rip deerWyrdeer -> UR
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Resource SV PU Viability Rankings (Post-DLC1)
- Thread starter Aurist
- Start date
- Status
hi i'm gonna make a few noms since my time in scl is over
from A to S: best mon in the tier hands down, there's literally no drawback with having this on your team and even less reason not to use it. it checks a lot, and is the best progress maker the tier has to offer by a substantial margin with very little that can properly switch into it reliably. it wins 1v1 vs a big chunk of the tier handily and the most efficient way of checking it is having your own. if that's not S rank worthy i don't know what is.
from A to A+: yeah dark types are phenomenal right now, knock off + spin adds a ton of value and it does very well into both offense and bulkier teams with taunts sets. after mana cooked me with sash morpeko it grew on me pretty hard and i jumped on the hype train, it's also still one of our best forms of hazard control for more offensively oriented teams which are the best kind right now.
from A- to A+: yep another dark type, otr sets have become very prominent with scl and spiritomb has been one of the most threatening mons for a few weeks right now and i think its rank should show just that.
from A to A+: pretty much same reasoning as spiritomb, this mons crazy does well in ho and vs ho which is extremely valuable in this meta, both agility and otr sets are phenomenal.
from B+ to A: phenomenal pokemon with great sweeping potential, synthesis 3 atks sets have been taking the tier by storm in recent weeks and they've been very hard to stop, most of the time requiring luck to get past it. it's also pretty splashable and is a big part of the "bulkier" builds while also being a perfectly viable form of hazard control. people should use it more.
from UR to B/B+: this mons unranked but it's a good pokemon and there's a few replays that prove it, fits well on ho being a good priority user and a good tool against fat teams as well as being a spin blocker and a cc blocker which is super necessary on passimian grounds. combine all that with the fact that ghost dark is very hard to switch into (i/e spiritomb) and you get a good pokemon, it's still a bit frail but tendencies favor it right now and that should be reflected on the vr.
from A+ to A-: this bird fell from grace hard, it's in my opinion a bit too much of a jack of all trades master of none kind of mon and it makes it awkward to fit on teams in this meta where most mons fulfill very specific roles very well and swanna is outclassed at most of them. it doesn't do enough damage, it can't take hits well enough despite having a great set of resistances thanks to its typing and it just struggles to achieve anything properly outside of being a flip turn bot that doesn't force out a lot because of how little damage it does. i think this mon is no longer at the top of the metagame and its ranking should reflect that.
S to A+: not as prominent as i thought it would be, it struggles a lot vs meta trends like spiritomb and otr giraffe and the myriads of hos you see everywhere rn. it's still a very valuable mon with well rounded stats and definitely a top scarfer option, but idt it's dominant anymore.
from A+ to B+: same reasoning as swanna except zard struggles even more right now imo, the meta isn't kind to it at all and its stabs aren't spammable as they once used to be.
from B to A- and 
from A to B+: fast electric types are insanely good right now with whiscash being the only viable splashable ground, (screw camel this mon sucks don't use it) and while raichu-a's psychic stab might be appealing, reg raichu is better imo by virtue of providing teams with the electric immunity which is very hard to come by in this tier rn. it's also a very potent sweeper and a key part of some ho builds stopping volt-turn shenanigans with rotom and being able to 6-0 some fatter builds with tera fairy dkiss, while being a potent pivot and encore user itself making also valuable into opposing ho builds. there's not a lot of reasons to use raichu-a over raichu rn imo, but since raichu-a double stab and "fighting" resist is still nice on some teams i'm not going to drop it as much as i would've.
and that'll be it for now, i might as well do a team dump later today just tryna figure out if i have time to make whole descriptions of if i'll just share pastes and maybe a few anecdotes here and there. i'll just put it here while i'm at it and am going to thank ima and Vert for drafting me and allowing me to be part of the adventure, this tour was the most fun i had in mons probably ever ngl and also huge shoutout to fish anemometer for helping me throughout this season. thanks for being around and bouncing off ideas with me, and for keeping me sane throughout the season if you weren't there god knows what i would've ended up using. you were a key part of my "positive" campaign this year and i hope you get a chance to make a name for yourself on the big stage next year because you deserve it.
