Thugly Duckling
I play TCG now
Oh I wasnt informed that was an issue, will fix now
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Ubers Analysis Discussion Thread
- Thread starter malefic
- Start date
Small detail on Smeargle: It currently runs Iron Head to be able to OHKO Mega Diancie at +2. While it's rare for the situation to occur, a Timid Nature with Flash Cannon will not only guarantee the OHKO after Stealth Rock should Diancie choose not to Mega Evolve on that turn (saving some 50/50 situations), it will also keep threatening Mega Diancie after accumulating Diamond Storm boosts. Also, it doesn't make contact, so a cheeky mon like Ferrothorn cannot break its Sash.
Against the standard offensive Mega Diancie both moves, as they should, deal the same amount of damage and barely OHKO when at +2.
If Mega Diancie does get +1 via Diamond Storm before Smeargle attacks then Smeargle fails to OHKO Mega Diancie at +2 with Iron Head.
Against the standard Defense invested Mega Diancie, +2 Flash Cannon only has a chance to OHKO if Mega Diancie has taken SR damage, while +2 Iron Head is an assured 2HKO.
If for whatever reason standard offensive Mega Diancie does not Mega Evolve, both moves deal the same damage at +2 and fail to OHKO unless Diancie has taken SR damage.
If for whatever reason Defense invested Mega Diancie does not Mega Evolve, both moves 2HKO at +2.
There isn't really a clear and decisive difference here; you pretty much hedge the flinch rate of Iron Head against Mega Diancie's choosing to Diamond Storm and get to +1. Idk, I guess Flash Cannon is marginally better.
If Mega Diancie does get +1 via Diamond Storm before Smeargle attacks then Smeargle fails to OHKO Mega Diancie at +2 with Iron Head.
Against the standard Defense invested Mega Diancie, +2 Flash Cannon only has a chance to OHKO if Mega Diancie has taken SR damage, while +2 Iron Head is an assured 2HKO.
If for whatever reason standard offensive Mega Diancie does not Mega Evolve, both moves deal the same damage at +2 and fail to OHKO unless Diancie has taken SR damage.
If for whatever reason Defense invested Mega Diancie does not Mega Evolve, both moves 2HKO at +2.
There isn't really a clear and decisive difference here; you pretty much hedge the flinch rate of Iron Head against Mega Diancie's choosing to Diamond Storm and get to +1. Idk, I guess Flash Cannon is marginally better.
It is also worth noting that Technician Magnet Bomb is stronger than both and also doesn't make contact. You'd have to drop the confusion immunity, though.
There's some strong support to get the Lando-T analysis back up. It does well against P Don which is already a consistent use, while Intimidate is generally good utility. There's some debate as to how worthwhile SR sets are, but that can be argued once the thread is up.
What I had is kinda old so it obviously needs a bit of work, but it had one QC check at the time of the rejection:
What I had is kinda old so it obviously needs a bit of work, but it had one QC check at the time of the rejection:
Overview
########
- Checks a variety of threats including Primal Groudon, Ho-Oh, SD Arceus, Klefki, and Mega Blaziken
- Intimidate is a very handy ability that allows it to pivot and simulate more physical bulk than it actually has
- Interesting typing makes it Ground immune and Electric immune, but with an exploitable weakness to Ice
- Strong base 145 Attack
- Base 91 Speed sits just above the common base 90 Speed benchmark
- Has a solid physical movepool to play around with, including Explosion and U-Turn
- Immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sticky Web
- In competition with Primal Groudon to some extent (Primal Groudon is slightly stronger, more bulky, checks a larger portion of the metagame and immune to burns, however Landorus-T is Ground immune, can hold an item, has Intimidate, and gets U-Turn and Explosion)
- What it checks it does not always check well in a defensive manner
- Frail on the special side
- Lack of recovery other than Leftovers
- Highly susceptible to burns, which is an even bigger problem when two of the Pokemon you intend to check can burn you easily
Choice Scarf
########
name: Fashionable Lando
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: U-Turn
move 4: Explosion / Superpower
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Intimidate
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant / Jolly
Moves
========
- Earthquake is not only the best way for Landorus-T to dish out damage, but trumps a variety of relevant targets
- Stone Edge is for revenge killing Ho-Oh, Offensive Yveltal, Rayquaza, and Shaymin-S
- U-Turn prevents Landorus-T from giving free turns to opposing teams that have an excellent switch-in to Landorus-T
- Explosion is a great last ditch method of dealing damage and can prevent the opponent from being able to Defog
- Superpower can nail threats such as Extremekiller Arceus, Ferrothorn, and Darkrai
Set Details
========
- 252 Attack EVs with an Adamant nature are used to make Landorus-T hit as hard as possible on a Choice Scarf set
- 252 Speed EVs give Landorus-T the raw Speed for the Choice Scarf to boost, and also grants Landorus-T the ability to out-speed up to Choice Scarf base 90 Pokemon that don't run a Speed boosting nature
- The remaining 4 EVs are used to slightly raise the Defense stat
