this day. It's about the only pokemon game with some non-linearity, you could complete the whole middle section of the game in about whatever order you wanted and still the exp curve would give you enough to keep going. The Rocket storyline was sequential for sure, but to some degree you could tackle the story segments when you were ready for them (so you could do the Game Corner, Pokemon Tower, and Silph Co. all at once before getting more than two badges if you really wanted to, or put parts of it off longer).
Now a lot of people point fingers at Johto's small non-linearity as the reason it has exp issues, but that really isn't the case. Johto has exp issues because some routes are super short and devoid of many trainers, mostly stemming from cramming all of Kanto onto the same game pack. It's space limitations that made Johto hard to level up in, not the non-linearity in the middle.
I get that linearity vs. non-linearity is a bit of a hot topic right now, but I feel a lot of people put it in this binary, like it's either Breath of the Wild or Final Fantasy XIII: wide open sandbox or hallway simulator. But there is a middle road, like having limited choices like Kanto and Johto: you have two or three paths to choose just to add some spice and customization to your play style, even if it isn't "wide open." And I miss that.
Gen 1 is amazing because it doesn't catch fire immediately after your first save.
Gen2 had some amazing compression work that allowed post game, barebones but still postgame. Fuck the Ecruteak fork though it brought down the game.
Gen 3 brought stability to the mess and even cracked a joke at Gen 1 programing by making an Easter egg about it being a senseless pattern filled with bugs.
Seriously the whole pattern bush thing was an affectionate joke at the gen1 hardware and software.
Wouldn't call it impressive but it's pretty solid given the huge amount of information it has to hold and the rather sloppy development process (if the Missingnos. between the 151 legit Pokémon are any indication).
The one that is impressive is Gen 2, how it manages to have much more things while using... the same hardware - heck, the same data structures!
You can thank the late Iwata for that, RIP.
I actually hate the Thunder Wave change in Gen 7. They changed nothing about the part that people complained about back in Gen 6 (you know the "cant move" part), but instead decreased its accruacy for some reason. This makes hax with Twave even more possible instead of focusing the task of Twave back to mostly speed control(?)! They just should have just decreased the geting paralysed change and kept in at 100% accruacy. They fucked up on Dark Void in a similar way too. They just had to hardcode it only for Darkrai similar to Hoopas moves to prevent Smeargle bs instead of fucking over Darkrai completely and increasing the hax chance even more.
I wonder if they had casual players in mind with that. Darkrai was just a really annoying Pokemon to encounter in casual play — far more so than any other mythical, even Arceus — and they’d just done an event for it. I’d have preferred 60% accuracy to 50% so it’s not a downgrade from Hypnosis, but I can totally understand the sentiment that Darkrai is too good. Even with a huge nerf from Smogon’s rules (i.e. removing the ability to just sleep lock your opponent’s entire team), it was still consistently a top tier uber.
My unpopular opinion: I never really cared for the following mechanic in HGSS. I didn’t dislike it, but it was a very mild addition immersion-wise and added nothing to gameplay for me. Most of the time I just ignored it, and from the perspective of playing with your Pokemon (something I feel should be interactive), I had a lot more fun with Amie. I’ve never understood how that feature single-handedly made HGSS the most popular and expensive Pokemon games.
Don’t get me wrong, HGSS are still among my favourite games in the series, and probably my favourites up to that point. (Nowadays I prefer ORAS.) But the following Pokemon mechanic doesn’t really contribute to that, and it’s interesting to me how it’s always the first cited reason for liking those games instead of all the things I like about them (two regions/16 gyms to explore, the postgame legendary hunt, a superboss that I could use legendaries against and not feel like I was cheesing it).
My unpopular opinion: I never really cared for the following mechanic in HGSS. I didn’t dislike it, but it was a very mild addition immersion-wise and added nothing to gameplay for me. Most of the time I just ignored it, and from the perspective of playing with your Pokemon (something I feel should be interactive), I had a lot more fun with Amie. I’ve never understood how that feature single-handedly made HGSS the most popular and expensive Pokemon games.
Don’t get me wrong, HGSS are still among my favourite games in the series, and probably my favourites up to that point. (Nowadays I prefer ORAS.) But the following Pokemon mechanic doesn’t really contribute to that, and it’s interesting to me how it’s always the first cited reason for liking those games instead of all the things I like about them (two regions/16 gyms to explore, the postgame legendary hunt, a superboss that I could use legendaries against and not feel like I was cheesing it).
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But Darkrai was only good in Free Battles on Battle Spot, since it sucked in Doubles. So the big difference that made Smeargle so good with it, the ability to put 2 mons to sleep with 1 move, was basicly lost in Singles and it was just a slightly better Sleep Powder. I just dont think that Game Freak gave any fucks about Free Battles on Battle Spot (or Singles in general really) and they were just lazy with nerfing Smeargle. It just bothers me that they made its signature move a worse move then Hypnosis and Sleep Powder, moves that a shitload of mons get.