(if you wanna discuss vrs a bit tag me on pu disc)
from A to S: best mon in the tier hands down, there's literally no drawback with having this on your team and even less reason not to use it. it checks a lot, and is the best progress maker the tier has to offer by a substantial margin with very little that can properly switch into it reliably. it wins 1v1 vs a big chunk of the tier handily and the most efficient way of checking it is having your own. if that's not S rank worthy i don't know what is. from A to A+: yeah dark types are phenomenal right now, knock off + spin adds a ton of value and it does very well into both offense and bulkier teams with taunts sets. after mana cooked me with sash morpeko it grew on me pretty hard and i jumped on the hype train, it's also still one of our best forms of hazard control for more offensively oriented teams which are the best kind right now. from A- to A+: yep another dark type, otr sets have become very prominent with scl and spiritomb has been one of the most threatening mons for a few weeks right now and i think its rank should show just that. from A to A+: pretty much same reasoning as spiritomb, this mons crazy does well in ho and vs ho which is extremely valuable in this meta, both agility and otr sets are phenomenal. from B+ to A: phenomenal pokemon with great sweeping potential, synthesis 3 atks sets have been taking the tier by storm in recent weeks and they've been very hard to stop, most of the time requiring luck to get past it. it's also pretty splashable and is a big part of the "bulkier" builds while also being a perfectly viable form of hazard control. people should use it more. from UR to B/B+: this mons unranked but it's a good pokemon and there's a few replays that prove it, fits well on ho being a good priority user and a good tool against fat teams as well as being a spin blocker and a cc blocker which is super necessary on passimian grounds. combine all that with the fact that ghost dark is very hard to switch into (i/e spiritomb) and you get a good pokemon, it's still a bit frail but tendencies favor it right now and that should be reflected on the vr. from A+ to A-: this bird fell from grace hard, it's in my opinion a bit too much of a jack of all trades master of none kind of mon and it makes it awkward to fit on teams in this meta where most mons fulfill very specific roles very well and swanna is outclassed at most of them. it doesn't do enough damage, it can't take hits well enough despite having a great set of resistances thanks to its typing and it just struggles to achieve anything properly outside of being a flip turn bot that doesn't force out a lot because of how little damage it does. i think this mon is no longer at the top of the metagame and its ranking should reflect that. S to A+: not as prominent as i thought it would be, it struggles a lot vs meta trends like spiritomb and otr giraffe and the myriads of hos you see everywhere rn. it's still a very valuable mon with well rounded stats and definitely a top scarfer option, but idt it's dominant anymore. from A+ to B+: same reasoning as swanna except zard struggles even more right now imo, the meta isn't kind to it at all and its stabs aren't spammable as they once used to be. from B to A- and from A to B+: fast electric types are insanely good right now with whiscash being the only viable splashable ground, (screw camel this mon sucks don't use it) and while raichu-a's psychic stab might be appealing, reg raichu is better imo by virtue of providing teams with the electric immunity which is very hard to come by in this tier rn. it's also a very potent sweeper and a key part of some ho builds stopping volt-turn shenanigans with rotom and being able to 6-0 some fatter builds with tera fairy dkiss, while being a potent pivot and encore user itself making also valuable into opposing ho builds. there's not a lot of reasons to use raichu-a over raichu rn imo, but since raichu-a double stab and "fighting" resist is still nice on some teams i'm not going to drop it as much as i would've.and that'll be it for now, i might as well do a team dump later today just tryna figure out if i have time to make whole descriptions of if i'll just share pastes and maybe a few anecdotes here and there. i'll just put it here while i'm at it and am going to thank ima and Vert for drafting me and allowing me to be part of the adventure, this tour was the most fun i had in mons probably ever ngl and also huge shoutout to fish anemometer for helping me throughout this season. thanks for being around and bouncing off ideas with me, and for keeping me sane throughout the season if you weren't there god knows what i would've ended up using. you were a key part of my "positive" campaign this year and i hope you get a chance to make a name for yourself on the big stage next year because you deserve it.
(if you wanna discuss vrs a bit tag me on pu disc)
We have our latest update for the PU Viability Rankings! The changes are below:
NEW
[
]
Just a note, we will be hosting a mini-slate featuring the5 4 New pokemon next weekend, RIP Mesprit. This will be a quick vote, voted on by VR council members at the end of next week.
Now onto the real changes.
Rises
Morpeko A -> A+
Sneasel-Hisui A -> A+
Skuntank A -> A+
Spiritomb A- -> A+
Avalugg-Hisui B -> A-
Lurantis B+ -> A-
Veluza B- -> A-
Raichu B -> B+
Banette UR -> B
Rotom-Fan UR -> C
Drops
Passimian S -> A+
Swanna A+ -> A
Charizard A+ -> A-
Weezing A -> A-
Appletun A -> B+
Tauros-Paldea-Combat A -> B+
Masquerain B+ -> B
Victreebel A -> B
Ludicolo B+ -> B-
Leafeon B -> C+
Golduck B+ -> C
Glimmet C-> UR
Leavanny C -> UR
Sawsbuck C-> UR
Here are the votes by the council.