- A Jolly nature is an option to guarantee that Landorus-T will outspeed up to base 90 Choice Scarf Pokemon
- A Choice Scarf gives Landorus-T the ability to revenge kill a variety of foes it would otherwise get out-sped by, such as Darkrai, Mega Gengar, Xerneas, Mewtwo, and Arceus formes
Usage Tips
========
- The combination of Intimidate and U-Turn can allow Landorus-T to function as a pivot, however because Landorus-T has no instant or passive recovery it can only be used a few times as such
- This set is somewhat unexpected for opponents, so consistently spamming fast U-Turn early in the game is a good way to give away the set, so minimal play until a situation where the opponent intends to stay in thinking they will move first is how you can surprise them
- Even though Earthquake has many targets in the Ubers tier, virtually all teams pack at least one Ground immunity. In the situation of an eventual switch into a Ground immune target by your opponent, you will want to U-Turn or, alternatively, Stone Edge if their Ground immunity can be taken down by it
- If Landorus-T revenge kills an opposing Pokemon with Earthquake and your opponent sends in a Pokemon with a Ground immunity, you will almost always want to switch immediately out. This means that the Ground immune Pokemon will get a free turn; make sure your team can accommodate this before deciding to revenge kill with Earthquake
Team Options
========
- Darkrai
- Xerneas
- Mega Gengar
- Arceus-Ghost
- Arceus-Dark
- Primal Kyogre
- Latias and Latios
- Yveltal
- Arceus-Rock
- Mewtwo
- Shaymin-S
Defensive Stealth Rock
########
name: Lando Calrissian
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Toxic / U-Turn
item: Leftovers
ability: Intimidate
evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
nature: Impish
Moves
========
- Landorus-T has the access to Stealth Rock and the right qualities to set it. This is partly due to the fact that Ho-Oh will not want to switch into it, it can threaten Primal Groudon, and can pivot out or punish several common Defoggers
- Earthquake is necessary so that Landorus-T can threaten Klefki, Primal Groudon, and Mega Blaziken. It also serves as the primary method of damage output for this set
- Stone Edge pairs well with Earthquake, and can deal damage to a variety of threats immune to Earthquake; most notably Ho-Oh
- Toxic serves as punishment for support Arceus, Latios, Latias, and Giratina-O; the most common Defoggers in the Ubers tier
- On more offensive builds, U-Turn can be used to maintain momentum and move immediately into a teammate that can threaten an incoming Defogger
Set Details
========
- 248 HP EVs are invested to increase Landorus-T’s overall bulk
- 252 Defense EVs with an Impish nature are used to maximize physical bulk, which when combined with Intimidate allow it to tank strong physical attacks from the threats it intends to check
- The remaining 8 EVs are slotted into Attack which allow Earthquake and Stone Edge to deal slightly more damage
- Leftovers is the preferred item because Landorus-T has no access to instant recovery and instead must rely on passive recovery to stay alive
Usage Tips
========
- Due to lacking reliable recovery, Landorus-T can unfortunately become beat down throughout the duration of a battle if used heavily. For this reason it becomes imperative that it is used minimally so long as it has roles that it must fulfill; for example, Mega Blaziken can break through a Landorus-T with prior damage with Flare Blitz
- While Landorus-T can directly switch into Ho-Oh if it has to, it fears a burn from Sacred Fire. It is better to maintain Stealth Rock pressure such that Ho-Oh cannot come in for free. The way this is done can become quite elaborate depending on situational nuisances, but the basic idea is that Stealth Rock should be set early and pressure maintained on the opponent’s anit-hazard support. Furthermore, Landorus-T can be double switched into an impeding Ho-oh switch-in if Stealth Rock was removed such that Ho-Oh is immediately forced back out.
- The final moveslot of Toxic or U-Turn is one of the methods in which the previously mentioned pressure is maintained. Toxic, for example, will not prevent a Defog in the short run, but will wear down common Defoggers such as support Arceus, Latios, Latias, and Giratina-O, giving them fewer opportunities to come in and Defog while eventually, Giratina-O for example, will fall completely. U-Turn on the other hand, can be used to maneuver directly into a teammate that can entirely stop a Defog, or if in a scenario where Stealth Rock has not already been set, into a threat that performs well against the opposing Defogger. In the first case, either Taunt will stop the use of Defog, or your Pokemon will have such an advantage that your opponent will immediately want to switch (without the chance to Defog) because they need their Defogger alive. In the second case, Stealth Rock is not already set and your opponent is immediately expecting the set so they go straight to their Defogger. The result is that you U-Turn on the turn they come in without setting Stealth Rock, but this still gives you the advantage because you can go into a powerful teammate for free that can threaten the support Arc and force damage upon your opponent’s best check.
