The Great Wall - A Lugia Discussion Thread

[6A9 Ace Matador]

You don't need to "Ensure the death of Garchomp" at all. In fact, the best set is probably something that hits the highest possible recovery number for Lugia, so 416 I believe (max HP) and then put the rest into being able to speed Rayquaza. The remaining EVs can go into Defense.

However, there's no "best" EV spread for the great wall, it all depends on how Physically bulky you want Lugia.

 

[felix]

How viable is a Trick set on lugia? It seems that passing a Choice Specs to a physical opponent would really put them at a disadvantage. I thought you could even counter Wobuffet but realized that encoring trick would ruin that strategy.

 

[RaikouLover]

Actually Garchomp will survive Lugia's ice beam with that current spread even with sr factored in, 216 Atk vs 206 Def & 358 HP (95 Base Power): 288 - 340 (80.45% - 94.97%). Garchomp is now guaranteed to kill with stealth rock, 718 Atk vs 312 Def & 416 HP (100 Base Power): 330 - 390 (79.33% - 93.75%). I suggest adding the 64 def into SpA instead to ensure the death of Garchomp. DD rayquaza is going to beat you either way, and Sd ray has no chance.

That is absolutely 100% irrelevant considering the great wall packs Reflect AND Roost. Lugia switches in on Swords Dance, sets up Reflect while Garchomp Stone Edges, then can Roost off damage before going for the kill. Lugia is a 100% counter to Garchomp with that EV Spread. Choice Scarf Garchomp lacks the Power, and Choice Band and Swords Dance are outsped, Reflected in front of, then stalled out.

You don't need to "Ensure the death of Garchomp" at all. In fact, the best set is probably something that hits the highest possible recovery number for Lugia, so 416 I believe (max HP) and then put the rest into being able to speed Rayquaza. The remaining EVs can go into Defense.

However, there's no "best" EV spread for the great wall, it all depends on how Physically bulky you want Lugia.

The reason I am going to disagree with this is because Lugia NEEDS the speed to use Reflect and Roost effectively on all the physical pokemon packing Stone Edge. That is why I recommended going on slower than Timid and 192 Speed EVs (334).

 

[Chii]

-Cm
-Substitute
-Ice Beam
-Roost
is my favorite set. It works best with TS support(to beat non resttalk-Kyogre and Bliss)
Hiding behind a sub means you will not be beaten by tickling(lol) wobbuffets and if your lucky enough encore will fade before your oppoenent could break the sub and thus you might have a +6 Lugia on your hands.

 

[dragonexpert]

Sorry for somewhat reviving this thread, but I have a Lugia set that has not been mentioned and has been working great for me.

EVs: 252 HP/140 Def/118 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
Item:leftovers
- Calm Mind
- Aeroblast
- Whirlwind
- Roost

This set is able to wall just about anything the opponent throws at me. I realize that it is a slower Lugia, but it works well if your team likes to spread damage around. Some Special Defense EVs are needed to help against full power Water Spouts or Thunders. The set is able to block the opponent from setting up a bunch of stat boosts provided they don't have Taunt. Mewtwo is problematic so a switch out is normally required unless you already have a few Calm Minds up. I prefer Aeroblast because it hits everything for neutral damage except for Dialga. Having a high critical hit ratio is another reason I chose it.

 

[Private Piplup]

Aeroblast has only 8 PP. Pretty much half of all Ubers have Pressure. You're gonna run out of PP pretty quickly.

 

[Megan_Fox]

yea what piplup said, the Lugia is going to run out of pp too quickly and the lugia then essentially becomes worthless with the only thing it could do is phaze

 

[dragonexpert]

I use it primarily to phaze because I like to spread the damage around with it then use Rock Polish Groudon to finish the job. I don't use Aeroblast too often.

 

[Garganator]

Aeroblast has only 8 PP. Pretty much half of all Ubers have Pressure. You're gonna run out of PP pretty quickly.