NEW
]Just a note, we will be hosting a mini-slate featuring the
Now onto the real changes.
Rises
Morpeko A -> A+ Sneasel-Hisui A -> A+ Skuntank A -> A+ Spiritomb A- -> A+ Avalugg-Hisui B -> A- Lurantis B+ -> A- Veluza B- -> A- Raichu B -> B+ Banette UR -> B Rotom-Fan UR -> CDrops
Passimian S -> A+ Swanna A+ -> A Charizard A+ -> A- Weezing A -> A- Appletun A -> B+ Tauros-Paldea-Combat A -> B+ Masquerain B+ -> B Victreebel A -> B Ludicolo B+ -> B- Leafeon B -> C+ Golduck B+ -> C Glimmet C-> UR Leavanny C -> UR Sawsbuck C-> URHere are the votes by the council.
Last edited:
wooo 3 posts in a row
The VR council has voted on the 4 drops to PU and we have our results!
Eelektross -> A+
Floatzel -> A
Froslass -> A-
Palossand -> A
This will be our last VR vote for a little while as we are expecting major shifts that completely change the meta in January. See you soon!
The votes can be found here:
The VR council has voted on the 4 drops to PU and we have our results!
Eelektross -> A+ Floatzel -> A Froslass -> A- Palossand -> AThis will be our last VR vote for a little while as we are expecting major shifts that completely change the meta in January. See you soon!
The votes can be found here:
Decided to throw in my opinions regarding my own team
- B
The moment I saw my Unite Main on my most frequent tier, I knew I had to have it on my team. Overall, it's been a good team member, dishing out powerful surfs or hurricanes. Gulp Missile is just such a good ability, especially when the Mant fishes up a
. There is a lot of luck involved, and there it is quite frail, however, so for these reasons I can't justify putting it in A and above.
- C-
I've been confused by how many people seem to rank The Lugg(TM)'s hisuian cousin quite highly. Clearly I'm the problem, but it still gets one shot by any special move above 50 base power. I'm currently using it as a rapid spinner/stealth rocker, and in this regard it's been doing decently. It can hit hard back, but with its frail special defense and slow speed, this is unlikely to happen.
- A+
My Appletun is my personal favorite member of the team, and one of my most useful. With its good HP stat and thick fat, it is a great special tank. Made even better with the assault vest. Yes, assault vest means no recover, but with how little damage the mons I send it out against do, Giga Drain does the job. With assault vest and thick fat, it easily tanks fire type moves and even the would-be 4x ice moves. Apple Acid is amazing, with its decent power and guaranteed special defense drop, and can make Appletun a great attacker as well as a tank. I love my boy so much.
I dream of it getting contrary everyday...contrary leaf storms and draco meteors...
- S
Skuntank is a must have for every team, and is in my opinion the best sweep stopper in the format. It is not just fairly bulky, but hits hard. It comes with haze, knock off, and sucker punch. All of these moves are crucial in stopping sweepers. Poison Jab makes for good stab, and if you can deal with the accuracy, Gunk Shot is also a good option. It is especially good at stopping, one of the formats most devastating sweepers at the moment.
- A+
On the topic of Lurantis: Lurantis! Discount
is perhaps the best PU's got when it comes to sweepers. A great mixed attacker with superpower and leaf storm, meaning that "one stat only" tanks like and can't wall it. Lurantis is thriving in a format without unaware (Well...besides 
), and it comes with amazing utility moves like synthesis, knock off, and defog. Truly a devastating sweeper that is only walled by the previously mentioned . Not to say it can't be dealt with without it.
- A
An amazing bulky sweeper with tons of HP and special attack. It's powerful enough to only really need one calm mind to deal damage (At least in my experience), and STAB Hyper Voice is a good counter to the few substitute setters. Good stab along with dazzling gleam for dark and fighting types (Fighting if you use tera Normal like me) make it a mon you can just slap on really any team. It's ability also prevents from sucker punching it to death.
Again, this is all from my experience, and I'm not even that good at competitive admittedly, so I don't have the insights of a "pro" player
- BThe moment I saw my Unite Main on my most frequent tier, I knew I had to have it on my team. Overall, it's been a good team member, dishing out powerful surfs or hurricanes. Gulp Missile is just such a good ability, especially when the Mant fishes up a
. There is a lot of luck involved, and there it is quite frail, however, so for these reasons I can't justify putting it in A and above. - C-I've been confused by how many people seem to rank The Lugg(TM)'s hisuian cousin quite highly. Clearly I'm the problem, but it still gets one shot by any special move above 50 base power. I'm currently using it as a rapid spinner/stealth rocker, and in this regard it's been doing decently. It can hit hard back, but with its frail special defense and slow speed, this is unlikely to happen.