- Knock Off is a move to be particularly aware of when using Landorus-T; not because of the immediate effect, but because without Leftovers Landorus-T becomes even more susceptible to being beaten down over the course of the battle
- When using Landorus-T, you should also hesitate to directly switch into Primal Groudon because of Lava Plume, which not only deals significant damage due to Landorus-T’s lackluster special bulk, but because of the burn chance. Offensive Primal Ground sets usually don’t carry this move, but it is common on defensive sets so be wary of it.
- When checking a physical threat such as Extremekiller Arceus, Intimidate can be used continually to lower the opposing threat’s Attack stat. If in a situation of an out-of-hand setup sweeper such as Extremekiller Arceus, you can force mindgames by playing Landorus-T between a Pokemon that Arceus can only really hit with Earthquake. Remember that Swords Dance boosts the Attack stat by +2 and Intimidate only lowers it by -1.
Team Options
========
- Arceus-Dark
- Arceus-Ghost
- Latias and Latios
- Primal Kyogre
- Yveltal
- Klefki
- Xerneas
- Mega Scizor
- Arceus-Fairy
- Arceus-Water
- Arceus-Grass
- Palkia
- Clefable
- Blissey
Offensive Stealth Rock
########
name: Offensive Lando
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: U-Turn / Explosion
item: Earth Plate / Life Orb
ability: Intimidate
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant / Jolly
Moves
========
- Landorus-T can also run Stealth Rock for an offensive set
- Earthquake is the strongest STAB available for Landorus-T and deals hefty damage to Primal Groudon, Klefki, and Mega Blaziken
- Stone Edge is used to be able to hit Ho-Oh, but can also deal solid damage to a variety of switch-ins expecting Earthquake
- U-Turn not only chips down opponents, but helps Landorus-T keep some momentum as a Stealth Rock setter for offensive teams
- Explosion can be used to deal massive damage to a target when Landorus-T is no longer needed, and like U-Turn is helps maintain momentum
- Toxic is not slashed, but it is a more defensive option to hit common switch-ins to Landorus-T
Set Details
========
- 252 Attack EVs with and Adamant nature are used to maximize offensive presence, allowing Landorus-T to even 2HKO max Defense Primal Kyogre after Stealth Rock
- 252 Speed EVs are used to keep Landorus-T relatively fast, and beats the common base 90 Speed Ubers that run 252 Speed investment
- The remaining 4 EVs are slotted into Defense
- Jolly is an option to maximize Landorus-T’s Speed so that it will always out-speed any Pokemon with base 90 Speed, and also out-speeds Adamant Rayquaza
- An Earth Plate is used to further increase the damage of Earthquake without any cost of HP in order to help Landorus-T stay around longer
- A Life Orb makes Earthquake slightly stronger when compared to the Earth Plate and also applies to Landorus-T’s other moves, however it limits the number of times Landorus-T can attack
Usage Tips
========
- Before using this set make sure it is justified, as it is generally outclassed by Primal Groudon as an offensive Stealth Rock setter. The reasons to use Landorus-T over Primal Groudon are if you team needs the Ground immunity, U-Turn on a Stealth Rock setter, Explosion, or an additional check for Extremekiller Arceus and Primal Groudon
- Because this set works best on offensive builds, the idea of maintaining Stealth Rock pressure is that more important. For this reason, Stealth Rock needs to be set as early as possible and maintained over the duration of the match. Sometimes it is impossible to prevent an opponent Defog or Rapid Spin, so for the duration between Stealth Rock is removed and set again, do your best to not let Ho-Oh in for free
- This set runs no bulk investment, so it dislikes switching into Ho-Oh even more than the defensive set
- While it may be tempting to always lead with Landorus-T, you should not lead against an impending Darkrai or Kyogre
- With 91 base Speed, Landorus-T sits in the middle of a clustered Speed tier. Unless you are running a Jolly nature, you cannot assure you will always be faster than common base 90 Speed Pokemon such as Primal Kyogre, Primal Groudon, Dialga, and Ho-Oh. Meanwhile it is very possible to be faster than Pokemon such as Yveltal and Mega Kangaskhan depending on the spreads being run. By judging damage output from these threats it should become apparent how much Speed they are running, and thus if it is appropriate to stay in with Landorus-T against them in certain situations
