ORAS PU The Pig And The Puppet (1500, needs work)

[Dazzling Gleamstar]

WHAT IS UP HARIYAMA ALERT NATION. I'M YOUR HOST, DAZZLING GLEAMSTAAAAR, LEEEEEET'S GET ROIGHT INTO THE RMT!

So this is a really old PU team I made a while back. I used to use it all the time and had a blast using it. It really felt like (to me) a perfect combination of "standard" and "fun/borderline gimmick" to give me both the ability to enjoy myself, but at the same time have the tools I needed to win as many matchups as I could manage. I managed to get it at about 1500, but how I usually play is less of a "grind the ladder to get a rank" and more of just "play until I get angry and stop having fun", so I'd sometimes get to decent score and then just stop playing, whereas I may have had the potential to climb higher. Regardless, I've been away from PU for a long time and was interested in getting back into the meta with my old team. I made this team before Muk, Cacturne, and Rotom-Fan dropped. So I wanted to post here just to get peoples opinions on my team. Whether it has some glaring flaws that could easily be fixed, whether the team is just trash, or whether it still has a place in the current metagame.

Replays (all in about the 1300-1500 range)

Banette Sweep is real:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-475938114
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-476636793 (not really a sweep, but showcases Banette)

Banette solo-ing stall:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-480946367
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-475402035
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-475475309

Thunder Wave is a heck of a drug:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-475519628

Playing around SD Mawile:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-475386312

Playing around banded Floatzel:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-473696115

Showcasing the effectiveness of the defensive core:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-477198731
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-475409045
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-475467043
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-477314316

Teambuilding Process:

I made this team originally for one purpose: to use a new set I'd thought of for Banette. Back when I used to play regularly in PU, I was the only person who was really using Banette. And man, did I use it. Once this thing dropped, I jumped onto it. Banette is honestly my favorite thing to use in the entire tier. I've made many teams with this mon, and I feel it's massively underrated for its wallbreaking potential and pure sheer force. People will argue with me that Banette is a trash mon and I'm always up for that discussion with people... just not here on this RMT. This pokemon, and its moveset, is the only thing I refuse to change. It's what makes the team fun.

The first partner I chose for Banette was Grumpig. Defensively, they don't do much together, but offensively they excel as they are both able to eliminate most counters to the other, for instance Grumpig can lure pokemon like Pawniard and Cacturne now that it's dropped, while Banette can 1v1 the majority of specially defensive walls in the tier like Audino, and Clefairy (will get into damage calcs later on).

Next onto the docket, I had 2 major holes to patch. A lack of speed, and a lack of power. PU as a tier in general I find to be slow enough that in some cases, a choice scarf isn't always needed for balance teams, or certainly not in the same way that it would be in other tiers. But I certainly needed a pokemon who could output massive spurts of damage in a turn. Floatzel has always been an incredible mon in the tier with coverage that is hard to ignore, and with it's fantastic speed tier it seemed like the best choice.

Moving onto the defensive core of the team, I started with the most obvious resistance I needed: that being to dark/knock off. When I look for a resistance to dark types, I don't consider purely types, rather a pokemon that can stomach the STAB hits from the common knock off users, pokemon who don't rely entirely on an eviolite, and defensive Mawile is the best pokemon for those very roles. The team originally had 2 u-turn pokemon and a volt switch pokemon, but as I took the team in a more balanced direction it became harder to maintain that. But having Mawile with baton pass to gain momentum gives a variation of the core I previously had. Mawile is my Stoutland/normal spam and bird check, as well as a decent check to some grass and poison types.

What my team lacked so far was the following: a poison resist that could hit poison types supper-effectively, a hazard remover, a ground immunity, a pokemon that could threaten offensive steel types like Mawile and Pawniard, and a fire spam check for pokemon like Rapidash. Vibrava, while being weak in its own right, has a niche in being more than capable of accomplishing all the above. And with the added bonus of U-turn into Banette (that being the original premise of the team, getting momentum into Banette to get a free sub) it just seemed too good to pass bye.

And the final pokemon of my defensive core: Clefairy, completing a form of Dragon Fairy Steel core. More importantly, it offers a second dark resist for dark types that would hit Mawile from the special side, as well as some strong special attackers that the rest of my team can't switch into like Rotom (and other electric types like zebstrika/raichu etc), Swanna, Arcicuno, among other things. I would've liked to have heal bell on Clefairy, but I have a status absorber for every status; Banette for sleep, Vibrava for paralysis, and Floatzel for burn so didn't find it necessary.