I would strongly disagree with your assessment that Darkrai "sucked in Doubles" with access to 80% Dark Void. It sucks in Smogon Doubles, sure, but that's because Dark Void is banned in that format (even after the nerf). With 80% accurate Dark Void and no sleep clause, Darkrai is more broken in doubles than Mega Rayquaza in singles.
Even in singles, making Sleep Powder miss half as often is a pretty big upgrade, especially taking Darkrai's ability into consideration.
Nidoking is often brought up when talking about one of the best generation one designs. I have to agree, when compared to Dewgong or Butterfree or Seaking, it definitely is a lot more its own thing. Nidoking looks like this cool, freestyled design that we didn't really get much of in generation one. In generation one, the designs were more simple and usually involved turning a concept into a cartoon. Some cool things like Rhydon's design come out of that, and Nidoking seemed like it too.
Then I see the kaiju, Baragon, and see that Nidoking is just a complete ripoff of that. He's just a cartoon version of a movie monster. It sucked away all the amazement I felt with Nidoking, realizing how much less creative it was than I had always given it credit for.
Generation one's designs didn't do enough thinking outside the box for my tastes. That's not the uncommon opinion, though. The uncommon opinion is that Nidoking's design is lacking in creativity.
Then I see the kaiju, Baragon, and see that Nidoking is just a complete ripoff of that. He's just a cartoon version of a movie monster. It sucked away all the amazement I felt with Nidoking, realizing how much less creative it was than I had always given it credit for.
Generation one's designs didn't do enough thinking outside the box for my tastes. That's not the uncommon opinion, though. The uncommon opinion is that Nidoking's design is lacking in creativity.
The reason they have to nerf Twave (as well as things like Dark Void and Swagger) is because of goddamned Klefki totally no sells others otherwise.
Regardless how much you change the chance of being immobilised people will still rant how the game is being fucked up by an immobilisation that came from the left field just like getting hit by sheer cold twice or even thrice. This is more like an RNG intended to fuck you up instead of really a flaw, plus the fact that when you got paralysed you are pretty much helpless and gonna get pinned down for long, so they probably intended to water down how harmful status conditions can be as a whole.
Klefki was my no means broken or something. It just was that twave was so riskfree to use and the chance to not move is high enough. If the immobilistation part gets lowered to say 10% instead of 25% then things like Klefki become not nearly as much of a problem(not that it ever was, just annoying). Twave would then be mostly used for its MAIN ROLE which in speed control. Now they made it so that you get even punished when you wanted to use it as such in 10% of chases. Why would that be a good solution? They very clearly didnt water down the hax, they just moved a part of it from the side of the paralysed mon to the side of the twave user.
They do water down statuses, burn still is 1/2 attack but deal 1/16, half of the original value. Now you mentioned about it they might be actually trying to make it more in line with burn I guess…？
By no selling I'm not saying a complete lockdown, but it can basically Twave mindlessly on things that doesn't have immunity to that, and then either set things up or even throw Swagger which is simply stupid and annoying to play against. That speed reduction is more than just crippling against most setups even with a much lower fuckup rate. Maybe just another answer like Talonflame and Parental bond but they turn it up to 11.
We were only speaking about Twave I thought? I also dont get your logic. If you get a SwagKeys opponent you just need to choose a pokemon to get paralysed simular to Sleep. In a ideal world you dont accually have a team of 6 sweepers and have at least 1 wall/pivot/whatever to take status. The problem simple is that the chance to lose with say Slowbro for example is still too high in my book. If you hate Klefki that much I dont get why you opose my proposal so much. It would basicly preserve the speed control factor and nerf hax strategies.
What? When?
Pattern bush as the joke in FRLG, SID+ID and IV vs ID and DIV system based on the 251 system of Gen2.
Oh, wow, I didn't notice all the Pokemon in Pattern Bush were Bug-type! Lol!
It's an erratic pattern filled with bugs.
It's a beautiful homage to gen1 games.
Let's salute to some unpopular pokemon designs:
Dewgong, often called the most boring design in the game, which I don't entirely agree with. Despite being based on a manatee, Dewgong definitely has more seal and walrus in there with it's tusks, horn, and body shape. But at the same time there's this fish like ripple in the fins that give it a lace like quality.
You can see what I'm getting at best in the Gen3 sprites, that tissue ripple on the fins.
Unfortunately, Dewgong is another mon that didn't benefit from the switch to models as now you can barely tell there's a texture on the fins.
Really what's holding it back is that bleak color pattern, the body is fine it just really deserves some more hues stat! If they made the fins translucent like a bridal veil, or just colored them slightly with blue, pink, or even yellow I think it would go a long way.