- U-Turn should be used as a tool not only to chip away at the other team, but to maintain the offensive advantage in a match. While usually it makes sense for opponents to make safe plays, it can be risky to U-Turn on a threat that Landorus-T is your best answer to, because if they stay in you will have to send something other than Landorus-T in to take the attack
Team Options
========
- Xerneas
- Mega Gengar
- Arceus-Ghost
- Arceus-Dark
- Darkrai
- Primal Kyogre
- Latias and Latios
- Yveltal
- Arceus-Rock
- Mewtwo
- Shaymin-Sky
Other Options
########
- Choice Band
- Double Dance
- Knock Off
- Iron Tail
- Substitute
- Punishment
- Rock Tomb
Checks & Counters
########
- Giratina Forms
- Support Arceus (Water, Ghost, Fairy, Grass)
- Skarmory
- Defensive Ground-types (Gliscor, Landorus-T, Hippowdon)
- Cloyster
- Sableye
- Latias and Latios
- Primal Kyogre
- Fast and powerful Special Attackers (Kyurem-W, Palkia, Yveltal, Shaymin-S, Mewtwo, Darkrai, Xerneas)
- Lugia
- Ferrothorn
- Arceus-Ice
########
- Checks a variety of threats including Primal Groudon, Ho-Oh, SD Arceus, Klefki, and Mega Blaziken
- Intimidate is a very handy ability that allows it to pivot and simulate more physical bulk than it actually has
- Interesting typing makes it Ground immune and Electric immune, but with an exploitable weakness to Ice
- Strong base 145 Attack
- Base 91 Speed sits just above the common base 90 Speed benchmark
- Has a solid physical movepool to play around with, including Explosion and U-Turn
- Immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sticky Web
- In competition with Primal Groudon to some extent (Primal Groudon is slightly stronger, more bulky, checks a larger portion of the metagame and immune to burns, however Landorus-T is Ground immune, can hold an item, has Intimidate, and gets U-Turn and Explosion)
- What it checks it does not always check well in a defensive manner
- Frail on the special side
- Lack of recovery other than Leftovers
- Highly susceptible to burns, which is an even bigger problem when two of the Pokemon you intend to check can burn you easily
Choice Scarf
########
name: Fashionable Lando
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: U-Turn
move 4: Explosion / Superpower
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Intimidate
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant / Jolly
Moves
========
- Earthquake is not only the best way for Landorus-T to dish out damage, but trumps a variety of relevant targets
- Stone Edge is for revenge killing Ho-Oh, Offensive Yveltal, Rayquaza, and Shaymin-S
- U-Turn prevents Landorus-T from giving free turns to opposing teams that have an excellent switch-in to Landorus-T
- Explosion is a great last ditch method of dealing damage and can prevent the opponent from being able to Defog
- Superpower can nail threats such as Extremekiller Arceus, Ferrothorn, and Darkrai
Set Details
========
- 252 Attack EVs with an Adamant nature are used to make Landorus-T hit as hard as possible on a Choice Scarf set
- 252 Speed EVs give Landorus-T the raw Speed for the Choice Scarf to boost, and also grants Landorus-T the ability to out-speed up to Choice Scarf base 90 Pokemon that don't run a Speed boosting nature
- The remaining 4 EVs are used to slightly raise the Defense stat
- A Jolly nature is an option to guarantee that Landorus-T will outspeed up to base 90 Choice Scarf Pokemon
- A Choice Scarf gives Landorus-T the ability to revenge kill a variety of foes it would otherwise get out-sped by, such as Darkrai, Mega Gengar, Xerneas, Mewtwo, and Arceus formes
Usage Tips
========
- The combination of Intimidate and U-Turn can allow Landorus-T to function as a pivot, however because Landorus-T has no instant or passive recovery it can only be used a few times as such
- This set is somewhat unexpected for opponents, so consistently spamming fast U-Turn early in the game is a good way to give away the set, so minimal play until a situation where the opponent intends to stay in thinking they will move first is how you can surprise them
- Even though Earthquake has many targets in the Ubers tier, virtually all teams pack at least one Ground immunity. In the situation of an eventual switch into a Ground immune target by your opponent, you will want to U-Turn or, alternatively, Stone Edge if their Ground immunity can be taken down by it
- If Landorus-T revenge kills an opposing Pokemon with Earthquake and your opponent sends in a Pokemon with a Ground immunity, you will almost always want to switch immediately out. This means that the Ground immune Pokemon will get a free turn; make sure your team can accommodate this before deciding to revenge kill with Earthquake
Team Options
========
- Darkrai
- Xerneas
- Mega Gengar
- Arceus-Ghost
- Arceus-Dark
- Primal Kyogre
- Latias and Latios
- Yveltal
- Arceus-Rock
- Mewtwo
- Shaymin-S
Defensive Stealth Rock