Also this set gives so many free turns, it's not even funny. Tyranitar seriously dent you with CB Crunch and you can't even hit it back as he's immune to Aeroblast (trust me, Psychic type attacks are horrible, especially in Ubers tier). Metagross also resist x4 psychic attack and even T-Spikes don't help you here, Taunt + Calm Mind MewTwo just laughs on this set. Scizor also isn't your friend and he can just fire CB U-Turn for free. Darkrai also isn't good news - he may use Dark Void and Nasty Plot to overpower your Calm Minds anyway. I would go with Ice Beam, Thunder, whatever, but not Aeroblast. If Lugia has acces to Air Slash, just use Air Slash, it has superior coverage. Also Lugia is good wall, because she has good speed. Right now, Garchomp may SD up and OHKO you back before you can hit it back (yeah, it survives +1 Aeroblast without problems). Heck, CB Garchomp outspeeds you and 2OHKO you back as you're too slow to retaliate. Heck, even Rayquaza outspeeds you, which is even worse. To be honest for me Lugia doesn't work as a mixed wall - she has bad typing to take powerfull special hits, even after Calm Mind. And for Calm Minding she needs at least one more attack to use. And right now she's too slow to counter or even handle when Calm Minding some faster physical powerhorses.

Unfortunately I say no for this set. But I guess with Air Slash and Spikes support MAY work. But for me it's still too slow with those EVs.

EDIT: My mistake, I forgot about this. But still, as someone mentioned - 8 PP makes it a bit sad. Tyranitar still is a threat and easily beats you with Crunch, while you can't seriously hit it back. Metagross still doesn't mind it and Scizor also is bulky enough to take it more then once. Darkrai can still switch in and Dark Void + Nasty Plot his way through Lugia. And all those points I mentioned are still valid. Also Garchomp/Rayquaza/ParaDancing Groudon still easily takes it on. And if it has Air Slash - go with Air Slash, as it has more PP.

 

[EvilMario]

Why is it that almost no Lugia run Thunder Wave? It pairs decently with Ice Beam (at least making Garchomp and Groudon think twice about switching in.), crippling Lugia's offensive switch-ins.

How gimmicky is Skill Swap on a Lugia? If you're able to give Wobbuffet pressure, and take Shadow Tag for yourself, Lugia could be quite a pain. But.. that's basically the only Pokemon I could see it having any use for.

 

[SecretAZNMan]

Also this set gives so many free turns, it's not even funny. Tyranitar seriously dent you with CB Crunch and you can't even hit it back as he's immune to Aeroblast (trust me, Psychic type attacks are horrible, especially in Ubers tier). Metagross also resist x4 psychic attack

Aeroblast is a flying attack.

 

[dragonexpert]

Why is it that almost no Lugia run Thunder Wave? It pairs decently with Ice Beam (at least making Garchomp and Groudon think twice about switching in.), crippling Lugia's offensive switch-ins.

How gimmicky is Skill Swap on a Lugia? If you're able to give Wobbuffet pressure, and take Shadow Tag for yourself, Lugia could be quite a pain. But.. that's basically the only Pokemon I could see it having any use for.

That might be worth testing. It would only work against players that use Wobbuffet though. Possible EV spread being what though?

 

[TSPhoenix]

I doubt it, Shadow Tag is pretty much the only ability in Ubers that is useful to Lugia, and its only really useful on the switch-in. There are better things for disposing of Wobbuffet.

 

[Chomper The Sharptooth]

But what do you gain from traping Wobbufett? You might be able to set up a few calm minds but that only leaves you with two attacks. I'd try a set like this
Lugia @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
~ Skill Swap
~ Calm Mind
~ Ice Beam
~ Thunder / Roost / Substitute

Pretty much the same as the calm minder, with no EV change or move change I can think of (besides removing the Whirlwind that is useless on this set). When up against Wobby he is almost guaranteed 6 stat ups (all he can do is tickle which could be a pain, or encore your calm minds). Substitute might also fill that fourth spot seeing as it keeps you from being revenged and eats the damage from mirror coat (with that spread Lugia only does 47.2% - 55.7% to him, not even a guaranteed 2HKO). A modest Lugia with 252 EV's in SpAtk still only manages 66.7% - 78.6%, a 2HKO. It might not be the most viable but it certainly is worth a try if you can work around those problems.

EDIT: I'm about to try a 204 HP/192 Spd/112 SAtk, Timid nature Wobby Lure/Bulky Sweeper. The 101 subs are nice for Blissey, though you can't exactly stall without recover. I'm not too keen on the metagame as to know what 192 and timid outspeeds so I left that. The remainder is dumped into Sp.Atk. The hope is he isn't taking many attacks so none is put into defense. Nothing has a shot at brwaking through his defenses on the special side though.

