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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Hold on there brother think! what if you rise to mid ladder
You must Bring a raging goat and only replace a single gimmicker for good measure or dondozo in the back makes complete and utter lightwork of this
unless thats too skilled for your liking, just fly a red plane into the opponents team and hope stuff blows up like you’re attending a screening of the next fast and furious movie
Okay I know this has probably been posted a fair few times but I am genuinely just confused. Why is Kingambit allowed to just, be like that? It's just so good and you can just, hold tera and win because you can't like, know what move to hit it with as 50/50's your team no matter the gap? Like I don't think it's comically overpowered like the many now ubers mons but like I don't know the 50/50 machine is kind of just, super lame?
We suspect tested it and voted no ban, there's plenty of counterplay, its not actually a "50/50 machine"
That suspect was before both dlc's wasn't it? And I know there is literally counter-play but it makes teambuilding feel really restricting imo. As well as just, kind of losing if your check to it has to fight the other 50 insane physical attackers running around right now and then it at the end.
a couple of reasons:
1: the meta's kinda built around it with stuff like encore, willowisp, rocky helmet, phasing, and substitute being on a lot of stuff. it's not just kingambit either, they're just fantastic anti-bullshit options in general and have use for other threats
2: having a sweeper that has to rely on winning 50/50s (even if the odds are stacked in its favor) isn't ideal
3: it's a massive tera hog
4: it's surprisingly play-aroundable bc it relies heavily on sucker and it's often the last or 2nd to last mon out meaning that you can usually are able to and can afford to sack a mon or 2 to weaken it
5: it can't do everything at once with its set or tera type: any tera that's not dark means it won't be beating dozo, any tera besides ghost doesn't beat fast iron defense metal birds, and you kinda want a defensive tera type that doesn't leave u weak to fairy/fighting/dark. Its set is usually pretty set in stone but w/o low kick it can't beat opposing gambit
overall it's still pretty bullshit and I would prob still vote ban just because it's so unfun to deal with but it's not unbeatable
It's bullshit, but it's not extreme bullshit.
As stated above, counterplay is quite diverse which means that gambit struggles a lot more. Against slower teams or teams that don't properly account for it, that's where gambit shines, and even against slower teams, they have ways to play around it.
Another reason is that a lot of top mons do counter it, tusk, Zama and valiant all are amazing counters to it and while it can potentially beat them, it has to use a defensive tera (which makes it easier for other things to deal with it) and make sure it isn't chipped down. Any mon with a status move can also win, sure it's a 50/50, but a lot of status moves cripple gambit in some way, so it truly is a 50/50.
Tldr, gambit is bs, and do want it banned, but it's manageable.
It literally is Mr. 50/50. Of course theres counterplay but every game that its a part of, it creates 50-50 situations caused by sucker punch mind games.
A majority of people did want to ban it at 55%, but it didnt reach the 60% ban threshold just like Kyurem.
i personally believe that it's not as easy to justify a kingambit ban when the meta has adapted very nicely to exploiting it, particularly by punishing kingambit for its reliance on sucker punch mindgames (i.e. encore, will-o-wisp, substitute, faster setup, etc.). also helps that a lot of commonly used pokemon like great tusk, landorus-T and zamazenta can check kingambit quite nicely, and it gets hard countered by the metal birds and dondozo
Until it gets flinched by iron head multiple times and you die regardless.
I do agree that dondozo counters it, but I have too many times been flinched killed by gambit when using dozo to not mention this.
I know it's not a very intellectual point to say "yeah but I don't wanna use dondozo" but on god dondozo just creates negative serotonin in my brain
Try sweeping with dozo, now that's serotonin in your brain. They can't do any damage to the big dumb fish, and you just keep cursing up.
Unfortunately specs raging bolt is the funniest pokemon on the planet
The statistics and evidenced-based medicine nerd is going to show here, and it's def off-topic, but the serotonin hypothesis of depression has been disproved and discredited by the evidenced-based medicine community for a while now, since there has been practically no good evidence linking serotonin levels to depression.