########
name: Lando Calrissian
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Toxic / U-Turn
item: Leftovers
ability: Intimidate
evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
nature: Impish
Moves
========
- Landorus-T has the access to Stealth Rock and the right qualities to set it. This is partly due to the fact that Ho-Oh will not want to switch into it, it can threaten Primal Groudon, and can pivot out or punish several common Defoggers
- Earthquake is necessary so that Landorus-T can threaten Klefki, Primal Groudon, and Mega Blaziken. It also serves as the primary method of damage output for this set
- Stone Edge pairs well with Earthquake, and can deal damage to a variety of threats immune to Earthquake; most notably Ho-Oh
- Toxic serves as punishment for support Arceus, Latios, Latias, and Giratina-O; the most common Defoggers in the Ubers tier
- On more offensive builds, U-Turn can be used to maintain momentum and move immediately into a teammate that can threaten an incoming Defogger
Set Details
========
- 248 HP EVs are invested to increase Landorus-T’s overall bulk
- 252 Defense EVs with an Impish nature are used to maximize physical bulk, which when combined with Intimidate allow it to tank strong physical attacks from the threats it intends to check
- The remaining 8 EVs are slotted into Attack which allow Earthquake and Stone Edge to deal slightly more damage
- Leftovers is the preferred item because Landorus-T has no access to instant recovery and instead must rely on passive recovery to stay alive
Usage Tips
========
- Due to lacking reliable recovery, Landorus-T can unfortunately become beat down throughout the duration of a battle if used heavily. For this reason it becomes imperative that it is used minimally so long as it has roles that it must fulfill; for example, Mega Blaziken can break through a Landorus-T with prior damage with Flare Blitz
- While Landorus-T can directly switch into Ho-Oh if it has to, it fears a burn from Sacred Fire. It is better to maintain Stealth Rock pressure such that Ho-Oh cannot come in for free. The way this is done can become quite elaborate depending on situational nuisances, but the basic idea is that Stealth Rock should be set early and pressure maintained on the opponent’s anit-hazard support. Furthermore, Landorus-T can be double switched into an impeding Ho-oh switch-in if Stealth Rock was removed such that Ho-Oh is immediately forced back out.
- The final moveslot of Toxic or U-Turn is one of the methods in which the previously mentioned pressure is maintained. Toxic, for example, will not prevent a Defog in the short run, but will wear down common Defoggers such as support Arceus, Latios, Latias, and Giratina-O, giving them fewer opportunities to come in and Defog while eventually, Giratina-O for example, will fall completely. U-Turn on the other hand, can be used to maneuver directly into a teammate that can entirely stop a Defog, or if in a scenario where Stealth Rock has not already been set, into a threat that performs well against the opposing Defogger. In the first case, either Taunt will stop the use of Defog, or your Pokemon will have such an advantage that your opponent will immediately want to switch (without the chance to Defog) because they need their Defogger alive. In the second case, Stealth Rock is not already set and your opponent is immediately expecting the set so they go straight to their Defogger. The result is that you U-Turn on the turn they come in without setting Stealth Rock, but this still gives you the advantage because you can go into a powerful teammate for free that can threaten the support Arc and force damage upon your opponent’s best check.
- Knock Off is a move to be particularly aware of when using Landorus-T; not because of the immediate effect, but because without Leftovers Landorus-T becomes even more susceptible to being beaten down over the course of the battle
- When using Landorus-T, you should also hesitate to directly switch into Primal Groudon because of Lava Plume, which not only deals significant damage due to Landorus-T’s lackluster special bulk, but because of the burn chance. Offensive Primal Ground sets usually don’t carry this move, but it is common on defensive sets so be wary of it.
- When checking a physical threat such as Extremekiller Arceus, Intimidate can be used continually to lower the opposing threat’s Attack stat. If in a situation of an out-of-hand setup sweeper such as Extremekiller Arceus, you can force mindgames by playing Landorus-T between a Pokemon that Arceus can only really hit with Earthquake. Remember that Swords Dance boosts the Attack stat by +2 and Intimidate only lowers it by -1.