Bergmite. Aw, this little cutie looks like a Metroid enemy (look up "zoomer") and that's adorable. Personally I don't think many actually hate Bergmite or his evolution, other than the combat performance curse the majority of ice types suffer.
Mr. Mime. This is maybe more personal bias, but I've never had a problem with clowns and find the "scary clown" stereotype to be overplayed and boring by now (but thanks to IT 2017, we're not going to be rid of that anytime soon). While admittedly Mr. Mime will never be as appealing as it's prevolution Mime Jr., I don't find anything necessarily wrong with it. Always thought the pink spots on the hands, cheeks, and body gave it a ladybug pattern that worked for it. The fleshy hues are also offset by the pink, so it's not as weird as it could have been.
Gen 4 brought a lot of evolutions to old pokemon, and a portion of these were controversial (often for over-complicating the design). Lickilicky is an overlooked improvement to Lickitung, who while not unappealing was a little hunched and stout and the tail seemed wrapped up. Lickilicky however rounds out the rough edges (literally, as it gets noticeably more circular) while adding a few neat additions. I personally like the bib it seems to be wearing around it's neck, it goes great for a gluttonous pokemon. I also appreciate that they shrunk the tongue back a bit, as it lets you see more of the pokemon's body than before.
I... Magmortar is... er...
...
Okay, I can't really defend this guy. The design is ugly as heck especially around the face that looks like a burn victim and whatever is going on in the back with the spikes and flamey tails but I just want to say that even a horrible design can look good with the right pose.
Specifically this pose, the HG/SS sprite. Especially if you put some pokeball seals on it so it looks like it fires at it's opponent as it pops out of the ball. The only time this 'mon has ever looked somewhat cool almost. Don't know why the sprite is better than the official artwork seeing as the poses are almost identical. I'd say the sprite draws less attention to the butt ugly face and seems to emphasize the red in the colors (while on the art I'm drawn more to the yellow). It's like, on the art it looks like red flames on a yellow body, but the sprite looks like yellow flames on a red body. Does this make any sense to anyone? Am I crazy?
Dewgong, often called the most boring design in the game, which I don't entirely agree with. Despite being based on a manatee, Dewgong definitely has more seal and walrus in there with it's tusks, horn, and body shape. But at the same time there's this fish like ripple in the fins that give it a lace like quality.
You can see what I'm getting at best in the Gen3 sprites, that tissue ripple on the fins.
Unfortunately, Dewgong is another mon that didn't benefit from the switch to models as now you can barely tell there's a texture on the fins.
Really what's holding it back is that bleak color pattern, the body is fine it just really deserves some more hues stat! If they made the fins translucent like a bridal veil, or just colored them slightly with blue, pink, or even yellow I think it would go a long way.
Bergmite. Aw, this little cutie looks like a Metroid enemy (look up "zoomer") and that's adorable. Personally I don't think many actually hate Bergmite or his evolution, other than the combat performance curse the majority of ice types suffer.
Mr. Mime. This is maybe more personal bias, but I've never had a problem with clowns and find the "scary clown" stereotype to be overplayed and boring by now (but thanks to IT 2017, we're not going to be rid of that anytime soon). While admittedly Mr. Mime will never be as appealing as it's prevolution Mime Jr., I don't find anything necessarily wrong with it. Always thought the pink spots on the hands, cheeks, and body gave it a ladybug pattern that worked for it. The fleshy hues are also offset by the pink, so it's not as weird as it could have been.
Gen 4 brought a lot of evolutions to old pokemon, and a portion of these were controversial (often for over-complicating the design). Lickilicky is an overlooked improvement to Lickitung, who while not unappealing was a little hunched and stout and the tail seemed wrapped up. Lickilicky however rounds out the rough edges (literally, as it gets noticeably more circular) while adding a few neat additions. I personally like the bib it seems to be wearing around it's neck, it goes great for a gluttonous pokemon. I also appreciate that they shrunk the tongue back a bit, as it lets you see more of the pokemon's body than before.
I... Magmortar is... er...
...
Okay, I can't really defend this guy. The design is ugly as heck especially around the face that looks like a burn victim and whatever is going on in the back with the spikes and flamey tails but I just want to say that even a horrible design can look good with the right pose.
Specifically this pose, the HG/SS sprite. Especially if you put some pokeball seals on it so it looks like it fires at it's opponent as it pops out of the ball. The only time this 'mon has ever looked somewhat cool almost. Don't know why the sprite is better than the official artwork seeing as the poses are almost identical. I'd say the sprite draws less attention to the butt ugly face and seems to emphasize the red in the colors (while on the art I'm drawn more to the yellow). It's like, on the art it looks like red flames on a yellow body, but the sprite looks like yellow flames on a red body. Does this make any sense to anyone? Am I crazy?