The metal birds can be screwed over by tera ghost kingambit if they only run body press though.
My take is that first of all, the meta is kind of adapted to Kingambit already. Many common mons can check Kingambit well, such as zamazenta, great tusk, and the metal birds, and other mons really annoy it like Waterpon with encore and Dragapult if it carries will-o-wisp and Kingambit doesn't have a lum berry (or you don't get haxed). Second of all, Kingambit can't really get everything it wants, with tera, evs and items. Max speed max attack low kick is nice to at least know it's 50/50 vs. other Kingambit, but at the same time it isn't as good as a bulky dark resist anymore. Especially the item and tera type to me is what restricts Kingambit. Gambit wants balloon, so it can setup on great tusk without tera, but it also wants lum berry, to not get afflicted by status, but it also wants tera dark black glasses, to break more easily, or a defensive tera, or even tera ghost. Overall this set diversity makes Kingambit very versatile and yes scary since its set and tera can screw you over sometimes (sometimes feels like volc lmao) but it also means Kingambit can't do anything at once. It can't have insane damage output with Tera Dark black glasses and be a bulky ghost resist/wincon at the same time. That's what I think holds Kingambit from being banned.
1. Gambit is tankier than Bisharp it takes un boosted eq from dnite and moon and goes with Iron head if u are +2 not a mind game
2. It is not in ur opponents favor if u are last mon gambit and they have to outplay 8 sucker to win game. That's a 12.5% chance....?
3. U can wisp w pult but what if ur other mons alive lost gambit anyw gambit sds on pult
4. Seen encore rarely on samu h but most common one is valiant and its 4x resist aucker so that's irrelevant
Just ban already... only thing sad abt banning is goodbye my easy ghold slowing pult check
2. It is not in ur opponents favor if u are last mon gambit and they have to outplay 8 sucker to win game. That's a 12.5% chance....?
3. U can wisp w pult but what if ur other mons alive lost gambit anyw gambit sds on pult
4. Seen encore rarely on samu h but most common one is valiant and its 4x resist aucker so that's irrelevant
Just ban already... only thing sad abt banning is goodbye my easy ghold slowing pult check
Seriously maybe its cuz im mainly an offense/balance player and can notice minmaxxing with big fat walls mainly instead of some offensive pokemon(Not saying there arent minmaxxed offensive mons, looking at you moon, mane, etc) but God dondozo is the definition of a minmaxxed wall, 150 hp + 115 def is almost blissey levels and especially when it has an actual attack stat of 100 and can rest off status, not to mean its typing means only grass and electric is doing supereffective(although to be fair hit it with like maybe 3 special attacks at most and its gone)
Have u tried spdef dondozo I saw an rmt with spdef dondozo running curse
I feel like spdefzo just... stops being an answer to rm and gambit (which it was already shaky against for tera dark glasses or tera flying taunt) and loses mus into pokemon its supposed to physically check in order to become a pokemon that holds its own against... gholdengo (maybe), ival (until its physical anyway), and volcarona until it pulls out the grass move.
Normal dozo can do well into volc as long as it doesn't have a grass move. I won a game with dozo against a volc despite having to sack my Blissey to a Darkrai. It just could not deal enough damage to deal with it and they forfeited.
Sp.defense dozo is more of a bait. It could work, but you are giving up one of the best physical walling mons for a subpar special walling mon. I would avoid it unless you are really amazing at building stall or balance teams.
Dugtrio lost access to High Horsepower in Gen 9 which is the weirdest decision Game Freak has done
Razor Shell's Japanese name is Shell Blade, which explains why it makes contact. All "blade" moves make contact (Leaf Blade, Solar Blade, Behemoth Blade)
most people who are good at building stall would recognize that it would be better to throw clodsire on the team instead
can't say what balance uses but I think there's rarely a situation where spdef dozo is your best option
Dugtrio has EQ why are we considering High Horsepower
Someone was talking about using Dugtrio instead of Wugtrio lol you gotta scroll up