Team Options
========
- Arceus-Dark
- Arceus-Ghost
- Latias and Latios
- Primal Kyogre
- Yveltal
- Klefki
- Xerneas
- Mega Scizor
- Arceus-Fairy
- Arceus-Water
- Arceus-Grass
- Palkia
- Clefable
- Blissey
Offensive Stealth Rock
########
name: Offensive Lando
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: U-Turn / Explosion
item: Earth Plate / Life Orb
ability: Intimidate
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant / Jolly
Moves
========
- Landorus-T can also run Stealth Rock for an offensive set
- Earthquake is the strongest STAB available for Landorus-T and deals hefty damage to Primal Groudon, Klefki, and Mega Blaziken
- Stone Edge is used to be able to hit Ho-Oh, but can also deal solid damage to a variety of switch-ins expecting Earthquake
- U-Turn not only chips down opponents, but helps Landorus-T keep some momentum as a Stealth Rock setter for offensive teams
- Explosion can be used to deal massive damage to a target when Landorus-T is no longer needed, and like U-Turn is helps maintain momentum
- Toxic is not slashed, but it is a more defensive option to hit common switch-ins to Landorus-T
Set Details
========
- 252 Attack EVs with and Adamant nature are used to maximize offensive presence, allowing Landorus-T to even 2HKO max Defense Primal Kyogre after Stealth Rock
- 252 Speed EVs are used to keep Landorus-T relatively fast, and beats the common base 90 Speed Ubers that run 252 Speed investment
- The remaining 4 EVs are slotted into Defense
- Jolly is an option to maximize Landorus-T’s Speed so that it will always out-speed any Pokemon with base 90 Speed, and also out-speeds Adamant Rayquaza
- An Earth Plate is used to further increase the damage of Earthquake without any cost of HP in order to help Landorus-T stay around longer
- A Life Orb makes Earthquake slightly stronger when compared to the Earth Plate and also applies to Landorus-T’s other moves, however it limits the number of times Landorus-T can attack
Usage Tips
========
- Before using this set make sure it is justified, as it is generally outclassed by Primal Groudon as an offensive Stealth Rock setter. The reasons to use Landorus-T over Primal Groudon are if you team needs the Ground immunity, U-Turn on a Stealth Rock setter, Explosion, or an additional check for Extremekiller Arceus and Primal Groudon
- Because this set works best on offensive builds, the idea of maintaining Stealth Rock pressure is that more important. For this reason, Stealth Rock needs to be set as early as possible and maintained over the duration of the match. Sometimes it is impossible to prevent an opponent Defog or Rapid Spin, so for the duration between Stealth Rock is removed and set again, do your best to not let Ho-Oh in for free
- This set runs no bulk investment, so it dislikes switching into Ho-Oh even more than the defensive set
- While it may be tempting to always lead with Landorus-T, you should not lead against an impending Darkrai or Kyogre
- With 91 base Speed, Landorus-T sits in the middle of a clustered Speed tier. Unless you are running a Jolly nature, you cannot assure you will always be faster than common base 90 Speed Pokemon such as Primal Kyogre, Primal Groudon, Dialga, and Ho-Oh. Meanwhile it is very possible to be faster than Pokemon such as Yveltal and Mega Kangaskhan depending on the spreads being run. By judging damage output from these threats it should become apparent how much Speed they are running, and thus if it is appropriate to stay in with Landorus-T against them in certain situations
- U-Turn should be used as a tool not only to chip away at the other team, but to maintain the offensive advantage in a match. While usually it makes sense for opponents to make safe plays, it can be risky to U-Turn on a threat that Landorus-T is your best answer to, because if they stay in you will have to send something other than Landorus-T in to take the attack
Team Options
========
- Xerneas
- Mega Gengar
- Arceus-Ghost
- Arceus-Dark
- Darkrai
- Primal Kyogre
- Latias and Latios
- Yveltal
- Arceus-Rock
- Mewtwo
- Shaymin-Sky
Other Options
########
- Choice Band
- Double Dance
- Knock Off
- Iron Tail
- Substitute
- Punishment
- Rock Tomb
Checks & Counters
########
- Giratina Forms
- Support Arceus (Water, Ghost, Fairy, Grass)
- Skarmory
- Defensive Ground-types (Gliscor, Landorus-T, Hippowdon)
- Cloyster
- Sableye
- Latias and Latios
- Primal Kyogre
- Fast and powerful Special Attackers (Kyurem-W, Palkia, Yveltal, Shaymin-S, Mewtwo, Darkrai, Xerneas)
- Lugia
- Ferrothorn
- Arceus-Ice
One Pokémon I saw in another Ubers discussion is Solrock - despite being very weak, it has a very good matchup against Primal Groudon, Mega Salamence and Ho-oh. With a full physical investment, it isn't 2HKOed by anything on the standard sets of the two (though it won't like Sacred Fire burns). Does this niche counter usability warrant an analysis?