 

[Acritter]

I don't think the Swap is so much about trapping Wobbo with Lugia as preventing Wobbo from trapping Lugia. A combination of Skill Swap Lugia with Tickle Wobbuffet (and a Pursuiter of choice, but that's quite common in every metagame) would easily kill any Wobbuffet around, but it's not so clear if sacrificing a Lugia moveslot is justifiable by a single situational kill.

 

[trickroom]

In my opinion,bold lugia with max hp and defense is better in walling than timid lugia in some cases.Maximum defense lugia can stall out even groudon that has rock polished as lugia can reflect and survive the next blow.Swords danced garchomp at +2 failed to ohko even with stealth rock.timid lugia will struggle against rock polish groudon,drought abusing life orb ho-oh and dragon dance rayquaza.

 

[Quaily]

For the cm set I used different attacks -

standard spread
surf/hydro pump
aeroblast
roost
calm mind

water/flying is only resisted by dialga in ubers, the idea is that you have stab aeroblast as lugia's best attack, and in the rain surf is basically a stab attack as well. After a 1 calm mind lugia can 2hko taunt mewtwo almost every time with aeroblast, and 2hkos darkrai every time(not counting the higher crit rate). fortress can be 2hko with it, but only rarely if it is running careful/max spd. the thing that's kind of clunky about it is the things you want to hit with surf(ttar, groudon) both cancel out your rain. the set doesn't do well against groudon at all because of that, but tyranitar can be still be beaten with surf/hydro pump. It might work better with a more offensive spread, since lugia is fairly quick for ubers.

 

[mtr]

If a Lugia is using Aeroblast, it would work best as a "Cro" set where attacking is what you do after 6 Calm Minds, not to kill things. Something like Substitute / Roost / Calm Mind / Aeroblast. I guess the problem here is that it gets countered somewhat easily, like with Tyranitar, Roar Dialga, Cro-Ogre, Calm Mind Lati Twins, really anything resisting Flying that can phaze. So your team would have its work cut out for it.

More intriguing is a Pressure Stall set with Substitute / Roost / Roar or Toxic / Aeroblast, like Zapdos in OU. In a similar vein, Sacred Fire / Roost / Toxic / Light Screen or Substitute Ho-oh has also been essayed successfully.

 

[Banryu]

Has anyone ever tried like a Specs set on Lugia? It has one of the highest Uber speeds and a pretty decent specially offensive movepool, right? I wanted to try something like Aeroblast/Ice Beam/Earth Power/Thunder or something like that, maybe Trick is an option over EP / Thunder...

I'm actually really surprised no one has brought anything like that up, would such a set really be so terrible? :0 I can only assume that's why it hasn't been mentioned before.

 

[shrang]

It's Special Attack is still quite low for a Specs set. Yes, he has good speed, but he isn't going to be hitting very hard. If you run Timid (Which you should) 252 SpA, you reach 418 Special Attack with Specs equiped. To put this into context, Modest 252 SpA Kyogre reaches 438 Special Attack without Specs.

 

[tripe]

Has anyone ever tried like a Specs set on Lugia? It has one of the highest Uber speeds and a pretty decent specially offensive movepool, right? I wanted to try something like Aeroblast/Ice Beam/Earth Power/Thunder or something like that, maybe Trick is an option over EP / Thunder...

I'm actually really surprised no one has brought anything like that up, would such a set really be so terrible? :0 I can only assume that's why it hasn't been mentioned before.

Flying is considered subpar coverage at best, hitting nothing common for super effective. Pressure cuts your aeroblast down to 4 shots, and does jack shit to Tyranitar, one of Lugia's greatest counters. Even with earth power, it's a 3hko, and locking yourself into it is begging for Rayquaza to set up a dragon dance or 2. Thunder is asking for Groudon/Garchomp to set up and sweep. Ice beam is your only viable move option, as it offers good neutrality, but you only have 8 uses of it. If you're forced out, there goes 25% of Lugia's health, thanks to rocks. Lugia's main appeal is it's good bulk with speed, don't try and attack with it.