So, the team itself:

Nerf Bayonetta (Banette) @ Leftovers
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Phantom Force
- Gunk Shot
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute

Banette's attack stat is fantastic, and gunk shot is fairly spammable whenever phantom force isn't safe, as it's only a little bit less powerful. Phantom force from behind a sub is generally extremely safe because no normal type really appreciates a free switch into Banette behind a sub; Audino can't break the sub with knock off if it gets burned and takes too much damage from gunk shot+burn to 1v1, Chatot loses 1v1 anyways, Ursaring takes a ton from gunk shot, Stoutland has to take a burn to break the sub, etc. Plus Banette just beats stuff like chatot/Bouffalant/Audino 1v1 anyways even without a sub. Speed is for max speed base 45 pokemon, but Banette really shines on the team once I've spread paralysis around.

Audino:
0 Atk burned Audino Knock Off vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Banette: 45-53 (15.5 - 18.3%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Banette Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Audino: 149-176 (36.3 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage (which basically means, Audino can't wish+protect on me)

Clefairy:
252+ Atk Banette Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Clefairy: 312-368 (90.6 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Mawile:
4 Atk burned Mawile Play Rough vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Banette: 60-72 (19.4 - 23.3%) -- possible 5HKO

Regice:
252+ Atk Banette Phantom Force vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Regice: 148-175 (40.7 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Roselia:
252+ Atk Banette Phantom Force vs. 252 HP / 32 Def Eviolite Roselia: 174-205 (57.2 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Politoad:
252+ Atk Banette Phantom Force vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Politoed: 186-220 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Roadhog (Grumpig) @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt

With Banette having ghost STAB, I feel like running psycic+focus blast only is justified on grumpig. Taunt has always been a staple move for me to use on it, and thunder wave helps with the lack of speed the team has. Overall, in tandem with Banette, Grumpig helpes out versus stall matchups quite a lot. Versus offence, thunder wave support allows the rest of the team to take it on easier. Colbur berry is something I like to run on my Grumpig, and helps with sucker punch users, like Arbok, Cacturne, Mawile, and Pawniard. The speed outspeeds adamant Stoutland and adamant monferno and Jolly Pawniard, if that even exists.

Tails From Mario (Floatzel) @ Life Orb/Choice Specs
Ability: Water Veil
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Focus Blast/Switcheroo

Floatzel is the fastest pokemon on my team and hits basically everything in the tier for insane dammage. Kind of funny to think, this is my only steel "resist". But anyways his coverage hits pretty much the entire tier for neutral to suppereffective dammage.

Harvy Dent (Mawile) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Play Rough/Iron Head
- Toxic/Swords Dance
- Baton Pass

Physically defensive Mawile, toxic to help in breaking down opposing walls, with stealth rock and baton pass support. I'm on the fence with which STAB move, since iron head would be hitting Muk and mawile but play rough would be hitting Pawniard. Also, I'm pretty sure that 28 spdef evs guarentees I live life orb fire blast from sheer force Mawile, so I should probably be running that.

Vibrator (Vibrava) @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost

Vibrava is a great answer to stuff like golem, fire types like flareon/rapidash, and checks the steel types I'm weak to like mawile and pawniard. Pawniard can't 2hko and I run enough speed to outspeed Mawile and pokemon with a similiar speed tier. It's also an Arbok answer and my defogger.

Cle-fairly Good (Clefairy) @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
- Wish/Heal Bell
- Moonblast

Running wish+softboiled looks ackward. But the reason wish is nice is because it can keep Mawile healthy: thanks to the big difference in HP stats of the 2 pokemon, a wish from clefairy can heal Mawile by a lot. It can also pass wishes a few times into Banette or Grumpig more often then you might think.


Threatlist:

Things that 6-0:

, (Sub+calm mind)

Potentially Really Scary:

, bulky waters, (rest+calm mind)

Kinda Threatening, if I misplay:

 

[ManOfMany]

Hi Dazzling Gleamstar cool team and glad you are enjoying the PU meta. Sorry you had to go 4 days without a rate too.

I think the balanced core of your team is fairly solid, although you do struggle with stall a bit (especially now that Quagsire is here.) The thing I would change though is the Banette set. You said you really wanted to build around Banette, even though there are many better pokemon to use instead, so I won't sugest you to swap it out. However, I do think the set is sub-optimal since it does not accomplish any of Banette's niches. It lacks any priority, does not hit that hard and doesn't get much opportunities to set up a Sub due to being so frail. Overall it's quite a gimmicky set.

However, I suggest you run this instead:

Banette @ Life Orb
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Shadow Claw
- Shadow Sneak
- Sucker Punch

This Banette set takes advantage of Banette's unique double priority as well as its powerful neutral coverage with Shadow Claw. You should pair this set with SD+Pass Mawile, by changing toxic on your Mawile to Swords Dance. This would make a really neat core because Mawile can Baton Pass those Swords Dance boosts into Banette, and Banette can destroy teams with the boosts. And unlike other Sucker Punch users, it will have a powerful +2 Shadow Sneak to bypass those thinking they can play around Sucker Punch.