- A+My Appletun is my personal favorite member of the team, and one of my most useful. With its good HP stat and thick fat, it is a great special tank. Made even better with the assault vest. Yes, assault vest means no recover, but with how little damage the mons I send it out against do, Giga Drain does the job. With assault vest and thick fat, it easily tanks fire type moves and even the would-be 4x ice moves. Apple Acid is amazing, with its decent power and guaranteed special defense drop, and can make Appletun a great attacker as well as a tank. I love my boy so much.
I dream of it getting contrary everyday...contrary leaf storms and draco meteors...
- SSkuntank is a must have for every team, and is in my opinion the best sweep stopper in the format. It is not just fairly bulky, but hits hard. It comes with haze, knock off, and sucker punch. All of these moves are crucial in stopping sweepers. Poison Jab makes for good stab, and if you can deal with the accuracy, Gunk Shot is also a good option. It is especially good at stopping
, one of the formats most devastating sweepers at the moment. - A+On the topic of Lurantis: Lurantis! Discount
is perhaps the best PU's got when it comes to sweepers. A great mixed attacker with superpower and leaf storm, meaning that "one stat only" tanks like and can't wall it. Lurantis is thriving in a format without unaware (Well...besides ), and it comes with amazing utility moves like synthesis, knock off, and defog. Truly a devastating sweeper that is only walled by the previously mentioned . Not to say it can't be dealt with without it. - AAn amazing bulky sweeper with tons of HP and special attack. It's powerful enough to only really need one calm mind to deal damage (At least in my experience), and STAB Hyper Voice is a good counter to the few substitute setters. Good stab along with dazzling gleam for dark and fighting types (Fighting if you use tera Normal like me) make it a mon you can just slap on really any team. It's ability also prevents
from sucker punching it to death.Again, this is all from my experience, and I'm not even that good at competitive admittedly, so I don't have the insights of a "pro" player
Yeah, Avalugg does that. It definitely takes a bit of experience with it to use avalugg to its full potential. Usually, and avalugg facing a special attacker will just switch out into like Articuno or some other special wall, meaning that with positioning it only really has to deal with physical attackers.
I've been confused by how many people seem to rank The Lugg(TM)'s hisuian cousin quite highly. Clearly I'm the problem, but it still gets one shot by any special move above 50 base power. I'm currently using it as a rapid spinner/stealth rocker, and in this regard it's been doing decently. It can hit hard back, but with its frail special defense and slow speed, this is unlikely to happen.
Avalugg is probably A- for its potential as a suicide lead and/or defensive wall with spin + rocks. On HO builds with Veluza, it’s been effective at getting up hazards and keeping the enemy’s off, especially with Tera ghost. Additionally, Avalugg’s high attack and rapid spin means a physical threat usually can’t break through Avalugg without dying or losing a lot of HP. If that physical threat switches out, whatever comes in has to be able to eat an earthquake, body press, or mountain gale and still outspeed if it’s clicked rapid spin enough times, or live another hit.
hi, vr council is planning to make a final vr update before the metagame gets immensely shaked up again, so here are some noms. also don't think we announced it here oops, but Morge and plznostep have been added to our vr team, welcome both!!
new -> s
this feels pretty self explanatory to me, p2 offers a lot in the builder and its arrival has greatly reshaped the tier. offensive sets in particular are amazing, with the bulk to switch into half of the tier and the coverage to beat almost everything. it generally feels like a pretty free addition to most teams as it doesn't struggle into much; it'll pretty much always do something. defensive sets are great, but what makes it s-rank to me is how good it is offensively so i view defensive sets as a bonus more than anything. it has multiple tera options as well, which just adds to how versatile it is
new -> a+
rhydon is a trading machine, and it'll make a ton of progress almost every game. nothing really counters it, and it gets so many opportunities to come in and do stuff. it can feel a bit awkward to build with due to its typing being pretty annoying at times, but i think it gets much better when u use it as a tank rather than a wall. this is the only other nfe that has had a significant impact on the metagame, and it's on par with passimian etc to me
new -> a-
i've been pleasantly surprised by combusken as a late game cleaner with swords dance. it has the means to beat most of the metagame between its decent bulk with eviolite and different tera options, and setup isnt that difficult with how its typing advantages it against a lot of the tier. answers do exist, and u might have to bait a tera first, but these answers can be put in range without a ton of difficulty. also wouldn't really be mad if it ended in b+
this is all for new additions i think are worth really talking about, so for the rest i'll just be quickly going through the vr. i think most ranks need cleaning up, as we now have a more settled metagame
a+ -> a-
might be a little biased, don't think this has been a+ since october metagame and i think its lack of significant puwc usage reflects that. also doesn't appreciate the new nfes
a+ -> a
still good but feels more and more awkward to use and fit on teams as the meta goes on
a+ -> a-
not bad, but now we have one more ground and hex sets have been pretty underwhelming. i feel like it was mostly ranked so highly cuz of its potential, but it hasn't really lived up to it