Thugly Duckling
I play TCG now
Hack LightningLord2 technician hidden power steel is stronger than flash cannon
A set I believe should be included in Ground Arceus's analysis:
Arceus @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
Judgment
Recover
Defog / Ice Beam
Toxic / Will-O-Wisp / Ice Beam
One of the few Pokémon that can reliably counter Primal Groudon. It also counters Zekrom, and if running Ice Beam Mega Salamence and Rayquaza. Judgment is chosen as the STAB move as the 2 main targets of this set (Primal Groudon and Zekrom) have lower Special Defence. Recover keeps you alive and healthy. Defog gets rid of hazards; Ground Arceus is a good Defogger since it resists Stealth Rock. Ice Beam on the other hand scores big hits on Mega Salamence, Raquaza and Shaymin-S. Toxic cripples Ho-Oh, Latias and Giratina-O; Will-O-Wisp cripples the likes of Mega Salamence and Extreme Killer Arceus. EVs maximise HP for maximum overall bulk, with enough Speed to outrun Adamant Rayquaza and Modest Kyurem-W. The rest is in Defence for extra bulk. Since Ground Arceus's weaknesses are almost all special, a physically defensive spread works better. Roar's also an option to prevent opponents setting up on you.
This set deserves a space because Primal Groudon is one of those Pokémon you must bring a check for. It's also a great Defogger, and as another niche it's not susceptible to Mega Gengar (the bane of most support Arceus formes), as Gengar won't like taking a Ground type Judgment one bit.
Arceus @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
Judgment
Recover
Defog / Ice Beam
Toxic / Will-O-Wisp / Ice Beam
One of the few Pokémon that can reliably counter Primal Groudon. It also counters Zekrom, and if running Ice Beam Mega Salamence and Rayquaza. Judgment is chosen as the STAB move as the 2 main targets of this set (Primal Groudon and Zekrom) have lower Special Defence. Recover keeps you alive and healthy. Defog gets rid of hazards; Ground Arceus is a good Defogger since it resists Stealth Rock. Ice Beam on the other hand scores big hits on Mega Salamence, Raquaza and Shaymin-S. Toxic cripples Ho-Oh, Latias and Giratina-O; Will-O-Wisp cripples the likes of Mega Salamence and Extreme Killer Arceus. EVs maximise HP for maximum overall bulk, with enough Speed to outrun Adamant Rayquaza and Modest Kyurem-W. The rest is in Defence for extra bulk. Since Ground Arceus's weaknesses are almost all special, a physically defensive spread works better. Roar's also an option to prevent opponents setting up on you.
This set deserves a space because Primal Groudon is one of those Pokémon you must bring a check for. It's also a great Defogger, and as another niche it's not susceptible to Mega Gengar (the bane of most support Arceus formes), as Gengar won't like taking a Ground type Judgment one bit.
Thugly Duckling
I play TCG now
Bringing it to the attention of analyses uploaders that Zekrom's OO and C&C sections have not been updated with the changes brought by the addition of the shuca HC set I wrote up.
If y'all need me to c/p merge the revamp I did with the original analysis that can replace the code currently in place (or however this is done idk) to make implimenting the changes easier, I'll gladly do it.
If y'all need me to c/p merge the revamp I did with the original analysis that can replace the code currently in place (or however this is done idk) to make implimenting the changes easier, I'll gladly do it.
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Thugly Duckling
I play TCG now
"Priority users such as Extreme Killer Arceus can beat problematic revenge killers." is in the team options section of the Arceus Ground analysis ._.
This is going to be kind of controversial but does Xerneas really need all of it's sets as standalone sets or could some be toned down into OO? Geo obviously needs a set, Scarf warrants one, AoA I'm not really sold on but if someone has better experience with it than I do and could advocate for it that'd be cool, but defensive and Calm Mind? I don't think the analysis should reflect these sets as any more than very niche, which makes their rightful place in OO.
The analysis should be inclusive to viable sets regardless of their usage or the degree to which they fit across various builds. We have entire Pokemon that are niche and they get their own analysis. We even have sets in the works right now that I would argue are more niche than Xern's CM set.
The low placement of Xern's defensive and CM sets along with their rarity on the ladder is more than enough to inform new players that they are niche sets.
can modest hydro pump greninja get a mention in OO (or set details) of its analysis? it 2hkoes sableye and owns diancie
downside is not being able to taunt timid lati@s and max speed arceus formes, which is a noticeable trade-off but lati@s are usually modest anyway and the most common defog arceus virtually never runs max speed
downside is not being able to taunt timid lati@s and max speed arceus formes, which is a noticeable trade-off but lati@s are usually modest anyway and the most common defog arceus virtually never runs max speed
This Arceus risks a 2HKO from Standard MixQuaza if switching into Draco Meteor, as it can be brought into the KO range for Dragon Ascent (MixQuaza outspeeds this spread). It is only a check to Rayquaza.
EDIT: I think Toxic is the one move you want to keep or else you're a free switch-in for Ho-oh - you can't even gamble for a freeze due to Sacred Fire.
I don't really like the set but its seen a bit of use and is at least more viable than some of the other stuff that's on site so I'd agree it's probably worthy of a set.