Another thing I suggest to change is putting Monferno over Grumpig. Grumpig overall does not help too much with your team and mostly checks pokemon that Clefairy already checks. However, Monferno would be very useful in preventing you by getting 6-0ed by Pawniard and also helping with Cacturne and Mawile. You can run Swords Dance or U-turn Monferno as standard, but Nasty Plot with Grass Knot would also be very nice on this team as a way to lure and get rid of Quagsire.

Finally, I suggest putting maximum physical defense EVs on Vibrava. This ensures that it will consistenly check Monferno, and the speed is much less useful than the extra bulk, trust me.

I hope you consider these changes, and good luck with your team!

 

[Dazzling Gleamstar]

Hi Dazzling Gleamstar cool team and glad you are enjoying the PU meta. Sorry you had to go 4 days without a rate too.

I think the balanced core of your team is fairly solid, although you do struggle with stall a bit (especially now that Quagsire is here.) The thing I would change though is the Banette set. You said you really wanted to build around Banette, even though there are many better pokemon to use instead, so I won't sugest you to swap it out. However, I do think the set is sub-optimal since it does not accomplish any of Banette's niches. It lacks any priority, does not hit that hard and doesn't get much opportunities to set up a Sub due to being so frail. Overall it's quite a gimmicky set.

However, I suggest you run this instead:

Banette @ Life Orb
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Shadow Claw
- Shadow Sneak
- Sucker Punch

This Banette set takes advantage of Banette's unique double priority as well as its powerful neutral coverage with Shadow Claw. You should pair this set with SD+Pass Mawile, by changing toxic on your Mawile to Swords Dance. This would make a really neat core because Mawile can Baton Pass those Swords Dance boosts into Banette, and Banette can destroy teams with the boosts. And unlike other Sucker Punch users, it will have a powerful +2 Shadow Sneak to bypass those thinking they can play around Sucker Punch.

Another thing I suggest to change is putting Monferno over Grumpig. Grumpig overall does not help too much with your team and mostly checks pokemon that Clefairy already checks. However, Monferno would be very useful in preventing you by getting 6-0ed by Pawniard and also helping with Cacturne and Mawile. You can run Swords Dance or U-turn Monferno as standard, but Nasty Plot with Grass Knot would also be very nice on this team as a way to lure and get rid of Quagsire.

Finally, I suggest putting maximum physical defense EVs on Vibrava. This ensures that it will consistenly check Monferno, and the speed is much less useful than the extra bulk, trust me.

I hope you consider these changes, and good luck with your team!

Thanks for the reply!

Honestly, I'm well aware the set is a gimmick set. I made it that way specifically. I always try to structure my team to revolve around a gimmick, to keep myself entertained with the game. I've played standard for so long is just bores me sometimes, so the way I keep it interesting, and TBH the way I keep my teams unique, is by using at least one borderline-gimmick moveset that the team is structured to support. The set, while it's no doubt a gimmick, isn't necessarily sub par as it's the moveset that can output the most amount of damage by utilising Banette 2 most damaging attacking moves while also being able to gain momentum on sacs or status with substitute. With leftovers, phantom force, and substitute, Banette can 1v1 things like roselia because the damage you output is simply too much for it to heal off, and you can maintain a sub on most defensive pokemon in the tier; notably Audino, lickilicky, Mawile and Avalugg. Which, in all honestly, is just really fun to do :P. And at the same time, I can't imagine ever using a Banette set without gunk shot, since gunk shot does more damage than shadow claw and also OHKOs clefairy and 2hkos most normal types. Also, if I ran a life orb set I feel like I'd miss taunt, but that's just me and my experiences (I've ran pretty much every possible variant of Banette, at some time).

The idea of SD pass on Mawile is actually something I never thought of but sounds actually brilliant for my team, as it lacks set up potential (an issue I'd noticed myself but never knew how to fix it). When I first read this I was a little concerned as toxic was my best way of wearing down a few specific defensive walls or setup mons, but I realised that the focus of the team was spreading thunder wave anyways, so that having toxic as my answer was counterproductive anyways. The idea of SD pass is actually such a nice idea that will help out vs stall, and I plan to test with it very soon. Thanks a bunch!

The idea of monferno is also another thing I didn't even notice, but I feel like it would help out the overall speed of the team, while also supplying another baton pass recipient. I'm a little uncertain about this still, as I'm losing the taunt user on my team as well as my secondary thunder wave user (since the way the bannette set works is after paralysis has been spread), but I think it's definitely worth trying out. I just need to find the right middleground between what grumpig offers in terms of support, bulk and speed control, and what monferno offers in terms of checking certain mons and maintaining a high overall speed.

The Vibrava change I'm not 100% sold on but is worth trying out. I feel like on a team that's as weak to mawile and pawniard, it's worth outspeeding them. But I'll deffinetaly test this as well and am appreciative for the idea.

I'm also considering running specs+switcheroo on floatzel, to give me an easier time versus stall matchups as well. Also, as my premier way of dealing damage, having less recoil seems potentially important. Thoughts?

All in all, thanks for your reply :)