a+ -> a
this took a hit with standard ho not being as good anymore
a -> a-
don't think much has changed for it at all, but i think a is just overselling it
a -> a+
it always does a ton unless u run into poliwrath. very scary in the builder as well
a -> a+
our best blanket physdef wall currently, tera poison in particular is great
a -> a-
we've gotten 2 grounds + p2 since we ranked this in a, and its speed tier is just not as impressive anymore with the uptick in sneasel usage
a -> a-
pains me to say but this thing has seen better days. pretty decent, just not as good and i'd consider cramorant to be better currently
a- -> b+
with ho usage taking a hit, and it no longer being the best dedicated lead, havalugg should drop accordingly. physdef is still good and surprisingly threatening, but it's not worth of being a- by itself
a- -> b+
went from borderline broken for 5 months to above average in the span of a month. it doesn't really steal games like it used to, and the meta continues to be unkind to it following rhydon and p2's additions
a- -> a
our best removal option rn following palossand's introduction to the tier, and gulp missile continues to be annoying
a- -> b
palossand does most of what it does better, and fluffy + ghost typing is less relevant now as our 2 main physical attackers in skuntank and rhydon don't care at all
a- -> b
this hasn't been a very good option since october metagame, and it's once again a pokemon that hates palossand and how common knock off is
a- -> b+
np can do stuff at times but it's not consistent enough. its damage output is not good in a metagame that is increasingly bulky
a- -> a
this tier lacks good ice resists, and triple axel makes a huge difference for it as it can now do real damage. don't use sd though, that set is bad
a- -> b+
mixed sets aren't bad, it just lacks damage output and we have better breakers. 350 is no longer a coveted speed tier as well
b+ -> b-
this still sorta kinda has a place in the tier, but floatzel's arrival is enough to push it from "good but not great" to "niche but not bad"
b+ -> b-
same as above, but replace floatzel with rhydon
b+ -> b
this can still work as a semi-reliable p2 answer but it dislikes most of the rest of the metagame
b -> b+
sorry that was a lot of red, but for some positivity, crab really appreciates recent trends and is now a great breaker again. as always, it's not very easy to build with, but it's threatening enough to warrant a small bump
b -> c
i've TRIED to give electrode a proper chance multiple times cuz i loved it in earlier metagames, but its damage output is miserable and it's never been more reliant on tera
b -> c
i don't really see a reason to ever consider this thing to be honest, as it's a terrible spinner and now has competition from p2 as a bulky normal. c is generous
b -> b-
don't remember the last time this has shown up in a game and then did something. on paper it's not terrible though, so it can stay somewhere in the b-ranks
b -> b-
not very good, but prankster is annoying enough sometimes that i think it deserves to be higher than c
b -> c
don't feel like doing ctrl+f porygon2 to see how many times i've mentioned it in this post alone. but yeah, porygon2 and knock off being everywhere. maybe flame orb can be cute idk
b -> ur
what does this do..? i'd rather use illumise with weather being irrelevant now
b- -> ur
i'm not sure i get why this should ever get added to a team, its defensive profile isnt interesting anymore and it lets so many threats in for free
b- -> c
this barely makes a difference really, but i consider b- the limit as far as genuinely viable pokemon go. any mons below (c) are so niche that u usually have to build with them to justify, or they fit on very specific builds
c+ -> ur
we have rhydon and palossand now, and it's just not a scary pokemon at all
c+ -> c
i don't think c+ needs to be a rank for these two, and they fit well enough with the rest of c anyway
c -> ur
i can't think of a single niche for these. hattrem was fine with weather around, alolan golem could be ok when we didn't have real grounds, and magcargo just doesnt do anything well that something else doesn't do
this feels pretty self explanatory to me, p2 offers a lot in the builder and its arrival has greatly reshaped the tier. offensive sets in particular are amazing, with the bulk to switch into half of the tier and the coverage to beat almost everything. it generally feels like a pretty free addition to most teams as it doesn't struggle into much; it'll pretty much always do something. defensive sets are great, but what makes it s-rank to me is how good it is offensively so i view defensive sets as a bonus more than anything. it has multiple tera options as well, which just adds to how versatile it is
rhydon is a trading machine, and it'll make a ton of progress almost every game. nothing really counters it, and it gets so many opportunities to come in and do stuff. it can feel a bit awkward to build with due to its typing being pretty annoying at times, but i think it gets much better when u use it as a tank rather than a wall. this is the only other nfe that has had a significant impact on the metagame, and it's on par with passimian etc to me
i've been pleasantly surprised by combusken as a late game cleaner with swords dance. it has the means to beat most of the metagame between its decent bulk with eviolite and different tera options, and setup isnt that difficult with how its typing advantages it against a lot of the tier. answers do exist, and u might have to bait a tera first, but these answers can be put in range without a ton of difficulty. also wouldn't really be mad if it ended in b+
this is all for new additions i think are worth really talking about, so for the rest i'll just be quickly going through the vr. i think most ranks need cleaning up, as we now have a more settled metagame