Take Azelfie
More flags more fun
The import for DDance Mega Mence set has the item mispelled
Old
Salamence @ Salamenceite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
New
Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
If you don't see it there was an e after the c
Old
Salamence @ Salamenceite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
New
Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
If you don't see it there was an e after the c
I believe this is a thing only chaos can fix, and it's already a known issue.
I think the EV spreads on Primal Kyogre's Calm Mind, Defensive and Physical Attacker sets should be changed to:
Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 136 HP / 252 SpA / 120 Spe
Modest Nature
Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpD
Bold Nature
Kyore @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Atk / 44 SpD
Adamant / Brave Nature
This spread means you always survive a +2 Thunder from Geomancy Xerneas from full HP, so you can either cripple it with Thunder Wave or in the case of the defensive set, phaze it out with Roar. The defensive set can still check everything it's meant to, while the Physical set doesn't lose out on any important KOs (in fact the loss in damage is negligible). Outpacing Mega Diancie isn't an issue, as the only way that would ever stay in is if it had Protect, and it loses to Primal Kyogre regardless.
The Calm Mind set has enough Speed to outrun Geomancy Xerneas, so you can smack it with a +1 Origin Pulse before it can boost. You could also run 248 HP / 132 SpA / 120 Spe if you want more bulk.
Also, this set should be added to Normal Arceus:
Arceus @ Leftovers
Ability: Multitype
Bold Nature
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
- Will-O-Wisp / Reflect
- Recover
- Defog / Roar / Perish Song
- Ice Beam / Earth Power
With Mega Mewtwo X as the only common Fighting type, Normal Arceus can run a great defensive set. Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers; Reflect won't miss and lets you wall Primal Groudon. Recover is vital to stay healthy. Defog is always useful, but if you have something else on your team with the move Roar and Perish Song stop you being set up fodder. Ice Beam hits Rayquaza and Mega Salamence; Earth Power hits Primal Groudon.
Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 136 HP / 252 SpA / 120 Spe
Modest Nature
Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpD
Bold Nature
Kyore @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Atk / 44 SpD
Adamant / Brave Nature
This spread means you always survive a +2 Thunder from Geomancy Xerneas from full HP, so you can either cripple it with Thunder Wave or in the case of the defensive set, phaze it out with Roar. The defensive set can still check everything it's meant to, while the Physical set doesn't lose out on any important KOs (in fact the loss in damage is negligible). Outpacing Mega Diancie isn't an issue, as the only way that would ever stay in is if it had Protect, and it loses to Primal Kyogre regardless.
The Calm Mind set has enough Speed to outrun Geomancy Xerneas, so you can smack it with a +1 Origin Pulse before it can boost. You could also run 248 HP / 132 SpA / 120 Spe if you want more bulk.
Also, this set should be added to Normal Arceus:
Arceus @ Leftovers
Ability: Multitype
Bold Nature
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
- Will-O-Wisp / Reflect
- Recover
- Defog / Roar / Perish Song
- Ice Beam / Earth Power
With Mega Mewtwo X as the only common Fighting type, Normal Arceus can run a great defensive set. Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers; Reflect won't miss and lets you wall Primal Groudon. Recover is vital to stay healthy. Defog is always useful, but if you have something else on your team with the move Roar and Perish Song stop you being set up fodder. Ice Beam hits Rayquaza and Mega Salamence; Earth Power hits Primal Groudon.
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i'm not sold on the wallceus set but i will see about getting the new kyogre spreads on the analysis once i double check it with sweep/fireburn. any particular reason for 120 speed on the usual set?
kyogre in general may need some changing up (thunder is rarely used, blizzard is lol, hp ground is troll, choice scarf still exists) and rest appears to be growing in popularity even on the more attacking focused sets. we'll see.
kyogre in general may need some changing up (thunder is rarely used, blizzard is lol, hp ground is troll, choice scarf still exists) and rest appears to be growing in popularity even on the more attacking focused sets. we'll see.
120 Speed is used to outrun standard Geomancy Xerneas so you can smash it with a +1 Origin Pulse before it boosts. Wallceus works well on stall teams, although it's not so good on offensive ones. I ran it with Reflect when I tried making a stall team and it worked suprisingly well, since Fighting types are rare in Ubers. I'd also get rid of the How Refreshing set personally, and just slash Refresh and Silk Scarf on the standard Ekiller.
Take Azelfie
More flags more fun
po on the second sentence in the overview for Diancie.
mega Diancie is also graced with powerful base 160 offensive stats coupled with a fast 110 base Speed.
Mega Diancie is also graced with a powerful base 160 offensive stats coupled with a fast 110 base Speed
mega Diancie is also graced with powerful base 160 offensive stats coupled with a fast 110 base Speed.
Mega Diancie is also graced with a powerful base 160 offensive stats coupled with a fast 110 base Speed