a+ -> a-might be a little biased, don't think this has been a+ since october metagame and i think its lack of significant puwc usage reflects that. also doesn't appreciate the new nfes
a+ -> astill good but feels more and more awkward to use and fit on teams as the meta goes on
a+ -> a-not bad, but now we have one more ground and hex sets have been pretty underwhelming. i feel like it was mostly ranked so highly cuz of its potential, but it hasn't really lived up to it
a+ -> athis took a hit with standard ho not being as good anymore
a -> a-don't think much has changed for it at all, but i think a is just overselling it
a -> a+it always does a ton unless u run into poliwrath. very scary in the builder as well
a -> a+our best blanket physdef wall currently, tera poison in particular is great
a -> a-we've gotten 2 grounds + p2 since we ranked this in a, and its speed tier is just not as impressive anymore with the uptick in sneasel usage
a -> a-pains me to say but this thing has seen better days. pretty decent, just not as good and i'd consider cramorant to be better currently
a- -> b+with ho usage taking a hit, and it no longer being the best dedicated lead, havalugg should drop accordingly. physdef is still good and surprisingly threatening, but it's not worth of being a- by itself
a- -> b+went from borderline broken for 5 months to above average in the span of a month. it doesn't really steal games like it used to, and the meta continues to be unkind to it following rhydon and p2's additions
a- -> aour best removal option rn following palossand's introduction to the tier, and gulp missile continues to be annoying
a- -> bpalossand does most of what it does better, and fluffy + ghost typing is less relevant now as our 2 main physical attackers in skuntank and rhydon don't care at all
a- -> bthis hasn't been a very good option since october metagame, and it's once again a pokemon that hates palossand and how common knock off is
a- -> b+np can do stuff at times but it's not consistent enough. its damage output is not good in a metagame that is increasingly bulky
a- -> athis tier lacks good ice resists, and triple axel makes a huge difference for it as it can now do real damage. don't use sd though, that set is bad
a- -> b+mixed sets aren't bad, it just lacks damage output and we have better breakers. 350 is no longer a coveted speed tier as well
b+ -> b-this still sorta kinda has a place in the tier, but floatzel's arrival is enough to push it from "good but not great" to "niche but not bad"
b+ -> b-same as above, but replace floatzel with rhydon
b+ -> b this can still work as a semi-reliable p2 answer but it dislikes most of the rest of the metagame
b -> b+sorry that was a lot of red, but for some positivity, crab really appreciates recent trends and is now a great breaker again. as always, it's not very easy to build with, but it's threatening enough to warrant a small bump
b -> ci've TRIED to give electrode a proper chance multiple times cuz i loved it in earlier metagames, but its damage output is miserable and it's never been more reliant on tera
b -> ci don't really see a reason to ever consider this thing to be honest, as it's a terrible spinner and now has competition from p2 as a bulky normal. c is generous
b -> b-don't remember the last time this has shown up in a game and then did something. on paper it's not terrible though, so it can stay somewhere in the b-ranks
b -> b-not very good, but prankster is annoying enough sometimes that i think it deserves to be higher than c
b -> cdon't feel like doing ctrl+f porygon2 to see how many times i've mentioned it in this post alone. but yeah, porygon2 and knock off being everywhere. maybe flame orb can be cute idk
b -> urwhat does this do..? i'd rather use illumise with weather being irrelevant now
b- -> uri'm not sure i get why this should ever get added to a team, its defensive profile isnt interesting anymore and it lets so many threats in for free
b- -> cthis barely makes a difference really, but i consider b- the limit as far as genuinely viable pokemon go. any mons below (c) are so niche that u usually have to build with them to justify, or they fit on very specific builds
c+ -> urwe have rhydon and palossand now, and it's just not a scary pokemon at all
c+ -> ci don't think c+ needs to be a rank for these two, and they fit well enough with the rest of c anyway
c -> uri can't think of a single niche for these. hattrem was fine with weather around, alolan golem could be ok when we didn't have real grounds, and magcargo just doesnt do anything well that something else doesn't do
I haven't used these since since October, but if I don't get a chance to touch them before the VR update, I still wanted to present a case for them. I agree that there is no world where you use either of these for their defensive merits since other mons are so much better defensively. However, these two are good on trick room, especially Carbink. If you are commiting to a full trick room team, Carbink is amazing role compression as it gets hazards, trick room, and misty explosion. Hattrem is less viable than Carbink, but it has the niche of magic bounce + Hwish. A- -> AThis mon, however, I have used since October. I find all of its traits really useful in a lot of situations. It's a mixed attacker, counts as a fighting type, has recovery and removal, is a defog deterrent, and just enough bulk to survive a hit and start stacking contrary boosts. I suck at picking mons to tera, so having Lurantis as a good tera option is nice too. I did say it has just enough bulk, but its biggest weakness is that it has just enough bulk. Lurantis would be barely viable if it had any less bulk, which I think is the only thing (other than poison types) keeping it and its amazing set of traits from A+.
Guess I might as well throw in some noms before the end of the meta
A- -> B+
Frostom is…. weird. On paper it should be really good because it has stab bolt beam!!! And we have real grounds now to actually want to hit with that coverage, but in practice it feels pretty disappointing. Being so reliant on blizzard makes it kinda inconsistent because blizzard sucks and the speed tier is pretty mid so it’s somewhat difficult to justify over the other the other electrics who are either much faster or have better defensive utility and don’t really struggle much more with the grounds anyway. Idk, I might just be biased and it’s still scary but I don’t think it’s consistent enough to justify A-.
B+ -> UR
Gum's post already mentioned golem but I think B- is being too generous. I see 0 reason to run golem when rhydon exists, rhydon is wayyy bulkier, hits harder, has a better movepool and volt immunity post Tera, while golem has… 5 points of speed that don't actually matter for anything, sturdy and explosion. Which is really only useful if you wanna use it as a suicide lead but like why are you running that over avalugg. Maybe there's some super crazy golem tech that I'm missing but this just seems outclassed in every aspect (You'd never want to run both rhydon and golem either).
A- -> A
Without chansey in the tier Tera dragon clawitzer kinda has just 0 switchins, max spdf porygon2 is like the only thing that dodges a 2hko from it and even then just barely and it nearly always gets 2hkod after rocks. It’s still kinda slow and has mid bulk but with just how impossible it is to switch into without Tera and the reduced prominence of HO and increase in balance teams I think claw deserves a raise.
B- -> C
When do you even actually want to run scovillain on a team. Very rarely is the answer. Self setting sun sets are still potentially good cleaners but idk, it’s so frail and hard to justify actually running over other cleaners. This is the kinda mon that technically works but you don’t actually ever want to use it.
A- -> B+Frostom is…. weird. On paper it should be really good because it has stab bolt beam!!! And we have real grounds now to actually want to hit with that coverage, but in practice it feels pretty disappointing. Being so reliant on blizzard makes it kinda inconsistent because blizzard sucks and the speed tier is pretty mid so it’s somewhat difficult to justify over the other the other electrics who are either much faster or have better defensive utility and don’t really struggle much more with the grounds anyway. Idk, I might just be biased and it’s still scary but I don’t think it’s consistent enough to justify A-.
B+ -> URGum's post already mentioned golem but I think B- is being too generous. I see 0 reason to run golem when rhydon exists, rhydon is wayyy bulkier, hits harder, has a better movepool and volt immunity post Tera, while golem has… 5 points of speed that don't actually matter for anything, sturdy and explosion. Which is really only useful if you wanna use it as a suicide lead but like why are you running that over avalugg. Maybe there's some super crazy golem tech that I'm missing but this just seems outclassed in every aspect (You'd never want to run both rhydon and golem either).
A- -> AWithout chansey in the tier Tera dragon clawitzer kinda has just 0 switchins, max spdf porygon2 is like the only thing that dodges a 2hko from it and even then just barely and it nearly always gets 2hkod after rocks. It’s still kinda slow and has mid bulk but with just how impossible it is to switch into without Tera and the reduced prominence of HO and increase in balance teams I think claw deserves a raise.
B- -> CWhen do you even actually want to run scovillain on a team. Very rarely is the answer. Self setting sun sets are still potentially good cleaners but idk, it’s so frail and hard to justify actually running over other cleaners. This is the kinda mon that technically works but you don’t actually ever want to use it.
hey i am nomming i want to nom some mons that don't really matter + bored
UR --> B
No longer outclassed by other Ice-types like Abomasnow and able to differentiate itself from Rotom-Frost through consistent Ice STAB, Freeze Dry and even higher special attack stat. Ice STAB is amazing right now as Ice resists are scarce making Glaceon quite a good wallbreaker at the moment, synergizing very well with Pokemon like Passimian who commonly bait in Palossand while also appreciating the additional slow pivots the meta has at the moment like Eelektross. These traits make it deserving on a placement on the VR in my personal opinion.
New (LOL) --> B-/B
So like in terms of decently fast Psychic-types, you have this, Medicham, or you have Raichu-Alola. Indeedee-F isn't that great but its serviceable and acts as sort of a budget Indeedee-M which means a lot of its prior traits you'll find here, just Indeedee-F is a bit slower which is notable for stuff like Rotom and doesn't hit as hard but Trick still means it can be a bit of a pain for special walls to deal with. It also still has Healing Wish which feels nice for HO structures although these kinds of structures have taken a bit of a hit recently.
A- --> B+
Okay so like Naclstack is a cool mon but i'm not sure if its just me, but it feels like its difficult to fit on a lot of teams in this meta while also kinda just not answering much. It used to check lots of Fire-types but they haven't been doing so well lately so its not as useful for that and when you look at a lot of the A- to A+ Pokemon, most of them have favourable matchups into Naclstack, such as Palossand and Arboliva and a large majority of these Pokemon carry Knock Off which is a big deal for Naclstack as it loses a lot of its bulk when trying to switch into them.
UR --> BNo longer outclassed by other Ice-types like Abomasnow and able to differentiate itself from Rotom-Frost through consistent Ice STAB, Freeze Dry and even higher special attack stat. Ice STAB is amazing right now as Ice resists are scarce making Glaceon quite a good wallbreaker at the moment, synergizing very well with Pokemon like Passimian who commonly bait in Palossand while also appreciating the additional slow pivots the meta has at the moment like Eelektross. These traits make it deserving on a placement on the VR in my personal opinion.
New (LOL) --> B-/BSo like in terms of decently fast Psychic-types, you have this, Medicham, or you have Raichu-Alola. Indeedee-F isn't that great but its serviceable and acts as sort of a budget Indeedee-M which means a lot of its prior traits you'll find here, just Indeedee-F is a bit slower which is notable for stuff like Rotom and doesn't hit as hard but Trick still means it can be a bit of a pain for special walls to deal with. It also still has Healing Wish which feels nice for HO structures although these kinds of structures have taken a bit of a hit recently.
A- --> B+Okay so like Naclstack is a cool mon but i'm not sure if its just me, but it feels like its difficult to fit on a lot of teams in this meta while also kinda just not answering much. It used to check lots of Fire-types but they haven't been doing so well lately so its not as useful for that and when you look at a lot of the A- to A+ Pokemon, most of them have favourable matchups into Naclstack, such as Palossand and Arboliva and a large majority of these Pokemon carry Knock Off which is a big deal for Naclstack as it loses a lot of its bulk when trying to switch into them.
Last edited:
final update of the year & the meta!! sorry i dont feel like making this pretty
NEW -> S
NEW -> A
NEW -> B+
UR -> B
UR -> B-
A+ -> A
A+ -> A
A+ -> A
A+ -> A-
A -> A-
A -> A-
A -> A-
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B
B+ -> B
B+ -> B-
B+ -> C
B -> B-
B -> B-
B -> C
B -> C
B- -> C
B- -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
B -> UR
B -> UR
B- -> UR
C+ -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
A+ -> S
A - > A+
A -> A+
A- -> A
A- -> A
A- -> A
A- -> A
B -> B+
a lot of this update was cleaning up the vr now that the meta is in a more settled state, and here is a link to anyone interested in seeing what each member voted. the op will be updated shortly, and i'll soon be archiving this version of the vr. if you have any questions feel free to reach out to me on discord, happy new year!!
NEW -> S NEW -> A NEW -> B+ UR -> B UR -> B- A+ -> A A+ -> A A+ -> A A+ -> A- A -> A- A -> A- A -> A- A- -> B+ A- -> B+ A- -> B+ A- -> B+ A- -> B+ A- -> B B+ -> B B+ -> B- B+ -> C B -> B- B -> B- B -> C B -> C B- -> C B- -> C C+ -> C C+ -> C B -> UR B -> UR B- -> UR C+ -> UR C -> UR C -> UR C -> UR A+ -> S A - > A+ A -> A+ A- -> A A- -> A A- -> A A- -> A B -> B+a lot of this update was cleaning up the vr now that the meta is in a more settled state, and here is a link to anyone interested in seeing what each member voted. the op will be updated shortly, and i'll soon be archiving this version of the vr. if you have any questions feel free to reach out to me on discord, happy new year!!
- Status